Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2008/07/2008070201c.htm

by robg • 18 years ago

66 130 18 years ago

josefresco11• 18 years ago

Wow, an entire article about the benefits of pot and working and no mention from this "Ph.D" about the difference between Indica and Sativa marijuana.

For those too lazy to Google it, Sativa (usually grown outdoors) is great for working (think euphoria, and optimism), Indica (usually indoor) is for relaxing at the end of the day and "zoning out". Think 'body high'

Those FUD commercials you see with the kids deflated on the couch? Indica. The commercials you don't see? Well those would be showing motivated Ph.D students working their ass off after smoking a little Sativa (apparently unaware of the chemistry behind the scenes if this article is any judge).

Lesson for kids: Do your homework (this applies to your hobbies too) If you think just smoking weed will help your studies, at least make sure you're buying the right kind or a hybrid which will give you a little of both.

robg• 18 years ago

Every state doesn't have distribution "clubs" where all the varieties are laid out in front of you before purchase and with a sampler or two.

josefresco11• 18 years ago

Right, which means you need to be aware of what you're buying from your dealer and how it effects you. Buying a big ol bag of Indica, sitting down and taking a few bong rips will NOT help you finish the writing essay or give you the inspiration to code your next application masterpiece. Most likely you'll find yourself sitting on the couch watching some crappy MTV reality show too lazy to get up and fetch the remote.

My point: All weed is not created equal, ask your dealer for the kind you want (and if necessary educate him/her)

omouse2• 18 years ago

"Lesson for kids: Do your homework (this applies to your hobbies too)"

Isn't it amazing the kinds of things people will do without the slightest bit of research?

jey• 18 years ago

This seems to be accurate, but I've never been able to find any scientific explanation for the difference in effect. I've heard it attributed to the different ratios of THC to CBD, but I can't find any articles/papers to confirm this.

rms4• 18 years ago

There are also a number of analogs of THC present such as THC-V which is 500 times stronger than THC.

http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/t...

Andys• 18 years ago

I've been surfing the 'net and reading the occasional pot-related article for years and this is the first time I've heard of that.

Alex39175• 18 years ago

"For that matter, it ain't alcohol, which is far worse for one's body and mind."

Except for that not only is moderate consumption of alcohol good for you, but teetotalism is as bad for your health as being morbidly obese. How is it possible for someone to get a Ph.D. without picking up even a trace of scientific literacy?

ckuehne• 18 years ago

"How is it possible for someone to get a Ph.D. without picking up even a trace of scientific literacy?"

One word: humanities.

josefresco11• 18 years ago

What about for alcoholics? If refraining from something completely is bad, should we all experience LSD/Cocaine/Heroine infrequently?

I would think the real damage of teetotalism would be the stress involved in constantly thinking about and addressing it. Not so much the lack of the substance in the body.

Alex39175• 18 years ago

"I would think the real damage of teetotalism would be the stress involved in constantly thinking about and addressing it."

Then you would be wrong: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05EED9143FF...

silentbicycle• 18 years ago

If you define alcoholics as the set of people who, for whatever reason* , tend to drink to excess, that is, who as a rule do not drink moderately, then these health benefits are irrelevant to them. For example, if they try to drink moderately, but only succeed half the time and otherwise seriously overdo it, then the net effect on health is likely to be very negative.

* The debate whether alcoholism is a disease, a personality trait, or something else entirely is irrelevant here.

The health benefits of alcohol are an unusual case, also -- many of its benefits are related to other chemicals that frequently accompany it, such as polyphenols in red wine. This does not apply to "LSD/Cocaine/Heroine" (sic), though there are comparable benefits for coffee and tea (particularly green tea), mostly antioxidants.

