The Economics of Christmas Trees

https://thehustle.co/the-economics-of-christmas-trees/

by Anon84 • 6 years ago

213 157 6 years ago

sircastor2• 6 years ago

I was just discussing tree farm economics with the guy who runs the farm we bought from this year. Our normal place was closed this year, and he told me a number of his local competitors only opened for one weekend. The trees this year we’re on the short side because of supply issues from the previous years.

psbp• 6 years ago

This is because of the wildfires in the PNW, right? I remember hearing about this years ago.

sircastor2• 6 years ago

I believe it’s actually more related to the economic depression/recession ~2008. Fewer buyers in 2008 meant less space to plant new trees, which means fewer trees reaching maturity for this season. Coupled with a bad few years means more farms closing, meaning fewer trees available for a larger customer base.

Though I can’t speak regarding the fires impact on farms.

JKCalhoun• 6 years ago

Also was just musing about this since we cut a tree for Christmas yesterday.

I was feeling a but guilty harvesting a tree every year, wondering if fake was the way to go.

Reading the article made me wonder if neither choice was a good one.

It does look like "U-Cut" trees are cutting out the middleman(person) and putting money straight into the farmer's pocket. At $65 that's a much healthier profit margin than the $8-$10 they get selling to wholesalers.

And I suppose if there were made-in-the-USA fake trees that too could stimulate the local (U.S.) economy ... but that doesn't appear to be the case.

paulryanrogers• 6 years ago

Maybe buy a used artificial one, or just ask friends and relatives of they're getting rid of one?

For years I used my grandfather's old artificial tree. It's probably seen 30+ years of service and was still functional when we upgraded.

cm20125• 6 years ago

Every single thing you buy has the same economics. It's not really a moral thing to worry about. Retailers are not evil for taking a cut, they have a very competitive business as well.

Plus the farms are quite sustainable, there's no risk of overfarming Christmas trees.

aynsof• 6 years ago

I do wonder how the expert in the article came up with the assertion that fake was now environmentally friendly than real. Surely shipping a pile of plastic from China is worse for the environment than growing a real tree for 10 years.

Even if the plastic lasts for a decade, and the alternative is to buy 10 real trees over that same time period, I'd have thought the natural option would be better for the planet.

Negitivefrags• 6 years ago

Don’t feel guilty about harvesting trees. This is literally a carbon capture business. They are not cutting them down from the wilderness.

cm20125• 6 years ago

This is a great article.

cptskippy3• 6 years ago

I wish they explored the ACTA claims that artificial Christmas trees are more environmentally friendly than real trees.

Artificial trees are made from PVC and the by products of PVC manufacturing are highly toxic and historically highly polluting.

In order for that claim to be true under China's lax regulatory environment, either they have some revolutionary new method of producing PVC or farming Christmas trees is highly polluting. Either way, I would love to know the answer.

Sadly it's probably just a lie as the head of the ACTA is an artificial tree mogul.

bombcar2• 6 years ago

I suspect the disconnect is that the average fake tree is NOT used for ten years - probably closer to one.

robocat• 6 years ago

But trees or rotting trees can produce methane. Depends on tree variety, location, transport, and disposal.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170330190304.h...

As a heuristic, the amount you spend is approximately the damage, unless you know a lot about where the money is going. E.g. if there is a retailer involved then 50% of environmental damage is invariant.

Slartie• 6 years ago

This is really interesting. There seems to be a significant difference between the US Christmas Tree economy and the one in Germany.

We got our tree for this year a week ago directly from a grower in the local area where we always buy our trees. It is of average size (the 6'-7' size is also what we mostly consider a good size over here) and it only cost us 30€, so our prices here seem to be significantly lower than in the US. Also, I don't know anybody here who has a fake plastic tree - these aren't really a thing here, basically people either don't have a tree at all, or they get a real one.

sheeeep86• 6 years ago

We got our 1,7m large Christmas tree in Germany for 13 Euros, I simply don't understand how it could have been worth to let it grow for many years at this price.

