How to Grow a Three Sisters Garden (2016)

https://www.nativeseeds.org/blogs/blog-news/how-to-grow-a-three-sisters-garden

by vinnyglennon • 3 years ago

123 56 3 years ago

Would the site not be better named usanativeseeds.org? nativeseeds.org without referring to a specific nation means basically nothing

indrora• 3 years ago

In the Anglosphere, 'Native' generally refers to the US Native Peoples, particularly in the central-south Americas, extending up to around the Canadian border.

unmole2• 3 years ago

In the Anglosphere, 'Native' generally refers to the US Native Peoples

Yeah, no. That might be true of North America but that's definitely not the case in the rest of the Anglosphere.

julianeon• 3 years ago

It took me a while to understand this comment but I think I know what you're saying now - and I think it's wrong. Background: I have a Bio degree, briefly worked in conservation, and for context am also married to a woman with Native ancestry.

The article uses Native in the sense in which you're using it, so I presume you mean that the use of the term 'native seeds' in the URL is misleading. But by long custom, "native plants" is an expression that has been used for many years, which Native peoples don't take exception to.

See for example this link to the California Native Plants Society, one of thousands like it.

https://www.cnps.org/gardening

I'd also like to point out that "native plants" and "Native peoples" are both harkening back to the same definition of "native" - as the first to be there, the original inhabitants in a sense. That is what "native seeds" is referring to, in the context of plants. There is nothing to object to here - both uses are valid.

mrzimmerman• 3 years ago

That’s technically true of most domain names. Bing would be more accurately named “bingsearchengine.com”, Apple would be “applecomputers.com”, etc.

That said, Native Seed Search is a non-profit here in AZ (Tucson, specifically) that works to maintain a seed bank for native plants from the Southwestern US:

Native Seeds/SEARCH (NS/S) is a nonprofit seed conservation organization based in Tucson, Arizona. Our mission is to conserve and promote the arid-adapted crop diversity of the Southwest in support of sustainable farming and food security. Native Seeds/SEARCH seeks to find, protect and preserve the seeds of the people of the Greater Southwest so that these arid adapted crops may benefit all peoples and nourish a changing world.

You’re not wrong that the domain or group name could be more specific, but at the same time the context is understood when you’re down at their brick and mortar location or buying seeds from them as myself and my family do.

stolen_biscuit2• 3 years ago

That’s technically true of most domain names. Bing would be more accurately named “bingsearchengine.com”, Apple would be “applecomputers.com”, etc.

I don't think that really holds true. Native is an association with a specific location, if you don't have the location in there it means basically nothing when exposed to a global audience. It's certainly true that if this was only exposed to US audiences (as it clearly is when shown in person as has been your experience) that it wouldn't be of any use to include a more specific location in there, but the web is global

weregiraffe• 3 years ago

That’s technically true of most domain names. Bing would be more accurately named “bingsearchengine.com”, Apple would be “applecomputers.com”, etc.

and who can forget "shitposting.ycombinator.com"

willcipriano• 3 years ago

Nativeseeds.com would let them drop the usa while also keeping it.

Karawebnetwork• 3 years ago

Historic Native lands do not stop at today's borders. The term "United States" would be misleading, as some tribes owned lands that extended beyond the U.S.-Canada border and the U.S.-Mexico border.

https://native-land.ca/

refibrillator• 3 years ago

I’ve attempted the 3 sisters technique in an urban environment and one difficulty I’ve struggled with is the fact that corn does not seem to grow strong in pots or raised beds.

Recently I learned from a farmer that many popular corn varieties require exceedingly deep roots to be sturdy. More than several feet deep in many cases - depending on corn variety, soil and weather conditions, etc.

This wouldn’t be much of an issue if I planted directly in the ground, but the trouble is I don’t trust the soil or water around here quite frankly.

This year I’m building up a mound of dirt around the base of the maturing corn stalks to help support the weight of the plant. We’ll see if they stay upright through the late summer storms. Would love to hear if anyone else has successful workarounds.