Many doctors are reluctant to recommend moderate drinking for its health benefits because it is also addictive and impairs judgment, and in cases where people drink excessively, the health costs are severe. This doesn't apply to most things recommended for health (exercise, eating fruits and vegetables, getting enough sleep, nethack, green tea, pomegranate juice (or whatever the health craze of the moment is, ac,ai berries? peach fuzz?)), because most of those are less likely to be taken to excess, and would probably be several orders of magnitude less harmful even if they were.

hugh2• 18 years ago

teetotalism is as bad for your health as being morbidly obese

That just sounds really unlikely. Got anything to back that up?

Alex39175• 18 years ago

"In a study of more than 80,000 American women, those who drank moderately had only half the heart attack risk of those who did not drink at all, even if they were slim, did not smoke and exercised daily. Moderate drinking was about as good for the heart as an hour of exercise a day. Not drinking at all was as bad for the heart as morbid obesity."

The overall risk curve for alcohol is J shaped. In other words, your total morbidity risk decreases sharply with moderate consumption but then increases after about two drinks a day. Interestingly, risk of heart disease is lower even among the heaviest drinkers. However, total morbidity rates are higher because of other risks.

petercooper2• 18 years ago

Before anyone starts taking this guy seriously, consider the impact that drug use could have on your life in terms of the social effects rather than the drug itself.

Being arrested for possession (or, worse, dealing) could invalidate you from easy worldwide travel (merely having been arrested - let alone charged - invalidates you from many visa waiver programs), numerous professions, and delay certain opportunities. You have to seriously consider whether you can get away with it, and, if you don't, whether you can handle the consequences.

I'm not pro or anti drugs, but I'm very much anti people ruining their future for the sake of some temporary fun. But if you know you can deal with it, enjoy it!

yummyfajitas• 18 years ago

It's not particularly difficult for a white/asian middle class person (most people here, I'm guessing) to avoid getting busted. It's not like the cops are out to get you.

Just don't take pot onto the subway or speed while it's in your car, and you should be fine.

cmos• 18 years ago

In the US the consequences will vary depending on what state you live in. In upstate NY, sitting in traffic court for an evening I learned that every single case for 'possession' (all small amounts - not 'intent to distribute') was given a $50 fine and nothing on their record.

What would the 20's have been if everyone was too scared to go to a speakeasy?

Alex39175• 18 years ago

The actual NY state law as explained by NORML: "Possession of 25 grams or less of marijuana is punishable by a fine of $100 for the first offense." 25g is .88 ounces, which is what a recreational smoker might consume in an entire year. It's worth noting though that the punishments are much harsher if you get caught smoking or displaying weed in public.

mattmaroon• 18 years ago

In many states, possession of small amounts (more than a smoker would need at one time) isn't even a misdemeanor.

mrtron3• 18 years ago

And with respect to the international community - many countries.

Canada's police turn a blind eye to it mostly, since the courts usually throw out the cases. But it creates a ridiculous situation where it is accepted and considered legal, but occasionally people trafficking large amounts are still prosecuted and face serious jail time. I really would prefer if it was legalized. This would reduce funds going to organized crime.

neilk• 18 years ago

Let's see what the risks are. I'm going to guess most readers here are from the USA, and besides, it has some of the harshest laws in the developed world about marijuana.

According to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cannabis_use_by_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7370

12.6% of the US population annually uses marijuana. Out of a population of 304 million, that makes 38,304,000 users per year. There were 829,625 marijuana-related arrests in 2006 (no idea how many led to actual charges or convictions). That means the chances of being arrested are about 2.2% per year, assuming uniform enforcement across all users.

For most people, this overstates the actual chances of being caught since, sadly, the hammer comes down hardest against poor people and ethnic minorities. I don't have a citation for this, but I think this is the case. Can anyone improve on my stats here?

So, while I originally hoped to show you were wrong, I have to conclude it is a significant risk and getting riskier. According to the NORML article, marijuana arrests for simple possession are skyrocketing. In most cases the penalty amounts to a wrist slap, but still there's a risk of more severe prosecution.

