Ask HN: Is There a Manual for Babies?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23901803

by martingoodson • 6 years ago

24 42 6 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I'm going to become a father soon. A friend of mine told me he really wished he'd been given a manual so he could have prepared better for fatherhood.

I'm guessing if there was a book written for the scientific or engineering parent this would be the place to find it.

Any ideas?

speedgoose• 6 years ago

Fist, congratulations. You should enjoy your last good sleeps before the birth.

I got one baby manual as a gift : https://www.amazon.fr/Baby-Owners-Manual-Instructions-Troubl...

It has some funny moments but it's only the basics. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, but your country may do things a bit differently.

alexandrerond• 6 years ago

Yes, there are manuals, but I think approaching a baby like you approach a toaster is the worst approach you can make.

Sure you will have to Google shit like how many bananas are ok for a toddler daily, and talk to nurses, doctors, other parents but don't treat your baby like the equivalent of your new company's kubernetes cluster (a horrible engineering problem to figure out).

See, all babies are different. This will be your baby and guess what, the baby is the manual, so read it. In the meantime relax and enjoy your current life one last time.

Gibbon1• 6 years ago

My parents. You have a kid. You figure out quickly that a lot of advice doesn't apply. Figure the kid out. Have another kid. The stuff you learned with the first doesn't apply.

idoh• 6 years ago

That would be awesome but unfortunately there is no generally accepted standard. Approaches vary widely.

When I was expecting my first child, I reviewed all the parents I knew of, and picked the family that I thought was doing the best job, then interviewed them and wrote down notes and that became the plan.

sloaken• 6 years ago

Congratulations! Short answer ... kids do not want stuff nearly as much as they want to spend TIME with you.

The 'what to expect ... ' series is great techie style. Plain spoken. Explains limits on both sides...

They have one for before the baby.

And another for the first few years. Common problem, my child is age x months but has not started walking / talking.

Great for the calming the nerves

auslegung2• 6 years ago

Fortunately yes. Unfortunately, it's a cultural memory that the Modern West has lost because 1) we don't live in multi-generational homes and 2) we don't live in (truly) close community with other families throughout our lives

dyingkneepad2• 6 years ago

While I understand your point, I would like to point that scientific research has found out the best methods for a lot of things regarding raising babies. Advice from our elders (what you seems to refer as 'cultural memory') is often wrong. What worked for them may not be the best thing to do, they had n=1, science has n=millions. There is a huge problem that scientific findings regarding raising babies does not get transferred well enough (if at all) to the population.

auslegung2• 6 years ago

I’m talking about cultural memory and community on large scales, where generation after generation is devoted to the thriving of its community and the people in it. I think the best way I can explain it is to recommend Wendell Berry‘s essay The Work of Local Culture. I’m not saying modern science has nothing to say, but I do believe that as insightful and beneficial as it is in this context, local community and culture would be even more-so.

stakkur• 6 years ago

Father here. Mom and I agree on two things:

1. Avoid the 'What to Expect' series at all costs. It's popular, but it's utter bullshit. We can name a half dozen parent friends who threw theirs away too.

2. Read Penelope Leach's Your Baby and Child.

But these are just guides; there is no manual. Unlike technology, no two children are alike. You'll only get the hang of it through firsthand experience.

And: 'baby' is a mere blip on the developmental path--that brief stage of a few months is the 'easy', honeymoon part. Trust me: by the time you've gotten the hang of 'baby', they'll be a toddler. When you've learned to handle a toddler--they turn four and ohmygod. You don't have a 'baby'--you have an ever-changing, ever-developing human.

apohn2• 6 years ago

Avoid the 'What to Expect' series at all costs. It's popular, but it's utter bullshit.

I don't really agree with this for the first book. The main issue with the 0 - 12 month book is that it tries to cover a very wide range of things, many of which will not apply to your child. So you have to read it and just find what is useful for you. For example, we never knew that lots of babies get terrible gas in the 3rd(?) month and that's completely normal.

There's so much "normal" stuff that seems like something is seriously wrong (e.g. gas, witching hours) with your child. Reading about it just helps to know you're not failing as a parent.

I'd agree that the other books are not that useful.

dyingkneepad2• 6 years ago

I try to follow a lot of "attachment parenting" theory. Read material on that.

