Windows urges users to use Bing same way as urgent security warnings

https://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/1428457677261246465

by dustinmoris • 5 years ago

139 88 5 years ago

sofixa• 5 years ago

Microsoft going back to its old ways. Hopefully this time when they get slapped by regulators it ends this type of behaviour once and for all (break them up into Windows and enterprise software; Azure; Office 365; Surface).

Nullabillity2• 5 years ago

Meet the new Microsoft, same as the old Microsoft.

dmz73• 5 years ago

They have seen Google, Apple and other tech players get away with it for years with no repercussions and large number of users even defending their favourite overlords. Does "its their platform, they can do what they want on it" sound familiar? This is the end result, the precedent has been set and we are all going to pay for it in the coming years.

dustinmoris2• 5 years ago

I have been using Safari and Firefox for years. Never have I got a pop-up in Safari when I visited the Chrome website to tell me that I should stay on Safari. Strange, because you say that Apple has been doing this for years yet it has completely escaped me!

Also, never have I seen a pop-up in iOS to tell me to use Apple Maps when I opened or downloaded Google Maps. Again, very strange, because you are claiming that Apple is doing the same disgusting tactics as Microsoft, yet I have never felt as an iOS or macOS user to be bullied into using Apple Maps.

AnIdiotOnTheNet• 5 years ago

Well one big difference is that neither Google nor Apple enjoy a de-facto monopoly the way Microsoft does on the Desktop. Of course, where one draws the line on that sort of thing is pretty arbitrary.

Personally I've played devil's advocate for Google and Apple mostly because the reasoning I see for forcing them to open their platforms seems post-hoc. For instance many assert that phones need to be open but, for some reason, game consoles do not. People seemingly deciding what they want and then twisting their reasoning until it fits.

AshamedCaptain• 5 years ago

At this point I believe they are doing it just to show that they can get away with it.

1cvmask• 5 years ago

Old habits die hard. Corporate culture and mindsets often remain the same despite the smooth verbiage of Satya Nadella who was an insider anyway. Credit goes to him to duping many in the tech community on fundamental change which is now obviously window dressing.

fsflover4• 5 years ago

Related recent discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29415031.

fsflover4• 5 years ago

From the comments:

I'm still waiting for Microsoft to let me change the default search engine in Notepad. Hopefully they add macros too.

etu• 5 years ago

What does even the "search with bing" do from Notepad? Like... open "default browser with bing to let you search?" by a hotkey and menu entry? That's just... silly.

bagacrap• 5 years ago

probably uses selected text as a search query

thejosh2• 5 years ago

They also show a warning in edge/bing when you google "google chrome". Must be their highest search term :-).

reincarnate0x143• 5 years ago

World's most popular way to download Firefox!

progbits• 5 years ago

Could you please share a screenshot of that warning? I'm unable to reproduce it.

I don't have access to Edge, maybe it only happens there? I'm just curious to see what it says.

thejosh2• 5 years ago

Sure! https://i.imgur.com/NblOFPt.png

willis9362• 5 years ago

Since this has popped up I have started reaching for mozilla.org directly. Spooky times we live in where I trust so little of the sofware I run. How long until default hosts file redirects mozilla.org to bing.com?

coolso2• 5 years ago

Google has engaged in similar tactics across all of their major platforms for years and years, it’s how Chrome catapulted into the top spot in the Blink of an eye. At one point you couldn’t visit any of their top sites without them begging you to download it and telling you it was the best browser ever. Whether you were searching for a browser or not.

kreeben2• 5 years ago

Nadella: Stop what you're doing. Time for step three.

MS devs: But sir, that would mean we extinguish our own OS ecosystem, our bread and butter, the thing we build everything upon, the reason why people love us.

Nadella: Do it! I only know 1-2-3.

1_player• 5 years ago

Yeah, I don't understand how people say the heavy push towards Edge, crappy addons and pervasive analytics is some middle-manager that needs to increase their performance metrics, and not an executive order coming from the top. As if Nadella is the reason why Microsoft has been gaining mind-share and good will with developers, but Windows becoming more and more spyware has nothing to do with him at all.

It's all part of their internal strategy, and it's coming from Satya Nadella himself. If he doesn't know what's going on at his company, that's even more damning for him.

kreeben2• 5 years ago

Of course it is coming from Satya. Of course it is. Of course.