Aeolun3• 6 years ago

To be fair, agricultural land is relatively cheap. And you basically just leave the tree there for 10 years, so maybe it works out?

tpmx• 6 years ago

Perhaps grown in e.g. Poland where land and manpower is lower priced, compared to Germany?

Ikea Sweden used to sell similar-priced christmas trees "farmed" in Denmark, but they stopped doing that after accusations that they were undermining local suppliers of non-herbicide-grown christmas trees. (In Sweden christmas trees tend to be expensive in cities and cheap/free in the countryside.)

jojobas• 6 years ago

It's not really labour intensive, you have to offset very little labour and rent of your 10 sqm of land (not suitable for any more profitable crop).

Some subsidies can play a role too.

kurthr• 6 years ago

The price from a grower (with 20-30% margin) is $30-35 or about the same. It's the fact that retailers (like always) have a 100% markup (50% margin) so if you go to a random convenience store it'll cost double and they'll make the money. No different from most consumer items.

Fake trees last forever... until you throw them away, and then they still last forever.

Aeolun3• 6 years ago

Fake trees last forever... until you throw them away, and then they still last forever.

Unfortunately they look like a fake tree forever too. It’s better than no tree at all, but not very inspiring.

freedomben• 6 years ago

This is becoming less true with pre-lit trees. We paid an astounding $700 for a tree and the stupid incandescent bulbs burned out and within a couple years the lights didn't work anymore (replacing bulbs did nothing). I was furious that Pottery Barn did not use LED lights in 2016 on a tree that expensive.

I ended up buying light strands and wiring them myself and I gotta say the final product, while eye bleeding expensive, is amazing. Unlike built in lights mine run all the way through the whole tree, into the middle. There are also a lot more lights now than there were before, and they have different plugs for colored lights verse white, so I can use smart plugs to toggle remotely for example. All in all a great end result, but it was probably $1,300 and 8 hours of labor to get there.

beerandt7• 6 years ago

About half of the US doesn't have an economically workable species/breed of tree unless they charge those higher prices. Virgina Pine grows well in the south (was the historical staple crop until 20~25 years ago), but doesn't naturally grow in cone shaped, and requires trimming/shaping and spraying multiple times a year for the 4-8 years it takes to get a marketable tree. Most southern tree farms have replaced V.P. with Leland Cypress (not really a cypress) or a similar/derivative breed of tree with promises of low/no required tending, but they also ended up having pretty high maintenance costs and don't market as well. (They look more like privacy bushes to me, and are also sold for that purpose at nurseries.)

So it ends up being cheaper/more profitable to ship trucks of harvested firs/etc from where they grow almost naturally, and "export" them clear across the country.

Also, the actual/current market for locally grown trees (at least in the south) is sustained 99% by people who still want the experience of choose-and-cut. And that also costs more to run than a commoditized crop.

lampenrad2• 6 years ago

Edit: Someone corrected me, I quoted the survey wrong. But here‘s another source (YouGov survey, 2012), saying that 43% had a real tree and 17% an artificial one: https://statistik-dresden.de/archives/5195

Also, I don't know anybody here who has a fake plastic tree - these aren't really a thing here, basically people either don't have a tree at all, or they get a real one.

Plenty of people in Germany have plastic trees. According to an Emnid survey from 2017, 1/3 preferred an artificial tree: https://presse.vonovia.de/de-de/aktuelles/171220_kuenstliche...

detaro2• 6 years ago

The question has to be translated as "Could you imagine using an artificial tree" or maybe "would you consider using an artificial tree", not "do you prefer an artificial tree".

js22• 6 years ago

I’ve lived in NC piedmont area (a couple hours drive from tree farms) since 2004 and basically paid $65-75 for a 6-7 ft tree every year. Every year but one we’ve gotten our tree from whatever corner lot was convenient. (One year we were late and only Home Depot had any trees left.)