I also did co-sleeping, which means I actually was able to sleep, but doctors in my country seem to be all against it since that's the current common practice. Read all of https://cosleeping.nd.edu/ .

My wife also read a lot on breastfeeding. There's a lot of science behind 'how to successfully breastfeed' and there's a huge chance all the advice your elders are going to give you is completely wrong. Read what modern science has to tell you about breastfeeding, ignore grandmas as much as possible! This stuff should be taught in schools.

The tl;dr of my manual would be like something:

- be in contact with the baby (preferably in mom's or dad's hands) as much as possible

- when they cry, give the breast first, ask questions later

Edit: learn that modern society's expectations that both parents work really sucks when there's a baby in the way. Mom going back to work when baby is 4-6m is not good for the baby. If you can financially afford to not to it, you should. If you can have one of the grandmas do the babysitting is alleviates the problem a little.

Jemaclus• 6 years ago

Given that every human on this planet was once a baby, I've often thought that it's kind of weird that we don't have more _data_ about raising a child. Like, I know everyone's a unique snowflake blah blah blah, but we're not THAT different. If we were, we wouldn't have shared hobbies or like the same clothing or tolerate the same foods. Looking at babies, for instance. OK, your baby is crying. There's a checklist (somewhere) of why the baby might be crying. Maybe they're hungry, maybe they're tired, maybe they pooped their diaper, maybe they're too hot or too cold or have something stuck up their nose or don't like the smell of your cologne. But there's a finite list of possibilities, and surely -- SURELY! -- there's enough data out there to give you best practices for determining which of the things it is and what to do when you find out. Like maybe if they're crying because they're hungry, you just straight up feed them, or maybe science shows the best outcomes are when you let them cry it out for 30 minutes and THEN feed them.

I don't know. I'm not a baby scientist.

Long story short, there are potentially billions and billions of data points out there, and surely some sort of meta-analysis could surface some best practices for how to raise a child. It can't just be "reinvent the wheel" every generation. That's just bonkers to me.

Given all the other scientific advances we've made in the last few centuries, I sort of wonder why nobody has an IKEA-style guide to raising a child.

I say this all a bit tongue-in-cheek, since I'm not a parent, but as a person of science and a fan of data-driven decisions... The way Americans like me raise a child is basically "figure it out for yourself with a few anecdotes from your family and friends and maybe you read a bunch of books full of conflicting advice and don't worry at least if you're trying you're ahead of most people" just strikes me as... well... not very scientific or data-driven!

Anyway. Congratulations! I wish you the best of luck, and who knows?! Maybe you'll be the one to write The Book!

apohn2• 6 years ago

One book I wish I had known about was "Precious Little Sleep" by Alexis Dubief. You don't have to follow everything, but having some guide to your babies sleep needs and will be helpful.

Honestly, forget the manual. Get help with either taking care of the baby or with household stuff. Get family to come, pay somebody, whatever. If you aren't comfortable with paid help to take care of the baby, pay somebody to clean and cook. Having healthy home meals ready is going to save you a lot of misery.

Babies are actually pretty easy from a task perspective. Sleep, eat, poop, diaper changes, playtime, tummytime, etc. What takes the toll is how many times you have to do this stuff combined with sleep deprivation.

Get help and emotional support. That will do much more for you, your relationship with your partner, and your ability to be a parent than any manual can do.

Also a note on pediatricians. A lot of pediatricians are fairly easy going in that if the baby has no major symptoms (e.g. no fever, no vomiting) is gaining weight, there is nothing to worry about. This is actually a good way to look at things, but it's definitely hard not get frustrated with this easy-going approach when you have this little person in your arms and you're totally overwhelmed.

sterlinm3• 6 years ago

I second the recommendation for Precious Little Sleep. I bought and would recommend the book, but you can also get a lot of what you need from these blog post but the author.

https://www.preciouslittlesleep.com/what-you-need-to-know-ab...

