Social anxiety is crippling my life, what can I do to stop it?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2462040

23 41 15 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Apologies if this is not the appropriate place to ask this question, I guess I'm hoping that there are other "introverts" on here that have been in similar circumstances and can offer me advice.

I turn 21 in a few months and I currently don't have any close friends and it is really starting to get me down. All through my life I've always been "that quiet person" and I have self-diagnosed myself with some form of moderate social anxiety.

I had a large group of friends during high school and somewhat of a social life but I mostly just tagged along with the group and never became close friends with anyone. Following the end of high school I slowly lost contact with these people. My anxiety kept me from making any effort to stay in touch even though I wanted to. It's silly, but my brain processed it like this "if they don't invite me to things I guess they are not interested in hanging out with me". Ever since then I haven’t had much of a social life outside of my university classes.

I'm not totally awkward, for example I did a great job when I had to do a presentation in front of my class. I was comfortable giving it because I was well prepared and I had already practiced it a few times. So I'm ok with public speaking but conversations scare the crap out of me and I can't seem to fix it.

After I get past the initial fear of starting a conversation I'm ok with small talk but I don't know how to have an interesting conversation. How do I go from meeting someone in class to becoming their friend outside of class? This simply doesn't come naturally to me.

I’m aware that I need to be more proactive and start working hard to build meaningful friendships rather than just letting them dwindle. Any advice on how to go about it?

johnny22• 15 years ago

You should probably start looking to see where folks of shared interests hang out or attend relevant events. It helps with both starting a conversion and keeping one going.

If things click then conversation will likely move outside the event and into people's own lives. That's when the friendships start.

YMMV(but worked for me)

anxiousThrowawy4• 15 years ago

Thanks, I'll start looking for events and meetups in my area. It's probably a good opportunity for me to get some other interests outside of technology too.

andrewstuart• 15 years ago

I don't mean to sound facetious, but it is simple - you must pick up the phone and maintain relationships by talking to people and organising to see them. No magic formula here, just take action.

anxiousThrowawy4• 15 years ago

You're right, I've been making this into a much bigger problem than it is. In the past I've always assumed that nobody is interested, I need to work on my confidence and assume that by default everyone is interested until they say no.

Thanks

danenania3• 15 years ago

You shouldn't really have to 'try' in a conversation. If it feels that way, it's fine to just be quiet until you feel like talking (if ever). Learning to be comfortable with silence around others is one of the keys to beating social anxiety. That horrible awkwardness you feel when you can't think of the 'right' thing to say is the core of it all.

Friendly quiet people are as well liked as anyone. If the other person feels awkward, so what? Let the encounter end. No need for you to feel awkward too. If you can learn to meet people without getting stressed out because you don't click with most of them for whatever reason, it becomes much easier and more natural to meet people, and you'll have a better chance of finding your kind of people amidst all the madness. Have low expectations and occasionally you will be pleasantly surprised.

The best way to meet others is to do things with people. Look for any possible way to do things you like with others, whether it's a hobby, sport, game, working, studying, painting, whatever. This removes the need for much conversation and the ones you have will be easier and more genuine because there's something to talk about that gets the ball rolling.

Also, it couldn't hurt to take mdma with a group of nice people if you get the chance.

anxiousThrowawy4• 15 years ago

I like the do idea. I've always been passive and waited for others to make decisions and organize the activity.

I'm embarrassed that I made this post now as I'm sure this is obvious to most people.

danenania3• 15 years ago

It may sound obvious, but it's pretty deep in easier said than done territory.

start_afresh• 15 years ago

I could say about a few things I notice about myself - I generally don't get past small talk only when I am too much in my head not thinking about the other person. Whenever I start thinking about them, I generally get past that hurdle (given that other person is willing, too). - Also, when I start judging people in my head, or trying to find out if being a friend with the OP would help me in someway, I lose the conversation.

This is what I try to do to fix it: - I try to be humble - without even thinking of bragging about anything (even if I should :)) - take genuine interest (without crossing the line) in OP (e.g. work, education etc) and reduce 'I's from the conversation.