There is either a shortage of trees this year or people shopped early. We got our tree earlier today and it was the last of two. They gave it to us for half off ($37 for a 6 ft tree) since it’s a somewhat sad (but fitting for 2020) tree. Once we decorate it it will look fine.

ghaff2• 6 years ago

I think more people shopped and more of them shopped early. My neighbor in Massachusetts has a Christmas tree farm and they opened a week early (weekend before Thanksgiving) to try to spread out the crowds. Ha!

It was very busy that first weekend. I actually notmally get a wreath from them but they were mobbed. I was going to go over early the day after Thanksgiving (the day they normally open and the next day they were open) before I went paddling later and it was just a complete mob scene. I'm not actually sure how they dealt with the crush given that they, like me, have a long one lane driveway and cars were backed out to the road. They sold out that day apparently.

butwhydotjpg• 6 years ago

Due to the long growing cycles for christmas trees, we're now entering a shortage caused by the 2008 recession, and it's expected to last a few years.

mNovak2• 6 years ago

The geography doesn't scale up for the US though. I imagine people in Oregon, near the growers, also pay less per tree.

jdlshore2• 6 years ago

I live in Portland Oregon and paid $40 for a 6’ noble fir yesterday at a small retail lot. Normally, you can bargain down the price (and judging by his tentative price quote, he was expecting me to) but I was happy with that price and didn’t bother.

my_username_is_• 6 years ago

Oregonian here. The prices at Ace Hardware yesterday were $40 for a Doug Fir, and $65 for a Noble Fir. A couple years ago I think I paid $60 for a Doug Fir. But you can also just pay $5 to get a permit from the Forest Service and go cut down your own tree. There are some restrictions (no trees over 12', and there must be other trees within 20' for example) but it's fun to hunt your own tree down--even if the tree that you get isn't a perfectly triangular cone shape like you may get at a tree lot

froh• 6 years ago

One of the key differences is the pruning and shearing during growth.

In the USA it seems more dense trees are preferred [US movie]

But TIL also in Germany some pruning is done, according to "Landwirtschaftskammer Niedersachsen" chamber of agriculture lower saxony [LK]

"Erziehungsmaßnahmen / Schnitt" educational measures / cut

[LK] https://m.lwk-niedersachsen.de/?file=26025

[US movie] https://youtu.be/qElwfYNmy6Q

nostromo• 6 years ago

I'll take this opportunity to share this cool video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08K_aEajzNA

blakesterz• 6 years ago

WOW! I know very little about what it takes to fly a helicopter, but I know it ain't easy. That is some amazing flying.

raviolo• 6 years ago

Could be the same pilots who do cherry drying: https://youtu.be/UBe9GEhc7pE

dlgeek• 6 years ago

So, I was fascinated by that video and kept asking myself "wait, that's a thing?". I found this great article by the pilot of the video that talks about the practice and economics of cherry drying: https://blog.aopa.org/aopa/tag/cherry-drying/

davidw• 6 years ago

We're fortunate to live near a national forest here in Oregon where we can get a $5 permit, and go cut our own tree. They're not so 'perfect' looking, but it's a fun family experience.

silexia• 6 years ago

I run a Christmas tree farm at a small scale. I wonder if real Christmas trees are actually worse for the environment than fake trees as many real Christmas trees are burned rather than sent to a landfill?

enriquto2• 6 years ago

Does it really make a difference to burn wood than to throw it away? I guess that after decomposition of the wood, all its carbon goes back to the atmosphere. It is just slower than if you burned it.

