Meta's Reality Labs lost $3.99B last year, bringing total losses to $30B

https://www.techspot.com/news/98475-meta-metaverse-focused-reality-labs-lost-399-billion.html

by CharlesW • 3 years ago

55 47 3 years ago

emschwartz• 3 years ago

I don’t know whether it’s the medium or the current offerings but I was gifted an Oculus, played with it for under a week, and haven’t gone back to it. Maybe VR will be a thing in the future but somehow I’m not seeing it now.

Anyone else in a similar boat? Or have a theory why it’s less compelling than a traditional gaming console?

thatguy0900• 3 years ago

The only game I found that was more than a brief novelty is beat Sabre. With mods for custom songs it is very replayable. Google earth, funnily enough, is my second most used game. Very good for chilling in scenic spots or wondering around foreign countries. Google spotlight stories are also very good if you didn't try them, I can see a future in vr movies very clearly while watching them. My theory as to why there isn't good games is that vr is difficult to stream, and the target market of gamers are not the kind to want to be active for extended periods.

abraxas2• 3 years ago

To each their own. I don't really like gaming but given the choice I will pick up the VR headset rather than play on the screen.

I like VR for rhythm and workout games. Those are far less compelling on a flat screen with stuff like wii

andsoitis3• 3 years ago

I like VR for rhythm and workout games.

Is that jumping around the room with a tethered VR helmet on your head and face?

How long are you able to do that for in one session? Asking because I play Horizon on PS 5 with PSVR2 (it is fantastic experience), but can do it for 30mins maybe 45mins tops in a session, before I feel ill.

CharlesW2• 3 years ago

Or have a theory why it’s less compelling than a traditional gaming console?

My kids enjoy their Quests, but use is fairly rare in comparison to their iPads and PCs.

I just asked my daughter why she plays it less, and she says it's because (1) there are fewer games she's interested in, (2) battery life is poor (and so sessions are shorter than they are on alternatives), and (3) it's uncomfortable to wear for long periods of time.

Honestly, I don't think we'll be upgrading to Quest 2 or whatever comes after. The whole "forced Facebook logins" thing left a bad taste in my mouth and caused problems that took their support folks weeks to untangle. Our current thinking is that we'll just wait for Apple to do it right.

super256• 3 years ago

I know people who basically live in VRChat (outside work) and use it as a substitute for real life interaction. I doubt it’s healthy, but it seems to work for them.

andsoitis3• 3 years ago

How do you interact with them?

cbo100• 3 years ago

I still use my original rift for sim racing. It's brilliant, and much more convenient than trying to setup 3 or 4 monitors instead.

I have no interest in a metaverse or social vr activities.

On its own, with consistent simple hardware improvements the CV1 would have been a decently profitable business by most other companies' standards and done well enough to keep going.

Facebook/SV trying to turn VR into something it's not ready to be, and that nobody is particularly interested in, in the hope of turning it into a mega multi billion dollar venture worthy of them is what has made it no fun and is just wasted money.

grepfru_it• 3 years ago

I think team survival games with PvE and PvP elements would be lots of fun in a VR setting. GTA:5 gave us a pretty good glimpse at what online social activities could look like. Hanging out in someone's apartment, going for a race in the drainage system of the city, playing golf, etc. My thought of a "metaverse" is like LambdaMOO, a rich environment to start from and completely extendable and customizable. Does that cost $30B+ to build? I don't know.

sickcodebruh• 3 years ago

I don’t have one but this made me think of something that might be in a similar ballpark.

I play guitar and write songs. I use my computer to help with this. Over the years, I’ve had:

* a little amp with a microphone that connects to my audio interface

* 1 watt tube amp built for recording, made by the same company that makes my incredible 120 watt monster amp for live performance, plugs straight into my audio interface for silent recording

* a high end digital amp used by pros for live and recording, I can use it AS the interface but it’s bigger than the hardware that lives on my desk

I still go back to the software amp simulation, a plugin running in the recording software I use for composition, because it’s quicker and easier to plug the guitar straight into audio interface and go. It doesn’t sound as good as my Fractal FM9 but it’s still great, it makes me happy, and it demands less time/space/effort than all the others. Unless I’m pursuing something that I can only get from the “bigger and better solutions,” convenience always wins.

VR strikes me as being in a similar place. Yes, it has a unique value. No, nothing is like it. But… my PS5 through my 4K TV and home theater is extremely sick AND I can just pickup a controller and go!

agentwiggles• 3 years ago

I have one of Fender's Mustang amps, and one feature I really love is that it has a built in audio interface. It sits on my desk and is constantly plugged in to my machine, so if I'm ever noodling and want to start recording in GarageBand I can have a track going in like 30 seconds.