0xbadcafebee• 3 years ago

I sow directly in ground, but it's not great soil, so probably 6-10 inches below ground, the soil starts to get crap fast... lots of clay and rocks. Hard to build up good deep soil.

That, plus lack of proper nutrients (sun, rain, minerals) led my corn to be thin and short, and they quickly topple over from the beans. You can still string them up of course, but it's annoying, and the corn ears are small and sometimes under-developed. The squash also didn't seem to fare well.

DoreenMichele• 3 years ago

In the US, your local County Extension office may be able to help with such issues.

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/extension-search

13of40• 3 years ago

I actually had great success raising corn in a raised bed in western Washington state. Probably one of the easiest things I've grown. At the time we had galvanized steel mesh about 10 inches underneath the surface to keep moles out, so maybe that gave it extra grip if you're having a root issue.

peteradio• 3 years ago

Sounds like OP has a barrier beneath their planter box and doesn't want to grow plants in the native soil for whatever reason.

abcanthur• 3 years ago

I have a small raised bed dedicated to my first Three Sisters growing right now. Just planted beans a few days ago now that corn has had a head start. Rookie gardener, but hoping for at least some visual interest if not production. The beans are supposed to fix nitrogen which helps the other plants, but does anyone know if this requires a year to pass where the old bean plant decomposes into the soil? Or is merely bean plant presence enough to share nitrogen?

fuzztester• 3 years ago

Interesting point, never thought of it before, although I knew about nitrogen fixation. Google the term, Wikipedia may have the answer. I will too.

frogulis• 3 years ago

My understanding is that the nitrogen-fixing is actually done by bacteria that they have a symbiotic relationship with. How cool!

hosh2• 3 years ago

I think they have to die and turned into compost, so the benefit is for the next season.

It’s similar for notill techniques — it can take five seasons before it hits a threshold and the soil becomes more productive than with conventional methods.

kaitai3• 3 years ago

It's bacteria that live in the bean roots that do it continuously. Read more about rhizobia here: https://www.gardenbetty.com/a-look-at-legumes-rhizobia-and-r...

mvidal012• 3 years ago

I think there's only 1 cultivar of corn that does okish on containers.

roboben• 3 years ago

Mostly just works in some parts of the US. Biggest problem here is timing, sometimes beans or squash take over before corn is actually ready to let the beans vine.

Also there are many more of these “plant guilds” and it gets more interesting for perennial plants.

I have a guild with Saturn peach, horseradish, mint, strawberries and some alliums.

More inspiration here https://permapeople.org/lists?list_type=guild

scns2• 3 years ago

Thank you so much for posting this! Been wanting to do it since i first read about it. Gonna use black/blue corn since it is higher in protein and lower in sugar than the strains selected for sweetness.

NL807• 3 years ago

I'm not sure this is even worth the effort. The claims about efficient use of land area and water with this technique is questionable. I tried this myself, and some of the major issues I found is that corn seems to out compete companion plants for light, water and nutrients. The situation is even worse when your companion plants are melons or pumpkins, which also demand a lot water and light. So in the end, you'll end up with diebacks, lanky growth and low yield produce - or mostly just corn crops, because it would win the resource competition.

To prevent the above issues from happening, you'd have to space out corn so sparsely, that the corn crop amount you're getting will be hardly worth it, or you need to use a bigger garden area to make companion cultivation worthwhile in terms of results. And if you are using more land area, you might as well just partition out the companion plants into their own separate fields and get more yield that way, without any competition.

Avshalom• 3 years ago

Yeah, modern plant varietals probably aren't a great fit for a lot of old techniques.

horsawlarway2• 3 years ago

We didn't really have problems with the corn outcompeting. At least in our zone (7B/8A) as long as you're properly succession planting them (Corn first, then beans, then squash, each delayed a few weeks after the other) they tend to grow well.