As johnny22 said, join an activity/class you like or have been thinking of taking, develop an interest, and talk to people, respect them, discuss the activity with them; and smalltalk generally leads to 'hi-hello' and gradually to friendship.

All the best.

edit: grammar

bobbyfive2• 15 years ago

Rejection Therapy http://www.rejectiontherapy.com is a game that helps people overcome shyness and social anxiety by taking on small challenges. Each challenge increases your comfort zone and your confidence.

I've done the 30 day Rejection Therapy challenge and, while it wasn't easy by a long shot, it did help me immensely. I'm much more comfortable starting small talk with strangers than I was before.

Remember, your comfort zone is elastic. If you don't stretch it, it will retract.

bemmu2• 15 years ago

I'm curious about your experience, so please elaborate more if there's anything interesting you can share.

bobbyfive2• 15 years ago

Sure, hit me up on my email and I'll answer any questions you have.

grandinj• 15 years ago

If it stays bad, and doesn't get better, you may be suffering from a form of depression, and you may need some degree of professional help. Do it sooner rather than later, there is no point in suffering unnecessarily.

obtino• 15 years ago

If there's one book you read in getting over this, I recommend this:

How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/14...

It's definitely worked for me in helping tackle my problems problems with social interactions.

Swizec• 15 years ago

As a guy in a similar situation, the important thing to remember is the law of the conservation of energy.

Put energy into a system, energy has to come out somewhere.

In other words, if you make an effort with relationships, said relationships will make an effort with you. Personally I often simply forget to do this (rather than being fueled by some sort of anxiety), but really with modern means of communication there's just no excuse.

Go sit on facebook, when a person says something communicate. Like it, post a comment. Whatever. This alone is enough to build at least a bit of a relationship, then just ask them out for coffee. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get people out for drinks if you just so much as ask.

From that point on it's just about maintaining a sufficient level of contact, because that's really all that friendship is - closeness.

Oh and another thing to remember: "Hi" is an excellent ice breaker.

mitsche2• 15 years ago

I strongly recommend seeing a behavioral therapist. This is exactly the kind of thing they're trained for. It's what I did over a year ago, although for other reasons. It saved me a bunch of time and agony, although therapy can be pretty harsh sometimes as well.

Regarding social anxiety: I was pretty much the same at your age, and I think the reason was simply a severe lack of self-esteem resulting in excessive self-consciousness. One thing that helped me was to realize that everyone is insecure to some degree, and that everyone is at least a bit worried about what other people think about them. Once I had realized that, I tried to make other people feel comfortable around me instead of worrying why I felt so uncomfortable. But this takes practice and time, which is why I still recommend seeing a professional. And when I say it takes time, then I mean that it takes time to to overcome the fear to do the things you're afraid of. Once you've done this a few times (or even just once), change can happen very quickly.

Try to worry less about people thinking of you as "the quiet guy". They probably don't think as much about you as you believe they do. They mostly think about how they appear to others, just more moderately than you (hopefully).

I'm confident that you'll overcome your anxiety sooner or later if you don't just ignore the issue, which you're not doing. So chin up!

bemmu2• 15 years ago

What else did the professional tell you that helped? I'd rather just read a blogpost about it than pay per hour :)

fooandbarify2• 15 years ago

I am obviously not mitsche, but this is my experience:

I think it obviously depends on people's personal situations and circumstance. Anxiety in particular often presents in an almost paralyzing manner - being accountable to a therapist in that case is extremely valuable. It's also easy to dismiss certain ideas when reading them that a real live therapist won't let you ignore so easily - for example, I learned breathing and focus exercises that I would have felt silly trying if it weren't for my therapist. Possibly most importantly, a good therapist will understand your condition better than you do, and advise you accordingly. Not all anxiety disorders have the same cause or the same symptoms.

As far as payment goes, there are often cheap or free resources for therapy, especially for university students. For example, I made use of a free clinic run by my school's psychology department, which is open to the public.

mitsche2• 15 years ago

What fooandbarify said. Especially: a therapist holds you accountable. He or she will try to keep you focused on things that are unpleasant to keep working on, which is necessary in order to overcome a problematic behavioral pattern, whereas without supervision you might waste a lot of time trying to find shortcuts or esoteric solutions that make you feel good about yourself for some time but ultimately fail to solve your problems (productivity pr0n, anyone?).

