Americans drove 9.6 billion fewer miles in May 2008, biggest drop in 66 years

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/miles-traveled-usa-may-2008-vmt.php

by MikeCapone • 18 years ago

29 61 18 years ago

orib• 18 years ago

What the green lobby can't do, it looks like economic pressures might be able to do.

It's a pity that the gas prices will probably drive higher usage of cheap coal, instead of more environmentally friendly alternatives like geothermal, wind, solar, and (dare I say it) most practically, nuclear.

Edit: Interesting typo in the article -- it seems that this month's usage was actually less than this month's usage.

xlnt3• 18 years ago

Who's fault is it that we don't have more nuclear plants?

froo• 18 years ago

I'm going to lay the blame fairly and squarely on the Simpsons.

Seriously.

The show is the only mass market show that I can think of that is continually giving nuclear power (in general) a bad reputation and because of its popularity amongst young people, it is helping to prevent the adoption of nuclear power, even though the technology is much safer than earlier implementations.

time_management4• 18 years ago

This is good news, but we still have the idiotic habit of using airplanes for mid-distance travel, due to the lack of a decent train system.

ars2• 18 years ago

That's fixing itself too - airplanes are so unreliable that people are using them less and less. That plus security checking, long lines, drive to the airport; and flying takes about as long as driving.

Hmm, what's better: fly, together with a bunch of people, or drive all by yourself?

Anyway, you'll see a lot of airlines go bust this coming year - unless they start offering on-time guarantees.

time_management4• 18 years ago

On-time guarantees will never happen, given the miserable shape the airlines are already in. This would further increase their costs.

I was stuck on the tarmac at Amsterdam's airport for 8 hours and got a EUR 50 voucher from Northwest Airlines toward a future ticket (yeah, right). I tore it up in front of the woman, and told her that anything less than a free ticket was an insult. This was in 2003, and if airlines weren't going to offer on-time guarantees then, they certainly won't do so now.

Frankly, I don't think it's high oil that is hurting the airlines, because they can (and almost certainly do) hedge against this by buying oil futures. I think the collapse of demand for first-class and last-minute seats is hurting them. The fussy rich people who used to demand 1st class, and were willing to pay 4x the regular price for 50% more space, now prefer to fly chartered or private planes. If you have a pilot's license, taking a family of four in a small plane is comparable in cost to 1st-class commercial. Also, the growth of videoconferencing is causing a massive decline in short-notice business travel, formerly a source of demand for overpriced late tickets.

neilc• 18 years ago

airplanes are so unreliable that people are using them less and less

Really? I think that airline travel was actually at an all-time high in the USA in 2007:

http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/air_carrier_...

tx2• 18 years ago

I upmodded you because I share your wish, but unfortunately what you're asking for is impossible.

Both of my parents have been railroad engineers all their lifes, and the main thing I learned was this: railroads are not economical at transporting passengers. Nearly all countries with "decent train systems" use government subsidies to effectively sponsor passenger railroad transport. Even subways can't make any profit.

And I am against paying more taxes. Period. Therefore, no government subsidies to Amtrak from me.

halo• 18 years ago

So contrary to the initial sentence, you're actually saying it isn't impossible just that you're just against funding it for other reasons...

time_management4• 18 years ago

I'm okay with paying higher taxes if I'm getting something for it-- cheap transportation, universal high-quality healthcare. It's paying high taxes to support Bush's war and tax cuts for the rich that I have a problem with.

The problem with the train system now is that it's dilapidated, expensive, and slow, which leads to low use, leading to disrepair... and so on. However, air travel is going that way right now, and something will fill the void. Trains at 80 mph are not competitive with airlines, but maglev trains are capable of 250+.

Xichekolas2• 18 years ago

... since we don't pay any taxes towards our road/highway system.

Private transportation is subsidized just as much as public transportation if you factor in the cost of all those eight lane interstates. It's all a matter of priorities.

I'm not saying that rail travel is a better solution... I'm just pointing out that no matter what way we go about it, the government will spend significant amounts of money. The Federal Budget allotted $67 billion for transportation improvement projects this year.[1] Add to that a huge amount spent by the states and local jurisdictions (I know my state roughly matches it's Federal grants with it's own money.) Contrast this with Europe, which spent 125 billion euros on road projects, and 73 billion on rail subsidies, and has three times as many people.[2]

You can't end a debate on rail travel by saying it's not profitable without subsidies. Roads would not happen without massive government subsidies either. Witness the need for the Eisenhower Interstate project to kickstart decent long distance highways in the 1950s.

