Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487535-chinese-billionaire-to-send-us-500000-coronavirus-test-kits-1-million-face

by yadongwen • 6 years ago

263 191 6 years ago

thehill.com

wollstonecraft2• 6 years ago

"Test kits" are just for sample collection. You still need throughput on a qPCR machine to get results.

DarthGhandi• 6 years ago

Shouldn't there be hundreds of labs with these machines though?

The United States government spends far more on healthcare than any other nation on Earth. That's not including private health costs.

South Korea has the capacity to test 20,000 per day and has 1/6th the population.

wollstonecraft2• 6 years ago

Every PI at a major research university who does something related to genetics should have one. There are probably some logistics challenges in getting them all into facilities with the right biosafety level and competent technicians to run them.

inferiorhuman2• 6 years ago

Shouldn't there be hundreds of labs with these machines though?

Yes. Roche just got FDA approval on a SARS-COV-2 test that will take four (4) hours that works with two of their (whatever you call the machine) models. Per Roche there are around 110 of those machines in the United States. Bloomberg had estimated throughput numbers and also indicated that Roche has tests that work with some of their other, slower equipment (that I assume is in the US as well).

Mayo Clinic recently developed a 2 hour test.

The limits on testing are, from my POV, entirely political at this point.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/13/815522836/u-s-coronavirus-tes...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-13/roche-get...

8note3• 6 years ago

does money the US spends on healthcare do things other than line pockets?

robomartin• 6 years ago

The most important factor isn't how quickly one can process the test (so long as it doesn't take an excessive amount of time) or how many, but rather how many false positives you get.

The CDC, in a press conference, explained that tests in places like South Korea are producing 3% to 4% false positives. Our tests are in the 1% to 2% range.

This difference in false positives can have massive consequences as infection spreads. Doubling your false positives could easily overwhelm the medical system. Which in turn, could increase fatality.

And then there's the secondary effects, which Italy is sadly experiencing, as the medical system overloads doctors are having to choose who they simply let die. There are reports of stroke patients going without much attention in Italy because of precisely this issue.

If hospitals can't take care of people because they are overloaded due to administering large numbers of tests with double the false positive outcomes, more people die.

When things truly matter there is no substitute for quality and performance. Quantity and speed are not always the most important factors.

James_Henry• 6 years ago

This isn't correct. You also need the right primers/probes for the specific virus and controls to ensure accuracy of the test.

alephnan• 6 years ago

The limiting factor right now is the availability of approved labs to perform the test

jerkstate• 6 years ago

A big point of the Presidents address today was around relaxing regulations to help the response. So hopefully this will get sorted out.

meritt2• 6 years ago

Let's not forget that retailers are making their parking lots available, Google has deployed 1,700 engineers to build a flowchart website, and the US is buying up oil reserves.

I think this epidemic is pretty much solved, don't you?

jacobwilliamroy2• 6 years ago

Wow. Chinese citizen sends humanitarian aid to the U.S. What a queer situation.

fairenough42• 6 years ago

Or a new normal? We'll see in the coming days and weeks how functional the US is.

jacobwilliamroy2• 6 years ago

As a U.S. citizen, I hope someone throws a benefit concert for us. That would be delicious.

incompatible• 6 years ago

Seems strange that anybody would feel the need, given how the US is one of the richest countries, trumpets it's own abilities endlessly, and has an official policy of "America first".

I.e., it's surely capable of making its own virus test kits and face masks, if it could be bothered.

ardy42• 6 years ago

Seems strange that anybody would feel the need, given how the US is one of the richest countries, trumpets it's own abilities endlessly

Unfortunately, it's also a country where the rich like to keep their riches to themselves, and are averse to government action in general.

I.e., it's surely capable of making its own virus test kits and face masks, if it could be bothered.

They're just outsourcing, like they do for everything.

nojvek• 6 years ago

it's surely capable of making its own virus test kits and face masks, if it could be bothered.

