Amsterdam's 'stay away' campaign targets troublesome visitors

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/amsterdam-sex-drugs-tourism/index.html

by Tomte • 4 years ago

51 53 4 years ago

yunohn• 4 years ago

I find it interesting that the article mentions the government is working with “hoteliers” multiple times, and then randomly inserts:

One specific measure, for example, would target day visitors, many of whom drive in from around the Netherlands, as well as from neighboring countries including Germany, and sleep in their cars instead of staying in a hotel.

The measure is not specified, nor explained. Sounds more like the gov/hotels are annoyed that some tourists don’t book rooms, but want to find ways to make them.

This makes me suspicious that the campaign is unfairly influenced by lobbying groups for hoteliers/etc, rather than a real concern for the local residents…

touristhotspot• 4 years ago

I would rather we banned short-term AirBNB types alongside neo-vagabond car campers. The last thing I need to is to wonder what no-goodness is going on outside my stoop.

tgv• 4 years ago

AirBnB should be banned indeed. No good has come of it, and it was predictable. The original investors got a ton of money out of it, and some landlords probably did well, but the rest has to suffer the nuisance and the extra pressure on the housing market.

justin66• 4 years ago

The last thing I need to is to wonder what no-goodness is going on outside my stoop.

There could be ne'er-do-wells congregating out there. Or, heaven forfend, there could be ruffians!

gausswho• 4 years ago

Booking.com is a $75 billion giant headquartered in Amsterdam.

synu• 4 years ago

Why would the locals be happy with too many party tourists, but only as long as they sleep in their cars out in front of their houses and not in hotels? I’m not following the connection.

adrianb• 4 years ago

I found it suspicious that it mentions "sleeping in cars" which shouldn't be needed for day trips as most places in the country are at most 3 hours drive from Amsterdam and places in Belgium and Germany can be reached that fast as well.

Day trip means people return home at night, not that they sleep in the cars.

twelve40• 4 years ago

so you come to get smashed and/or high, and then drive home for several hours immediately after that?

afavour• 4 years ago

I don't think you need conspiracy to explain why locals don't want people sleeping in cars. For one, cars don't have toilets. It's going to lead to an increase in people urinating/defecating on the street.

lestergrinspoon2• 4 years ago

This campaign certainly looks like it is heavily influenced by the prestige Hotel Groups of Amsterdam .

Gentrification is in its final stages in the red light area, one last demographic they want to kick out and then the land and hotels can be purchased at a knock down prices.

It is clear the initial targets of the 'stay away vision' are the brits, doubtful that any of them drive to amsterdam and sleep in cars . But they are a good scapegoat now we are not in the EU, easy to blame them for now.

ajsnigrutin• 4 years ago

Maybe concentrating all the "fun stuff" in one street in one city in one country is not a good thing at all.

Legalizing (and regulating, especially health-wise) prostitution and marijuana in other countries would solve many of those problems, and regulation would solve many of other problems around prostitution and drugs (mostly crime-related).

muzz• 4 years ago

Or maybe concentrating it that way makes the rest of the country a lot nicer to live in

dylan604• 4 years ago

I love The Wire's version of this with Hamsterdam.

LeonM• 4 years ago

Most problems with 'troublesome' visitors in Amsterdam comes from drug tourism.

Few things to understand here:

- Drugs are illegal in the Netherlands

- Marijuana is 'tolerated' by law enforcement, meaning it can be sold by shops, within certain rules.

- The use of drugs is not illegal per se. If someone ODs, you can call an ambulance and no questions will be asked.

- Dealing drugs (with the exception of Marijuana in regulated shops) is illegal and punishable.

As a Dutch resident, I have never understood why so many (mostly American) tourists visit The Netherlands just to use drugs in Amsterdam.

It has come to a point where cab drivers are now known to offer you drugs as soon as you arrive at the airport (this is highly illegal).

