MSFT exec admits console wars are over: ‘We lost the worst generation to lose'

https://fortune.com/2023/05/05/microsoft-exec-phil-spencer-admits-the-console-war-lost-sony-playstation-nintendo-switch/

by foruhar • 3 years ago

47 60 3 years ago

fortune.com

rektide• 3 years ago

Kind of the end of history. There's just so much longer periods for consoles. You're stuck with what you ship for a long time, the memories keep enduring, the next thing isn't right over the hill.

Zhyl• 3 years ago

If this is sincere then it's a heartbreaking moment of reflection and clarity for Microsoft - albeit with the success of game pass I don't think they're going to be too sad about the relative poor performance of XBone and Series X.

If it's a cynical play to appear vulnerable so that they're in a better position to appeal the UK CMA decision then I think they're going to have to come up with more than the "poor little us" story when they still have $69bn knocking around for the acquisition.

The console wars will be over when Microsoft ditches the XBox and uses the PC as their platform. I don't see that happening for the next generation.

daniel-thompson• 3 years ago

If this is sincere then it's a heartbreaking moment of reflection and clarity for Microsoft

Don't worry; it isn't.

SalimoS• 3 years ago

That’s bs, you can’t say console war is over because we lost but still have the most anticipated game (for Bethesda fans at least) exclusive in the console market

I would believe them when I see Forza, Halo and other xbox games on PlayStation

manojlds2• 3 years ago

Most expected games inorder

1. TotK 2. Spiderman 2 3. Starfield

And each is exclusive and only Starfield comes on PC. What are you talking about?

psychlops• 3 years ago

TotK = The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom

To save anyone else the googling I had to do....

Narishma2• 3 years ago

Spiderman 2 will probably come on PC in a few years.

dvngnt_• 3 years ago

you can play the new Zelda game on PC right now though

Waterluvian3• 3 years ago

The PS4 outsold Xbox One so badly that Microsoft stopped sharing the numbers.

The best we can tell right now[1], PS5 has outsold One S/X by about the same 2:1 ratio, and the Xbox didn’t spend a year struggling to stay in stock.

From a fan’s perspective, I can certainly see why a “console war” might be measured by how many good titles they have. But these businesses are generally interested in making money.

[1] https://www.ign.com/articles/best-selling-video-game-console...

CharlesW• 3 years ago

…the Xbox didn’t spend a year struggling to stay in stock.

The Xbox Series X was nearly impossible to get at retail for two years, and is still difficult to find unless you pay $100-200 more for a bundle.

It's not at all surprising to me that a console launch is going to do poorly if it can't be purchased without dealing with scalpers.

ummonk• 3 years ago

Wait the ratio is only 2:1? From the original article and your first sentence I was expecting Xbox to be on the verge of a death spiral, not getting as much as 50% of PS5 sales.

blihp• 3 years ago

They're saying they lost the console war because they're trying to get a big acquisition approved. They're trying to sell the story 'see how weak we are... we need this to remain competitive'.

AraceliHarker2• 3 years ago

It is a fact that Xbox One/Series has inferior sales to PS4/5 in almost all countries to varying degrees. In fact, other than the CMA in the UK, which has taken issue with cloud gaming, have regulators in other countries approved Microsoft's acquisition of AB on the basis that it would not reduce competition, based on Xbox's share of the console market? The UK should also be of the opinion that there is no problem if it is only consoles. I think Spencer's argument is rather counterproductive as a rebuttal to the CMA, since he is not talking about consoles, but rather about cloud games, mobile games, etc., which are the main areas of focus.

est2• 3 years ago

While big corps spend money on consoles in an attempt to dominate the living room, I have noticed an increasing number of shopping malls offering pay-as-you-go console booths and VR arcades. Are business-oriented consoles becoming a thing?

gryn• 3 years ago

You mean making a comeback? kinda noticed this with VR boots Maybe it depends on the country, I remember back in the PS2 era a lot of cybercafes in my hometown had sections where you could rent time to play competitive games, a lot of teenagers would go and play mini tournaments.

est2• 3 years ago

I've never played them but I assume for-business consoles must have some different offering than home consoles. Like roaming profiles, etc.

