Linux Sucks 2021 – The End of Linux Is Nigh [video]

https://lunduke.locals.com/post/437549/linux-sucks-2021-the-end-of-linux-is-nigh

by WoodenChair • 5 years ago

64 190 5 years ago

lunduke.locals.com

hr2016• 5 years ago

pshirshov9• 5 years ago

Well, Linux definitely sucks.

By a chance - is there anything better? Pretty please?..

Actually in case Fuchsia manages to replace - well, I would be happy. But would it really happen?..

dnautics11• 5 years ago

I want to know the answer to this. I have a really good track record of picking things that are about to get hot (julia, elixir, zig). As much as I love linux, I also hate it. I'm ready for the next OS.

pshirshov9• 5 years ago

Noone is working on the next general purpose OS for the end user. Maybe apart of Google.

For some reason people wish to stick with dated unsafe crap from prehistoric era.

yissp2• 5 years ago

[something].js https://xkcd.com/1508/

koolba• 5 years ago

Linux is like Democracy, it’s the worst except for all the alternatives.

Ekaros2• 5 years ago

Windows

pshirshov9• 5 years ago

Sorry, but what is "Windows"?

AnimalMuppet2• 5 years ago

What's your definition of "better"?

cybernautique3• 5 years ago

Why is Windows better than Linux?

dnautics11• 5 years ago

Actually in case Fuchsia manages to replace - well, I would be happy. But would it really happen?..

Would you be happy? Google has a poor track record of maintenance, not to mention monstrosities like angular, golang, kubernetes... I shudder to think about what a Google OS would look like.

pshirshov9• 5 years ago

Well, fuchsia seems to be better designed and from what I've heard they had intention to rewrite their kernel in Rust. Eventually.

Fuchsia seems to be FOSS.

So, in case a new userland appears on top of this legacy-free system I, probably, would be happier than I am right now on damn Linux where nothing works as it should and everything segfaults.

amatecha• 5 years ago

You may want to check out the *BSD OSes like FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD. Just try them. Watch some videos to see what they're about. They might very well appeal to you. I personally think they are great and am embracing them (particularly OpenBSD) over Linux for most new computers I set up.

Alupis6• 5 years ago

Bryan Lunduke revisits this talk every year at linux conventions. Usually good observations.

BTW, he loves linux.

gHosts3• 5 years ago

I hate long slow videos? Any slides.

He seems sometimes, if I remember previous years, to forget the point is open source, not linux.

If a better Open Source OS appears tomorrow, I'd abandon linux for it without a backward glance.

If it's closed source, it could be rainbows and ponies and I'd still turn it down.

On the otherhand, I bet an Open Source OS could grow any rainbows and ponies I actually need and want.

Alupis6• 5 years ago

to forget the point is open source, not linux.

For you, perhaps. But for most companies, they use Linux because it's the best server OS around in regards to performance, compatibility, customizability, footprint, support, etc.

Sorry BSD folks, I know BSD is great too, but it's just not as widespread as Linux and therefore doesn't quite have the compatibility and support Linux enjoys.

type05• 5 years ago

OpenBSD might not have rainbows and ponies, but it has Puffy and it usually compensates more than enough for lack of those.

omgitsabird• 5 years ago

Does Lunduke use a teleprompter and read his blog posts at conventions verbatim? I used to subscribe to his YouTube channel, but it eventually just became blog spam that he repeated in video form.

raman162• 5 years ago

This is a long form video, maybe the title should be adjusted to inform that

skibz• 5 years ago

Much like Google's Fuchsia, FreeBSD is an alternative that has compatibility for Linux binaries.

mathfailure• 5 years ago

No, it has not, that's a myth. Nothing works there properly.

pjmlp17• 5 years ago

It works well enough for Playstation developers.

1vuio0pswjnm73• 5 years ago

NetBSD kernel has Linux compatibility. (NetBSD had it for years before FreeBSD.) For simple applications it works well. Fortunately I prefer simple applications.

pshirshov9• 5 years ago

But not an alternative when we need memory safety or just damn 802.11ac wifi.

Delk• 5 years ago

The kernel's still monolithic, and one of the arguments in the video was core system components becoming unsustainably large. I suppose the community woes the video mentions might apply equally to BSD, although I have no personal experience with how those work in that part of the world.