Drug tourists cause many problems and feeds the criminal system. I think it is a good thing Amsterdam is finally cracking down on drug tourism.

nicoburns• 4 years ago

Interestingly, all of the above except "meaning it can be sold by shops" is also true in the UK (level of tolerance may depend on how you're otherwise perceived by law enforcement including racial profiling, etc, but I've seen people walk up to police officers and smoke a joint in their face and they've not done anything beyond take it off them and give them a verbal warning). I guess being able to walk into a shop and buy it rather than having to find a dealer makes it quite a different experience overall though.

trasz3• 4 years ago

Covid moved much of the trade to internet; its easier to use littlebiggy than to find an actual live vendor on a street.

gravitate• 4 years ago

As a Dutch resident, I have never understood why so many (mostly American) tourists visit The Netherlands just to use drugs in Amsterdam

If it was legal in their home country we wouldn't have drug tourism. Amsterdam would be just any other European city. It's the allure of being able to consume cannabis in a cafe that is simply irresistible, and a privilege.

As a non-Netherlands resident, I think the city takes it for granted that cannabis is legal-but-regulated and we shouldn't be so judgemental of tourists who otherwise have to obtain cannabis from the sometimes murky criminal underworld, and risk getting arrested or being sold low-quality weed, or worse: risk getting contaminated weed laced with synthetic opioids.

cr18952• 4 years ago

tourists who otherwise have to obtain cannabis from the sometimes murky criminal underworld

This 100% exists in Amsterdam, just abstracted one layer by the absurd tolerance policy where coffeeshops are allowed to sell to people but the product just magically appears in the shop. Supply is still a fully a criminal underworld.

poulsbohemian• 4 years ago

As a Dutch resident, I have never understood why so many (mostly American) tourists visit The Netherlands just to use drugs in Amsterdam.

I think back to interviews Frank Zappa gave in the 1980s where he talked about how the "sexualization" happening in American music, movies, etc was really titillation, IE: in a sense, Americans were so repressed and so juvenile that anything resembling sex, drugs, and rock and roll were too much to handle. Where I live in WA, marijuana has been legal for a number of years now to the point that it's passé. But, if you are a young college student from one of the more repressed states and you go on your study abroad where marijuana is legal and there are barely clothed women in the red windows, it's pretty big stuff.

When we took the kids to Amsterdam a few years ago, we walked through the red light district on a late afternoon. Was tamer than I recalled from 25 years ago when I was a college student - I can see where it's more of a burden to Amsterdam than a bonus, but I guess it lures in a few more tourist dollars.

greggarious6• 4 years ago

As a Dutch resident, I have never understood why so many (mostly American) tourists visit The Netherlands just to use drugs in Amsterdam.

because for a long time if you used them in america you'd be hit with a misdemeanor and ruin your life, or risk death. any interaction with the police in USA risks death.

I can't tell you why harder things, but we're told in film and media it's a place you can buy cannabis and use it without hassle.

It wasn't until I did a walking tour that I learned it's more decriminalized than legal, and I sympathize... they should do it like in Colorado and actually test the THC percent etc not just say "here's a space cake a gram of cannabis went into".

joenot4432• 4 years ago

Amsterdam's perception as a 'party city' is a funny one to me. I guess the lax drug laws are to blame, making it easy and legal for folks to try things they otherwise wouldn't.

The red light district pretty tame, lots of neon cops and families. The 'coffee' shops are a fun vibe, but coming from a legal country it's nothing world changing. Fun way to meet people though.

Prague, Budapest, Instanbul, Berlin, even Belgrade have a party scene I'd describe as wilder and edgier. In Amsterdam, I recall lots of unimpressed bachelor parties and American college kids, not really an authentic Euro party scene one imagines. A wonderful city and one of my favorites to visit during the day, but if the desired highlight of your visit is nightlife, there are much better and cheaper options.

greggarious6• 4 years ago

I was very vocal that they shouldn't make the "coffeeshops" Dutch only, but that was before widespread legalization elsewhere. I remember seeing a lot of people pissing and shitting in places other than toilets and worse, with the attitude they could just get on a train and never come back and the police wouldn't come after them.

(In America, crossing the border like that is less effective.)

Prague, Budapest, Instanbul, Berlin, even Belgrade have a party scene I'd describe as wilder and edgier.

But in those cities if you act out, you'll be punched out. Amsterdam seemed to have a lot of people who can't handle ambiguity, hence needing to literally go into the weed store with weed and literally go to the sex worker store with a sex worker in the window.

(I don't pay for sex, but as a humanist if that trade is going to happen I'd rather it be legal so folks have recourse if abused... it troubles me when it's warped from something done in desparation by the first generation into something glamorous.)

I feel bad for Dutch people. It's also got great coffee shops (for just espresso), museums, parks... it's like there's two cities in one.