The biosphere is a closed cycle, we cannot probably use it to store carbon away by means of its own mechanism. Main problem is that we are adding new fossil carbon into it every day.

cm20125• 6 years ago

I've heard the opposite for global warming - burial is excellent for carbon capture (delays carbon release for a long time), burning is awful (releases carbon into the atmosphere instantly).

bombcar2• 6 years ago

Based on the listed sales numbers it appears a majority of fake trees are a one-year deal (maybe two). You can’t sell 25m fake trees a year if people are keeping them for next year.

minitoar• 6 years ago

Our fake tree is 30 years old, and made in Canada. We’re probably an outlier.

sokoloff2• 6 years ago

We had fake trees growing up. We had two over the entire time I lived with my parents. We have a fake tree in my house now. We bought it in 2007 before having kids and I expect that will be the only tree my kids will see. I can't imagine discarding a fake tree after less than 10 years, let alone 1 or 2.

phil21• 6 years ago

I think a lot of these trees being disposed of has to do with the integrated lighting strings going out and folks not dealing with debugging/fixing them when a new tree is $200.

I'm hopeful that with the advent of LED lit trees reliability goes up and there is less early waste of perfectly good plastic with a few busted lightbulbs.

detaro2• 6 years ago

I wonder what percentage of that is businesses. E.g. all the fake trees in a shopping mall: Do they buy and trash them? Do they rent them from someone who stores them? I kinda doubt they store them themselves, but maybe?

bigger_cheese• 6 years ago

My Parents still have the same artificial tree from when I was a kid, it has lasted 30+ years.

Here in Australia I think Artificial Trees are the norm, I've never really thought about it before, Possibly because Christmas is in Middle of summer and real trees would be difficult to keep looking fresh.

I always felt a lot of cognitive dissonance around Christmas growing up all the songs and decorations are about snow and winter but the weather here is oppressively hot.

Anon4Now• 6 years ago

Where do you live that does that? In my area, students and Boy Scout troops do fundraisers where they come around and pick up the trees. They take the trees to landscaping suppliers, who in turn them through a wood chipper to make mulch.

bpodgursky• 6 years ago

The parks department in our town always threw a bunch of old christmas trees in the local lakes, since submerged trees make good shelter for young fish, tadpoles, etc.

b06tmm• 6 years ago

Here in south Louisiana there is a special collection of Christmas trees and they are used in the fight to preserve our wetlands.

Article from last year: https://www.nola.com/gambit/article_5ab7222e-2e60-11ea-a845-....

Aeolun3• 6 years ago

Real trees have 10 years to filter out their own carbon, so I find that hard to imagine.

dctoedt• 6 years ago

In Houston, Christmas trees are collected, taken down to Galveston ~50 miles away, and piled on beaches to serve as anchors for sand dunes, which is good for the shoreline. As noted elsewhere in this subthread, the carbon trapped in the trees takes years to be released into the atmosphere through the decay of the wood and needles.

TiredGuy• 6 years ago

As I was tossing my dead tree onto the disposal pile a few years ago, a couple other guys were gathering trees from the pile. I asked them what they did with the trees, and they said they put them at the bottom of their pond. They're great for creating a fish habitat, apparently.

syrrim• 6 years ago

The trees absorb carbon as they grow, which is emitted when they are burned. Plastic trees, by contrast, will sit in landfill forever.

Tokkemon3• 6 years ago

Around here (NYC) the Sanitation Department collects them and turns them into mulch for the parks. It's a great way to recycle them without burning.

mensetmanusman2• 6 years ago

This process is a great carbon sink opportunity when you think about it so long as the tree is buried. Plastic trees should be disincentivized in that regard.

We need more tree harvesting + landfill themed activities.

JumpCrisscross• 6 years ago

Has anyone tried selling the plots in advance? Pay e.g. $49 today for a tree in ten years?

mNovak2• 6 years ago

For that matter, I assume there are christmas tree futures being traded?

gruez2• 6 years ago

Probably not, otherwise the dip in production after 2008 wouldn't have happened.

sneak2• 6 years ago

Startup idea: 10 year christmas tree subscription contract.