Where I come from (Canada, and my last place of residence, BC) people are barely afraid of toking up right in front of a police officer. It's probably bad to disrespect the officer, but I've seen them turn a blind eye to such violations many times. Especially in BC, there's a broad consensus that the plant does very little harm.

petercooper2• 18 years ago

My point is not necessarily the risk of incarceration or the inconvenience of being arrested, but in being able to accept any risk (and clearly there is one, even if it's small) of what problems it might cause in your life if you were to be arrested or have even a minor offense on your file (and considering how deep those files go and how easily they are shared nowadays, that could be a big issue).

For example, the United States consulate suggests to UK travellers that anyone who has ever been arrested, even if no charges were brought, should not travel to the US under visa waiver, and must attend an interview to get a visa. That's a pretty big deal if you didn't know about it (as one person who /was/ on my wedding vacation - and now must stay at home - found out to their dismay).

It's unlikely anything relating to some marijuana use will destroy your life or impede you significantly, but even not being able to travel freely between countries /could/ be an impediment, especially if such travel is necessary for your job, etc.

This is the least of it, of course. If you want to work with children, particularly in the UK, you also have to declare all of these things. If you want to work in certain industries, you have to declare these things. Things will come out if you go on to become a celebrity or a public figure of some sort. The risks are small, the outcomes not fatal, but still worth considering if you want to maintain a clean record.

steveplace• 18 years ago

>the hammer comes down hardest against poor people and ethnic minorities. I don't have a citation for this, but I think this is the case. Can anyone improve on my stats here?<

Compare average prison sentence for possession of cocaine (rich white) versus crack-cocaine (poor black).

The discrepancy is unnerving.

utefan001• 18 years ago

During high school, I worked with a guy who loved weed. Today, he has a type of skin cancer that has been traced to pot use. He is currently losing his fight with cancer.

IsaacSchlueter• 18 years ago

Sorry, anecdotes ≠ statistics.

dgabriel3• 18 years ago

Was he a transplant recipient or did he have AIDS? That seems to be the underlying issue (see http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291735,00.html). In either case, I suppose I would strongly recommend avoiding marijuana.

LPTS9• 18 years ago

BTW, most use of marijuana is not for fun, but for intellectual or sensual stimulation, or religious/spiritual reasons, or for medical reasons. You are unfairly marginalizing and minimizing an experience you don't understand if you write all pot use off as fun. Also, consider the positive effects drugs have had in the lives of people like Carl Sagan, Steve Jobs, and Paul Erdos. If you are weighing the future, you should consider the opportunity costs of denying yourself access to the states of consciousness many visionaries bring their insights back from, as well as the negative.

I'm against letting the blind fear of irrational authorities stop people from meeting their human needs. Getting high is a human drive like sleep or sex. Do you think gay people should not have sex in places where it's illegal?

Would you say Turing shouldn't have had sex? Because he was ruining his future for the sake of some temporary fun that actually represented getting a psychological need met?

ken• 18 years ago

I see many of the most famous, successful people in business, politics, law, entertainment, education, and other fields have been arrested, done drugs, or both. In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of highly successful people who have never been in either category.

How are you going to take the necessary business risks to be the next Bill Gates or Richard Branson or Steve Jobs (or U.S. President or genre-creating musician or ...), if you can't take a small personal risk? There may be a benefit to "staying clean", but it appears to be dwarfed by the ability to take calculated risks.

If you want to abstain for the sake of abstention and staying out of jail, then by all means do so. But if you think smoking cannabis is going to sink your career when you start becoming successful, I see no indication of that.

edw51912• 18 years ago

Oh you poor baby!

You have trouble reading and writing and 'rithmetic, so you need a little chemical help. You pussy.

Get out of cocoon, er I mean school, get a real job, get married. have a couple of kids, get a mortgage and a couple of car payments, raise those kids without worrying too much about the evils around them, visit Mom in her nursing home, do things for others in need, and, if you have time, have a nice life too. But don't drop a single egg while you're juggling. And don't you dare miss a day of work, no matter how mind numbingly boring or lame it is, or how sleepy or depressed you feel.