American manufacturing industries are dying. We know how to make software but making hardware is slowly fading out. Most of our stuff comes from China. China knows how to make the world.

olliej• 6 years ago

What will be more interesting is if they allow it in.

The US historically rejected aid from many other countries

hkai2• 6 years ago

Uganda sent aid to China as well. So what.

Literally anyone can send aid to anyone, often for political gains.

_bxg15• 6 years ago

Seems like a power move to me. Painting a picture for the world of struggling U.S. institutions needing a Chinese billionaire's help to weather a crisis.

I'm not even sure it's incorrect.

remarkEon3• 6 years ago

Yeah, it's a reminder of where we shipped our industrial capacity (both real and human).

spectramax6• 6 years ago

Jack Ma cannot be trusted. He swings high and low, doesn't know where the ball is. He once hit a Alibaba home run and thinks he is a hotshot. It's hard to trust Jack Ma with undertones of the CCP propaganda in this humanitarian aid.

Elon and Jack Ma debates in Shanghai, just listen this guy talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3lUEnMaiAU

Edit: I am not defending the United States. Just look at what our president said this afternoon. Couldn't even string a cohesive sentence together. If Jack Ma is genuine and wants to help - who knows? To me it feels like a huge power move as the OP said - it feels "correct" to me. This news is trending big time on Twitter.

_bxg15• 6 years ago

That hardly seems like the point, does it?

8note3• 6 years ago

isn't that the same for all billionaires? got a big hit and think a bit too highly of themselves now, and given far more power than they deserve?

737min• 6 years ago

Jack Ma is close to Chinese PLA. It’s a national security threat.

tomohawk3• 6 years ago

If the government in China had handled the problem, it sure would have saved the whole world a lot of trouble.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/wuhan-doctors-sa...

ISL• 6 years ago

With great power comes great responsibility.

This is a global adversary, and a global response is required.

Perhaps when we dance this dance again, global health expertise and transparency will be the default from the beginning.

tmotwu• 6 years ago

Because thats what matters to you? Were europeans sending aid to China a power move? It’s acceptable to send aid to each other, no matter who you appear to represent.

_bxg15• 6 years ago

There is no "appear". China's capitalist leaders are in the pocket of the CCP, whether they want to be or not.

I'm not saying it's unacceptable, I'm saying that China and the U.S. are direct rivals in a way that China and Europe are not, and that it will appear a certain way to the world, and that the way it appears will be advantageous to the CCP.

zrobotics• 6 years ago

The EU sending aid is definitely a political flex. It is still a good gesture, but sending aid is a sign that a country is in a 'superior' position.

Jack Ma doing this is also a political move. I'm sure that part of the motivation is just to help, but it seems clear to me that this is also intended to show that China is in a position to help the US, and the optics of that are that the countries are on equal footing. Remember, China as a country does have a bit of a complex about their status, which is completely understandable considering the rapid changes they have been through. This aid shows that, rather than being a 2nd-class citizen, the country is in a position to help America with something.

That being said, this is a great thing, these are much needed supplies for which there isn't a large domestic manufacturing capacity (as it was offshore). However charitable acts can also have additional political motivations, and that does seem to be a factor here.

wolco• 6 years ago

I agree, allow people to show there kindness. Things aren't always so black and white.

refurb3• 6 years ago

It absolutely is a power move.

That's why when Cuba is struck with a hurricane, they reject American aid [1], despite being a relatively poor country who could obviously benefit from it.

[1]https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=943791...

hawk_• 6 years ago

It's concerted effort by Chinese establishment to whitewash their handling of the whole thing. They even want to pretend that the virus didn't even originate in China!

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/13/asia/china-coronavirus-us...

guardiangod2• 6 years ago

You should see what some of my Chinese relatives/friends are forwarding in WeChat-

1. CIA created the virus and released the virus in China as a test.

2. (In Chinese there's no word for 'flu', only 'cold', or 'transmissible cold'.) The 'cold' virus originated in US last year and killed more than 10k Americans before US sent special force to Wuhan to infect us Chinese! Even the head of CDC admitted it (see article).