(Bonus points if you make it an ISA.)

fortran772• 6 years ago

My city, Sunnyvale, CA, has "free" tree disposal. I once complained to the City about why I had to subsidize someone else's religion. The answer made sense: the trees would be dumped if the city didn't collect them.

lotsofpulp• 6 years ago

Christmas trees are not religious, and is about as secular of a tradition as it gets.

fortran772• 6 years ago

All due respect, but you're free to observe your religion, I'm free to observe mine. Without forcing my opinions down other people's throats. That's what makes America great.

A Christmas tree has no place in my home.

missedthecue2• 6 years ago

These aren't communion chalices. Christmas trees have no religious significance.

DoreenMichele• 6 years ago

I hate Christmas because Christmas decorations get stored around 10 or 11 months out of the year and I used to end up on antibiotics every year at Christmas. Storing stuff like that tends to leave it covered in mildew.

I spoke once to someone who was allergic to Christmas trees and she was sympathetic. Everyone else typically hates on me for mentioning it. I'm a party pooper for not wanting to be deathly ill.

It also aggravates me to see articles with themes such as celebrating "the most Christmasy town in America!" that really mean the most gaudily decorated every year. No, this does not mean some spirit of giving where homeless people are gifted houses or something like that.

I also find it baffling that strident feminists haven't latched onto the angle that "Christmas promotes an evil patriarchy!."

Christmas used to be a time when poor people and children got gifts. Now it's a time when Americans load up their credit cards to engage in mostly pointless rituals that results in a mini depression every January and a chronic burden of debt on the country.

I'm not a fan and it has little to do with my general aversion to religion, though I found this article interesting enough to read and I posted the link to this HN discussion over on r/UrbanForestry. (Crossing my fingers and hoping no one hassles me about "Why on earth is this here??")

julianlam• 6 years ago

At an average retail price of $75 a pop, these trees make up a $2B+-per-year business.

Good lord, is this true? Why are they so bloody expensive south of Canada? We paid $25 for a Christmas tree from IKEA, and we got a $25 coupon to spend in the new year, which essentially made it free.

I mean, you can pay $75 for a tree if you want.. the local youth art theater does this as a fundraiser, and you can go direct to the farm and pay this as an "experience", but that price at a big box store, wow...

pastorhudson• 6 years ago

I was pretty surprised that Quarter Pine was featured in this article. We get our tree from them every year. I paid $60 for the tree and gave the guy who loaded it $5 tip.

The cool thing about Quarter Pine is they suspend the tree and drill a hole in the bottom of the trunk. They sell a special stand with a peg you put the tree on. It’s the slickest experience I’ve had with a real tree stand.

MivLives• 6 years ago

Everyone who discovers that type stand never goes back. The majority of places around here do it. Some with a drill which isn't always the best.

rdj9• 6 years ago

Timely. We just, as in a few hours ago, wrapped up our season as owners of a u-cut tree farm. It's relatively small, just under 30 acres. But our family was just doing a post-mortem on what went well, what we need to change and making fairly detailed plans for next year and even several years out. I can tell you more then you want to know about the growing, spring/summer and fall care. The shaping. The labor to trim, drill, bag, etc. It's fascinating to see the impact 2008 had on planting and the resulting shortage of trees these past couple of years. I don't have any real point other than, been there, doing that, have the t-shirt, ask me anything. Oh, and this part of the farm is basically a side hustle to my normal 9-5 infosec job. Merry Christmas!

fairity• 6 years ago

How do you expect market share between artificial and real trees to trend going forward?