It's really nice to have an interface that doesn't require me to try to route audio through my computer. It just works exactly like a (slightly complicated) regular amp all the time, and behaves exactly the same while recording as it does when it's not.

It's got all kinds of built in amp sims and effects, but I play it on the same setting about 95% of the time (I've never been much for tone chasing). But it also has a built in looper, which I use all the time.

I really love the thing, great piece of hardware. It's got some warts but nothing I can't work around.

SheinhardtWigCo• 3 years ago

Visual fidelity. Today's top-tier HMDs produce garbage visuals, relative to top-tier gaming consoles.

seanmcdirmid4• 3 years ago

The Quest sucks as a gaming console as far as I can tell. I still use it everyday, but just for VR fitness stuff. I have a Switch for gaming. Maybe someone will eventually come up with a casual game that can work for VR that isn’t just slicing things up to music (which is fine, but it feels more like relaxed exercise than anything with progression).

tristanb• 3 years ago

I enjoy watching Meta burn their future away on this nonsense.

skizm• 3 years ago

Quarter, not year.

CharlesW2• 3 years ago

Wow, I think you're correct. An editor must've munged the story headline, which is "Meta's Reality Labs lost $3.99 billion last year, bringing its total losses since 2020 to $30 billion" as I type this:

"But a less welcome part of the report related to Meta's Reality Labs division, which once against lost money: $3.99 billion during the three months. That adds to the $14 billion it lost across last year and brings the total loss since Q4 2020 to an eye-watering $30 billion. The only solace for Zuckerberg is that the most recent losses weren't as bad as the $4.3 billion it lost during the previous quarter."

GreedClarifies• 3 years ago

I'm failing to see how the stock market is taking this as a signal that Meta will no longer pour money down the VR hole.

We live in a weird world!

penjelly• 3 years ago

mark said himself they dont intend to stop working on the metaverse

waynesonfire2• 3 years ago

typical narcissistic answer. they'll defund it and never technically "stop"

kevinventullo• 3 years ago

They won’t stop working on it but they may pause work on it.

ricardobeat2• 3 years ago

since 2020, the division has lost a massive $30 billion.

This is absolutely bonkers. Billions burnt on research and software that nobody uses, and in the meantime we haven't seen a hardware upgrade for the (consumer) Quest since.

1letterunixname• 3 years ago

Quest Pro is out and cheaper now. The Quest 3 is around the corner.

seanmcdirmid4• 3 years ago

I don’t see the appeal of the Pro, If the Quest 3 is a substantial improvement over the 2. I’ll buy it (it would be my 4th Quest).

ricardobeat2• 3 years ago

Still it costs 3x as much, and is not really a significant upgrade. No foveated rendering, small resolution increase, no OLED, low-res passthrough. Hopefully the Quest 3 will improve on some of those.

dzdt2• 3 years ago

We got an occulus for the kids. Set up its own family facebook account (not a supported approach: somehow they want there to be a single user of the device???). Eventually the device lost its login info and it hasn't been worth the hassle to get it logged back in. Sits unused in the cabinet. When it was 'working' about 50% of the time it wouldn't be charged when you want it. And then its clunky to wear. We set up screencasting so friends in the room could share in the experience (otherwise it would have been completely antisocial and unfun except alone) but that is also clunky and a pain. The sheer hassle of these things is just a killer for its viability.

AuryGlenz3• 3 years ago

It sounds like a lot of your trouble would be solved with the $50 BoboVr battery strap. It has a battery that magnetically snaps to the back and is pretty comfy to boot.

They also have a battery dock with two batteries.

dzdt2• 3 years ago

I think you misunderstand. The main trouble is the amount of steps. The probability that some step may fail and derail the experience is important also but secondary. The fact that some steps are unpleasant is also important.

Scenario: kid 1 has a friend over and wants to show them the occulus.

Materials to locate:

1. occulus headset

2. occulus left controller

3. occulus right controller

4. occulus charger (to recharge when session is done or else next time is a bust)

5. tv remote (so kid can play and friend watch or vice-versa; otherwise its non-interactive turns and not socially fun)

6. chromecast remote (screensharing doesnt work directly to tv, it needs another device to receive)

7. () parent (to help set up the sharing, which requires navigating unfriendly menus on 3 devices with 3 controllers not all of which can be seen at the same time)

8. () parent's laptop (in the event the device facebook got logged out, it needs another device to log it back in)

9. () parent's password notebook

You're suggesting to add:

10. BoboVr battery strap

11. BoboVr extra battery

12. BoboVr charging dock

When everything is located, pregaming steps are:

1. clear area, including move the heavy coffee table back

2. start tv

3. set tv input to chromecast

4. start chromecast

5. start occulus

6. adjust headset straps

7. with headset on, find vr menu to cast occulus

8. with headset off, find chromecast menu to accept screencast

9. with headset on, reset play area and floor level

10. () with headset on, start facebook login

11. () with headset off, with parent's laptop log into device facebook account

12. () with headset both off and on, copy code from vr screen to laptop

Steps with a (*) shouldn't have to happen every time. But the whole process is daunting. Add to it the device is unpleasant to wear and causes vertigo... not worth it.

waynesonfire2• 3 years ago

I wonder what they expect their killer app to be for the revenue stream to turn around. Like, do they think they just need to solve the leg problem and it's all gravy after that? Wild... John Carmack would talk about the price of the headset needing to drop.. even he was disillusion.

machdiamonds• 3 years ago

I personally believe that VR headsets will become increasingly popular in the future due to their many different use cases. However, looking from an outsider's perspective, it doesn't seem like Meta has used their $30 billion investment efficiently. While their research demos are impressive, it's hard to justify such a massive investment for what we've seen so far.

Furthermore, Meta may have reason to worry about Apple's upcoming VR headset, which is rumored to have significantly better specs and enable users to perform tasks that the current Quest headset can't. For example, the rumored 4k screens could potentially serve as a viable replacement for monitors, the M1 silicon could deliver much better graphics, etc. Additionally, Apple's ecosystem is likely to attract a larger number of developers to create more applications.

Because the rumored price of Apple's headset is so high ($3000), Meta may still have some time to cement themselves as the VR company. I can't help but wonder if the situation will end up playing out similarly to the release of smartwatches for Android vs the Apple Watch. Android smartwatches hit the market first, but Apple ultimately took over the industry after releasing their product.

shubb• 3 years ago

Kind of agree kind of don't.

Stuff like 4k screens is a case of buying the slightly more expensive off the shelf components. Although I'm sure apple has its special sauce, it's just a case of engineering to a different cost. 8k headsets have been out for years.

What the research should be yielding is deep technological innovation in lense and rendering design, gesture recognition and ideally a developer tools ecosystem. This is what we are seeing in the demos but it has not translated into the current product.

To give an apple vs Samsung example, either company can choose to buy a larger battery from LG and have longer artery life, but only by replicating the billions Apple poured into developing a custom chip design can you match the iPhone performance at cost and size. Something Samsung recently accepted it has to do.

So I think that, if the product category works out the investment is fine.

The problem is that at the moment we have a Google situation. You know, inventing LLMs and then watching microsoft productize them. Over the next couple years, FB either uses its research to produce a product apple can't match, or bust on the whole thing.

throwawayjs• 3 years ago

I would love to use my oculus more often but VR sickness is too real. I actually get nauseous whenever I even think about my oculus. It effects me so bad that the moment I put it on I feel sick and the sick feeling lingers for sometimes the next day.

ukuina• 3 years ago

This is symptomatic of modern software development practices which, with excessive planning, "user stories", and recursive mangling down of features into disparate sprint tasks, manages to inject a stymying amount of beaurocracy in an effort to typecast developer ability into interchangeable cogs and embrace attrition instead of fostering craftsmanship.

How many 10x engineers are being forced into a 1x mold just so a sea of 0.7x engineers can be shimmed into the same 1x mold?

xorvoid• 3 years ago

How many 0.7x engineers are there? If num(0.7x) >> num(10x) then this is an optimal strategy. IMHO, this is why you see large companies operate this way. Also, the 10x engineers are often repelled by overly large orgs anyways.. further biasing things.

bushbaba• 3 years ago

The 10x engineer might also not be building software in a manner that is long lived and easily contributed to by a large team.

pimlottc• 3 years ago

How many 10x engineers are racing full speed ahead making products that no one wants?

mlazos• 3 years ago

The irony is meta has none of these things. It’s the least bureaucratic place I’ve ever worked. Whether or not that’s a good thing I’ll leave up to the reader.

mensetmanusman• 3 years ago

All R&D is lost before it pays off.

msie• 3 years ago

AI-powered porn will save VR.

perryizgr8• 3 years ago

I know that research is expensive but $30B? Isn't this a bit too much? Is it because of hardware? Salaries cannot explain more than a tenth of this IMO.

standardly• 3 years ago

Pardon my naivete, but what does 30B even go towards? Salaries and?

Imagine floundering that sum of money... and what good COULD have been done with it. This is an affront to humanity

Meta's Reality Labs lost $3.99B last year, bringing total losses to $30B

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