3. A 5 member US special force went to Wuhan in November. They returned to US and all died in suspicious circumstances.

4. Now all the western countries are sending infected agents into China to blow the epidemic again.

You might notice a common theme that US is the enemy, and they are the originator of all bad things that happened to China. This is not a coincidence.

spectramax6• 6 years ago

Why is this downvoted? There is a source and the point is valid. This is a fact of what's going on in China.

To the downvoters - explain.

dirtyid2• 6 years ago

For context, there's a growing number of Chinese diplomats from younger generation who want China to reciprocate the rhetoric of the current US administration. Expect a lot more ridiculous clap backs like this, especially on Twitter where Chinese diplomats have been cultivating a following since HK. This is probably a direct response to folks in US administration using Wuhan/Chinese Virus. Chinese international messaging has been predicable and fairly mellow, western MSM likes to blow it out of proportion, but looks like they're about to fully embrace post-truth twitter drama.

knzhou8• 6 years ago

You can't just declare everything that any low-ranking Chinese bureaucrat does to be an "effort by Chinese establishment". This is nationalistic flame-bait.

soneil2• 6 years ago

He also sent similar to Iran, Italy, Japan, South Korea, and Spain - which makes it look a little less so, at least to my eye.

maest• 6 years ago

It's amazing how much impact leaving this information out has.

_bxg15• 6 years ago

It definitely shifts the message somewhat from "look, the Americans need our help" to "we're prosperous enough to be a world leader", which depending on your perspective may be preferable

TheTylerRose• 6 years ago

It can be a political move and be sent to many other countries as well. That makes it more subtle. Jack Ma is really just a CCP puppet, this is a blatant political move. The US doesn’t even need test kits right now!

01100011• 6 years ago

I've noticed China is promoting the medical response teams they've sent to those countries on WeChat. I don't want to be so cynical that I reduce Chinese goodwill to a propaganda move, but it definitely is good PR.

remarkEon3• 6 years ago

Iran

Potential Chinese client state

Italy

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47679760

Italy joins China's New Silk Road project

Japan

Par East Asia competition and nose thumbing

SK

Ibid.

Spain

"Does the EU really mean anything to you in times of crisis?"

It's the usual astute PRC maneuvering.

celticninja2• 6 years ago

The Chinese are people like you and me. Yes their government needs a lot of work, but people are people and we need to remember that more.

grecy3• 6 years ago

I'm not American or Chinese, so I read your statement as:

The American are people like you and me. Yes their government needs a lot of work, but people are people and we need to remember that more

_bxg15• 6 years ago

Sure, but there's no way one of their billionaires would be allowed to take an action like this without discussing it with the CCP first. For all we know it was their idea.

I'm not saying it's evil or that we shouldn't accept it, I'm just observing the optics and the fact that there's no way the CCP didn't consider it from this perspective beforehand, regardless of any other motives.

dexterdog• 6 years ago

Show me a national government that doesn't need a lot of work.

FpUser8• 6 years ago

Very nicely put. Kudos.

taiwanboy3• 6 years ago

US ability to make and distribute medicine and medical supplies is falling apart and it’s a direct result of consolidation of supply chain and factories that make it. 4 power buyers buys control over 90% of generic drug for US. And probably similar percent for medical equipments.

Good news is that now all eyes are on the medical supply chains, and introduction of the medical supply drug act bill, we should see some supply chain move back to US.

Especially since Chinese government has threatened to withhold drug supplies to US https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... and has started a disinformation campaign suggesting US inserted coronavirus in Wuhan, brought up by the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-official-says-us-arm...

avip• 6 years ago

This comment could be a-priori applied to any "Bob sends aid to Alice" case?

vlunkr• 6 years ago

Exactly. Any time a wealthy person contributes to a good cause people have to start deciding what the alterior motives are.

o_p3• 6 years ago

Yeah China bad USA good. If anything China has done much more to contain the virus.

spectramax6• 6 years ago

Truth. They're using drones to following people and ask them to go back into their homes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPw6xjwAlHc

With complete lack of freedom and privacy, you can achieve a lot. They're doing better than any western country would: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-slowed-coronavirus-lo...

strategarius• 6 years ago

China has done much more to contain the virus

Like:

- censoring alarming posts in social networks for weeks

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/china-censored-cov...