That was enough for a while and I believe I didn't actually buy the book for at least several months. Then I bought it at 2am during a particularly rough sleep regression. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My main caveat for sleep advice is that you need to take it all with a grain of salt because whether any particular strategy will work depends on the parents and kids temperaments, along with a variety of other factors. YMMV and don't let anybody else's success story make you feel bad. They're probably leaving out the worst parts, possibly because their brains have literally blocked out the memories of them.

tweezy• 6 years ago

I found this book to be extremely helpful. https://www.amazon.com/Moms-Call-Basic-Baby-Months/dp/098541...

There's a section on typical days that really helped us orient our days. We also found that by following this schedule our baby started sleeping from 9:00 pm - 5:00 am at around 7 weeks. And by 12 weeks the baby was sleeping from 7:30 - 6:30. Other friends have seen similar sleep patterns.

muzani2• 6 years ago

As someone whose parents were actual child psychologists, and a wife who's professionally certified in child care, I don't think the manual helps. We've seen all the manuals and even written a few, and they tend to be pseudoscience, even the ones written by academics. There's lots of data on what children do, what ages they do it, why they do it. But most of it is not helpful; they are simply manuals. A lot of it is not field-tested, just logs.

Things you should be aware of like Terrible Twos, which is the age where they want agency over the world and try all kinds of behavior to see what they can impact.

In the early stages, you should also be aware that sleeping is a skill. Many babies don't learn it properly. Many kids fall asleep because of coddling and such, and can't figure out how sleep without that routine. There's a lot of advice, about how to put your baby to sleep based on this principle. Ignore half of it and figure out what works for you.

There will be lots of crying and sleepless nights. Babies who sleep late are tired. They don't get enough sleep. Then they can't sleep because they're too tired to sleep. And it's a nasty cycle. Try not to bring your baby out at nights unless absolutely possible.

In general, what works for us is treating them as newbie humans. Instead of spanking or forcing them, try to convince them. Sometimes this means letting them get hurt. But do it in a harmless way, like letting them bite a raw onion when you told them not to, or touch a hot-but-not-scalding bowl of soup.

They will imitate what others do, especially their ages and their parents. Put them in good company. Every child is a different human; a big part of it is nature. So never compare your child with another. You'll see some babies with egos, some are kind-hearted, some are stubborn, some are selfish, some are violent.

The good manuals are probably those with instructions, and not so much those with psychology. It's a bit like diets in that sense (both the good and bad). Good luck and congratulations!

boredatworkme2• 6 years ago

This is good reply. Can you shed some light on what apart from coddling can help a baby sleep? Is there a way to try and make the baby pick up that skill, like you've mentioned here?

In the early stages, you should also be aware that sleeping is a skill. Many babies don't learn it properly. Many kids fall asleep because of coddling and such, and can't figure out how sleep without that routine.

sterlinm3• 6 years ago

Every kid is different so YMMV. In my experience (N=2) the biggest factors were:

* Full bellies (more milk!) * Dark rooms (blackout curtains) * white noise * Consistent routine (more relevant after 6-9 months)

For us the general idea was that we wanted to be able to put them down in the crib awake so they could learn to fall asleep on their own rather than always nursing/holding them until they feel asleep and then trying to put them down. I cannot stress enough that every kid (and parent) is different so your mileage may vary.

https://www.preciouslittlesleep.com/what-you-need-to-know-ab...

muzani2• 6 years ago

The three big things are rhythmic motions (swinging, car rides, bouncing), sucking, swaddling. (Dr M. Weissbluth) Sounds also seem to a big thing - I think they like low frequency noise like daddy's humming. But lullabies and conversations work too.

The advice I got from a professional is to swaddle the baby by 6 PM, put the baby in a room, by themselves, and let them fall asleep. Sometimes the baby will cry for a period of time before they find a way to sleep. If you help them out while they're crying, they won't pick up the skill. Leaving a baby to cry alone in a room seems a little cruel, and it didn't work for us, because we couldn't muster the resolve for it and because some other family members wouldn't take it.

What I prefer to do is to preemptively do the calming behaviour before bedtime. Like swaddle the baby and take her for a stroller ride at 6 PM. And then mix it up and gradually reduce it. The routine itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but avoid it being anything you wouldn't do every day for a year, e.g. breast milk before bed, or carrying them around.

Our first daughter didn't learn to calm herself until around 3 years old. Second was about 8 months. It was a relief when she learned to suck her thumbs before sleep, as that's self-reliant.