GalenErso• 3 years ago

- Confusing naming conventions. Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Xbox Series X. Compare to Sony's Playstations 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Names matter enormously. There's a reason why FAANG and FAANG-tier tech firms all have very simple names. While that may be far from the only reason why these companies are so successful, it matters more than one thinks.

- Lack of AAA exclusives. Halo is the main one, but Sony has God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, all the Spider Men, The Last of Us, Gran Turismo, and others.

- Price. The PS4 was cheaper than the Xbox One by $100, and this mattered to parents who could afford to gift their children a $400-$500 console, but not a $1,500+ gaming PC. This matters less in the North American market, where people have more disposable income, but East Asian and European markets are safely in Sony's pocket.

- Controllers? There is a meme that Xbox controllers are designed for large, "American" hands. Regardless of the truth, memes and perceptions shape decisions.

- Sony has the Japanese market locked up. Xbox is the dominant console in the US, but its dominance is weak: 53.3% vs. 46.65% for the Playstation.[1] Which begs the question: why hasn't Microsoft crushed the competition in its prime domestic market, but Sony crushed theirs in Japan?

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1044948/market-share-of-...

mtreis86• 3 years ago

Sony has Gran Tourismo, Forza is a Microsoft game.

markdown• 3 years ago

Speaking of which, there's a movie coming out. Trailed dropped 4 days ago. Another big win for Sony https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVPzGBvPrzw

cm21872• 3 years ago

And in my case the xbox was too thick to fit in my TV stand so I had to switch to the ps5...

noodlesUK2• 3 years ago

That’s deeply surprising for me - the Xbox series X is admittedly a weird shape, but the PS5 is way bigger overall. Though the PS5 certainly is a more traditional shape. When you say thick, I assume you were thinking of placing the consoles horizontally?

PS5: 15x4x10 inches Xbox Series X: 12x6x6 inches

TMWNN• 3 years ago

Confusing naming conventions. Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Xbox Series X. Compare to Sony's Playstations 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Names matter enormously.

It all goes back to Microsoft not naming the 360 "Xbox 3" with some lame excuse for why it did so. Yes, everyone would have laughed, but no one would remember or care today that the "Xbox 5" isn't actually the fifth Xbox.

jrockway• 3 years ago

3, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10, 11

It's just not something they're good at.

KoftaBob• 3 years ago

Wouldn't the 360 have been Xbox 2?

logbiscuitswave• 3 years ago

Calling it the Xbox 3 would have been super confusing given it was the follow up to the original Xbox. 360 wasn’t a bad name — at least not compared to the One (which _was_ the 3rd Xbox iteration) and One X followed by the terrible Series S/X nomenclature of the current generation console.

doodlesdev• 3 years ago

   > Sony has God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, all the Spider Men, The Last of Us, Forza, and others.

I imagine you mean Gran Turismo, not Forza.

nordsieck• 3 years ago

Controllers? There is a meme that Xbox controllers are designed for large, "American" hands. Regardless of the truth, memes and perceptions shape decisions.

A bit out of date, but this was the Penny Arcade about the original XBox controller:

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/08/29/you-know-what-...

dehrmann3• 3 years ago

The Duke doesn't get enough love.

jameshart• 3 years ago

FAANG and FAANG-tier tech firms all have very simple names

Erm... really? Let's just take that one at a time, shall we?

F - Facebook. Or should we say Meta? Home of the Oculus Rift and the Oculus Quest, if you can remember which of those is which. Sorry, that's now the Meta Quest.

A - Amazon. Such clarity of naming. Everyone knows they have a product called 'Alexa', right? And of course, to get that, you need to buy an... Echo. Or an Echo Dot. Or an Echo Studio, or an Echo Show?. Obviously it's clear what a Kindle Oasis is, compared to a Kindle. And then beyond that of course we've got the wonder that is AWS product naming. Aurora, Kinesis, Fargate, InfiniDash, Athena, Elastic Beanstalk, Route53... Clearly a model of clarity.

A - Apple. Absolutely, the home of the iPhone 14, the iPhone 14 Pro, the iPhone 14 Plus, the iPhone 14 Pro Max, and the iPhone SE, or the Apple Watches Ultra, SE, Nike and Hermés could never be accused of confusing product naming.