Air travel benefits from the same things. If airlines had to build their own airports, ticket prices would be much higher. The airlines benefit from billions of dollars spent annually by states and municipalities to build nice airports, add runways, and run air traffic control.

All that comes out of your taxes too.

[1] http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot1507.htm

[2] http://reports.eea.europa.eu/technical_report_2007_3/en/eea_...

ckinnan• 18 years ago

We already give Amtrak over $1 billion a year in tax subsidies. The problem is that the company is a monopoly with no incentives to improve service or reduce costs. Passenger rail and subways can make a profit...the New York subway system was built by competing private subway companies, as was the initial national rail network. The problem is the unions and the government now have a stranglehold and there's no competition or innovation.

mdemare2• 18 years ago

But the government pays for the roads too. Isn't that a subsidy? And without trains or subways much more people would need to use cars - where would they be parked? Who would pay for all that parking space? Trains allow people who can't drive (or can't afford to drive) to travel.

And can you imagine the traffic in New York, Paris or London if the "unprofitable" subway networks were shut down? Society has a huge interest in keeping these networks running, even if it's impossible for a private company to start a new railroad and turn a profit.

There are a lot of variables involved here. Don't be too sure you see the whole picture.

sethg• 18 years ago

In the US, highways get an order of magnitude more government subsidy than transit (not just Amtrak but also urban subway systems, etc). Even if you treat the revenue from the gas tax as a user fee rather than a subsidy, there's still a huge subsidy coming from other kinds of tax revenue.

Chart and link to more info here: http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/22/highway-funding-the-la...

michaelneale• 18 years ago

I am pretty sure the London Underground is run at a profit, as are the private railsways that service the country side around London. Of course, the cost of using those services is pretty much the highest in the world, and they have pretty high population density, but still, pretty sure its run at a profit.

albertcardona• 18 years ago

Trains are not so bad. A major problem is the lack of a local area support network of public transport.

Example: there is a train from Los Angeles Union Station to San Diego. But how can one go to LA Union Station? From Santa Monica, Venice Beach, West LA, Pacific Palisades, etc. it's just plan impossible. The Metro bus is a joke: it takes over an hour, and likely you need a previous bus with added waiting times in between (and buses are unreliable because they have no exclusive lanes to avoid heavy traffic). A taxi is very expensive ($60+). You need a friend to drive you there. And once in San Diego the situation repeats itself.

Same situation, but a bit less bad, in the East Coast: nice trains from Washington DC to NY and Boston. While Boston and NY have very decent local transport systems, Washington's doesn't really go anywhere. Again one is stuck with $60+ taxis to go anywhere.

sysop073• 18 years ago

"US citizens drove 9.6 billion fewer miles in May 2008 than in May 2007, or 3.7% less. Yet May usually means an increase in traffic because of Memorial Day vacations and the beginning of summer."

I don't think Memorial Day being in May means May this year has an increase in traffic over May last year, that would've only made sense if they compared April and May

time_management4• 18 years ago

Yeah, I coughed when I read this too. The reason a May-over-May comparison is made is to take out the seasonality; Memorial Day is irrelevant to May08/May07 (or, as they would say in finance, 07K-08K).

jcl• 18 years ago

The confusion is due to selective quoting of the article's source:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/07/us-vehicle-mile.html

...which says that not only are we seeing a drop compared to last year, but we are also seeing month-by-month drops, which is unusual because May has historically been an "up" month.

mikeatlas• 18 years ago

The American government could have put a $3 tax on gas when it was $1, and the consumption would have dropped and all those oil profits could have been invested in renewable domestic energy development.

People would have screamed bloody murder then, but they're screaming now anyways. 20-20 hindsight.

soundsop• 18 years ago

But their anger would have been directed at the government rather than the oil companies, as it is now.

Prrometheus7• 18 years ago

You certainly have more faith in the effectiveness of social engineering than I do.

newt0311• 18 years ago

Umm... Supply and demand works... Not much in the way of news.

apollo• 18 years ago

Economics. It works, bitches.

stcredzero• 18 years ago

The other day my girlfriend, who is of Louisiana Creole extraction, commented: "I've never seen so many white people on bicycles!"

We live in Houston, and it used to be that most of the bicyclists you see in my neighborhood are Black and Hispanic guys who have to get to work but can't afford a car.

rokhayakebe• 18 years ago

Great. Can someone raise the gas price to 5 dollars. Sure my milk will be more expensive, but it will force more people to work from home instead of going to an office to drink coffee and take smoke breaks.

Americans drove 9.6 billion fewer miles in May 2008, biggest drop in 66 years

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