A hookup app for the emotionally mature

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/feeld-dating-app-sex

by mitchbob • 4 years ago

50 56 4 years ago

newyorker.com

mitchbob• 4 years ago

Archived: https://archive.ph/0uUmN

throw_xxx_rated10• 4 years ago

Throwaway account for obvious reasons

I'm on Feeld and wow the headline for article is a weird take.

Compared to Tinder and Bumble there aren't many people (which isn't surprising) and it's very explicitly about non-vanilla sex, and I would never have thought that "emotionally mature" would characterize the people on it.

I'm in my 40s and I have trouble finding people my age. It's ok if you want to find a rope bunny or something like that though.

When I was in a relationship we tried it for threesomes and TBH had more luck with that on Tinder.

Also the "cores" concept is just strange. Why did they choose the cities they did? In Australia you can see who is in Melbourne but not Sydney (And Sydney is kind of an iconic gay city, which has a lot of cross over into kink).

throw_xxx_rated10• 4 years ago

Having said that - while I remain critical of the headline - the article is quite good (hey it's a NewYorker article so it's long).

I do think it reflects the author's experience a lot though. It doesn't reflect what I've seen when I use the app.

throw_xxx_rated10• 4 years ago

Someone asked how it compares to FetLife but deleted their question.

My response was:

Many more swingers.

I've never tried to use FetLife as a dating app. But in my city I recognize many people across the both (so yes a lot of people into kink, which often doesn't really overlap much with the swinger community).

majormajor• 4 years ago

My take on the "emotionally mature" after the article + your comment is "mature enough to come out and state what you want if you want something non-vanilla."

Never used Feeld, not in the market at the moment, but I never saw anyone on Tinder who put any kinks up front.

phkahler• 4 years ago

> "mature enough to come out and state what you want if you want something non-vanilla."

That can be a sign of vulnerability, or something more along the lines of defiance. One is more mature, the other is quite the opposite.

superhnthrowlol2• 4 years ago

Well clearly I need a throw away also. Also an Australian in late 40's.

There was a golden age a while back using websites such as AMM for hookups and threesomes, and Fetlife was unusually great for kink. I basically just listed myself as a male into needle play (with equipment) and LOTS of girls actually came to me. I would get messages asking if my lab was real and when they could visit. Which is a completely contrast to anything you'd see today.

Fetlife really died. The vast majority of female accounts have some variation of "if you'd like to talk to me more, subscribe to my Onlyfans". I opened my inbox today and clicked on the profiles of girls that messaged me years ago, they've all left the site, and you absolutely can't replicate that experience on Tinder.

throw_xxx_rated10• 4 years ago

Um this is the golden age right now.

I'm a middle age balding white guy and I can find more women who want me to top them on Tinder (let alone Feeld!) than I can handle. If you don't believe me, post a pic of some shibari and see what happens (assuming you have normal Tinder profile with face pics and you don't seem too weird). I'm sure you'd find the same thing.

Fetlife is in trouble because of the combination of Facebook (which you can find groups for if your kink is less challenging that needle play!) and OF which causes so much spamming.

potsandpans• 4 years ago

Not even going to make a throwaway. was intrigued by the article, dled it, set up a profile. Was excited to experience this sexual liberation where I could perhaps be an atypical cis guy...

It's just tinder for couples and kinks. The rest is extremely oversold. Glad the author got so much value from it, but what a disappointment!

dvt• 4 years ago

Let me first say: impeccable article from The New Yorker. It's the only mainstream bastion of proper editing and spelling left (maybe The Economist, too). I don't think I've ever found a typo in their articles; as opposed to CNN/WaPo/NYT/FOX where I find typos and grammar errors routinely (even on their front pages).

Thursday. I describe it to my friends as “the grownup hookup app.” By “grownup,” I mean not only that its users are above a certain age but also that they favor a kind of maturity and decorum; by “hookup,” I mean that the app facilitates not romance but sex, broadly defined. It is not the place to find your “down-to-earth, no-drama girlfriend” or your “partner in crime.”

How exactly does this translate into "emotional maturity?" Sounds like the writer is trying to ascribe some kind of moral superiority to enjoying non-vanilla casual sex. I mean, that's cool I guess, and no judgment, but from where I stand, dealing with bills, conflict resolution, changing diapers, attending PTA meetings, having to put kids through college, etc. probably requires way more "emotional maturity" than hooking up on a dating app.

But maybe that's just me.

Not having a partner and not having kids may mean that you have more sporadic sexual encounters with people you do not know very well.

