Ironbci: Open-Source Brain Computer Interface

by zeepzeep • 5 years ago

146 52 5 years ago

Cyclical3• 5 years ago

Interesting project, though a lot of prior open source work exists for very similar devices[1]. Couldn't get access to the research paper to read through due to a paywall, so hopefully the Github gets updated with more information.

[1] https://openbci.com/

MrDunham• 5 years ago

I came here to ask how it was different from OpenBCI.

It might end up slightly cheaper. They use the ADS1299 Analog-to-Digital Converter, which is $40 (DACs are usually one of the largest costs of BCIs). So it seems like the all-in cost won’t be much cheaper than OpenBCI.

Hopefully I’m wrong and someone will correct me because I’d love to see a research-grade BCI for ~$100-$200 (not sure about Muse 2 but my neuroscientist friend called Muse 1 “a fun toy, but still a toy”… sadly that’s the closest I’ve found so far.)

a-dub2• 5 years ago

didn't some grad students at mit wrap the intan adc/amplifier with an fpga and open source board design like 10 years ago? i think the component prices came in under $200.

dunno about signal or clock quality though. (i suppose that's a function of the intan package)

xyzzy1232• 5 years ago

As far as I can tell, OpenBCI already is that thing.

It's just very hard to sustain a business on one-off low volume hardware sales so the prices on the official site are relatively high compared to BOM (but perfectly reasonable and necessary to sustain further R&D).

It seems many hobbyists will buy off aliexpress while institutions / researchers tend to get the "official" hardware.

If you're happy with 8 channels wired (run laptop off batteries and use a good USB opto-isolator...) then you can get that right now for about 200 USD (not including headware).

(Note: better to get a 32-bit board not 8-bit one).

Cyclical3• 5 years ago

From the information that they've published (paywalled article excluded of course) it does not seem like they're going for anything necessarily novel or niche-filling, more just making another option. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as (coming from someone who works in BCI) more tech is always welcome, even if it's in what I and most other people I talk to consider a dead-end technology (EEG).

Also funny you bring up the Muse, as I actually worked there a few years back. The Muse 2 is a reasonable increase in signal fidelity though with a tradeoff in that it has more issues in adverse environmental conditions (sweat etc). The main difference between the generations is in usability on the consumer end, which is the target market for the device. It was never intended to be a research tool, and it excludes many of the important electrode locations for research. For that reason, calling it a toy is roughly accurate in my opinion.

tashoecraft• 5 years ago

you can check out Nuerosity’s crown: https://neurosity.co/

zeepzeep• 5 years ago

Yes, sadly it's not on sci-hub it seems :/

ildaron_ron3• 5 years ago

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354935534_Low-cost_...

open access here)

spicyramen• 5 years ago

Sorry for the simple question, how do you plug it to your brain ?

bceyyeawauyy• 5 years ago

Usually a cap of electrodes on the scalp, sort of like the ones they put on your chest for an EKG.

It's read-only, ofc.

lstodd• 5 years ago

It's read-only, ofc.

Until one drives the electrodes with some voltage.

Then it becomes Transcranial Electrical Stimulation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5405830/

drawqrtz• 5 years ago

If we can ever get to the stage where I can just think and it gets saved as a text file, that would be more exciting to me than "metaverse" and quantum computing together.

tines• 5 years ago

And also the end of civilization as we know it.

edgyquant6• 5 years ago

So? The industrial Revolution was the end of civilization as people knew it and it turned out okay

matheusmoreira2• 5 years ago

That's terrifying. This technology will never be used to empower us in ethical ways. It will be used by corporations for read access to our brains.

LeifCarrotson2• 5 years ago

It certainly has the potential to result in a dystopia, but it could also become a utopia.

Today, in the USA, corporations are incredibly powerful, surveillance technology is growing faster than legal frameworks or consumers can keep up with, and there's little expectation of or coordinated resistance from uninformed, irrational, impotent consumers or effective regulation from our partisan and captive governmental agencies. That hasn't always been true - at other times, colonial governments, monarchies, feudal leaders, tribal leaders, or religious leaders have held power. It probably won't be true in perpetuity.

The trick is to make sure that we only open Pandora's Box of brain-computer interfaces (or better and also more frighteningly, full-brain upload and emulation) technology when society is ready...

Edit: I'm reminded of qntm's excellent short story "Lena" at https://qntm.org/mmacevedo - about "the earliest executable image of a human brain". I won't spoil it, other than to say that it's something of a horror story, depending on your worldview and the depth of your imagination.

_def• 5 years ago

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robbedpeter2• 5 years ago

It's wireheading by proxy - the benefits all go to a nonhuman entity (corporation) instead of a hedonistic personal train wreck.

It's somehow more dark and evil than any cyberpunk dystopia while being boring and beige at the same time.

_448• 5 years ago

Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjAE92EC9cA

mlboss• 5 years ago

But it would be amazing to have ar+brain interface. I can program from anywhere with just my glasses.

shireboy• 5 years ago

This would allow for telepathy (send audio to someones ear by thinking it) and telekinesis (control smart devices with thought).

ildaron_ron3• 5 years ago

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354935534_Low-cost_...

open access to the paper here

Ironbci: Open-Source Brain Computer Interface

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