Satya seems to believe AI is the new cloud. To businesses he speaks about how AI improves his software, how it makes it smarter, more inherently customizable to each and every company's needs and in doing so he's riding the AI wave, perfectly.

Satya decides to create an Edge wave. Make Edge default in all OS related hyper text.

Then he rides the Edge wave with BNPL.

Then he talks to the Bing team. They're not getting enough attention, they say. I'll fix that, Satya says.

Then he talks to the Windows team. "I need to ride your wave, baby", he says.

traspler• 5 years ago

This has been the case in Windows 10 for at least a year.

Croftengea• 5 years ago

Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot here. Who will take real security warnings seriously after that?

reincarnate0x143• 5 years ago

That ship sailed years ago. Windows has trained people that all system dialogue boxes are a choice between "Use my computer" and "Don't use my computer."

formerly_proven3• 5 years ago

Classic example in security UX how it's not done.

robalni3• 5 years ago

Is Windows even an operating system any more? An operating system is software that is supposed to make it easy to run other applications on your computer. Here it seems like Windows is trying to prevent people from running the applications they want. That's the opposite of what an operating system is for.

rhn_mk14• 5 years ago

"applications they want" is kind of hard to convey though. If you run a game with a rootkit, is that something you "want"? If you open a malicious document and it ends up encrypting your data, did you "want" it? Do people who install toolbars "want" the spyware or cryptocurrency miners that comes with them?

A modern operating system tries to guess what the users "want", because that's by no means clear.

Of course, it's a matter of judgement, and judgement comes with its own problems.

scambier• 5 years ago

We're not talking about rootkits or malware, but about a default browser application, and a default search engine.

robalni3• 5 years ago

A good rule of thumb is: Would the users do it to themselves? It think that's pretty easy to guess.

Would the users try to make themselves not run the browser they want to run? No.

Would the users try to avoid malware? Yes.

yourusername• 5 years ago

With edge now actively promoting "buy now pay later" services i'm not sure microsoft still gets to claim they are protecting users from their own poor choices.

hvgk• 5 years ago

I wouldn’t know these days. A while back I decided to break up with anything I was in an abusive relationship with.

sva_• 5 years ago

It appears like ransomware runs just fine on it.

nicolaslem• 5 years ago

I am so spoiled by the Linux/Debian/Gnome OS which lets me pick and use the tools and workflows that work for me.

Windows and iOS are the exact opposite of that, they constantly push me towards their "ecosystem". Opting out of those is a constant battle.

swiley2• 5 years ago

Have you tried editing text files on iOS and copying them to another machine without an online service? On every other OS you have OpenSSH and some text editor installed already, on iOS the easiest thing to do is install iSH but it's still pretty painful since it's slow and can't see everything.

duduehrcyc• 5 years ago

I'm very pro-linux by personal preference, but I always find it silly when Linux tools are billed as good. They're powerful certainly, but what we as a community should hear when someone remarks "Can Windows really be called an operating system?" is that our tooling is so supremely bad that, despite its raw power, people would rather deal with a locked down ad-ware mess than have to consider our tools.

We're not spoiled, we're just deviants.

Crontab3• 5 years ago

It's not just Windows - the whole commercial OS system market is going to shit.

Operating systems are now treated as nothing more than a gateway to online services. Many commercial operating systems now require Internet access to obtain a working installation and some require an online account for things like creating a user account or adding applications. And then there are things like forced telemetry and forced system updates.

I personally don't like any of this.

kamranjon• 5 years ago

Can you provide an example of an OS that requires internet for a working base system? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

agumonkey• 5 years ago

Don't mistake concepts and reality. Windows has always been a bridge between hardware and sales. It was the platform that MS made so dev and users would depend on to meet.

causi• 5 years ago

Man I miss the days when Windows didn't treat me like an easily-exploited idiot. I used to get so excited when the new Windows came out, and followed its development like a true fan. I wish I could feel the same way I did the first time I installed Windows 95, 2000, 7.

discreteevent• 5 years ago

I started programming Windows 3.1 in C with the Charles Petzold book. (I have a sentimental attachment to it because of that). Then NT came out, what an operating system! But just a few months ago I switched the home PC to linux.