The only thing worse than the whining of a student is the whining of a pothead student. Grow up.

jraines• 18 years ago

Get off my lawn!

josefresco11• 18 years ago

I'm grown up, have kids, mortgages (3 in fact!) and car payments and this weed ignorant college kid didn't strike me as whiny. Just slightly ignorant as I pointed out above.

Let me guess edw519, you probably drink, both coffee and alcohol, you probably also consume your fair amount of sugar and possibly (although unlikely) smoke cigarettes. Why is it that smoking weed (to help you work/play) makes you winy and a pothead but it's ok to be a raging asshole if you miss your morning coffee/cig?

edw51912• 18 years ago

"Let me guess edw519, you probably...*

You guess wrong, josefresco. But it doesn't really matter anyway because I never "advertised" my habits to the world. This guy did.

Just slightly ignorant as I pointed out above.

Ignorant I can live with. But this was also irresponsible.

This is hacker news, where people post and learn and share together about doing difficult and exciting work. I realize that OP had no idea where his essay would end up, but it ended up here (at #1 no less) so that's where it warranted a response.

I really don't care what anyone's personal habits are, but as soon as you write about how you use drugs to take the easy way out, and that post ends up on a site where people bust their butts to do good work and add value to other people's lives, you're fair game.

neilc3• 18 years ago

I don't see why the vehemence is warranted; I also don't think the author of the article is "whining". He's just talking about how and why he smokes pot, and how that connects with graduate school in the humanities. It is refreshing to hear something in the mainstream media about someone who smokes pot and isn't an intellectual vacuum. Which part of the article did you think was "whining"?

Your rant about graduate school versus a "real job" also seems like mostly a non sequitur.

edw51912• 18 years ago

I don't see why the vehemence is warranted

You're probably right. If this hadn't made it to #1 so quickly (no fault of OP of course), I may not have even responded at all. But it did, so I did, and I didn't hold any punches.

I just found it ironic that many of us who do good work 80 to 100 hours per week and come here for a break among our peers find a student who needs to resort to drugs to cope (or whatever) with his difficulties at #1.

Without even entering a debate about the pros and cons of drugs in general, I found the essay wimpy and irresponsible. Since I can't vote it down, I shouted it down. No apologies.

mrtron3• 18 years ago

I am not a student (so, also not a pothead student). I do not agree that you need to have a real job+marriage+kids+mortgage+car payments+etc in order to have a 'real life'. Because if I did have all of those - I would be forced to do whatever bullshit job I had instead of trying my own path.

I do agree this article was a poorly conceived article though.

jrockway4• 18 years ago

I would be forced to do whatever bullshit job I had instead of trying my own path.

And, you'd have to post whiny comments here trying to get people to Follow Your Path to make yourself feel like you made the right choice.

Instead, most of the site already agrees with your choices ;)

kaos3• 18 years ago

"warning: personal frustration inspired comment"

ibsulon• 18 years ago

That absolutely sounds like hell. Maybe you should smoke some pot.

(Except the doing things for others in need.)

jrockway4• 18 years ago

You have trouble reading and writing and 'rithmetic, so you need a little chemical help. You pussy.

You still get your name published, regardless of "chemical help" or not. Who are you again?

Why should he make the choices you did? From the tone of your comment, it looks like these choices are making your life miserable. Why should he do what you say?

And don't you dare miss a day of work, no matter how mind numbingly boring or lame it is, or how sleepy or depressed you feel.

Why not? Why is going to work every day so important?

The only thing worse than the whining of a student is the whining of a pothead student. Grow up.

Actually, what's worse is a whining adult. Nobody actually cares about your car payments or kids.

edw51912• 18 years ago

You still get your name published

So what?

Why should he make the choices you did?

I never claimed that I made those choices. But lots of people have. And they're not blogging about how they need drugs to get through their day.

Why is going to work every day so important?

Never started a business before, huh?

what's worse is a whining adult. Nobody actually cares about your car payments or kids.