I mean look at the article:

This latest round of proposed measures includes initiatives targeting troublesome tourist behavior, such as limiting the number of river cruises; implementing earlier closing times for bars, clubs and window brothels; and banning cannabis smoking in certain parts of the city.

I was under the impression you should only doing it in the shops, and are risking a ticket or worse if you do it out of the park where it bothers people?

I feel bad since I was a bit wild myself, in the get drunk and be loud sense... but dear lord they're absolutely right to not want a bunch of 19 year olds re-enacting Eurotrip, people don't act antisocial in say, Prague or Paris at the level they do in AMS, but both have sex work and drugs. It's like the European Las Vegas, in that people confuse respect for privacy and autonomy with a free pass to do whatever they want.

PS: The Red Light district, once you're not near the windows, is quite beautiful and there's a lot of small shops and bars that are well run. It's literally like two streets that are "extreme", and the issue IMHO is the type of guy who comes to treat the window girls like zoo animals, not sex work per se.

Anyways, sorry for the wall of text -- I'm ill, and coping by pounding sudafed and water and posting on the internet since apparently antibiotics won't cure this cold virus, and it makes me sad as an autistic person seeing how badly people mess up on purpose when the entire time I was in the country I was petrified I'd offend people.

TL;DR:Some tourists are assholes it's fine to not want them showing up.

nullcaution• 4 years ago

in the country I was petrified I'd offend people.

How so? I generally feel Dutch people are pretty patient.

HWR_142• 4 years ago

and are risking a ticket

Eh, if you are leaving the country soon, does a ticket matter? Are they going to extradite you for a 25 euro fine?

trilbyglens• 4 years ago

Prague resident here. Hell ya people act unsocial here. The Brits and Germans specifically. Prague has replaced Amsterdam as the euro stag party destination for sure. Cops are very lax here and while not legal, weed is highly tolerated.

com2• 4 years ago

Amsterdam resident in the Red Light District (de Wallen) here.

The tourists are a drag, as mentioned, they piss and poop and vomit all over the place. They decrease trade for the working women and people of other genders in the windows. My brilliant neighbourhood pizzeria closed and was replaced by a Nutella store.

But: most of this is driven by the cash-only bars and the evening “supermarkets” that still sell booze under the counter. Bars that aren’t responsible for street noise, antisocial behaviour or mountains of trash on the street every day.

Get the alcohol situation under control - booze only served to people indoors or seated outdoors. Booze sellers not obeying the law closed down permanently.

But there’s too much money in beer and Desperados, so they’re going to move the working women out from their relatively safe neighbourhood, cut down canal cruises? What?

Get more people enjoying what is a lovely, unique and above all surprisingly real neighbourhood that like it or not is dependent on tourism.

Or accelerate gentrification while the streets are washed every night with vomit in the meantime until rich folk complain too much to their buddies in the city government.

The antisocial situation is not people who’ve snorted chalk dust or taken placebo drugs, or eaten a space muffin. It’s excessive drinking and a culture of impunity of the bars.

pyinstallwoes• 4 years ago

What is a neon cop?

quux• 4 years ago

I think there’s a missing comma between those words

googlryas• 4 years ago

They wear high visibility vests

joenot4432• 4 years ago

Just a regular officer wearing high vis gear. Helpful when you're drunk and lost I'm sure, but sort of an eye sore against the otherwise moody atmosphere.

fiat_fandango3• 4 years ago

After visiting amsterdam this summer, most of the city was honestly pretty disgusting. The architecture is beautiful as is taking a river cruise or viewing other cities around NL, however a lot of the central city just smelled like stale beer, was packed with sketchy guys trying to sell me coccaine and other illegal drugs. Prostitutes walking around was far from a "cultural element" it was just an area filled with weird euros looking for favors.

Food was generally really disappointing, however grocery stores / delivery apps were incredibly useful. The most annoying thing to me was how certain neighborhoods flat out do not accept Visa / Mastercard. Basically every other developed nation accepts Visa, I was annoyed and decided to not go back to areas where they literally couldn't take my money. That said, PUBLIC TRANSIT IN NL IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE! But I don't for a second believe many ppl don't get TBI's from bike crashes without helmets.