If Google developing Fuchsia and (again, as postulated in the video) perhaps moving focus away from Linux is a concern, it might be worth noting that even if there are corporate backers and sponsors of FreeBSD, I don't think there are companies the size of Google, Intel or even Red Hat contributing massively to its overall development. I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of that going on.

Pretty much all of the arguments given in the video could be true for FreeBSD or other Unix systems as well, at least if they had the breadth of Linux in terms of hardware support, size and visibility of the community, and corporate connections.

pjmlp17• 5 years ago

That is the beauty of the license, Apple, Sony can take what they feel like having, and only upstream also what they feel like.

There are UNIX like OSes that use microkernels, like QNX or INTEGRITY.

blagie• 5 years ago

I wish there were a TL;DR, a transcript, or something.

TOMDM2• 5 years ago

To quote his major points

- Founders banished

- Community in shambles

- Companies losing linux focus

- Core system components reaching unsustainability

- Google building a replacement (Fuschia)

- Statistically unlikely to stay active much longer

smoldesu2• 5 years ago

Their summary:

- Founders banished

- Community in shambles

- Companies losing Linux focus

- Core system components reaching sustainability

- Google building replacement

- Statistically unlikely to stay active much longer

factorialboy• 5 years ago

Quite verbose for such limited content.

Anyway, Linux has always been the under-dog. It was "statistically" much less likely to survive in the late-90s and early-00s.

In my personal opinion, Linux offers me the best desktop experience today.

I think I'm not in a bubble, I dabble with MacOS and Windows often. Linux feels liberating. It takes time to customize to one's preferences, but after that, it is smooth AF.

dnautics11• 5 years ago

It takes time to customize to one's preferences

I don't even do that. I find the {mint, PopOS} defaults to be incredibly sane. I think I changed the background of mint. I'm always SO very confused when I need to use a MacOS or Windows machine.

That said, you can get the feeling out of the corner of your usage that something's gonna give. There has been painful transitionary stuff going on (remember X vs wayland? ifupdown vs networkmanager vs netplan? systemd? musl vs glibc?) that somehow the community papered over in a sane fashion for GP use, but when I was "sysadminnnig" stuff as an accessory to the stuff I was coding, it was loads of pain normalizing between different machines and moving from distro to distro. This could get even worse as stuff moves to containerized work, so the people most likely to complain due to bearing the most pain just stop caring.

jbhouse• 5 years ago

the bluetooth can be annoyingly wonky at times for me, but otherwise Linux is definitely the best in my experience

handrous• 5 years ago

Anyway, Linux has always been the under-dog.

It's currently dominant on phones and servers. Google can snap its fingers and set one of those on a course to drop toward zero over a few years, and is well-positioned to push Fuchsia for cloud-related server purposes if it so chooses, so that'll likely go too, if they decide to do that. AFAIK most Linux desktops are ChromeOS devices, and that's Google again.

That leaves traditional Linux desktop users, but if Fuchsia's GUI is any good and is well-integrated, and driver support is OK, those'll bleed to Fuchsia faster than they're replaced, too.

at_a_remove3• 5 years ago

This thing with the founders is interesting (remind me to make my own license with "I take it all down with me if you destroy me" clause), but I want to know much more.

But who/what is the attack vector? Is it a coordinated attack and if so, what is the method and who are the backers? Are there other founders included in this trend? Granted, those three are pretty big but ...

dnautics11• 5 years ago

I'm not sure it matters... Even if it was completely uncoordinated or by accident, it's not good for the ecosystem.

krapp• 5 years ago

It's always either Marxist feminists or agent provocateurs for proprietary software. Or both.

dnautics11• 5 years ago

I don't want to put words in Lunduke's mouth, but since it seems to be a politically charged issue, I think that in this video the perspective of why "Founders banished" matters has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with why any given one of them (or all of them) have been banished, the fact that it's all happening at once - whether or not it's a coincidence - suggests a bad future for the ecosystem.

lavabiopsy12• 5 years ago

I disagree, out-of-touch founders being kicked out is a good thing. It's a sign that the community is strong enough and can move forward irrespective of any one person's opinion. This video has it totally backwards.