OP isn't an adult? I don't have a car payment or kids. And if I did, I certainly wouldn't blog about how I used drugs to deal with them.

allenbrunson• 18 years ago

You've established yourself here as valuable community member. But this sounds to me like the textbook definition of "kneejerk reaction."

You could make a (calm!) argument that the author has chosen a poor coping method, but this? No, this comment of yours says a lot more about you than it does about the article.

edw51912• 18 years ago

You've established yourself here as valuable community member.

Thank you

But this sounds to me like the textbook definition of "kneejerk reaction."

Actually, it was anything but. I thought long and hard about my post and was curious what kind of reaction it would elicit. I guess I found out.

You could make a (calm!) argument that the author has chosen a poor coping method, but this?

I considered that, but obviously didn't. Let me explain...

I love this community. It's my virtual home. That's why I responded like I did.

In order to glean the signal from the noise, we put up with a lot here. Posts like "not hacker news", posts giving advice learned from a book somewhere, submissions about politics and religion, and unnecessary profanity. I have read most of them and usually chuckled and moved on. Not this time.

Lots of people come here, many young and impressionable, looking for all kinds of things. So what is the first thing they saw today? A post from someone who hasn't really accomplished anything important to hackers (as far as I could tell) and who chooses to resort to drugs to get through his day. And then brags about it.

I wanted to make it clear in no uncertain terms that there are people who disagree with him and this post has no business here at hn. I could have said the lame "not hacker news", but that hardly would have gotten my point across.

We are achievers. We work hard and find a way to produce value for other people, often taking the difficult road instead of the easy way out. This guy's post was IMHO the precise opposite of what I believe and what I hope others believe too. Making it through school using drugs is a smack in the face of those of us who work hard in the real world and assemble here to share it.

I simply don't care how anyone wants to live their life. If you want to get high, get drunk, jump out of airplanes, or just sit in front of the TV, go to it.

But if you come into my virtual home, I will respond just like I would in my physical home and say, "Take your drugs and get out."

I wanted to get people's attention. Do you think it worked?

No, this comment of yours says a lot more about you than it does about the article.

What does it say about me that my other 2,873 comments don't?

LPTS9• 18 years ago

Your life sounds like it sucks because you did not use the consciousness altering properties of drugs to decide how to meet life on it's own terms and do your work here on earth. Doing drugs while you are young is a great way to avoid becoming this bitter later in life.

You remind me of a slightly more evolved version of those 90 year olds who hate anyone who isn't as repressed and miserable then they are. So you made choices according to the conventional wisdom of your time, your life sucks as a result, and you're getting more and more trapped in your shitty, repeating cycle as the time to get out gets smaller and smaller. You're going to die (tick tock, tick tock), and instead of doing all the unimagined cool stuff you would of dreamed up while using drugs responsibly, you're going to waste all of this beautiful gift that is our fleeting life doing stuff you hate. Each day, you feel it coming, and go through it anyway.

And, to top it off, when you die, you'll think your ascending into heaven, and God, a black woman, will meet you at the gate with dreads and a gold and green cap, and a blunt with 4 grams of hydro in a swisher sweet wrapper, and say "I put all those drugs all over the planet so you could use them to help you be creative enough to invent the future, and you failed to do your part because you were too distracted from the perpetual cycle of maintaining illusions. Fuck you, mon, I'm sending you back as a cockroach. You don't need more then a brainstem, because you never use it anyway. If living as a thoughtless drone in a hivemind was good enough for you this time, that's all you get the next time around." Then, the gates will slam shut, and you'll see God and Sagan and Erdos and Steve Jobs, all taking hits of that blunt, planning the evolution of humanity, and bumping some new Radiohead, while your consciousness gets shunted into the body of a cockroach so you can relive life in a more metaphoric expression of the way you chose to live in your human form.

Sounds less like a problem with people who use drugs and more like a problem with how your choices have sucked, and continue to suck at very deep levels of reality.

edw51912• 18 years ago

You figured all that out about me from a single post? Amazing.

