Ask HN: AT&T Charging for FaceTime?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30150776

by ada1981 • 4 years ago

36 23 4 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I got a $750 bill for FaceTiming a bumble match in South Africa from the US.

This was over wifi and was a FaceTime call.

Everything I can read on the Internet says International FaceTime calls are always free - they are just data.

The rep I spoke with 1) refunded me the charges snd taxes. But told me as a matter of policy, if you are making an international FaceTime call via wifi, and “the wifi is slow”, AT&T will shift to data and they will detect it’s an international call and bill you as if it’s a regular international cell call.

I triple confirmed this and got it in writing from the rep.

This seems, um, criminal.

At most my wifi dropping on a FaceTime call should be a regular data useage when I’m calling from the US.

Thoughts?

johnklos• 4 years ago

FaceTime is over Internet. If AT&T is charging you for "international data", then please redact personal information and put your bill on the Internet. That would be absolutely crazy.

ada19818• 4 years ago

I Will. I have the rep saying in writing this is what they do.

They also put up no resistance when I asked for a refund for $600.

And everywhere I look I see FaceTime is free for international calling.

polack• 4 years ago

How would they know it's an international call unless Apple/FaceTime would leek metadata (like number you're calling) to AT&T?

Sure they could see that the IP you are connecting to is in Africa, but if you call a US number on a regular phone and that person happens to be in Africa you will still get charged like it's a call within the US (the one out traveling will get the extra charge). Since how would you know that person is out traveling? So how could AT&T know you're not calling a US number?

garciasn• 4 years ago

"the wifi is slow”, AT&T will shift to data and they will detect it’s an international call and bill you as if it’s a regular international cell call.

There is an option in iOS called 'Wi-Fi Assist' (Settings > Cellular > (Scroll to the bottom) > Wi-Fi Assist). It will, "automatically use cellular data when Wi-Fi connectivity is poor."

Make sure that's disabled. It should also show you how much you've used (mine is showing 522MB).

ada19818• 4 years ago

Even so shouldn't this then just be like watching Netflix or doing a zoom call? Ie, it’s just my unlimited data plan.

Them “detecting” it’s FaceTime and then billing for an international call seems sus.

joshuatalb• 4 years ago

It sounds like you have Wi-Fi Assist turned on, which does exactly what you describe. To quote what it says in my settings tab - "Automatically use mobile data when Wi-Fi connectivity is poor".

To turn it off, on your iPhone, go to:

Settings > Mobile Data > Scroll to the very bottom > Toggle off Wi-Fi Assist.

joshstrange2• 4 years ago

Yes but data is data, it doesn't matter if I use 3G/4G/5G to talk to a server down the street or across the world, I've never heard of (consumer) bandwidth billing like this.

ada19818• 4 years ago

Yes this should just be a domestic data charge, of which I am an unlimited plan holder.

I made the call via FaceTime.

joshstrange2• 4 years ago

I feel like we/you have to be missing something here. I've never heard of international data charges (in this context, traveling/roaming yes but never from US -> Elsewhere). FaceTime is just data, at worst you burned some cell data but it shouldn't matter if you are talking to a server down the street or across the world. You are sure you weren't just being charged for the data at a regular rate? If you can post a screenshot of the bill and if it says something like "International data" or similar that would help.

sergiotapia• 4 years ago

Please remove your personal information and share a screenshot of that bill. That is the kind of thing that needs to go viral online so AT&T can be shamed. I've never heard of such a thing but they are a telecom, it doesn't surprise me.

lotsofpulp2• 4 years ago

This post needs a ton of evidence, considering there is no such thing as a domestic or international FaceTime call.

ada19818• 4 years ago

If you Google “international FaceTime call” you will see a lot of entries including ones on Apple and AT&T.

What I mean in this context is that I called someone in SA from the US via FaceTime and I was billed as if I made an international voice cellular call.

Everything I’ve read says this isn’t supposed to be a thing, and the rep refunded me, but then also said to “manage future expectations” that AT&T will detect international FaceTime calls, and bill you for them (this is in writing in the notes, she did send me a less than perfect text, and I can dig out the bill and put together a notion post about it).

bruceb• 4 years ago

You can widen your location on bumble? How did you match with person in South Africa?

techthumb• 4 years ago

Good to see someone asking the important questions :)

ada19818• 4 years ago

Excellent question.

So I was driving across the country in MajikBus.co and stopped through NM.

Happened to match with a lady who had been there this fall and was planning to move back.

It was very serendipitous.

We had a lot of FaceTime calls for a month and then met up when she flew back.

Spooky232• 4 years ago

That’s how it works if you use the carrier network. I think when a patent suit changed FaceTime away from peer to peer, the carriers route all traffic through some device local to them — Remember most mobile traffic is proxied. They bill based on where it goes.

It’s not unique to AT&T.

ada19818• 4 years ago

But FaceTime is always meant to be free for international calls. If both parties have an iPhone, it’s just an internet data useage.

Them charging me for where the data packets end up is nuts. Imagine if they did that for any other web based service.

Spooky232• 4 years ago

I’m not advocating for the carriers, and share the disgust.

Remember that wireless carriers have more leeway with discriminating against certain traffic than wireline. They probably do it to cement those rights.

cosmie• 4 years ago

If it goes through as an actual Facetime call, then you aren't charged for it.

That said, it can easily fail to go through as a Facetime call and instead connect as a cellular call (either over the cell network or over wifi via Wifi Calling[1] if you have that enabled). If you then add Facetime video to the call, I'm not really sure if the cellular audio call stays active while the FT video goes through data, or if the whole thing transitions to a data call over FT.

That said, the ATT Forums are loaded with posts of this happening to people. Easiest way to prevent it is to just go into your account settings and disable outbound international calls. I'm not sure if they have the equivalent of [2] option in their wireless account portal (the link is for their landline service), but if not you can have customer service do it manually. That way you explicitly prevent your phone from establishing a true international call via AT&T's network (whether via cell service or Wifi Calling).

[1] https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1063258

[2] https://www.att.com/support/article/u-verse-voice/KM1010583

wikibob• 4 years ago

Can you post a redacted copy of your detailed bill line item?

Ask HN: AT&T Charging for FaceTime?

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