Chevy Bolt EV and Bolt EUV production is ending this year

https://www.thedrive.com/news/chevy-bolt-ev-and-bolt-euv-production-is-ending-this-year

by PaulHoule • 3 years ago

19 46 3 years ago

exabrial• 3 years ago

This is what annoys me, and this is my opinion so take it for what you paid for it: I don't think people are as committed to their social causes as they claim; they're more doing something as it's popular rather than for the true cause.

The Chevy Bolt and Chevy Volt were both superb cars, however, they sorta got eschewed for not being en vogue. The Volt in particular was very well engineered with a unique powertrain that offered multiple advantages over battery electric and hybrids, while not being astronomically priced.

What we're seeing is elitism, not environmentalism.

abracadaniel• 3 years ago

Both were popular cars though. They had good reputations and were hard to find, so people were buying them as fast as they were making them.

jterrys• 3 years ago

But that's not at all the reason why. Even the article explains it. They sold well but Chevrolet's quality control is bad. They lost money because of recalls and lack of good control processes to make these cars. They ran a cost benefit analysis and said, "fuck it, we'll continue making shittier cars".

It also doesn't help that many U.S manufacturers opt into building Trucks and SUVs to avoid emission regulations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo

nicenewtemp847• 3 years ago

I own a Chevy Volt and frequent forums and a very popular FB group for volt owners. The gen1 volt basically had zero common problems other than an axle nut, and CV axles that wear out fast (because the axle handles forward motion but also reverse stress during Regen braking). The gen2 volt has an EGR valve/cooler problem, and a transmission shift linkage module that gives false readings. Both issues plague a high percentage of gen2 volts, and parts are nowhere to be found. Volts are sitting under warranty at dealerships for months sometimes waiting for parts.

It honestly sounds like GM has more supplier problems than they do engineering or fundamental cost problems.

If they quality controlled their suppliers better, and demanded reimbursememt for failed components from suppliers (basically a warranty from their supplier) they would be much better of.

Also, some of this is a programming fault. GM is often good at this. Don't make the failure mode of something result in the car bricking itself.

The shifter issue stems from the fact the gear position sensor fails and tells people to "shift to park" before you can start the car.

Was that REALLY required? Can I honestly not start my car if I'm in D? I'm already forced to press the brake pedal anyway. So Jesus let me start it in whatever gear you think I'm in. Maybe there's a governmemt rule I suppose. I just wish things defaulted to not bricking themselves over a technicality. Car technically functions, mechanical selector is moving correcrly. Safety switch fails.

dsfyu404ed2• 3 years ago

The demographics who both buy new cars and buy EV in 2016-present wouldn't be caught dead buying something from GM. No wonder it went over about as well as the Subaru Baja.

Slap a Toyota or maybe Honda badge on the grill and the Bolt/Volt would have flown off the shelves.

tibbydudeza3• 3 years ago

Indeed but they were not committed to it like VW is with the ID.3 and ID.2. The gig was up when they stopped selling the Sonic and said their future was just trucks and SUV's.

AtlasBarfed• 3 years ago

In many ways an EV is a superior to ICE:

- quieter - charge at home / no gas station - quicker and smoother acceleration and handling - less components (less breakdowns ... in theory) - cheaper maintenance - cheaper operation (electricity SHOULD be cheaper than gas) - one pedal driving - no air pollution - will be cheaper than ICE at initial cost very soon, and will eventually be much cheaper.

The downsides are long distance range + recharging times for those trips

The point is that EVs aren't primarily an environmental cause. For your typical american it will be a simple selfish rational choice. I would guess in about five years this will be the choice for the new car buyer:

- buy an electric car for $25000 - $30000 that will cost $2000 / yr between recharging and maintenance, and has resale value

- buy an ICE for $40000 that will cost $4000 / yr between gas and maintenance, but those two long trips you take a year will be a half hour faster. Oh, and its resale value is basically nothing since ICE is being phased out.

These are rational economic decisions, by the standards of what the "science" of Economics thinks is "rational" (generally speaking: think short term and only about yourself).