Your massive inellect and talent is wasted here at hn. Looking forward to seeing you on Dr. Phil.

hollerith• 18 years ago

edw hit a nerve, didn't he?

DanielBMarkham3• 18 years ago

Let's stop the piling on of edw, okay? Gee -- he just questioned the morality of pot as an aide in student studies.

I thought it was funny -- reminded me of a cranky old guy saying "Dang kids today! Toking up and killing brain cells"

Note I'm a libertarian and don't think that government has any business with what I choose to ingest. But heck, if you want to post an article on how good it is to toke up for your schoolwork, you gotta expect to hear some people who disagree for various reasons, right? What do you guys want, to be able to smoke it up and not have anybody say "what a waste -- can't you succeed without all the partying?" The reaction seems very mob-like.

There's all kinds of cool subtopics to this - the role of self-medication, the differences between pot and alcohol cutlures, the various moral implications of ingesting various substances, the stereotypical toked-up college liberal going to school for life, etc. Fun stuff to kick around, in my opinion.

edw51912• 18 years ago

Thanks Daniel (I think).

he just questioned the morality of pot as an aide in student studies

No I didn't.

I challenged the appropriateness of a #1 hn post from a student who uses drugs to get by and then brags about it.

The reaction seems very mob-like.

I didn't know what to expect, but this was no surprise. Since "net" scores are the only thing that show, I'm curious how many up votes and down votes there were. Even though the net is negative, I wonder how many people agreed.

tptacek2• 18 years ago

I usually love your comments. It's hard to get through changing diapers and managing toddlerhood and stay sane and sharp, and you have, and, you know, respect, yo.

But this right here? Sounds like you just snapped. What do you care if people smoke up in their spare time? Why is it bad if it helps them cope with stress? I'm sure exercise would be better, but doing nothing about stress is probably worse.

Agree: whining about how hard being a student is does make you a pussy. Adding pot doesn't change the equation. =)

edw51912• 18 years ago

Thank you, tptacek.

Sounds like you just snapped.

Not at all. This was planned. I won't beat it up, but like I've responded already, I just don't want to see any more about drugs, sex, religion, politics, profanity, and certainly not the stream of conciousness bloggings of liberal arts students. I can get all that at a thousand other places (but I don't). I just didn't think that the usual "not hacker news" would have much impact here.

I pushed the envelope and learned a little more about our community. Lots of people disagree with me on more than just a few issues. No surprise.

Sorry if I disappointed you. Hopefully I'll be able to earn respect in future discussions.

Now let's get back to hacker news.

makeiteasier• 18 years ago

I'm not sure why making things easier on one's self should be seen as a bad thing. I mean, I like using high level languages to write software rather than using assmebly for everything. Why wouldn't I use something similar for my mind?

I think this is an intersting prologue to how debates regarding mind-enhancing drugs will take place.

I also note that your reaction was highly...emotional? Your reasoning seems specious. Using marijuana doesn't mean that this person lives in a cocoon or is incapible of hard work or creating value somewhere.

ph0rque• 18 years ago

Wow, this is the first arguably "mean" thing I've seen you post, edw519... it seems to have really struck a nerve with you.

edw51912• 18 years ago

Not really. But it obviously came across that way. I'm still working on making my prose as readable as my code :-)

Looking back, I can't imagine I would ever talk like that to anyone here, and certainly anyone in person. But since I was responding to a pseudonym from a passing blog, I took a few liberties.

Everyone should be allowed one pass. I guess this one was mine.

st3fan• 18 years ago

Personally I think smoking is disgusting and smoking pot is dumb. Thinking that smoking pot is good for you is even dumber.

Health Issues of Marijuana - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana#Health_issues

palish3• 18 years ago

Chewing tobacco is also disgusting and possibly dumb (because it causes mouth cancer), but it is not illegal. Pot is though. That's my problem with the anti-drug tirade: Nicotine is a drug and is not illegal, but THC is also a drug and is illegal.