From the outside looking in, the market share graph in the article seemed like cause for concern for farmers like yourself.

rdj9• 6 years ago

This gets into a bigger conversation about business models. For us, we are selling an experience that includes a tree. Artificial trees will not be able to replace that. But selling an experience is a low volume game and the revenue has to either be made up in price or via the addition of alternative revenue streams.

fach• 6 years ago

What's the strategy (both logistically and financially) for dealing with the 8-10 year maturity cycle of the trees? Also, I'd imagine it provides some moat for preventing new competition into the market.

rdj9• 6 years ago

For us, the biggest issue is trying to forecast what additional non-agricultural projects we may be starting in the near future that would be adversely impacted by a specific piece of land being tied up for 10 years. For example, we're building an event center (weddings, meetings, etc) that will also include outdoor space. As we work through what that will be like, we have to anticipate how that outdoor space would be used if there are trees there or not. Other than that specific example, we try to anticipate sales volumes and then map out the experience...then order, plant and maintain new trees accordingly.

dmurray3• 6 years ago

Is theft/security an issue for you? Mature Christmas trees must be one of the highest-value crops you can steal from a farm, and one of the easiest to fence.

gruez2• 6 years ago

Mature Christmas trees must be one of the highest-value crops you can steal from a farm

If you have the equipment/motivation to steal christmas trees, you probably could be stealing animals too. Those are proabbly worth even more than christmas trees, probably several hundred dollars each.

beerandt7• 6 years ago

One type of theft at choose and cut is often just cutting the top out of a much larger tree, and attempting to only pay for the size of what they cut.

People with 7-8' ceilings cut the top 6' out of a 12' tree bc they didn't like any of the younger trees.

rdj9• 6 years ago

It's not an issue on our farm. We have eyes on most of the property most of the time. We also don't stock any precuts, so a thief has to come on the property and do some amount of work to steal a single tree.

_2d30• 6 years ago

Successful season I assume? Seems like it's over early!

ethbr03• 6 years ago

Related to this, how do repeat-customers play in? I'm that a major target?

rdj9• 6 years ago

We cut our season off early due to the number of mature trees available. We're rebuilding and playing catchup. It was more important, particularly this year, that we were open rather than how many days. We get families that have been coming here for 30 years. If we miss a year being open, we risk losing them from coming back in the next few years. Our second metric was number of trees sold per day. We did meet or exceed both measurements.

ethbr03• 6 years ago

Are attractions at tree farms (that is to say, everything aside from trees) typically first-party (you) or external contractors?

I'd be fascinated in the experience value-add economics.

Said as someone who today bought a U-Cut 8' cypress ($56) at a local tree farm, a train ride (2x $2), baling ($2), three drinks + brownie + boiled peanuts (~$12). Thankfully, letting two quarantine-bored teenagers ride in the back of my truck around the farm was free. ;-)

rdj9• 6 years ago

Our place currently has limited attractions with several planned for next year. There is a gift shop that drives significant revenue, but was closed this year due to COVID. We offer free hot chocolate (small disposable cup). For the gift shop we have a multifaceted approach which includes buying things wholesale, making items in our shop, and partnering with other makers. Drilling and bailing is included in the price of the tree.

We are currently running the numbers to prepare for things like food/drink truck, sleigh rides, reindeer petting zoo, and some events.

cm20125• 6 years ago

Do you make more money from tree sales or complementary experience sales? Like hot cider, etc.

rdj9• 6 years ago

Right now, trees and gift shop.

cm20125• 6 years ago

By the way if you're looking for additional income streams, I know a place that does huge business with "pumpkin picking" (they buy commercial pumpkins and throw them on the ground in their property) as well as easter egg hunts (sample principle, with eggs with toys inside). It could work for you.

rdj9• 6 years ago

You must have tapped into our meeting...that's on the plan for next fall!

jmchuster• 6 years ago

I still very much enjoy my $20 fold-up tree from Walgreens with built-in lights. Just set up the stand, unfold it, and plug it in. And stores conveniently back in the original box, which even has a little plastic handle on it.

Tokkemon3• 6 years ago

I mean, if you don't have high decorating standards, then more power to you.

throwaway287391• 6 years ago

So it takes 8-10 years to grow a tree to maturity, and the profit margin for the farmer is $8-10 per tree. A farmer grows a tree for me to make a dollar per year. This is staggering to think about to me. Unreal.

infinitone• 6 years ago

Agreed... i don't understand why anyone would be in this business...