Like, I get that there is an aspect of founder worship on this forum but there is no inherent value in this beyond the idea that someone can keep control indefinitely, which doesn't matter for an open source project. Maybe it matters if you want to hang onto your company's bank accounts but that's a fundamentally different thing compared to a project that exists entirely on public github.

na852• 5 years ago

Founders banished

Linus was banished?

Melkman2• 5 years ago

Not yet. There were some hot headed debates during the height of #metoo about his communication style including calls for him to change his ways or stand down. Linus choose to change his ways and change the code of conflict to the code of conduct. https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin...

gHosts3• 5 years ago

Hint: The community has always been in shambles. It's a feature, not a bug.

Founders aren't banished, they aren't in any gulag. They can carry on. If they produce something better, they are still the drivers.

A commentator below said, "remind me to make my own license with "I take it all down with me if you destroy me" clause....

That is explicitly _not_ and open source license.

The point is no one, neither the founders, nor any that may replace them, "take it all down with me".

You may get a fork, well then, may the best fork win.

A while back gcc was forked. Remember egcs? It was the best fork for awhile.

Then the fork merged again with gcc again.

Yup. It happens.

Life moves on.

trav4225• 5 years ago

Yeah, this is almost like criticizing democracy for being messy. The mess is sort of the point. :-)

tored2• 5 years ago

Bryan Lunduke makes some really good points especially regarding Google, that Google eventually will replace Linux. It is worrying how Google eats up every market and at the same time branding their actions as good will, "hey it is open source!"

If the US ever wants to keep some of their liberties they need to break up Google.

For Europe, we need to build our own web platforms without the American big tech.

oytis• 5 years ago

European search engines and social networks do exist, they are just not very competitive even on the European market

throwawayswede2• 5 years ago

I'm aware that Brian has been trolling with such a title over the years, but I really think that it's the epitome of clickbait. Totally a personal opinion, but I absolutely hate such farcical titles.

I'd honestly feel more compelled to watch yet another one of those with a title like "What still sucks about Linux"

TOMDM2• 5 years ago

Agreed.

Not to mention he takes ages to say not much.

There are some good points buried in here, but it takes him over 5 minutes before he's even on topic.

mrintegrity• 5 years ago

i was grateful for the 1.75x speed option on the video!

ziml77• 5 years ago

He's not trolling or clickbaiting. The title is referring to a future that we are always teetering on the edge of where Linux fades away. The video is a list of the things that he thinks the Linux community should be looking to fix to avoid that decline.

throwawayswede2• 5 years ago

He's not trolling

Yes he is.

or clickbaiting

I believe he is.

…he thinks the Linux community should…

You might be commenting on the wrong post, because clearly that’s not what the title of the talk says.

While we’re on the topic, I think the problem is trying to make a “community” out of every other software a group of people use. I think embedding Linux in Windows is wrong, clearly there are lots of Linux people who think that’s correct. I’m not wrong and neither are they. We just don’t have to be a “community” just because we use Linux. The survival of Linux depends on a lot more than what a random circle of people who use it are arguing about.

butz• 5 years ago

As long as Linux sucks less than Windows and macOS - I'm a happy Linux user.

hk13372• 5 years ago

macOS UI > Linux UI > Windows UI

but macOS has weird quirks that bumps them down in the CLI space.

Linux CLI > macOS CLI > Windows CLI

Linux CLI and macOS CLI are really close, I think but Linux beats it.

ladyanita22• 5 years ago

Windows software library >>> macOS software library >> Linux software library

smoldesu2• 5 years ago

At the peak of it's game (Mojave), MacOS was really competitive for my workflow. One evening I made a simple realization that kinda trashed it all, though: I was spending more time making MacOS like Linux than I spent making Linux like MacOS. By the time Catalina came out (and trashed 32-bit libs along with it) the value proposition was squandered once again. It's funny how transient the usability of a 'stable' OS can be, even on the Linux side of things.

Of course, Windows is still bringing up the rear. WSL is mighty competitive though, and I'm giddy with anticipation of what Windows 11 will do with it.

scns• 5 years ago

Form or function what do we value more?

azalemeth• 5 years ago

I agree with this. I genuinely think that linux is the best "developer" machine there is, particularly if you are cross-compiling. You have complete control over everything and can really get to the bottom of problems if required. I really like the fact that I can look at the kernel sources if I need to understand how the &!%$ something works. You don't often need to do this, but when you do, you really do. The one thing that perpetually just pees me off about basically all Linux DMs/WMs that I have used a lot is that occasionally they just hang, horribly, even when the system isn't hosed, and even when you are trying to use it. It's hard to understate how jarring this is as a user, and MacOS in particular seems very well optimised to prevent it ever occurring. I don't quite know how, but if you ever see the seconds not updating on a 1 s tick in MacOS, something is wrong. Even with renice'd -20 xfce on linux on a machine with TiB of ram and 96 cores, sometimes the UI just hangs.