(I should probably note that I've never smoked pot.)

astine7• 18 years ago

Tobacco is a local industry. Marijuana is not.

The US was built with the money from Tobacco, not Marijuana.

So we can't criminalize Tobacco any more than Columbia can do away with cocaine or Afghanistan can out opium. Personally, I think that marijuana use is probably harmful, as is most drug use, but isn't worth the cost in criminalizing it.

DanielBMarkham3• 18 years ago

This was really funny.

Dude. I used to take this college stuff so seriously, but really, after a couple of tokes, erm, it all.

What were we talking about again?

tyn4• 18 years ago

Marijuana actually impairs memory and learning http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn10607

josefresco11• 18 years ago

All Marijuana studies actually funded in the US (they are rare and typically have 1 result) should be cautiously taken into account with the knowledge that our administration does whatever it can to spread FUD to the public about the drug. Follow the money trail ...

astine7• 18 years ago

That's an ad hominem argument write large. You can't dismiss a study just because it was funded by someone you disagree with. You have to take it on its own terms. If the study is flawed, show the flaws, if not, it shouldn't matter who funded it.

tyn4• 18 years ago

I wonder which of the following describes best the downvoter's reasoning:

a) The study is flawed, thus it shouldn't be cited b) You misinterpreted the study c) The study is valid but it's bad news for me, so I decided to shoot the messenger.

josefresco11• 18 years ago

or d) the messenger was paid to deliver only certain messages, whilst the other messengers were fired/never hired in the first place.

LPTS9• 18 years ago

Right. We all know that Carl Sagan, as well as most musicians, have horrible memories and suck at learning because drug use fried their brain. Marijuana doesn't impair learning. Stupidity (like this study) impairs learning.

Marijuana modulates the way your short term memory works. It does not impair long term memory or recall. The effects of marijuana on short term memory may contribute to creativity by breaking down cognitive structures and creating a space for new concepts to plug into parts of the dissolving short term memories.

If drugs are so harmful, why are they winning the drug war?

tyn4• 18 years ago

As an occasional user who lives in just 2 hours driving distance from Amsterdam I will be happy to be convinced by what you say (I mean it). Any references?

ajkirwin2• 18 years ago

In rats. And nerve cells in a dish. And that's only the neural firing patterns.

There isn't any actual proof that this HAS a detrimental effect. Did they give THC to the rats and then ask them to memorize some information, then quiz them later?

Hell, do that to a few users of cannabis. Then, perhaps, real results will be forthcoming.

Neuroscience is still very new, and a lot of things are ascribed without true understanding, to various actions within the brain. Just take a look at the farce of fMRIs, for instance.

a-priori5• 18 years ago

You clearly know little about psychological research techniques if you don't know how they test rats for memory. Ever heard of the term "rat in a maze"?

And, what do you mean by "farce of fMRIs"?

a-priori5• 18 years ago

Since we're referencing science articles, I have two:

"... researchers have concluded that neurocognitive changes that can be reasonably attributed to chronic cannabis use are subtle compared, for example, with those seen in neurological illness, and depend on prolonged and quite heavy levels of consumption." (Rogers and Robbins, 2001)

"Some cognitive deficits appear detectable at least 7 days after heavy cannabis use but appear reversible and related to recent cannabis exposure rather than irreversible and related to cumulative lifetime use." (Pope, et al., 2001)

Sources: http://research.lycaeum.org/researchpdfs/2001_rogers_1.pdf http://www.cannatrade.com/pdfdocuments/new/Neuropsychologica...

youngnh• 18 years ago

before clicking through, I thought this was a joke judging from the url.

patrickg-zill• 18 years ago

If the roughest thing in life you ever encounter are the "rigors" of a PHD program in a non-scientific field like whatever CritLit field this guy is in, then you are truly living a blessed life.

jrockway4• 18 years ago

The comments here are interesting. I think some people get upset as soon as they hear the name of an illegal drug, and instantly get ultra-defensive. You'd think people that claim to be among the most intelligent wouldn't immediately make such an emotional judgment. After all, when is the government ever right about anything? What they consider legal or illegal should not affect your judgment; 50 years ago it was essentially illegal to be black.

