Hybrid cars on the decline

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/30/autos/hybrid_car_sales/index.htm?iid=HP_Highlight&hpt=hp_c2

by kirpekar • 15 years ago

16 40 15 years ago

money.cnn.com

rbranson• 15 years ago

I like how the article basically says the Prius does very well because it's so conspicuous. Sounds about right.

xpose20002• 15 years ago

It's a down economy, and a hybird costs more than a 'regular' car. Hybrid's also have the potential to be confusing, like how many REAL miles can the Leaf do? I still don't trust batteries to keep a full charge after 6 months, just ask my cell phone. (I realize there are other hybrids, just an example).

Plus those regular cars do a lot better on gas nowadays than they ever have.

PakG1• 15 years ago

The Leaf isn't a hybrid... I understand your point, but the Leaf isn't a hybrid.

xpose20002• 15 years ago

An excellent point. haha. whoops. :)

icefox3• 15 years ago

"Hybrid's also have the potential to be confusing" (from the grandparent comment)

capkutay• 15 years ago

I'm not buying a car until it's fuel efficient AND drives itself. Looking at you, Google.

ph0rque2• 15 years ago

My compromise: I'll by a used fuel-efficient car plus a driverless-conversion kit when they become commercially available, should be cheaper that way.

veyron2• 15 years ago

Has anyone done a real break-even analysis on these cars (based on real life performance numbers), including maintenance costs and assuming various fuel prices? Even with subsidies, my hybrid-driving friends end up shelling out more money than I do.

Every statistic I've seen is concocted (including the chevy volt's "infinite" mpg claims way back when).

donw• 15 years ago

Given that your username is 'veyron', I assume that your hybrid-driving friends have shockingly aggressive driving habits.

veyron2• 15 years ago

Haha they are stop and go drivers in NYC. I'd presume they would have an edge especially given the poor fuel economy of most cars when sitting in traffic

icefox3• 15 years ago

I am one of those in the article. A few years ago I needed a new car, running the math it wasn't a fantastic deal and I could get a much nicer car (performance, looks, style, sound, features) for the same total price. I also said "maybe the next one with be a hybrid/electric".

pkulak6• 15 years ago

My math said the opposite, actually. Factoring in the $50 (minimum) a month saved in gas, and my payment was about the same for a Prius or a Corolla/Civic. Plus, fluctuations in the price of gas effect me far less and in the end, my car is still worth more than a non-hybrid car, if I were to sell it.

A car is an investment. A lousy one, but you still can't think of it only based total price vs features. You have to consider depreciation and operating costs more than upfront price.

rorrr• 15 years ago

Did you factor in the battery replacement?

icefox3• 15 years ago

Back in 2008 when I bought my car the used Prius's were going for almost the price of a new one. This seemed like a short term fad of near zero depreciation and unwise to bet that it would stay that way. The Prius was really the only game in town at the time, gas prices were high, but it was clear that there would be plenty of new hybrids in the coming years.

After hunting around for less than the price as a Prius (used or new) I got a barely used 6 speed manual G35 with all of the bells and whistles (15K miles, very clean engine, good find). The fact that it only gets ~22MPG in the peek of expensive gas might have been part of the reason I got it for so cheap. There is no debate that a G35 beats the pants of of a Civic or Corolla any day. Doing the math of $500 savings in gas a year I still have a few more years before it would have been cheaper to buy a Prius based upon the price difference.

I have had no garage work on my G35 other than the standard oil change etc. To make things simple I will assume that the Prius would have been just as good. (How often do you have to change the battery?)

I just looked up on kbb A brand new 2008 Prius would only be worth ~$400 more than my used G35 if I sold it today. So the math no matter how I look at it worked out for me and I got a nicer car to drive the past few years.

But the real lesson I have seen over and over which is that any time someone runs the math they have different variables. If I were to buy a car today the used Prius's have actually dropped in price so that estimate is completely different that a few years ago, gas is now cheaper, I probably couldn't find that G35 again, and now there are other hybrids to compare against.

a2tech• 15 years ago

I live in Ann Arbor (pretty green area) and drive a hybrid Camry so my data may be way off-but around here I see plenty of hybrids. Not as many large cars as my Camry (which btw is a fantastic vehicle only made better by being a hybrid) but loads of Priuses (Prii?) and Honda Civic hybrids. A physcian I know even drives one of those monster Toyota Sequoia hybrids.

abduhl• 15 years ago

Could you explain why being a hybrid makes the Camry better? Also, why did you pick the hybrid instead of the standard version?

noonespecial• 15 years ago

I made this choice just recently. It came down to the civic hybrid vs the standard civic. The hybrid was about $10,000 more. A quick calculation showed that I'd have to drive the hybrid 584,795 miles to break even on the extra cost at today's fuel cost.

Put another way, I only plan to keep the car to around 100,000 miles. If the hybrid cost more than $1717 above the standard, I'm losing out.