I get that there's an agenda at play here (the very next sentence gets into abortion), but this is provably false. Young people are having less sex than ever[1]. In fact, many psychologists and sociologists are worried about a potential population bust. The root cause is unknown.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-ame...

mise_en_place• 4 years ago

It's more like it requires an emotional apathy or detachment. At least that's what I've heard from my friends who engage in such casual encounters.

pjbeam• 4 years ago

I took that turn of phrase to mean something akin to the detachment she felt/feels to life. The whole article read to me like an ode to post post modern drifting in and out of superficial encounters. I ended up reading the whole thing while waiting to see if there was going to be a prod issue tonight. I'm definitely not the New Yorker's target audience.

pseudalopex• 4 years ago

Sounds like the writer is trying to ascribe some kind of moral superiority to enjoying non-vanilla casual sex.

Sounds more like contrast to other hookup apps.

jfabre• 4 years ago

A Hookup App for the Emotionally Jaded

nico• 4 years ago

The root cause is unknown.

Anecdata: My grandpa had 9 kids. When asked for the reason, he would say that in his times there was no TV.

Now we have computers, tablets, phones and thousands of ways of consuming content.

Almost everyone is addicted to their phones.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we are just having a lot less human interaction, because we are preferring our devices.

In fact right now I’m writing this comment while I have family around me to interact with. And they are all on their screens as well. We are not interacting, even though some of us are in the same room.

Edit: removed my uninformed comment about the Uvalde police officer

lazide• 4 years ago

In many ways, relationships are 'paid for' with attention and time.

We're spending most of that attention and time elsewhere now, and so relationships... just don't happen more often.

rootusrootus• 4 years ago

One of the Uvalde officers was checking his phone

The one whose wife, a teacher, was injured and dying? That doesn’t seem like a case of phone addiction.

SPBesui• 4 years ago

One of the Uvalde officers was checking his phone with an ongoing shooting right next to him.

If you’re talking about the one with the Punisher lock screen, I’m pretty sure his wife was contacting him telling him she’d been shot and was dying. AFAIK he wasn’t just “checking his phone” out of boredom.

7speter• 4 years ago

I really don't think the summation of human interaction is the number of kids you end up having with a mate/partner/spouse, but maybe I'm wrong.

throw_xxx_rated10• 4 years ago

Anecdata: My grandpa had 9 kids. When asked for the reason, he would say that in his times there was no TV.

You realize this is of course a joke? Every country in the world decreases birthrate as their socio-economic stability increases, because in part they no longer have to rely on having lots of kids to take care of them when they are old.

The rest of your comment goes almost exactly against the story that is linked? That is about how technology is making it a lot easier for people to connect in person?

It frustrates me that this thoughtless conservatism goes unchallenged on HN.

bradlys4• 4 years ago

Root cause unknown but we know where people are meeting more and more. It's 1) online dating and 2) bars/clubs. Everything else individually is <10% of couples and keeps only getting smaller. Physical attractiveness is about all that matters in those venues. Your average man is not considered physically attractive to almost any women these days. So, is it a surprise that sex is going down when the only ways of meeting are relying on physical attraction are going up?

presentation• 4 years ago

I respect nonheteronormativity but do get annoyed by how people get on a high horse about it and talk like they’re a higher evolved life form as a result of not being straight. I can’t be the only one who’s irritated by it.

rayiner• 4 years ago

From the article:

This was one way to make my unwanted future tolerable, to at least make it interesting for myself: to pretend that there was such a possibility as a new kind of person in a new kind of world.

I gotta say, the self awareness is refreshing.

brigandish• 4 years ago

Let me first say: impeccable article from The New Yorker. It's the only mainstream bastion of proper editing and spelling left (maybe The Economist, too). I don't think I've ever found a typo in their articles; as opposed to CNN/WaPo/NYT/FOX where I find typos and grammar errors routinely (even on their front pages).

The Guardian has the nickname Grauniad (coined by Private Eye, a far better publication) because of its frequent spelling errors. I had a girlfriend who became a sub-editor, and she was told not to use a spellchecker because it would lead to negligence and hence, mistakes. I understand their logic but I think it's wrong, just use all the tools at your disposal and be diligent.

Invictus0• 4 years ago

I agree with throw_xxx_rated, very weird title. I tried Feeld and there are basically no vanilla people on it. You are pressed to fit yourself by one of the many new-age hyperspecific sexual orientations and fetish boxes and introduce yourself by your sexual interests. Rather than a "emotionally mature hookup app", I would dub it "Fetlife for people under 35".

There's a certain group of people that prefers to define themselves by their sexuality these days. Good for them, I don't care. I don't think this is "emotionally mature" though nor is it ideal for a dating app. Yes sex is important, but no, it is not the first thing I want to know about you, nor is it something we need to be broadcasting to the world. In turn, many professionals on the app don't show their face because they don't want to be seen on Feeld, while others fill their profile with photos of them elaborately tied up in shibari. A weird dichotomy for sure, and I stopped using the app shortly after I started (there are barely any people on the app anyway, and I live in a major US city).