- threatening medical staff with prosecution in case of warning other people on early stages of pandemic

https://qz.com/1798859/chinese-doctors-coronavirus-death-uni...

- flooding internet discussions with crowds of state trolls spreading disinformation

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/fee3ct/chinese_t...

mnm1• 6 years ago

Painting? That's the reality, The US response is a disaster that will likely surpass Italy. We have done close to nothing. Maybe he's trying to help because we are too fucking incompetent to test on our own. The question is, will the US take the help or be the too proud asshole it's always been and ignore it like they did with the WHO test?

blihp• 6 years ago

No one needs to paint a picture of our institutions struggling to the world... we've been doing a fine job of that ourselves. Had a U.S. company made the same gesture to another country, our media would be covering it as humanitarian aid or building goodwill. The fact is that we currently have an inadequate supply of masks and test kits so I think an appropriate response would be 'thank you' regardless of any potentially less than altruistic motives.

pedroma• 6 years ago

China has rejected aid before from certain entities/countries. They obviously view foreign aid as a power move.

elliotec• 6 years ago

What an awful take. This is charity. Don't be such a cynic, especially when people do good things. We need more of that and less skepticism of it.

jariel2• 6 years ago

It's mostly a nice gesture and good PR.

If it was purely humanitarian, there would be no press release, but there's nothing wrong with him getting a thumbs up for this.

Most rich guys like to get some 'brownie points' while they give money away, which is fine.

josephorjoe• 6 years ago

It is not at all incorrect.

For whatever reason, the US lacks the ability and/or the capability of responding effectively to this crisis.

The assistance is valuable and should be respected and appreciated accordingly.

And if people in the US feel uncomfortable about what this assistance implies about the US -- well, there will be time to consider why that is so and what can be done about it at a future date.

coenhyde• 6 years ago

US institutions are struggling! That is reality. Take your ego out of the picture and let Jack Ma save lives.

m0zg• 6 years ago

Be that as it may, we should accept, and thank him for it. This is not the time for dick measuring contests, and our institutions that were supposed to deal with this (CDC/FDA) have objectively failed.

ghouse• 6 years ago

Because when our social contract with each other fails, we rely on the generosity of the wealthy few to step in to assist.

tomohawk3• 6 years ago

One of the reasons the US developed its own test was that the test that China was using had a 48% false negative rate. These are probably the same tests.

rannn• 6 years ago

Yeah. The one CDC developed was faulty as well. That's why China is doing multiple tests on patients. As well as doing CT scans widely. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-13/china-cor... US is just wasting time, period.

tomohawk3• 6 years ago

Yes, CDC flubbed the test, probably because theirs was a 3 part test. They also ordered that other labs wait for the CDC test instead of making their own. However, any test used had to pass FDA muster at that time, and a test with a 48% false negative rate likely would not.

The CDC is probably not the most agile organization, but I'm hoping that they will scale.

sandov2• 6 years ago

The guy is either a complete idiot [1] or pretends to be one. I wouldn't over-analyze his actions too much.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHGd6LqAVzw

knzhou8• 6 years ago

Yes, he's a native Chinese speaker whose English is clumsy and ineloquent.

Guess how native English speakers sound when they're trying to speak Chinese?

nostromo• 6 years ago

It wasn’t a language barrier issue though. And his English isn’t clumsy. It's that the actual content of what he said was ridiculous. It reminded me of the kind of BS Adam Neumann would say.

sandov2• 6 years ago

No. He makes himself understood quite well. It's just that what he says is stupid.

jmknoll• 6 years ago

For what it’s worth, Jack Ma has a degree in English and taught English at a Chinese university.