And keep in mind that a therapist is also -- to some extent -- an analyst. So he or she might expose things you wouldn't have been able to figure out yourself, either because you're not professionally trained, or because you're part of the problem.

And sorry, there's no such thing as therapy by proxy. It's a very interactive thing.

fooandbarify2• 15 years ago

This is one case where seeing the number of upvotes would be valuable. There is a lot of (very well-intentioned) advice on this thread that it gets better with time, etc and while that is probably true, parent's comment is right on the money. Therapy can feel like a weird step to take but it really does work. Cognitive behavioural therapy and exposure therapy helped me deal with my anxiety much more effectively than I ever would have been able to on my own.

mgkimsal2• 15 years ago

"Try to worry less about people thinking of you as "the quiet guy". They probably don't think as much about you as you believe they do. They mostly think about how they appear to others, just more moderately than you (hopefully)."

Upvoted for this. I can't tell you how many life opportunities I've missed or wasted because I'd assumed other people thought a certain way about me, only to find out later they weren't thinking about me at all. While feeling 'ignored' may feel bad, I've come to realize that 99% of the time it's unintentional, and people just focus on themselves. That's it. Unless I give them reason to want to include me in something, such as, by being a good friend, interesting conversation starter, bringer of fun food, whatever the relationship calls for, they'll have no real reason to consider me as opposed to the other 105 things they're juggling in their mind.

Until I got older and started doing my own thing and realizing how much I was forgetting other people - unintentionally - did I realize how unintentional other people were being.

Generally, people aren't thinking anything about you, so quit thinking they're out to get you, hurt you, ignore, you, etc. Not necessarily advice for the OP, just a life lesson learned way too late in life!.

yason2• 15 years ago

I can tell you one thing: it gets much easier later because when you're older you'll think less about what other people think about you and more about what you think about other people. The other side of the coin is that you'll become much more picky about who you would consider an interesting person.

Another great divider that I've observed is that there are two kinds of people: emotional and analytic. The trick is to know (at least at the time) which one you are and which one the other person is, as they don't mix very well. Between an emotional and an analytic personality there's very little to talk about really because the world looks so different when seen mostly through emotions versus mostly through analytic cognition.

For example, if we have even an excuse for a common interest I hit it off easily with the same kind of a person yet despite the fact that I do have some social skills it's a fucking deadend with the other kind of a person. There's just nothing to share and nothing to tell that resonates at all with the other. Not even the weather actually.

danenania3• 15 years ago

"Between an emotional and an analytic personality there's very little to talk about really because the world looks so different when seen mostly through emotions versus mostly through analytic cognition."

Wouldn't seeing the world differently offer more to talk about?

yason2• 15 years ago

You could suppose so but lacking common words, common perceptions, common anything it becomes pretty hard to communicate.

At best you'll just end up arguing about the meaning of things—and usually the situation further implies a different style and way of arguing.

Not that you couldn't do meaningless smalltalk with just about anyone but that doesn't give much to either one, much less make them friends easily.

314l5926• 15 years ago

Well, emotional person feels like talking to robot, that's what I've been said. At the same time, I felt like talking to a child. Not much to talk about, as for me.

alexh• 15 years ago

This is a problem that I had down to the word ( except being able to give presentations, you got me on that ), and fixed.

Here is my short guide.

1: Read everything written here - http://30sleeps.com/blog/ , particularly the old stuff is relevant.

2: Find 2-3 groups of people who you know none of. Many people do this at university. This is a clean slate. Worst case, you never talk to these people again.

3: ( This plan does not involve becoming a drunk ) Booze. Varying quantities of it. In different situations. Watch how you act, if you act differently or get over your social anxiety, watch how you do it, and the results that you get.

4: Back to sober. Make an absolute fool of yourself being overconfident. Don't be a huge asshole, people do have feelings. Keep in mind things that you learned in steps 1 and 3. Watch what happens. Make mistakes. Do it wrong.

5: Apply lessons learned in everyday life.