That being said, Apple's documentation is nowadays oft-lamented as being outdated -- I remember it being excellent, including the first ever description of OO code I ever read, as a teenager. (Aside: It involved "a faucet". Not being a speaker of en-US, I remember distinctly looking up that word and trying to understand what on earth they meant, until "tap" appeared later on in my brain). I've never really written MacOS apps but I gather you have to "drink the kool aid" at every available opportunity and to some extent this shows.

My experience of Windows over the last 30+ years is one of confusion, culture clash, a lack of understanding, and frustration. I am not qualified to comment on it, but it does seem to be the case that people can spin up GUIs very quickly very routinely, and they tend to keep running for a bloody long time as well, unlike both other options.

gralx• 5 years ago

Linux is "just" the kernel, and statements like

XNU UI > Linux UI > Windows NT UI

don't make sense because Linux has many different UIs. I'm pretty sure there is no macOS UI comparable to my preferred tiling window managers Sway and i3, and in that sense which UI is better is a question of personal preference and habit. In fact, I'm pretty sure only one macOS UI is available. Same for Windows: only one Windows UI available per Windows version.

pshirshov9• 5 years ago

macOS UI is written in memory unsafe language

Linux is written in memory unsafe language

Windows is written in memory unsafe language

Where is my memory-safe desktop OS?

XorNot• 5 years ago

I can't stand the macOS UI. My ideal UI is something Windows 7-like, and these days that's closest replicated by Cinnamon which understands it just needs to get out of my way.

I think the big missing thing with Cinnamon is some sensible tracker integration so inside document searching can work.

nine_k• 5 years ago

MacOS UI polish > Linux UI polish.

MacOS UI choice and flexibility << Linux UI choice and flexibility.

(A voice of a MacOS user from 2031: "Choice?")

subsection1h• 5 years ago

macOS UI > Linux UI > Windows UI

By "UI", do you mean desktop environment? I'm Debian user with no desktop environment, only a window manager.

Linux WMs > macOS/Windows WMs

Or by "UI", do you mean GUI apps? I have fewer than 10 GUI apps installed, and I don't think GUIs matter much, especially when comparing OSes.

jcelerier3• 5 years ago

macOS UI > Linux UI > Windows UI

for whom ? I'm in a room with mac, windows and linux computers, going away from my linux machine is a chore and fills me with dread

yissp2• 5 years ago

Just looking at UI, though, I think the trend actually favors Linux. GNOME and KDE have made pretty huge strides in the past few years in terms of general usability and polish. Meanwhile I feel like every Mac OS and Windows update elicits nothing but complaints.

kvark5• 5 years ago

Linux has never been scale-able, starting from the days of the Tanenbaum–Torvalds debate. You can't grow a monolithic kernel indefinitely. It's amusing how it managed to reach the state it is now.

dnautics11• 5 years ago

can I introduce you to something called x86?

kvark5• 5 years ago

That's an interesting analogy! I think it's going to be history as well, just in a much longer term. Apple has jumped the ship already.

outworlder• 5 years ago

Why do you need to grow a kernel indefinitely? Surely there's a limit on what kernelspace is responsible for.

kvark5• 5 years ago

I don't want to grow a kernel. Linux grows by 2M LOC a year, as reported by the author of the video. That's just what happens.

IshKebab• 5 years ago

Linux includes all drivers in-tree (in theory anyway) and there's definitely no limit to the number of drivers you need.

omgwtfbyobbq3• 5 years ago

On the plus side, rms returned to the FSF about a month after this video was made. Maybe things are slightly less nigh?

https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/22/22344910/richard-stallman...

lavabiopsy12• 5 years ago

I don't understand why that would be relevant, Richard Stallman has nothing to do with Linux and has never worked on Linux at all.

type05• 5 years ago

relevant link that would otherwise have two of these contradictory copypastas: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/Interjection

edit: the whole point is that people often mean Linux as in some distro and not Linux the Kernel

m4632• 5 years ago

The linux kernel is only one part of a functional system. RMS contributed gcc, gdb, emacs, gmake and more into the gnu system, which are all used in most distributions.