DaveFr2• 4 years ago

Looking ahead, Fulford said, Feeld might expand to connecting people in physical spaces and at events as well as online. “We don’t see ourselves just as a dating company,” he said but, rather, as “something that potentially looks like a media or network platform company.” It’s a nice idea, but making Feeld too much about figuring out who you are and less about already knowing might alienate a user base that is tired of having to explain itself. Its members just want to meet others who have already been to the rave, or the dungeon, or the dark room, or the play space, and who don’t need the rules of engagement to be spelled out.

This is a company that in it's pre-Eternal-September era and might not realize it. I hope they figure out how to retain their magic.

0xBABAD00C• 4 years ago

What should they do differently were they to realize it's post-Eternal-September?

DaveFr2• 4 years ago

If they are in a post-Eternal-September situation, they follow the Facebook.com path: grow at all costs, then coast and squeeze revenue until the last wave of users leave. (FB's TAM is "everyone", so it's lucrative. Most others have a smaller market).

If they are in a pre-Eternal-September situation and they want to avoid Eternal September, that's different. Then, they should work to slow user growth, improve onboarding, and have some moderation. The goal is to integrate new users slowly, so they buy into the culture before they change it. It's difficult.

throwaway_oil• 4 years ago

I'm a heavy feeld user, loved the article. Author has some rose tint to their glasses, but feeld is excellent - at least in NYC.

As with any dating app, local userbase is key, so other locations may be far worse.

Some other commenters have doubts about "emotional maturity;" I think feeld encourages users to be their most authentic selves, and that takes some maturity. If you don't have it, and try to play normal dating games, you won't last there.

AMA for a heavy user, I guess? I'm probably an 8, cis tall white man in his late 20s. Mostly looking for consistent hookups, mostly women.

falcolas• 4 years ago

The emotional maturity version of the Dunning-Kruger effect will eventually turn this into a cesspool of angry incels.

“Finally, a place where I will be appreciated and stand out from those other morons.”

kwertyoowiyop• 4 years ago

We are in luck, angryincels.com is available! Let’s do a startup.

pwython• 4 years ago

"choose from among twenty different categories of gender and sexuality."

And just when I thought I was "emotionally mature" at 40, I can't help but giggle at that sentence. Are there really 20 different genders and such nowadays? Are these filters "kinks" or have I lost touch with the current state of identity labels?

at_a_remove3• 4 years ago

You want to really blow your mind, check out the identities at yaygender.net. Go through them and try to imagine people having common understandings of these selections such that information is communicated by which is chosen.

What am I supposed to do with "woman" vs "womyn" vs "womon"? How about "differently-gendered" vs "metagender" vs "metamorph"? "Transgenderist" or "Trangenderalist"? Gender outlaw against gender pirate? Do these identities communicate or do they confuse?

These aren't genders, they're portions of GUIDs.

gozmike2• 4 years ago

This is the first article I read on feeld/3nder that really resonates with me.

Dimo and Ana were the first paying clients of the last startup I co-founded, Smooch.io, that would go on to be acquired by Zendesk. I even had a chance to meet Dimo on a trip to London.

Unlike many of the hundreds of other brash founders that we sold our platform to, this team was different. The level of maturity, emotionally and otherwise, that the pair demonstrated was astounding. They poured themselves into this product and its very much an artistic creation first and foremost. Using the app, you can sense that real people, with real feelings, expressed thoughtfulness and empathy like few other builders of the era.

They've since moved on from Smooch/Zendesk, and I've moved on from it as well, but seeing their work covered here leaves me feeling really nostalgic for those days gone by. They (and their love for one another) really built one of the few remaining places left in the digital world that are delightfully special.

gozmike2• 4 years ago

Funny story I'll pile on...

One of the first places we showed our product was at a support software conference in vegas where we were invited to share a booth with a few other startups as part of an innovation thing.

I had feeld (then called 3nder) running as a demo in the booth to showcase how our platform could create really cool mobile help experiences. One of the people I demo'd too went full fundamentalist Christian on me and asked why I would show him an application based on the devil's work, that it was sick and disgusting that I would be proud of 3nder's patronage of our services, and a bunch of other nonsense...

I wonder sometimes if that man was actually on the app and worried his profile would show up due to the proximity :)

bradlys4• 4 years ago

Title is kinda garbage. What Hinge is to OkCupid - Feeld is to FetLife. That's what I've gathered from the queer people in my life.