You'll also want to deal with colic very early on because that's usually the #1 cause of a cranky, difficult baby. There's a lot of home remedies for mother and child and a good number of them is to prevent colic for this reason. Whether they work is up to experimentation. We are skeptics and would avoid the usual home routines to see what happened. Next baby we'll follow everything.

stevekemp2• 6 years ago

and they tend to be pseudoscience, even the ones written by academics.

Very true.

And you will find yourself inundated with advice from other parents, constantly. Each will tell you their perfect system/approach for dealing with a particular problem, and the this will be met with opposite advice from another.

The thing to remember is that there are things that are broadly true of all children, but children are individuals. Even at a tiny age.

I know people with seven year olds who won't sleep for more than 2 hours at a time. I know people who've had babies that slept overnight, with no screaming/issues from 9 months onward.

My only real contribution here would be to suggest "cloth diapers". They're easy to work with, if you have decent laundry facilities, and they'll save you a fortune over the use of disposable ones for the 1-4 years you'll need them.

Regardless of good/bad sleep and adaptation take some time to yourself, and make sure you give your partner space, regularly. I've known people who've never gone out until their child was five! It's rough the first time you leave your baby with a sitter/friend/neighbour, but it's crucial for your well-being to have at least some time out/off/away.

mdparker89• 6 years ago

There are some books out there that cover the very little that we do know (I've read a bunch of them) but the big takeaway is that we don't know a lot. The reason is that you can't create great studies with babies.

The good news is that you don't need to "fix" or "maintain" a baby. They need their basic needs met, they need to feel safe and they need love. Do that for a year and then you get a toddler.

wkearney99• 6 years ago

This was a fun read. We still joke about "keeping the unit fed/clean", and he's twelve now.

https://www.amazon.com/Baby-Owners-Manual-Instructions-Troub...

Is it the best? No, but it's not just a joke either. Lots of simple things, covered in a lighthearted 'like a car manual' kind of way.

With a newborn, sleep is your challenge. We discovered my wife needs 8 hours, but can be interrupted. I need 5 and CANNOT be interrupted. So I handled things until 12:30am and then Mom took over until 6-ish.

And on that note, during the first few months, if one getting out of bed wakes the other, consider the couch or a guest bed. You do not want to let notions about marital sleeping together turn into being sleep-deprived and hostile toward each other.

If breastfeeding doesn't 'take' right away, get on the phone and have a lactation aid come help. Every kid/nipple situation is different. Trying to figure it out on your own, while sleep deprived (see above) is maddeningly difficult. Hire a guide to get it sorted.

Bear in mind, some kids are slow feeders, so that 4-hour feeding interval might be closer to 3 hours.

As the kid gets older I found it's best to not ask the open-ended "what do you want to do?" Because that leads to tears when the impossible can't happen. Rather have 3-4 plans YOU want to see happen and present it like THEY get to choose. You help them learn agency without setting the situation up for failure.

And it's not until they're about 2.5 years old that they won't accidentally kill themselves. It's up to you to make sure they don't walk into traffic/off ledges, eat/drink something bad, pull furniture/stove pots over on themselves, etc. But at about 2.5 they start to realize they've got some skin in the game and start exercising a little care. I emphasize START, you're still on duty to keep an eye on them.

I was fortunate to be able to handle being Dad at home. It was fascinating witnessing the bias. As in, when we were out and about, people (often women) assuming that it was just a single "Day out with Dad"... oh no, dearie, EVERYDAY was Dad day. And during kiddie gym/exercise/music classes it wasn't until they realized I clearly knew more about strollers/diapers/formula than they did that mothers started to come around.

Pro-tip, babies don't understand words. They do understand emotions. It seems obvious, but yelling at them or telling them not to do something in a drawn-out sentences is as useless as yelling at the goldfish.

Help them, guide them, let them see you as someone they can trust and that loves them. Don't set them up to see you as angry/stressed/disinterested.

stevekemp2• 6 years ago

I remember the bias; in my case I was never sure whether it was because I was the only father at the local playgrounds, or whether it was because I was the only foreigner there.