Now, the used EV market is a bit thin now, but that is changing rapidly. The only thing that changes the calculus is the battery replacement and the fact that used buyers aren't resale/tradein focused.

Consider how new cars are financed (and BOY are they financed these days, with 7-10 year loans!). And this goes to a lot of my thinking on how EVs and alt energy are going to inflict a shrinking economies of lessening scale on the oil and ICE industries: why would a bank finance an oil exploration/development project on the scale of 10-20 years right now?

Soon, why would a bank finance a 7-10 year loan on an ICE? A core part of that loan is the value of a car, but if the innovation rate and adoption rate of EVs is as rapid as it is (I think it will get faster once 5-10 big automakers really get cranking), the value of an ICE car bought new looks to depreciate EVEN FASTER than it normally does.

I would argue that the 7-year value of a newly purchased ICE today is half or less of what it conventionally is viewed as (and ICE cars are now much more reliable than even 10 years ago, which underpins a lot of the 7-10 year loans).

Have the banks caught on to this? probably not, they need to encounter some "rude awakenings".

Finally, consider how much industry focuses your choice. Do you think the car companies are going to EV strictly because it is "trendy" and that regulatory agencies are forcing it?

No. They are going because of economic realities.

Tesla is allegedly at 33% margin on its cars, and the cost projections for its most expensive components (the batteries) is down. Way down. Probably will drop by half in just a couple years with LFP / Sodium Ion advances, and whatever comes out of Solid State / Sulfur / whatever CATL is doing.

A car company today has a choice: keep making ICE cars that 5-10 years will cost $10000 MORE than an EV, or make the EV transition. (again, per above, an EV is a fundamentally superior vehicle for consumers in most ways).

The investors in auto companies know this. BMW, VW and other CEOs have been fired recently because they have squandered or failed to start the EV transition. The investors know that BEVs will cause apocalyptic disruption to automakers, and you are a dead man standing if you don't have a BEV engineering team spun up yesterday.

piyh• 3 years ago

I don't think people are as committed to their social causes as they claim

I'd have to pay $10-15k more money to get a smaller car that wouldn't fit my young family loaded up for a 2 night trip at my sisters. We'd have to stop at the one charger available in a 2 hour radius off our route, and still would risk getting stranded due to range issues if driving during the winter. We make these trips monthly.

It's not elitism, it's that people have economic constraints, the electrics cars in the marketplace are at a cost differential that equates to a year of college, and have huge real world disadvantages compared to lower cost alternatives.

travisporter• 3 years ago

I agree it's not elitism. Real world constraints are the main issue. But still, you are not the typical driver by making a 300+ mile round trip every month.

The real issue is charging infrastructure. I'm sure you wouldn't mind a 10 min break in an ioniq 5 or similar to go 20-80%, but these are few and far between right now.

giraffe_lady• 3 years ago

The thing is that buying a new car of any kind actively works against a future that solves the problem merely attenuated by buying an electric car. You can have the same impact by keeping your current car and simply driving less. People willing to spend $15k on this cause are probably willing to take the equally impactful and less compromising step of changing their transport and consumption habits, instead.

So you're probably right that what's left is mostly people participating in a cultural trend. You're just wrong that people are refusing to solve the problem through electric cars, since electric cars don't solve the problem. People are acting reasonably in response to that, there's no inconsistency or hypocrisy in it.

nradov4• 3 years ago

The GM Voltec drivetrain was technically excellent, but they put it in the wrong vehicle. Small sedans (or pseudo hatchbacks) like the Volt are a dying market niche. The interior was cramped, especially the back seat. If GM had put the same drivetrain into a compact crossover SUV with a little more interior comfort and cargo space then it would have been more successful. Look how popular the Toyota RAV4 Prime plug-in hybrid SUV is.

tibbydudeza3• 3 years ago

Not surprised - they stop caring making compact or subcompact cars a while back when they sold Opel to Peugeot PSA.

They seem to forget that a kid buying a Civic today will one day have a family and drive a Honda SUV in a few years time.

VW/Nissan/Toyota will no doubt be glad.

PaulHoule• 3 years ago

Japanese car dealers play the same games nowadays that American car dealers always did.