I find these articles written by (mostly) women who get such easy access to sex to be a bit... cringey. It's often written in such a way that clearly shows a privilege that is basically completely unknown to them. Akin to being rich and being unaware most people can't just ask their parents for a new Mercedes. There's always some writing about a man or men but it's always about tall white men. This article is no different. It's just... cringey and completely unaware. I expect no different from a New Yorker article, tbh - as its entire employee base is this type of persona. (Blissfully unaware)

david38• 4 years ago

You are correct. Some young reasonably attractive woman “explores” and what a surprise? There are tons of guys willing to sleep with her, even under X, Y, Z conditions.

Much of the publishing industry is filled with hopeful women backed by family money trying to break into the industry. For most it pays very little, but must confer some sort of status? Find your nitch, be bold, be aggressive, ???, profit?

throw_xxx_rated10• 4 years ago

I'm a pretty average looking white guy and I'd say you are completely wrong in your assessment.

Have you actually tried this?

It's true that women get a lot more approaches a lot quicker then men. But this whole "oh no I'm a guy the world is against me" is nonsense. You need to seem interesting in some way.

bradlys4• 4 years ago

Of course I have. I’m an above average man in many ways but I’ve lived in Seattle and SF primarily for most of my “dating” years where men heavily outnumber women. Unfortunately add on - I am neither white nor tall. Nor muscular nor good looking. I am completely average in many ways superficially but well within the 1% in many others.

I’m not sure if you live in the US but it’s incredibly competitive here for young men. You’re also in your 40s. So, your time might’ve been different as online dating wasn’t as prolific/normalized in your 20s as it was in my 20s. When I was in my 20s, close to 40% of people met through online dating. On top of this - sex for men in their 20s plummeted in my 20s while in yours - it didn’t suffer at all.

Also - I take “average looking white guy” with a grain of salt. I’ve seen 6’4” models describe themselves as average in person and online.

dTal• 4 years ago

But this whole "oh no I'm a guy the world is against me" is nonsense. You need to seem interesting in some way.

Quite so. Women on the other hand don't need to seem interesting to get as much casual sex as they can handle. Which was the point.

FooBarBizBazz2• 4 years ago

The best way for a Western man to experience what it's like to be such a person, is to spend some time in the third world.

Analogous to the ubiquitous harassment and "male gaze" encountered by people like the author (because dudes want their bodies), you will experience ubiquitous (and aggressive) harassment and "third world gaze" -- because everybody wants your money. "I'm not just a pair of boobs" becomes "I'm not just a walking ATM", and so on.

You will continue to want to go out in public, but you will also want to find "safe spaces" -- expat hangouts, good hotels... places that keep out the riffraff. At some point you just need to be able to hang out by the pool without somebody trying to rip you off in their tuk-tuk or sell you a suit.

Or, say, go to your yoga class before making your way to the job from which it's too much political hassle to ever fire you.

Whatever. Chronos crushes us all. "I am become time", says Vishnu. She'll learn, eventually.

at_a_remove3• 4 years ago

Check the people she talked to in depth, and her: all female or femme-leaning in identity. I know it's not a "study" as such but there's a sampling bias going on there.

I would like to hear from some ordinary, average guys on the app.

klipt• 4 years ago

I wonder if the ordinary, average guys realize they get more responses if they identify as ... not guys?

at_a_remove3• 4 years ago

"Everyone, feel free to be yourself! Uh, but not you."

That's the sort of idea where you realize if anyone involved had a sense of self-awareness they'd find the result painful, but instead they'll continue on, oblivious.

usrn• 4 years ago

As someone who used to be a lot more promiscuous: I'm pretty sure hooking up is the opposite of emotional maturity. I love Seinfeld (the old TV show) because it actually does show this. The main characters (at least Seinfeld and Elaine) have this kind of superficial maturity but you pull them apart and they're actually very childish. The show ends with them and their friends in jail with more or less nothing to show for their lives. For what the show was it has a surprisingly strong moral lesson.

badrabbit• 4 years ago

Psychonaut,eco-sexual,digisexual. Lots of new words, I would love to learn about these people (not their sex stuff, but them as a person).

The ability to "explore" like this and western sexuality in general, I wonder if it is a product of better resource scarcity (due to capitalism or whatever economic force)? Would this be possible under conditions of economic strain or poverty, I don't mean relative to others in a society but at a global scale. Food, health care, employment opportunities, time-saving technologies,etc... to the point where universal basic income is a serious topic. Does all this empower sexual exploration? I think so.

FooBarBizBazz2• 4 years ago

Lol, within the first paragraph, we have the words "heteronormative", "prosecco", and a reference to 1Q84.

This is a lifestyle ad-piece. And what a bullshit lifestyle! Does she not even know that 1Q84 is Haruki Murakami's worst book?

A hookup app for the emotionally mature

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