That is abstract. Tangibly, I did 1, 3, then 2. Step 2 was local games of Manhunt, and university Debate. Step 4 was me acting much like my drunk self. Mixing in the behavior I saw in more confident people. I did this at manhunt and I did this on trips to debate tournaments. When it got too stressful, I listened to "Come on Sea Legs" by Immaculate Machine. Over and Over again. Gradually ramped it up, made myself say yes to every opportunity. Went out on a limb more and more.

It probably helped that debate forced me to stand in front of people and talk with no more than 15 minutes preparation. I was really really godawful at first, and got better. Remember, you will fail a lot. Don't do Toastmasters. Do open mic night, do karaoke, ideally do debate at your local university ( they will have absolutely 0 problem with this at most universities )

My end result was a personality which shares a lot with my drunk ( more honest, to the point ) self. It also shares a lot with the more confident friends I have had through my life. In no way do I feel that I am "faking" it (anymore). Getting rid of the social anxiety wholesale solved everything else. Including the not knowing how to have an interesting conversation.

teflonhook• 15 years ago

Go out to a nightclub and pop some ecstasy. You'll get over the social anxiety pretty quickly.

kls• 15 years ago

I know this is half in jest, but it is ashamed that X is not getting more attention and being taken serious as a mental health drug. We have such a taboo against anything that creates the dirty "euphoria" word in a patient. When some time euphoria is exactly what the patient needs.

I spent 2 years on Paxil for anxiety issues and spent 2 months sick as could be, in full blown withdraws, because at the time no one knew that Paxil would make you physically dependent (absolute worst withdraws I have ever been through).

Because Paxil was not euphoric no one seems to have a problem with the fact that it causes heavy physical dependance, even though it causes the same physical dependance as other "abused" drugs. I would argue worse, Paxil was the worst withdraws I ever went through, thousands of times worse than smoking or other substances.

Anyways, I am rambling. Point is, we as a society are so hypocritical, we claim we don't want to create addicts yet we hand out highly physically addictive substances like Paxil, but because it does not create euphoria, it is OK because no one is getting "high". We need to get past euphoria as a dirty word and start giving people that clearly have imbalances of chemical that make them feel good medicine that simulates or elevates chemicals that make them feel good. Trust me, the hell of feeling like crap is far worse than someone becoming dependent on a chemical that makes them feel normal. So I have to agree with the parent, get a small dose of X and see if it works for you, when it comes to mental health you have to find what works legal or not.

mgkimsal2• 15 years ago

"Self diagnosing" can be dangerous, and you should probably seek out some professional guidance as well - possibly two or three to see if there's any consensus.

I want to say I felt the same during the highschool->university transition. I think I did have similar attitudes for several years. One of the only things I learned during that period is that self-pity is not attractive or desirable on any level - eventually it wasn't even attractive to myself.

You may not be destined to have a lot of friends outside of class or work, and that's 100% fine. I've never had many friends, but I do work at having deeper friendships with the ones I do have, and I've found that's something that can only come with a mixture of time and experience. As we've grown up and apart, my few friends and I stay in touch, and it's been great. I'd rather have these few strong friendships than a bunch of the casual "hi-hello" kind.

You made all these "friends" in HS simply because of shared geography - everyone was forced to be in school, so there wasn't much of a choice. It's natural that most of those 'friendships' won't survive. Don't dwell on the fact most of them weren't solid or strong in the first place. Even if many of them appeared strong, solid and "for life", trust me, 99% of them aren't.

You may want to consider taking some acting lessons and/or public speaking lessons - joining a local toastmasters group, for example. If your public speaking is good, you'll naturally have a point of conversation with people, and that will naturally lead to many other tangents, yet in a controlled space.

One of the things I've learned over the years is that many people lack a self-confidence, or at least feel awkward in social situations. Not everyone, of course, but many more than I'd guessed. I'd assumed everyone else already had it 'figured out', and that assumption has led to some bad decisions over the years (based on assuming people were intentionally excluding me, for example). Be assertive/proactive, even when you don't feel it (that's where the acting lessons come in) and you'll be regarded as such - people judge you by the behaviours you exhibit, not what you think inside your head.