Chinese unis don’t have the best reputation, but I would expect him to be able to speak the language decently well at least.

justicezyx2• 6 years ago

Well you are not his audience.

Jack Ma knows very well what is AI and all such things. You can look at Alibaba Group's hiring frenzy for AI talents as a signal.

In the end, Jack wants to be an approachable power figure to common (Chinese) people. He shows up in Alibaba's annual corp party wearing weird dresses and sing in front of 100k+ live audience. People call him the "Daddy Ma" in reference to his influence on their buying activities online.

He behaves in this fashion, which the so-called philosophy (or Daoism/Zen-like thinking) trumps the hard reasoning. That gives him an aura of an elevated figure above scientists, engineers, and alike.

The point is, powerful people listen to each other because of the power they wield. Must has to listen to Jack, because Jack can influence the Chinese government in a much more effective way than himself. If it was an actual AI expert on that stage, Must probably wont show much interests in that discussion anyway...

ergocoder• 6 years ago

This doesn't make him an idiot.

He didn't believe AI could be smarter than the smartest human (IIRC).

It's a different point of view.

You can disagree. But calling him an idiot makes you an asshole, tbh.

The interview was cringey as fuck because of his English skill. He couldn't deliver a joke properly like the joke about Alibaba Intelligence. Musk also didn't handle the joke well (not his fault.. he isn't a professional MC).

jorblumesea• 6 years ago

Political. The US doesn't need test kits and masks, it needs approval for labs and cutting bureaucratic red tape.

yadongwen• 6 years ago

Pretty sure in a couple of weeks US will need masks and other equipment. China very likely is the biggest producer of masks and as the number of new cases drops to near zero they have the extra capacity to donate to the rest of world.

zeroone101• 6 years ago

The issue isn't "test kits". Its labs to run the tests. It seems like the CDC and state governments are addressing that. Not really sure what this is trying to solve.

woofie11• 6 years ago

Thank you. That's what I gotta say. Thank you.

I hate all the cynics and conspiracy theories here. It's a generous move, and deeply appreciated.

Jack didn't spend that much money to be a douchebag. He spent it because this will save countless lives.

mehrdadn• 6 years ago

Yeah, honestly. Even as someone who can be cynical about things, I still think this is very much kind and appreciated. Meanwhile I know others who say it's political and means pretty much nothing... I just don't know how to reply.

adventured• 6 years ago

It's clearly no more political than the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation directing funds & other resources to assist China (and Asia broadly) the other direction, for which Xi personally thanked Bill [1]. China has an enormous amount of wealth and production capacity, anything they can help out with is a positive. As they bring their outbreak under control, they'll have dramatic spare capacity around test kits and medical supplies, that can benefit the rest of the world.

[1] http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/22/c_138807761.htm

xenadu02• 6 years ago

It's not much different from the Gates Foundation and similar ventures. When you're so rich money doesn't matter philanthropic works are expected.

It also doesn't help that the current administration has bungled the testing from day 1; in the past we would have ramped up testing when the disease was spreading in China. Whether it's lack of leadership, incompetence, or deliberate we don't know. But Dear Leader certainly won't take responsibility for it and isn't interested in solving the problem so lack of leadership is definitely a factor. My guess is at least some in the administration were dumb enough to believe it wouldn't spread in the US.

AviationAtom• 6 years ago

Jack Ma seems like a pretty cool dude from what I know of him. I think he's kind of seen as their version of Elon Musk.

Leary• 6 years ago

Masayoshi Son wanted to give his home country Japan 1 million tests, and suffered a huge backlash on Twitter from people who said too many tests would "overwhelm the health system".

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/masayoshi-son-breaks-twitter...

No good deed goes unpunished, i guess.

uranusjr• 6 years ago

The news feel under-informed to me. Much of the backlash against Son is carried-over from his other comment to send free masks to medical personnel. People are “wondering loudly” where on earth does he get so many masks when almost literally nobody in Japan can buy any. Doesn’t his move make the problem worse? The test tweet is under similar fire. How is he going to “provide” these tests? Japanese people are not getting tests not because they cannot afford them, but there is not enough medical resource to run the tests. He offering free tests does not move the needle much, but on the other hand may disrupt the already short-handed medical personnel.