The corn stalks were going dry around the time the beans were popping off, and the beans were slowing down around the time the squash really wanted the light.

Admittedly - we used smaller varieties than you for the squash (heritage summer squash) so maybe the melons need more.

Our biggest issues was just that you need a LOT of corn to get the correct pollination. 10 plants absolutely did not cut it. We needed at least 30 in our space, or the ears were half empty.

---

To be honest - it's probably still not as productive as partitioning each out and then carefully cultivating them. But it is super low maintenance once you get the hang of it. Nice for a family with young kids & jobs who are gardening on the side.

cies4• 3 years ago

A diet of corn, beans, and squash is complete and balanced.

I've run this though cronometer.com (what nutritionists use) while trying different types of beans, the following vitamins/minerals came out low:

* Zinc * Selenium * Sodium - they probably had a source of salt * VitB2 * VitB12 - this is abundant in unrefined surface water * VitK

I expected magnesium to be low, due to the omission of green leafs. But corn ( I rarely eat) turn out to be a great source, and squash is not too shabby either.

culi• 3 years ago

Zinc * Selenium * Sodium

I would be hesitant with taking mineral content seriously in produce. Plants obviously don't make minerals so mineral content is mostly a factor of soil quality and characteristics. Yes different plants have different propensities to take up different minerals, but we've seen an overall decrease in mineral content across the board since at least 1940:

All elements except P declined in concentrations between 1940 and 2019 - the greatest overall reductions during this 80-year period were Na (52%), Fe (50%), Cu (49%) and Mg (10%); water content increased (1%)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34651542/

scns2• 3 years ago

Since produce is often bred for looks and size, they might jave the same amount but lower percentages of nutrients than older varieties bred for taste/hardness.

cies4• 3 years ago

I would be hesitant with taking mineral content seriously in produce.

But it still requires some minerals in some quantities to make a broccoli. It's true that it decreased (which is in part already factored into cronometer's data), but that's not to say that it is devoid of minerals.

Also, if not from produce, where from then? Pills? They seem to have more problems than produce (sometimes badly absorbed, Mg-searate is everywhere in pills and disputed).

If it in the worst cases reduced by 50% in produce, I will just eat double doses :)

jollyllama• 3 years ago

re: Zn Se and Na - You're gonna need other grains, nuts, seeds, fish, meat, or table salt to get those.

cies4• 3 years ago

One brazil nut per day i take for my Sn fix.

dehrmann• 3 years ago

The obvious thing it's low in is fat.

cies4• 3 years ago

10 caloric% fat is enough. It's what apes get.

mvidal012• 3 years ago

It must take more experience / tending and the correct cultivars and correct timing. When I tried it the results were poor.

nrjames• 3 years ago

I'm growing the Three Sisters this year and I've learned a few things... The corn needs soil mounded around the bottom after it starts to grow because it will put out additional roots for stability. Otherwise, a strong gust of wind can bring it down. This probably is less of an issue once the beans are established. For the squash, make sure it's something "compatible" with the beans. The vine-like squashes, like butternut, provide the same shade cover (weed prevention) without growing as tall as zucchini and other summer squash. Finally, if the beans don't start up the corn before the squash gets big, they can get "lost" in the underlayer and won't get enough sunlight.

I'm not expecting a huge yield because I planted in a small area, but I love how it's turning out!

Edit: I decided to try after reading Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants, by Robin Wall Kimmerer. What a lovely book! I strongly recommend it.

horsawlarway2• 3 years ago

We've done it for the last 5 years. For the most part things grew well - one frustration:

12 corn stalks was NOT enough. The article hints at it near the bottom:

Corn is wind-pollinated and while capable of self-pollinating you will have more success with more plants. It is best to have at least 10-20 corn plants to provide sufficient pollen availability but plant more if you have the space to increase your success.

I would not recommend anything less than 20 corn plants, and if you are planting somewhere with some wind protection... more still. Our first 2 years - the corn was not adequately pollinated (12 plants in year 1, and 24 in year 2).