TomJansen• 4 years ago

The Dutch bicycle-network is safe enough to not have to wear bike helmets. We have a really nice system of seperation of car/bicycle/pedestrian traffic. In addition, a lot of tought is given to design roads in such a way that car traffic automatically adapts to the correct and safe speed that is needed.

fiat_fandango3• 4 years ago

Bikes are great, I commute on a bike in a US city with decent infrastructure. I still wear a helmet every single time I get on a bike.

Even low speed crashes or encounters with pedestrians can result in serious head injuries.

yladiz2• 4 years ago

The most annoying thing to me was how certain neighborhoods flat out do not accept Visa / Mastercard. Basically every other developed nation accepts Visa, I was annoyed and decided to not go back to areas where they literally couldn't take my money.

Not only in Netherlands - you would also experience this in Germany, for example. In many parts of Europe, even in their respective capital, you’ll find that many places don’t accept cards and you need cash. If Germany is any indication it’s becoming more common to accept cards but it’s still pretty easy to find places that either only take cash or only take cards above some minimum like 10 or 20 euros.

fiat_fandango3• 4 years ago

It was weird, because the geographic delineation was seemingly random. I could travel by train three hours outside of Amsterdam and encounter zero issues with Apple Pay or VISA. But certain neighborhoods in Amsterdam, especially De Pijp seemed to have a militant stance against non dutch payment processors.

cr18952• 4 years ago

It’s not really comparable to Germany. Almost everywhere in NL accepts Maestro cards (PIN) or whatever (sometimes not even accepting cash). It’s specifically credit cards that are sometimes less useful.

em500• 4 years ago

The most annoying thing to me was how certain neighborhoods flat out do not accept Visa / Mastercard. Basically every other developed nation accepts Visa, I was annoyed and decided to not go back to areas where they literally couldn't take my money.

This is mostly legacy from earlier decades, when VISA/MasterCard would charge around 1 to 3% of the transaction value (and AMEX even higher), whereas debit card fees (processed on the Maestro network, owned by MasterCard) was around a flat €0.10 or so. Since pretty all domestic clients had a bank issued Maestro debit card, where was very little incentive to accept Visa/MasterCard, except for specific merchants (hotels, larger restaurants, car rentals). For most of the country debit cards still work fine, but in tourist-heavy Amsterdam (probably the least Dutch city in the Netherlands) this creates a lot of friction.

Nowadays Visa/MasterCard fees in the EU are capped (I believe at around 0.3% plus some minimum) so the fees are somewhat less outrageous, and acceptance is a lot higher. But on average credit card fees are still significantly higher than debit card fees, there are still many holdouts.

Doxin2• 4 years ago

There's also the thing where basically no one here uses credit cards at all, let alone use them at shops. Accepting them requires a bunch of infrastructure for a quite small group of people.

gammalost• 4 years ago

Idk sounds like a regular large city to me.

Most of the places aren't for you as a tourist. It's for the people that actually live there. I visited and kept to the tourist parts, had a good time

mbg721• 4 years ago

It should be pretty obvious who's a low-info vice tourist and who's a geeky Dutchophile. I can't imagine those circles intersecting very much.

lestergrinspoon2• 4 years ago

The Dutch are amazing people known worldwide for their liberalism, tolerance and pragmatism .

To generalise The British ( i am one) are not known to be any of the above traits . But the Dutch have shown everyone worldwide that Cannabis prohibition is a total failure , this is commendable and other countries have followed the Dutch example.

It's a shame that the Dutch are using the British as an example and want them to 'Stay away' the brits cant help it , they have been brainwashed for all their lives by the elite and the right wing that cannabis is bad and alcohol is acceptable, this is a bad mix for the average brit tourist in the Netherlands but the pull factor is too great for the brits due to the close proximity of our nations .

But I think we are an easy scapegoat and deflection for the Dutch elite now we have left the EU, gentrification is OK now in the red light , the final nail in the coffin but at least lets be honest that is what's happening here . For circa 600 years this part of the city has always been 'anything goes' until now because of property owners that want to benefit from sky high capital values of their assets. The Dutch government are only too happy to oblige obviously and the cannabis and alcohol consuming brits are an easy target , they certainly won't get anyone in our government on this side of the water arguing on their behalf.

Ps I've been visiting Amsterdam for 20+ years spent at least £60k on the delights of amsterdam over those years and that does not include solely Cannabis and I don't consume alcohol and ive never felt the need to piss anywhere other than an expensive hotel room .

Amsterdam's 'stay away' campaign targets troublesome visitors

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