Son has long been criticised in Japan of deception via selective facts. The reputation may or may not be justified (he might just not be good at expressing himself and never felt the need to clarify), but his recent tweets are very on-brand with a bold claim and little detail, and it’s understandable for the Japanese to express the same doubts based on his persumed track record.

t2riRXawYxLGGYb• 6 years ago

Power move or not, these are things the US desperately needs. Just accept the damn supplies, thank them, and try to do better next time.

avocado4• 6 years ago

There's no shortage of test kits, there's a shortage of PCR lab capacity to process those samples.

Masks and ventilators would be a good thing to donate though.

Gibbon1• 6 years ago

There are antibody test kits as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGhoZ4zl_7w

UncleOxidant• 6 years ago

We could probably use some ventilators as well.

jariel2• 6 years ago

Apparently, almost all of the world's saline bags were made in Puerto Rico, and a single hurricane disrupted this essential gear.

There have been longstanding concerns about strategic food - and even Oil supply, I don't see how the US or any nation can reasonably not have the domestic demand to meet an emergency.

China has been engaging in a form of systematic dumping on a variety of industries for quite a long time - most of us enjoyed the benefits of lower prices while local producers went out of business.

The nefariousness of their strategy is that it's often difficult to tell the difference between simple 'low-cost advantage' vs. actual dumping strategies, and who in the business world is going to argue against lower prices? Nobody.

The US military certainly wouldn't have 99% of their ammunition 'made in China', well, war is much more than bullets, moreover, there's much more to life than war ...

It's definitely time to have national regulations on a lot of such goods. A simple ban on the import of strategic goods would work really well - America is large enough that there'd be several domestic providers.

Americans would end up paying more for certain items, but does it really matter when the surpluses are so large? So it costs $4 per mask instead of $2? The price is not as important as availability. It would be a very natural and synergistic way to increase wages as well.

This could be done in concert with a few key allies on a product by product basis.

pl0x• 6 years ago

While this is a kind gesture it is likely propaganda and a power move.

_gccu7• 6 years ago

And what if the mask itself is already tainted with the virus? Wouldn't you want to verify that it's actually free of the virus in the first place? It is coming from China.

mythrwy2• 6 years ago

Mask tainted with virus? Cmmon man, that is a tremendous stretch of likelihood. And would lead to action.

Original poster was talking about masks not meeting some specification. And I'm pretty sure most of your stuff has been coming from China for a long time.

I really am mindblown by both your, and original poster's negativity on this. The guy is almost certainly trying to help. So thanks. And I say this as someone who disapproves very strongly of the CCP.

_gccu7• 6 years ago

I don't care about "some spec". I want to know how this product, that is coming from China, isn't already tainted with the virus itself.

Your refutation to my logic is "cmmon man" ?

It would lead to what action precisely?

I'm not a pessimist. I'm trying to be pragmatic.

jessaustin8• 6 years ago

tainted

OMG this is so racist. The vast majority of surgical masks sold in USA in last several decades were made in China. If they were shitting on them we would have noticed. The majority of items sold in USA stores are manufactured in China. They're not intentionally infecting them before selling them to us. Chinese manufacturers sensibly shut down in the most heavily affected areas, in contrast to those in USA. The people dumb enough to look this gift horse in the mouth are all toilet paper hoarders.

ck2• 6 years ago

There is no way the current administration is going to accept them and make the US look "weak" or "dire". Without exaggeration it's an easy guess they will sit in a warehouse unused no matter how urgent the need.

MuffinFlavored• 6 years ago

How much do the test kits cost and how are they made? What materials? I read there are like, 3 key special materials involved?

How are they administered? I've Googled and haven't found a simple answer. Is it spit?

Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

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