You can still eat some of it, but an ear that's only 20% kernel and 80% empty is a bummer.

The squash and beans are still delish.

changoplatanero• 3 years ago

I planted four corn plants and had to hand pollinate it. Tedious to do it that way but I agree with you that it won’t naturally be pollinated with so few plants

MostlyStable2• 3 years ago

I've grown field corn the last several years with ~100 plants. While I did not plant in a wind-pollinating maximizing way, my experience is that anyone who is planting at home scale needs to be ready to hand pollinate. I would be shocked if 10-20 plants, no matter how they were planted and what the wind conditions are, would have particularly high pollination rates.

Mistletoe• 3 years ago

I tried this in my raised beds last year and I simply wished I had grown the same things together. It didn’t really work out how I hoped since they are different heights and shade each other etc. Would have much preferred the corn all together in rows etc.

My understanding is that nitrogen fixing plants actually require the plant to die for the nitrogen to be released. So something like clover that grows in spring and then dies in hot summer works well. But beans growing in your corn and squash at the same time don’t do this.

getwiththeprog• 3 years ago

No, you are confusing Green Manure crops with Nitrogen Fixing Bacteria that work in symbiosis with legumes and clover and some other things where the nitrogen is extracted from the air. With Green Manure you just dig it into the soil or let it die back - many people like to leave the roots to rot in the ground without pulling them up, this is called No Till.

It you do pull up a clover you may see small nodules or balls. These contain the bacteria sites - so you can tell this way if your soil has the required bacteria - if not you can buy it in pellet for to add to the soil, or just nab some soil from another garden and put it in yours.

Try the plantings again, try more fertiliser, water and remember it takes a few years to get a great garden.

hosh2• 3 years ago

My understanding is that the roots with the bacterial nodules gets released back to the soil upon death of the plant.

So for example, sea buckthorn will spread out roots and propogate. You’d add the nitrogen back by either severing the roots between the mother tree and its offshots, or you chop one down so that it can release those nodules back into the soil.

oftenwrong• 3 years ago

There's apparently no strong scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of the "three sisters". Here's a blog post discussing the issue;

https://www.gardenmyths.com/three-sisters-agriculture-an-exa...

scythe• 3 years ago

But they do provide a relatively nice variety of nutrients in three high-yield crops while minimizing administrative overhead (one field instead of three). We should not assume that preindustrial farmers had the same priorities that we do.

kaitai3• 3 years ago

Yeah, this was an interesting but odd article posted by oftenwrong above you. When I had opportunity to visit a demonstration farm run by some Wampanoag folks, they commented that the method (once established) really cut down on weeding and maintenance (although with weeds of European origin, more weeding is needed in the present day than 500 years ago). The article from gardenmyths is quite focused on whether there is scientific evidence that the Three Sisters together increase yield, as you point out, while the emphasis on reduced weeding that the gardeners I talked to resonates with me (non-inferior yield + less weeding? sign me up!). In my own experience, having the squash (or melons) shade the soil helps immensely with water retention, weeding, and overall health of the other plants as long as they're tall enough to get the sunlight.

Other commenters talking about how much corn you need are correct. I have spent my time with a paintbrush or a paper bag hand-pollinating corn, and it's kind of a pain. If you prefer a more decorative version, sub in sunflowers for the corn. You can buy sunflower varieties optimized for eating and get a good snack that way.

atebyagrue• 3 years ago

I've grown three sisters gardens for quite a few years with great results since discovering it in a book while researching native growing methods & the Eastern Agricultural Complex. I've found the two most important things are selection of seed strains appropriate for your area/zone & spacing between the mounds. The majority of seed packs or starter kits may not be appropriate for your zone. For more information about growing methods, clearing, timing, spacing, etc., I'd recommend the fascinating read at: https://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/buffalo/garden/garde... or https://archive.org/details/agricultureofhid02wils/page/n13/...

How to Grow a Three Sisters Garden (2016)

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