Put me in the hybrids are hype column.

RobLach• 15 years ago

I never quite understood hybrid cars other than buying them as an indirect donation to pursue hybrid technology. Hybrids are worse for the environment than regular plain-ole' ICE cars and don't really give you much of an efficiency boost.

Diesel engines are right up there with hybrids in the fuel efficiency game. Take for instance to VW Polo BlueMotion which is rated 70mpg+ Highway. The Passat BlueMotion is worse but still an impressive 57mpg+ Highway.

Also consider that some biodiesel fuels are near 100% carbon neutral (such as hemp-based biodiesels), in that they sequester as much carbon dioxide from the air as they will eventually burn into once combusted.

balinvadasz• 15 years ago

I second the vote for diesel cars/minivans. Much simpler internals than hybrids with comparable (if not better fuel economy). I'd also venture to guess that the total environmental impact including the manufacturing processes is much less too. I wish VW/Audi/BMW/Mercedes sold a decent minivan with a diesel engine here in the US and I'd be a buyer. The VW Sharan gets 43MPG+ (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/07/sharan-20100701.html) It's no coincidence that nearly half of the European cars have diesel engines.

ph0rque2• 15 years ago

With a diesel-electric hybrid, the jump in fuel economy is just as dramatic: for example, the upcoming VW XL1 will get 235 mpg: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/hybrid-electric...

3am2• 15 years ago

Hey, I've heard that claim that hybrids are worse for the environment than pure internal combustion engines. Honestly I don't see how that's possible and I've never seen read anything that supports it. But I'm not an expert - do you have a source or can you explain it?

quantumhobbit• 15 years ago

Must be referring to the manufacture of the hybrids batteries. I think there was concern a while back they caused a lot of pollution. I never heard anything definitive one way or the other.

sounds2• 15 years ago

Here are some places to start. You really need to research to come to a solid conclusion (your own conclusion).

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090419130916AA...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071028204335AA...

http://www.hybridcars.com/battery-toxicity.html

steins• 15 years ago

hey.. I haven't done extensive research, but I have read several articles claiming that saying that mining the materials that go into batteries is a very very dirty process and pollutes the entire area around the mining operation, and the energy cost of producing a battery is very high.

I have a feeling that once the technology has been around for awhile it will get cleaner, but who knows...

I would love to know more if anyone else has done more research.

pkulak6• 15 years ago

Diesel is about 20% more energy dense (and corrospondingly more expensive) than petrol, so it's no great surprise that diesel cars get 20% better mileage. Besides, matching a hybrid on the freeway is not nearly as difficult as in the city. Those numbers you quoted are both highway, but both those cars get under 30 in the city.

mickt• 15 years ago

For some reason in the US diesel is more expensive than petrol/gas, see link for prices in the Boston area: http://www.bostongasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=C

I was recently in Ireland and diesel was .10c cheaper a liter.

EiZei• 15 years ago

Hybrids look even less attractive in Europe. For example a VW Golf Bluemotion consumes actually less fuel on the average with highway consumption being significantly less and top of that diesel is still slightly cheaper than gasoline. Even with a vehicle tax rebate meaning 300-500 euros less per year the Prius doesn't seem such a great buy.

wavephorm• 15 years ago

I really thought there would be more all electric cars on the roads by now. The pace of car tech is excrutiating. 5 years ago there was all hype that hybrids were just temporary transition models. And here they're still trying to sell these over-engineered luxury green cars.

Where are the affordable, small, city-oriented all electric commuting cars that would actually make a difference?

jerf• 15 years ago

"Where are the affordable, small, city-oriented all electric commuting cars that would actually make a difference?"

Two things: Batteries, and regulations. Battery technology remains obstinate, and regulations put a lower bound on how light you can make the car before it starts failing a variety of tests in exciting ways, especially collision tests.

I've seen a "car" that gets 100mpg, even at reasonable speeds (~55 mph), on straight-up gasoline. But you would not want to ride that thing into a wall at 55 mph. There was wood where you'd expect metal, for instance...

pkulak6• 15 years ago

I see at least one Nissan Leaf in Portland every day when I'm walking around downtown. They're coming, I think it's just very geographical.

pasbesoin• 15 years ago

I've continued to speculate about the signaling aspect. That is, a hybrid (specifically, a Prius) being a way to purchase a small car without looking "unsuccessful". Unfortunately, I live and work in an area where such reactions can negatively influence your ability to "get things done".

More recently, the new Mini's have started appearing, possibly as another small car that avoids undesired "signaling". They are not that cheap, and they are "fun"; small is ok, if it's "fun".

Some years back, the BMW 3 series straddled this signaling line, to some extent. It was a small, less expensive Beamer (not quite there, yet?), but it was a Beamer and also made a certain sense for the sole commuter.

Hybrid cars on the decline

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