I consider myself an introvert - scored highly I on Meyers-Briggs for years - but most people who know me might consider me an extrovert these days. I may even have changed some over 20 years on Meyers-Briggs, but I still consider many of the core I traits to be mine. However, I've learned to be able to be 'on' socially, which has led to some good friendships based on professional interests, and some of those are leading to stronger friendships outside the original shared interests. Only time will tell for certain, but I'm enjoying seeing where they lead.

I also realize I'm now talking past your original point a little bit by not addressing the 'friends' thing as much as just 'being in public'. Being in public and groups of shared interests will lead to some friendships forming, but few will form if you're a wallflower who never talks to anyone.

Trust me, you can change over time, but you need to adjust how you think of other people, and you need to be forceful in getting what you want. If you see someone you think you'd like to know better, ask them to grab a cup of coffee, or instigate that with a few people from work or a local club. Meeting outside the regular group/work setting can let you develop/craft/express more of your own public persona without violating any of the norms of the original group. You can see how people react, and make changes accordingly. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Lastly, don't work hard at building meaningful relationships. Well... don't ignore them, but the most meaningful friendships I have are ones I don't have to 'work' at so much, because the other person is just as interested in keeping it going. My deepest friendships now started off very casually, at work/school, and in one case we really didn't even like each other at first. We each assumed too much about the other.

"Work" at friendships - yes - you need to sacrifice your own time for the other person, but if they're never giving back to you, it's not a friendship, you're being used, so get out.

You're young. You can change your life and attitudes and behaviours to be whatever you want. Don't waste this time.

anxiousThrowawy4• 15 years ago

Thanks. I've decided that I will talk to my doctor about this and I will ask him about going to a behavioral therapist. I can see that speaking to someone that understands will help me stay accountable. I've read material on social anxiety in the past but that hasn't had much of an affect and this thread has helped me realize that there is no need to continue to try and go it alone.

Thanks to everyone for their comments, I've read them all and I really appreciate the support. I'm determined to make this the turning point.

ianl• 15 years ago

I use to be highly constricted by my social anxiety when I was younger, I couldn't drive in a car, go to a restaurant, I couldn't eat in public, or during a family dinner.

The best thing I ever did was make the realization that what was holding me back was myself and knowing this allowed me to take a "fuck this shit" attitude towards the entire situation. Over time, I regained my life and was able to do things that are considered normal. I also went to a psychiatrist for a while to learn some coping methods like breathing exercises.

You can beat it, I still at times have problems with anxiety but they are nothing compared to what they once were.

My overall best advice is to get yourself in the proper mental state.

fantomas• 15 years ago

Hack: Accept yourself, and don't try to be social. This takes the pressure off of being social, and enables you to handle social situation in relaxed state.

You ain't perfect - nobody is. Remember and accept it.

Nox• 15 years ago

Talk to a professional. It's possible an anti-anxiety medication could have a profound effect, or simply talking through the underlying thought process that's keeping you isolated may be the ticket.

I have very similar thoughts and I can sympathize with how crappy it feels. I'm always worried that I'm doing or saying something stupid, and I can't really stop thinking that whoever I'm interacting with must think I'm an idiot. Knowing that there's a schism between reality and your perception of the situation is a good start though.

Something I'm starting to do is look for groups related to my interest that interact both online and in person. I'm really into iPhone photography, so I've been getting to know other local enthusiasts though Flickr and Instagram. Meeting in person is much more comfortable, since there's already some connection and common interest.

If you happen to be in the Toronto area, I'll take you out for a beer and we know at least 1 thing in common we can talk about. :)

GFischer2• 15 years ago

That's a good point. anxiousThrowawy, where are you located?

If you're in the Montreal area I might be able to find a therapist willing to work at least initially for free.

cafard• 15 years ago

Find things to do with other people: work,volunteer work, sports if you can do sports and don't dislike the level of conversation. If the conversation arises naturally out of what you're doing, it won't scare you; you'll be absorbed in the conversation rather than trying to figure out how to get it started.

But I agree with what seems to be the consensus here: talk to somebody like a therapist, who will have seen such concerns before.

[edit: spelling]

westiseast• 15 years ago

Take comfort in the fact that a huge number of people feel the same way - conversations with strangers or even friends can be nerve-wracking.