That said, I think the GPL is his most important contribution, because that has kept such projects (such as the linux kernel) available to all.

omgwtfbyobbq3• 5 years ago

Yup. The video creator thought it was relevant (~7:00). I think it's a little funny he was back on the board a month after the video.

rcoveson4• 5 years ago

Saying that Richard Stallman has "nothing to do with Linux" is like saying that Naughty Dog have nothing to do with the PlayStation. They don't work on the hardware or OS, sure, but they do happen to write some of the most popular software on the system.

GNU software installation counts are highly correlated with Linux installation counts. A user's overall experience with their Linux system is somewhat correlated with their feelings about the GNU software on it. If people enjoyed GNU software 50% less, it would certainly harm Linux.

b112• 5 years ago

Google is famous for launching projects, spending billions, and then... just dropping them.

And just because Google does something, doesn't mean anyone else will use it.

Not sure why Google doing something, means certain... anything.

gnabgib• 5 years ago

This was posted 7 months ago [0] with a fairly sizable discussion (74 comments)

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203471

jlkuester7• 5 years ago

Man, this does make me wonder if Linux today is the FireFox of 2007.... An absolute juggernaut that is far superior to its cooperate competitors (IE/Safari), but can't quite comprehend what is about to happen when Google releases this little thing called Chrome...

Fuchsia is definitely a vastly underrated project (just from the fact that it has survived 5? years without the overlords at Google killing it off should indicate something).

jamesfinlayson• 5 years ago

Fuschia will survive (I assume Google wants to have an operating system with a license that isn't GPL).

pjmlp17• 5 years ago

Fuchsia is already in production, the Nest now use it.

garren2• 5 years ago

Could fuchsia, as a google product/project, get the kind of traction that has contributed to the success of Linux? I think it possible, but somehow it doesn’t seem realistic. Would google’s competition flock to using google’s proprietary Linux replacement?

yellowapple2• 5 years ago

Kinda surprised he didn't mention WSL, on the topic of companies trying to enable transitioning away from Linux onto their own operating systems. On that note, if the end is indeed nigh, then replicating Linux compatibility across as many other platforms as possible - beefing up the existing support on FreeBSD and NetBSD, reintroducing it for OpenBSD, getting it going on something like Haiku - seems like an important next step. Linux the kernel might have numbered days, but Linux the ABI could still have a future.

One thing the video misses re: Linux's prognosis is the breadth of hardware/driver support. Linux is, if not the most comprehensive collection of actively maintained device drivers out there, pretty darn close to it. Other platforms implementing Linux's userspace ABI? Big whoop. It's the kernelspace drivers that will entrench Linux for a long while, and it's those drivers that a Linux replacement will need to provide - whether from scratch or through compatibility with Linux's kernelspace APIs - before Linux's death is even possible, let alone probable. Even Fuchsia is highly unlikely to be the Linux replacement Bryan suspects it to be without substantially expanding its hardware support (which is still AFAICT in its infancy; even Haiku supports more hardware, and that's developed with a budget that might as well be a rounding error compared to what Google's able to throw around).

type05• 5 years ago

Kinda surprised he didn't mention WSL

- How could you make Linux suck more? - You install it on Windows!

pjmlp17• 5 years ago

Actually suck less, it has been my option since VMWare made it possible.

kazinator2• 5 years ago

but Linux the ABI could still have a future.

This is an important point because it conflicts the doom and gloom claim that something like Fuchsia is just a temporary transition technology that will then dump the compatibility.

You can't just dump the compatibility and remain relevant.

If Google deploys Fuchsia on mobile devices, and then morphs it into something that isn't Linux compatible, it just won't be relevant; it's basically a step of retreating into a niche.

Various pieces of middleware won't work on it; I don't think Google wants that.

It's the kernelspace drivers that will entrench Linux for a long while

You might think, but it is 100% clear? Drivers can be ported to a different system. There are out of tree drivers out there that use #ifdefs to be compatible across kernel versions due to upstream changes. Drivers can be separated into the payload parts, and the Linux glue, and then that glue can be retargetted.