Anyway, if you read the article and substitute "coffee" for "marijuanna", I don't think anyone would be upset. If you are against "chemical help", why would you care about the current US legal status of the drug?

FWIW, I don't smoke pot, but I do drink a lot of caffeine. You could say that I'm a drug addict, and that's fine with me.

josefresco11• 18 years ago

Thank you for this comment BTW, refreshing to see someone with such an open mind.

dgabriel3• 18 years ago

For me, it just makes me paranoid, sleepy, or sick, which are three good reasons to avoid it. I pass no judgment on others, though. It's clearly a substance that should be legal, whereas tobacco should be banned.

dejb2• 18 years ago

I was just about to vote you up then I saw the tobacco should be banned. As an ex-smoker (tobacco) I am against any smoking happening near me but banning it is not the answer.

dgabriel3• 18 years ago

The funny thing is that I'm a smoker on my third attempt to quit. Tobacco is insidious and deadly, and if it were impossible to buy, many thousands of lives would be extended, and health care costs would be significantly reduced. I don't necessarily believe any substance should be banned by the government, but comparatively, weed does far less damage.

dejb2• 18 years ago

OK if we are talking about anecdotal evidence then how about a colleague of mine who smoked pot every day while doing his PHD. He spent several years doing very little work and then ended up having a major psychotic episode. Without people to support you this sort of thing could entirely derail your life. Fortunately he managed to complete the PHD only after getting off the pot.

Having known a number of people who have smoked daily for periods in their lives and suffered from mental health issues, I have no doubts that heavy pot use contributes to mental health problems.

0x44• 18 years ago

I've never used an illegal drug, but the plural of anecdote is not data.

aswanson2• 18 years ago

It may not be information, but it is most certainly data.

eznet• 18 years ago

I too have known people like you describe here and can say that it is more likely that they began habitually smoking marijuana because of some latent psychological conditions - and not that they formed these conditions as a result.

Sure, marijuana may exaggerate seemingly innate personality characteristics, but create them? Highly unlikely. Its all about the individual's personality and mindset - same reason some individuals develop PTSD, while others walk away from the exact same traumatic experience with no lasting psychological scars.

I feel confidant in saying that there are far more chronic users of marijuana who are otherwise mentally healthy than there are users who are teetering on a "major psychotic episode" - a sign that people such as your colleague are the minority, unstable demographic of the population. Also, it is far easier for individuals who 'freak out' and have embarrassing 'psychotic snaps' to point to an inanimate, socially demonized substance to blame rather than to find and accept blame with 'self'.

a-priori5• 18 years ago

From Biopsychology by Pinel, J:

"... many people believe that marijuana causes mental illness, in particular, schizophrenia. Several correlational studies have shown that heavy marijuana users are more likely to be subsequently be [sic] diagnosed with schizophrenia... However, there is no way for correlational studies to rule out the possibility that the correlation between heavy marijuana use and schizophrenia occurs because people who are predisposed to develop schizophrenia also tend to use marijuana."

pavelludiq• 18 years ago

when i was 15 or 16 i used to smoke a lot of pot. I got bored and started some more interesting hobbies, like parkour and football(real football, not that American parody of a sport). Anyway, if you are realy bored, go ahead and smoke, but if you are still bored, thats because you are a boring person, i realised im boring and started to unbore myself. Now im satisfied with my self and i don't realy need weed. If somebody offers me to go smoke i might agree, if i have nothing better to do at the moment, but for me it is esentialy the teenage anti=boredom drug. Because most teenagers are really bored a lot of them smoke.

edu• 18 years ago

   But now it seemed like a privilege to consider
   economic globalization and its relation to 
   British poetry

No comment.

Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

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