Windows is just a big ball of shit now. Along with all the adware they had some office quickstarter service that was using 100% disk (known issue but no sign of a fix - I don't have an SDD so maybe they just decided not to bother with that segment of the market). I would disable the service but every update it would end up enabled again.

I've no regrets. The linux experience is just so calm and functional.

gjsman-10003• 5 years ago

Windows didn't treat me like an easily-exploited idiot.

What if, horror of horrors, this is because most Windows users actually are easily-exploited idiots...

durnygbur• 5 years ago

I had moved my computer life away from Microsoft ecosystem long time ago, then away from Google. I'm happier person now. In case in a workplace I'm forced to use Windows I pass on the opportunity.

greatgib• 5 years ago

Ah ah ah, so much pleasure I have seeing that!

For all the persons here that were saying that it is ok to use MS soft and cloud products, vscode, ... and let them become big stakeholders of OSS stacks, because they are not the same as they used to be...

And haters are just stuck in the past or trolls...

bovermyer2• 5 years ago

I wouldn't use Windows at all, but I'm a gamer, and that means Windows.

(yes, yes, I know, but the games I play tend to not do well with Linux... some will even ban your account because they misidentify you as using cheat software)

ajvs• 5 years ago

The compromise I've found is cloud gaming whilst on Linux for those few Windows-only. Even for competitive FPS and MOBAs GeForce NOW runs great for me.

riidom• 5 years ago

It's improving recently though, e.g. see here:

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/11/steam-play-proton-6-3-...

Imo worth watching the space, also there is protonDB for checking your individual favorites:

https://www.protondb.com

bovermyer2• 5 years ago

Glad to hear it's improving!

This would be a nonstarter for me though: https://www.protondb.com/app/1371580

luciusdomitius• 5 years ago

Seriously, the company which broght the term FUD into mainstream use and is behind the Halloween documents[0] is acting unethically towards its cusomers. Am I allowed not to be surprised?

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents

formerly_proven3• 5 years ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29251775

bennyelv• 5 years ago

I’m intrigued why companies are fighting so hard over what really should be a simple/boring commodity bit of software. There must be a good reason for it, given the huge amount of investment.

What’s the game of 4-d chess that I’m not seeing?

swiley2• 5 years ago

System software gives you a ton of control over the user. It's easy to say "oops that doesn't work" when they use apps that don't make you money or give you more control. With an app the user would just install something else but switching OSes means work, not just installation but adopting the differing paradigms.

willis9362• 5 years ago

Ask the same of adtech. The attention economy has wealth in mindshare. No one knows who IBM is but everyone knows who Microsoft is for one reason: everyone runs Windows.

jamiethompson• 5 years ago

Is it 1998 again?

usrusr• 5 years ago

Throwback Friday, apparently. I'm almost disappointed that Firefox doesn't Substitut hn orange with the old /. petrol for a page with this content.

marcodiego• 5 years ago

Ugly. Hope it encourages users to consider safari relationship with iOS.

awruko• 5 years ago

If I type "download firefox" in edge/bing, the first thing at the top is foxload.com with a low contrast Ad marker. When I ask edge/bing "is foxload.com safe", the very fist thing says: "Safe Browsing status for Foxload.com is Unsafe."

motohagiography• 5 years ago

I use Bing for privacy because nobody would ever expect someone to use it for anything they cared about.

Denvercoder9• 5 years ago

Time for the EU to start another anti-trust suit.

lbwtaylor• 5 years ago

Interesting all this hand wringing - my mom's Apple computer is almost constant in it's interrupts to promote Apple's paid icloud service. Seems we're already way past an OS getting in your way to promote affiliate services. Bing seems more harmless to me.

jhanschoo• 5 years ago

It worked in my case, at least for Edge. I didn't care enough for using Chrome over Edge to be pestered. I use Windows for gaming primarily. My productive stuff is on Linux. Still wouldn't be using Bing though.

coolso2• 5 years ago

I would argue Microsoft is fighting fire with fire here. I don’t like it either… but I like Google and its tactics and policies even less. They’ve been on top for years with essentially nobody making any dents in their market dominance in either the browser or search engine sphere. I think getting the average mom and pop to switch away from Google, one of the farthest companies from being innocent, is ultimately a good thing.

Windows urges users to use Bing same way as urgent security warnings

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