Nobody wants to do that though if they can just use Linux right?

However, the arguments of Linux accumulating code and becoming less and less maintainable could precipitate into situations where alternatives spring up which take what they want or need out of Linux, without all the other crud.

Kinda surprised he didn't mention WSL

I was thinking the exact same thing when he brought up Fuchsia, but I think he had a point there. Not a lot of us have heard of Fuchsia. WSL is not a threat to anything because it already runs under Windows. It's not poised to take a huge number of devices famously based on the Linux kernel, and take Linux out of the picture. WSL isn't a transition off Linux and could never be; nobody is looking to transition to Windows via WSL. WSL has little room to break Linux compatibility.

Imagine that, say, ten years from now, no Android, Chrome OS or Google TV or whatever device is built on Linux any more. The kernel is Fuchsia or whatever; there is a C library that is the same old Bionic or a derivative. That will be a blow to Linux.

yellowapple2• 5 years ago

Nobody wants to do that though if they can just use Linux right?

That's kind of what I'm getting at, yeah. Sure, you could port a bunch of drivers to some new kernel and driver API, but even out-of-tree (let alone in-tree) drivers don't necessarily lend themselves to that, and the comprehensive collection of in-tree drivers makes that a hard sell.

However, the arguments of Linux accumulating code and becoming less and less maintainable could precipitate into situations where alternatives spring up which take what they want or need out of Linux, without all the other crud.

Definitely seems like a possibility, though (to my knowledge at least) it doesn't seem like there are any projects going in that direction - I suspect because of the relative instability of the driver API (let alone the absolutely-not-stable-whatsoever ABI) and the more intertwined nature of kernelspace code compared to the userspace ABI/API.

pjmlp17• 5 years ago

If Google deploys Fuchsia on mobile devices, and then morphs it into something that isn't Linux compatible, it just won't be relevant; it's basically a step of retreating into a niche.

Android developers don't care about Linux, it isn't part of the official APIs, unless you are an OEM doing your own drivers and AOSP customization.

As long as Fuchsia runs ART (which they are already porting), and the official NDK APIs, Android users will barely notice it is another OS running on their new phone.

kgarten• 5 years ago

I guess there's a kind of humor in the video. Yet, for me Linux has seen by far worse days. I can,remember how Microsoft didnt want to work with us, because we used communist software ...

Also Linux is the most common OS on two planets in our solar system :)

A 42 min video with content that could be put in 5 minutes (not well reasoned at all, as missing WSL and other systemic threats, like right wing idiots) is just sad.

kazinator2• 5 years ago

Bryan could balance his perspective just a tad by dredging up example of old technologies that are used in production, even mission-critical roles.

Not everything that is old is used only by tinkering retrocomputing enthusiasts.

E.g. COBOL has had a much longer run than Linux. Not to deny that its glory days are long gone, if it had any, but it's deployed in important roles, not just something in the hands of retro-tinkerers.

There is also the fact that Amiga is specific hardware. DOS is also tied to specific hardware. Newer hardware still has compatibility to make DOS work, but at the cost of using a 64 bit machine with gigs of RAM as if it were a turbocharged version of an 80286 from 1985. Maybe an 80386, if a DPMI DOS extender is used.

For now, the retrocomputing enthusiast who keeps riding on the back of the supposedly dying Linux horse has a good desktop experience with a brand new computer, which is used to its full potential. This will likely be the case going forward, unless hardware fundamentally changes (like away from the Von Neumann model, type of thing).

Linux will be surely dead when it can't make use of the current hardware, when you need to resurrect (or emulate) legacy hardware to be able to play with Linux. (Even in that situation, it will likely be used in production roles, not just retrocomputing hobby situations.)

10GBps• 5 years ago

Eh, after using Linux mostly as my primary OS and 100% for servers for nearly 30 years I think Linux is only just now in the last 10 years started to come in to its own. The game isn't ending, it has just started! Linux is more than ChromeOS and Android. Everything Internet is Linux, IoT, routers, appliances, cameras, vehicles, the list is endless.

Fuchsia, being Google, will be as evil as Chrome. And it may be popular just like Chrome and Windows but that doesn't mean there isn't something better for users who care about control, security, and privacy.