N - Netflix. Sure. You know the difference between Netflix Basic, Netflix Standard with Ads, and Netflix Standard, right?

G - Google. Right. Google Workspace, Google Docs, G Suite... or Youtube Premium vs Youtube TV...

You're right. Not a one of these companies would name product tiers confusingly.

dghlsakjg• 3 years ago

Google? Don’t you mean alphabet?

That’s the company that has that chat product gchat/hangouts/meet

nemothekid• 3 years ago

Looking at the current generation is already too late, MSFT had shot themselves in the foot with previous generation. The Xbox One was a disaster and squandered all the inroads they had made with the 360. They spent an entire generation trying to win their own fanbase back after the missteps with Kinect and always-online. The PS4, on the other hand, won a lot of momentum that had lost during the PS3 era.

kitsunesoba• 3 years ago

They spent an entire generation trying to win their own fanbase back after the missteps with Kinect and always-online.

Another thing that really wrecked the Xbox One was their original intentions of locking discs to consoles to prevent game resale. It was a PR disaster of the highest order that they never recovered from, even after backtracking relatively quickly.

BrotherBisquick• 3 years ago

I despise all things Microsoft but the 360 and later controllers are excellent designs and are possibly the best standard-issue console controllers ever. I will die on this hill.

Sony's stubborn refusal to modify their basic controller shape/layout in the last 28 years isn't admirable and is not endearing them to people with good taste (i.e., me).

And yes, I am aware that I just declared myself willing to die on a hill while simultaneously criticizing Sony for dying on a hill.

Narishma2• 3 years ago

That's entirely subjective. I vastly prefer the Playstation controller layout myself.

JTbane• 3 years ago

- Confusing naming conventions

It's a Microsoft tradition: see .NET Core, .NET Standard, .NET Desktop, ASP.NET, etc

ro_bit• 3 years ago

https://archive.is/IFZCE

surgical_fire• 3 years ago

While typically I think that more competition is good, I always shuddered at the possibility of Microsoft gaining an upper hand on the gaming market (for that matter, I wanted the Stadia to fail badly for the same reason).

The amount of damage to the market those big tech companies could do was immense. I'm okay with Sony and Nintendo calling the shots there.

Hopefully, Valve can make some strides in the PC market with Steam Deck. Things are too concentrated on Windows as it is

lnxg33k1• 3 years ago

This is just PR to pretend their deal with Activision wouldn't result on a oligopoly, what a coincidence

seatac762• 3 years ago

Exactly!

crazygringo• 3 years ago

https://archive.is/IFZCE

seatac762• 3 years ago

The core problem MS has is that, it is bad at studio management and simply does not have the same creative vision. Hence the playbook of buying big studios. If they can fix that they’d be fine. Using Sony as a comparison is not ideal, Sony buys comparatively small studios and nurtures them to big IPs. It’s not the same thing, despite the complaints from MS. Recent Redfall release is a classic example.

prng2021• 3 years ago

“It’s just not true that if we go off and build great games, all of a sudden you’re going to see console share shift in some dramatic way. We lost the worst generation to lose in the Xbox One,” the Microsoft exec said.

—-

This is why MSFT wants to pay $69B for Activision Blizzard. Because Phil knows making better games is worthless and wants to ensure they burn through all that cash to make sure it doesn’t accidentally get used for something useful. Give me a break.

CMay• 3 years ago

This is based on the Phil Spencer interview by Kinda Funny. The major point was that as consoles transitioned to online digital libraries, the customer investments into those account-bound libraries really helped crystallize the console preferences.

The result is that there are only so many big bets you can make to try to win customers over to your console, because the majority have already become relatively locked into their platform.

With that perspective, if you want to expand your customer base you release things on other platforms like PC, Switch and cloud (which is itself a multi-faceted opportunity as infrastructure improves). That said, it's not impossible for momentum to build over the next decade where console growth could become a bigger part of the story than it currently is.

Kinda Funny Games - Phil Spencer Interview: Redfall Reviews, Activision Deal - Kinda Funny Xcast Ep. 137

- https://youtu.be/yKwfEQ1eEyM?t=2167

MSFT exec admits console wars are over: ‘We lost the worst generation to lose'

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