But I will say that while children don't understand words (so much at the start) they really do pick up on tone of voice, and emotion. Sometimes there's an instinct urge to shout "Nooooo!!!! Stop!!! Don't do that!!" when a baby/toddler starts doing something dangerous. It'll happen when you least expect it - don't beat yourself up, and try to remember to speak calmly and clearly.

austincheney• 6 years ago

The best manual is a proper set of expectations... readjust your reality accordingly:

* Plan on getting about 4 hours of sleep per night at first. Sleep where you can find it and avoid stimulants.

* Your female delivery counterpart (I don't know your relationship status) will suddenly realize this is her new life: locked between a child, obligations, and without a swimsuit model body. Depression and self-doubt will follow. You have to be a team player even without sufficient sleep.

* Infants require a lot of time constantly and are tiring. Think of this as having a full time job that pays money with great reassurance and respect. Then you come home to another job that costs money, is extremely tiring, and is filled with risk.

* Getting refridgerated breast milk the right temperature at feeding time is far more time consuming and challenging than you could possibly imagine.

* Your 2 door sports car is now a hinderence. Trade it in for anything with 4 doors and excellent suspension.

* Your 1 bedroom apartment won't work. If you already have a child your two bedroom apartment is a struggle.

* If you are an extrovert your days of late night social activies and parties are over. First of all you will be too tired for any of that nonsense. Secondly, it becomes such a low priority its simply not worth the effort.

* Prepare to enjoy life as a secluded homebody. Going out to movies and fancy dinners is a nightmare.

* Hopefully you have been saving money. Everything in life just become more expensive, except car insurance.

* Get a cat. Cat fur greatly contributes to dust and all the problems that with that which is great for strengthening the immune response of small children.

* Family will give you gifts. Figuring out where to put all that stuff can be a real challenge.

---

There are a lot of benefits too:

* Children are great for self-reflecting upon your time management and money management skills.

* Children are a solid performance gauge of whether you are a narcissist or are humble.

* Having children completely recenters your perception of the world in a way you cannot understand otherwise.

chrismatheson• 6 years ago

Personally I found (observing the difference between my own experience and some of my friends) that ignorance can be bliss.

I didn't read the books, and muddled my way through. Sure there were some things I learnt slower (like the benefit of routine) but overall I had a lot less anxiety about milestones or stages or all that stuff. Stormy days??! yeah ok whatever.

My main advise (for the first year at least) would be to listen to all advise, then throw out pretty much any "plan" and live 100% in response mode. Respond to what's going on hour to hour, don't get hung up about sleeping in the middle of the day or having breakfast at 4am, just do what feels right at that moment.

Also, when your friends ask what they can get for the baby etc ... HelloFresh, Deliveroo, or come round to my house and do the laundry while I sleep. You will not be short of baby clothes, but you will be short of energy to do some basics stuff.

duabutt• 6 years ago

Nice

TheGrumpyBrit• 6 years ago

Hayne's manuals are always a traditional go-to: https://haynes.com/en-gb/baby-manual-3rd-edition

boredatworkme2• 6 years ago

May I recommend: Be Prepared - A Practical Handbook for New Dads by Gary Greenberg and Jeannie Hayden.

I've been casually reading this and it seems pretty good and covers a variety of topics.

duxup• 6 years ago

Not a lot more at can be said in here, but I'll just mention the most common mistake I find folks make about babies and sleep. Other folks have touched on it but I want to reiterate this.

Good sleep, makes for more good sleep when it comes to babies. If a baby sleeps well at night, they'll often go down for a nap really well.

Bad sleep, makes for less sleep and a cranky baby. If a baby goes to bed late, they'll often have trouble falling asleep / aren't likely to 'sleep in.'

You and I if we stay up late at night we can sleep in and recover that time. Babies generally do not work that way. Once they get behind on sleep they'll wake up bright and early the next day or even shockingly wake up in the middle of the night even though they're tired. ... won't be able to go back to sleep.

Skipping naps or staying up late are terrible ideas, the baby won't likely sleep later when you need them to.

Find a routine, that might involve singing, a bath, etc all before bed / nap time and stick with it.

Now having said that, that isn't a recipe for a great sleeping baby (that's more luck than anything IMO) but it will generally make things easier.

tmaly2• 6 years ago

I don't think there is a manual, but here are some tips I can think of off the top of my head.