The biggest threat to their bottom line is economy cars. If somebody buys an economy car who could possibly spend another $20,000 that is a lost opportunity that won’t come back for 5 of 10 years in many cases.

Last time i bought a Fit I wanted a new one but had to get a used because they had no Fits because the ‘factory washed out in a flood' but they had 50 HR-Vs lined up that nobody had bought yet that came from the same factory.

The automotive press repeats that line that Americans only want to buy huge cars like the people in The Manchurian Candidate but the fact is everyday somebody goes into a car dealership and gets pressured to buy something bigger than they wanted initially.

tibbydudeza3• 3 years ago

Cause car financing is more profitable than selling the cars.

dsfyu404ed2• 3 years ago

This. Even if dealers don't "go away" as many want the shift to a "put in your order" model over 2020-2022 definitely gave OEMs a lot more visibility into what people want vs what dealers want to stock their lots with. See for example the success of the Maverick and the jump in manual transmission take rate.

1970-01-013• 3 years ago

So a buyer will soon see 3 options for buying a new "American" electric car:

Model 3 around $37,000

Model S around $90,000

Lucid Air around $90,000

Everything else American to be made CUV size or bigger!

matthewdgreen• 3 years ago

The article says Chevy is launching the Equinox EV for $30k in Fall 2023.

Kirby64• 3 years ago

Equinox is an SUV, as stated by Chevy. GP was talking about American made sedans or 'small' EVs. Bolt is/was MUCH smaller than the Equinox.

fshbbdssbbgdd2• 3 years ago

If you look up the dimensions of the Model S, Equinox EV, Mustang EV, and Lucid Air, you will find the Model S is actually the longest and the widest of the bunch. So it’s weird to exclude the Equinox and Mustang from this price comparison.

The Mustang is 1 inch longer and wider than the Model 3.

Nobody wants to sell small EVs in America, apparently.

1970-01-013• 3 years ago

Equinox is a CUV. Mustang is a CUV, and bigger than the Model 3:

https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/ford-mustang-mach-e...

markrote• 3 years ago

The Chevy Equinox and the Ford Mustang EV are both made in Mexico.

bushbaba2• 3 years ago

ID4 is also made in america

dpkirchner• 3 years ago

Awesome. We were just talking about maybe getting a Bolt EV to replace our aging Fit. We were also thinking about the Leaf but rumors are that it's on the chopping block as well. It's weird to me there isn't more demand for small hatchback EVs.

germinalphrase2• 3 years ago

VW sees the GTI as the benchmark within the small hatch segment, so I’m hopeful about (eventual) EV GTI.

jefurii• 3 years ago

Hatchbacks FTW! I would totally buy an electric or even a hybrid Fit.

wcfields• 3 years ago

What's crazy is that they sell waaaay more configurations of the Fit for the Japanese market [1], even a "Crosstar" trim level with 4wd + hybrid! [2].

A real shame they discontinued the Fit in the North American market, I would have easily bought one but ended up with an HR-V because it's basically a Fit on steroids (same chassis, still has magic seats until 2022), but it's a big percent price jump: $17k (2020 fit) -> $21k (2020 hrv).

[1] https://www.honda.co.jp/Fit/webcatalog/type/list/

[2] https://www.honda.co.jp/Fit/webcatalog/type/crosstar/?from=c...

comte7092• 3 years ago

There’s demand and there’s profitability, one of these is much more important to a manufacturer.

Given the current supply constraints, high volume low margin models don’t make a ton of business sense, unfortunately.

kotaKat• 3 years ago

Yet another unpopular move from the automaker that brings you such great hits as "No more CarPlay or Android Auto" and "Mandatory 3 year OnStar subscriptions on select high end vehicles"...

bushbaba2• 3 years ago

Why the Equinix is priced relatively similar, and is a better car.

goosedragons• 3 years ago

Why? The Equinox isn't even a car.

stalfosknight• 3 years ago

I am getting more and more annoyed over time with how almost every new EV is an SUV, crossover, or truck. I'm not hating on those who want or need larger vehicles but why can't there be smaller coupes for those who want something not gigantic?

Chevy Bolt EV and Bolt EUV production is ending this year

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