There is no way in hell Fuchsia or anything else is going to run the Internet like Linux does. Even the alternate OS's like Fuchsia, Haiku, MacOS, etc don't have server versions. The mammoth Microsoft even failed at servers and they do have server versions.

Barring some unforeseen conspiracy, Linux is going to be around for a long, long time.

dcgudeman2• 5 years ago

Why is chrome "evil"?

pjmlp17• 5 years ago

I guess mainly because in about 5 years time Web developers can write ChromeOS developer instead on their skillset.

rurban• 5 years ago

IoT is not Linux. Most small embedded devices cannot afford a MMU, or the monstrosity of Linux. Baremetal or FreeRTOS/ThreadX or similar are enough. They don't need that much power, architectural overkill and security nightmares. Most of them are even formally verified.

throwawaysea• 5 years ago

As an aside, it’s great to see content on Locals and Odysee. We need these alternative platforms to succeed to diversify the technology utilities our modern society depends on.

justshowpost• 5 years ago

TL,DR?

pjmlp17• 5 years ago

He missed, on IoT space:

- NuttX

- Zephyr (ironically a Linux Foundation project)

- Azure Sphere OS (It might run Linux kernel, but very custom one)

- Azure RTOS

- FreeRTOS

- Mongoose OS

- Mbed

- Arduino

lucideer• 5 years ago

This talk is far too long and completely unengaging. I'm about halfway through and I would have fallen asleep if my frustration at how irrelevant the points made sofar wasn't keeping me awake.

I've nothing against long talks (this one isn't even very long) but it is too long for two reasons:

1. He's continuously saying with 10 words what he could easily say with 3. It's very artificially drawn out.

2. Most of the points (sofar) aren't relevant, which weakens the overall argument: making less points would make the each of them more focused and compelling.

On the (ir)relevance of the points made sofar:

- He spends an enormous amount of intro time talking up his apparent qualifications and how he's the only human on the planet qualified to talk about this. I don't care. Allow your arguments to stand on their own merit.

- Linux is apparently dying because "they" (the illuminati???) are trying to force Torvalds out of the foundation. What.

- Linux is dying because SUSE (a company he used to work for) is being sold. I've been running Linux for over 20 years and SUSE had already fallen out of relevancy when I started. I remember getting a copy of SUSE on a magazine CD, wondering why I hadn't heard of this distro, searching internet reviews and concluding it probably wasn't the future of Linux. It's 2021 and this guy is applying things he learned decades ago in his career as if they've retained relevancy. In his discussion of companies responsible for Linux health, Canonical isn't mentioned, and the general assumption is an ironically "Windows-ish" take that old corporate sponsors are the lifeblood of the Linux community.

- In person events are cancelled. Somehow the proposition here is that the worldwide pandemic is targeting Linux and Linux alone. What.

Linux may be dying out, and the second half of the talk may have some better arguments but sofar this guy has given me a lot of reasons to completely ignore anything that comes out of his mouth.

a0-prw• 5 years ago

I couldn't take more than a minute or so. I think people who believe they have something interesting to say should just fucking say it, if they want people to listen to them. That was awful.

garren2• 5 years ago

I don’t follow Linux kernel developments too closely, but if complexity in the Linux kernel is such a significant factor, then what prevents anyone from relying on a kernel without much of that complexity functionality built in (i.e., custom kernel)?

Are the changes described just too integrated? It’s been a while since it built a custom kernel, but I seem to recall knobs for everything.

mikewarot• 5 years ago

Linux has had an amazing run, considering Linus is on the wrong side of the debate with Tanenbaum about microkernels. It is going to implode.

Genode, at least, and likely the others, have a process for converting linux drivers into their own systems, of course there they aren't in the kernel. Because of this, the costs of getting a new OS up to speed aren't huge.

Fuchsia, Genode, and GNU Hurd are the top contenders in my opinion for the next step in systems. We've been layering band-aids to everything to try to make up for the lack of capability based systems.

Bold prediction: Once we get a capability based OS with a reasonable amount of adoption, all the containerizing of applications can go away, and you just throw things into a directory, and run it with ONLY the resources needed to do the job.

I, for one, won't miss Virus scanners, and the constant worry that a program might trojan horse everything.

Linux Sucks 2021 – The End of Linux Is Nigh [video]

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