Tokkemon3• 6 years ago

It brings joy to millions of people every year?

sgtnoodle• 6 years ago

Presumably, the revenue is paying folks' wages, including the farmer if they do a share of the work. The profit in that sense is a return on investment, rather than the farmer's compensation. They business could make no profit but still give the farmer a healthy living.

gnopgnip• 6 years ago

At 6x6 spacing that is 1200 trees per acre. A 40 acre farm would give you nearly $50k a year in income. You can do this on fields that would not be suitable for most other crops, the startup costs are not out of reach for many. Trees used for lumber generally take 25+ years to harvest, the returns are generally lower.

etothepii3• 6 years ago

A Christmas tree here in Bermuda will cost North if $200 and come with an 8 hour queue so sadly this year we've passed. I would have paid $300 though to avoid the queue.

patentatt• 6 years ago

If I recall, Hawaii has a similar situation, where residents wait for “the Christmas tree boat” to arrive with all the Christmas trees for the whole island.

supernova87a2• 6 years ago

Are they worse for wear, given the week-long (?) journey to get there?

sneak2• 6 years ago

Why not go for an artificial one, then?! They look just the same, and will last many years, without annual waste and cost, and are less of a fire hazard.

etothepii3• 6 years ago

This is a good question. I could say, "an artificial tree won't make the house smell as nice", but I think this would be dishonest.

Ultimately it's because I like the tradition, if we had children I would have queued up for 8+ hours to get one as decorating the tree is one of my fondest memories from childhood.

An artificial tree just wouldn't spark joy in the same way.

acalzycalzy• 6 years ago

The economics of economics

ExcavateGrandMa• 6 years ago

here someone as done christmas tree out of wood sticks and rope... she put all sticks in parallel with the longer one starting from bottom to the short one at top all attached together... no Idea if u get the thing... anyway FUCk christmas :)

shard• 6 years ago

Apparently that's the new style of space saving Christmas tree this year (something like https://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/219573-Christmas...), I've been seeing it in stores both on- and offline. A few years ago it was the string of lights arranged in a tree shaped zigzag on the wall (like https://m.imgur.com/MnfslhA?r).

_carbyau_2• 6 years ago

I have a 2 yr old and I want him to have a brilliant childhood.

But we're not having a pine tree taking up space (we live a in 2bdr apartment), dying and making a mess for no good reason.

But then, there are so many Xmas things that don't make sense in Australia.

yitchelle• 6 years ago

don't make sense in Australia. That comment make me smile. After moving out of Australia to Germany, those crazy things (hot turkey dinners in 45 degC days) started to make sense for me. Enjoy your the Aussie Christmas!

_carbyau_2• 6 years ago

Thank you for the well wishes.

While much Xmas themed stuff doesn't really apply to Australia, thankfully at the moment neither does COVID! So we're pretty well off even before we get to Xmas fun.

Enjoy your hot turkey in the colder north! Best wishes for staying safe, well and having a great time with family and friends!

supernova87a2• 6 years ago

Interesting how this is not very much like the petroleum value chain, where the primary producers (oil+gas exploration companies) reap nearly all of the net profit.

I wonder if it's because retailers hold a lot of pricing power, and it's a quickly expiring asset, and many producers, and localized markets.

hasbot• 6 years ago

I bought a tree farm in Oregon in '98 after it had been clearcut. I debated between replanting it with christmas trees vs. timber and I couldn't see how christmas trees penciled out so I'm growing timber. The article mentions $60 for a tree, but here in Oregon I see many lots featuring $35 - $45.

pcmaffey• 6 years ago

Another alternative: live trees!

I normally hunt my own to cut in the hills, but a forest fire burned everything for miles... so we bought a spruce still in its pot from the nursery. It costs more and it’s smaller than our usual, but we’ll plant it outside in the spring when the ground unfreezes (note you can’t plant it after xmas because the temperature shock from coming out of dormancy while inside will kill it).

The Economics of Christmas Trees

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