I had counselling for anxiety problems not too long ago. You are unique and so I can't offer any specific advice other than if you can afford it, or get it free (eg. in the UK on the NHS for example) then it will help, and you will feel better. Try to find a counsellor who has specific experience with anxiety or depression issues (most will) and talk to them openly about your fears.

If you can't get counselling, then find someone who's opinions you respect and try asking them about it. I was hugely surprised once I told people I was getting therapy, and many of my friends were in similar situations! It might appear like other people are confident and sociable and have loads of friends, but lots of people are just as scared as you are.

toblender2• 15 years ago

Start a new hobby, either singing, or acting. That's how I confronted my social anxiety.

GFischer2• 15 years ago

Several introverted coworkers swear by theater acting classes (and/or improv nowadays).

Seems to have done wonders for a few of them.

I've always meant to take some, but never got around to doing it (you can guess I'm prone to procrastinate :P ).

I did do some Tango classes, and I think they helped (though I'm still clumsy).

toblender2• 15 years ago

Life is all about practice. No one is born knowing. As for procrastination, I find identifying the very next step that can be done in 5 minutes can push a project forward. For example, acting classes, a possible first step is, spend 5 minutes on craigslist and see if there are any classes nearby. Call them up and inquire.

AmberShah• 15 years ago

I pretty much suck in a group setting. I mean I can follow okay, of course, but I rarely interject anything. This used to bother me but now I have mostly accepted this is the way I am. In a one-on-one setting, I am much more "normal". I talk a regular amount and if it's something I'm passionate about, I talk a lot. So I am rarely in large groups of friends, as some people are, but rather have a few friends that I hang out with individually. And the people that I do tend to hang out with tend to be outgoing types, or at least talkative people, so that we complement each other. All of this is just to say, work with what ya got, rather than trying to be someone you're not.

As for how to get from point A (small talk) to point B (friendship) I would just keep in mind a few upcoming things and take the opportunity to invite someone out when it arises. Like keep tabs on upcoming events (concerts, festivals, etc) that sorta interest you and then if there's someone you want to get to know better, just mention it and see what you think. Or even if you mention that you both like roller blading (or whatever) you can make an open ended offer to invite them out. Even if they are not interested in that particular thing, if they want to get to know you better too, they will offer something back, then or later. Some people will say always say yes but don't mean it, but that's pretty easy to spot when they don't follow through, but no biggie.

I met a mom at random at a park and she mentioned that she wanted to do more playdates with her kid, and I offered that she could call me and we could set one up, and now she's my best friend. I've met lots of moms before and since, and some we even met for a playdate, but we didn't click as well so we didn't really make a friendship out of it. I think when it comes to making friends, I would say, cast a wide net early on and just be really open to hanging out with people without the pressure of this being a long term friend.

marajit• 15 years ago

Some people just aren't cut out for society. They're called outcasts and they're either stood on or revered as Gods, in India anyway. Here they're just stood on. Most important is not to have unreasonable expectations of how to fit in. Freedom from hope or fear - that's the goal. Watch your mind - that's the method. And if you like, send me your birthday, time & place and we look at the hand you were dealt: j.v.a.l.a.m.a.l.a@g.m.a.i.l.c.o.m

EvanK• 15 years ago

Step 1: Talk to a mental health professional. I know you probably think that whatever's bothering you isn't serious enough to talk to a shrink, but when you have no friends to confide in, that is EXACTLY what you need.

Step 2: Find people like you. Look on Meetup.com for groups of people with shyness or social anxiety. You'd be surprised how comfortable you can be in a group when you know everyone else in the group has the same irrational fear of social situations.

Two simple steps and, given time, you'll feel better and even start becoming more outgoing. You won't turn into an extrovert, but it's all a game of inches.

I also find that, in small and controlled doses AND ONLY IF YOU HAVE LOTS OF SELF CONTROL, social lubricants like alcohol or marijuana can also help to overcome social anxiety. Your mileage may vary, so always err on the side of caution and avoid anything of that nature that you don't KNOW for a fact that you can keep yourself in control of.

Social anxiety is crippling my life, what can I do to stop it?

Related Stories