Read Bringing Up Bébé: One American Mother Discovers the Wisdom of French Parenting. The chapter on sleep cycles is important.

Child proof your place now, you won't have time later.

Do not let the child sleep in your bed.

Always keep a pack of the next size up diapers on hand.

Kids cloths seem to run small. They also outgrow stuff super fast. Don't buy too much of one size.

Cribs all have to meet safety standards, so don't overspend.

You are only going to have time for one hobby if you are lucky, so make that choice now which one it will be.

Read to your child as much as you can.

toto444• 6 years ago

I would add one : when you look after you baby/toddler, don't be tempted to do something else at the same time, say read HN.

Your baby will be unhappy and you angry.

croo• 6 years ago

Why not let the child sleep in your bed?

jakamau• 6 years ago

As I understand it, there is an increased risk of death related to suffocation/co-sleeping.

tmaly2• 6 years ago

Once they check in, they will never leave. You want them to learn to be independent to sleep on their own in their own bed.

amerkhalid• 6 years ago

Here are a few books that I found useful:

* What to Expect the First Year - It was pretty logical and scientific but don't think everything in it has references.

* Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst - Not really a book about babies but I got interested in human behaviour and this book helped me understand a lot of things that babies and adults do.

* The Happiest Toddler on the Block - Again I thought it was very scientific, good ideas on discipline. I think it introduced idea of using emotions to communicate with toddlers instead of logic. I still find myself using logical arguments with my 2.5 years old, hard habit to break.

* Brain Rules for Baby - Really enjoyed it. All suggestions in it seems to be backed by research. The main idea in this book is that one should provide their kids a happy, relaxed home. Stress and anxiety at young age can stun kids' brain development.

mapster• 6 years ago

the best advice that will have the most effect, is not doing it alone.

snholli• 6 years ago

@martingoodson - Congratulations. Imagine receiving an Ikea book shelf with missing parts and an instruction manual in Swedish. That's basically what parenting is. A very much "well shit, what do I do know" experience. You can't truly be prepared for your baby until their arrival and trust me, you won't need a manual or want one. Here's the good news - there's no one else better fit in this world to know what to do for your baby than you - and your partner.

There is, however - a manual for building your baby registry. I just launched it. https://poppylist.com.

It's not what you're asking for, but I can at least help simplify one area for you.

I'd wish you luck, but you won't need it.

My daughter just turned one in May - welcome to the best club on earth.

spiderking• 6 years ago

I was impressed with the books given out by our government (Alberta, Canada) https://www.healthyparentshealthychildren.ca/resources/print... Some of it is region specific, but still lots of useful info.

sterlinm3• 6 years ago

Emily Oster's books and recently her newsletter. They're not for everyone but they are definitely for the type of person who asks for parenting advice on Hacker News :P

She's a professor of economics and her main shtick is that she evaluates the academic literature behind a lot of the big decisions facing new parents during pregnancy and early childhood. Personally the parts I found most useful are areas where people have extremely strong opinions about what parents should do while in reality the data is too weak to justify any strong views.

Her first book, Expecting Better, is mostly about pregnancy. Her second book, Cribsheet, is about early childhood (through pre-K).

She also started doing a newsletter recently that I've been enjoying. https://emilyoster.substack.com/

dragonwriter• 6 years ago

There is a lot of, mostly unreliable, third-party documentation, but Caring for Your Baby and Young Child, Birth to Age 5 for the American Academy of Pediatrics has seemed to be a pretty good value.

https://shop.aap.org/caring-for-your-baby-and-young-child-pa...

Beyond that:

You and your co-parent need to watch out for your own and each other’s physical and mental health. It’s easy to lose track of.

Talk to your baby, as much as possible.

Everything will change when you least expect it. Be flexible.

thorin• 6 years ago

Babies - owners manual

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Babies-Haynes-Explains-Owners-Works...

sunstone• 6 years ago

If it's crying it's not happy. Your job is to figure out what that is and fix it.

My four month old wanted me to hold her up at the door to the kitchen so she could watch mom cook dinner. She cried and cried and cried until I figured that out. Then she was silent. Good luck.

Ask HN: Is There a Manual for Babies?

Related Stories