Silicon Valley Is Listening to Your Most Intimate Moments

https://www.bloombergquint.com/bq-blue-exclusive/silicon-valley-got-millions-to-let-siri-and-alexa-listen-in

by elsewhen • 7 years ago

120 92 7 years ago

bloombergquint.com

willis936• 7 years ago

Can I get a pastebin link?

krackers• 7 years ago

I believe this is the same article, non-paywalled: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-12-11/silicon-v...

3xblah2• 7 years ago

   curl https://www.bloombergquint.com/amp/bq-blue-exclusive/silicon-valley-got-millions-to-let-siri-and-alexa-listen-in |sed -n 'N;/story-element-text">/p' > a.htm

   firefox a.htm

Replace "firefox" with any browser that can process basic HTML. No Javascript or CSS needed.

mirimir4• 7 years ago

Thank you !!!

Nice hack.

markwakeford• 7 years ago

You can also just disable javascript for the website.

AdrienLemaire• 7 years ago

This is what you get if you block javascript for www.bloombergquint.com: https://i.imgur.com/LrPYVmq.png

3xblah2• 7 years ago

Unfortunately, the popular graphical browsers AFAIK do not allow the user to disable CSS. Other news sites that use AMP, such as WSJ, use CSS as well as Javascript to annoy the user. Disabling Javascript is not enough. It is possible to remove the offensive CSS from a page through the browser's developer console, developer tools, etc. but at that point we may as well use a browser extension.

Here is a filter for WSJ.

   sed -n '/<article/,/<\/article/{/./{/<h1/,/<\/h1>/p;};/<title>/,/<\/title>/p;/./{/<p>[^<]*/,/<\/p>/p;};}' a.htm

shadowprofile77• 7 years ago

Not mine. For those stupid or simply indifferent enough to have one of these spying, revolting, idiotically vapid machines in their home and always on, possibly. Better to not even keep a cell phone nearby for really private moments and conversations.

rickncliff• 7 years ago

It's unfortunate that this almarmist technophobic slant is considered worthy journalism.

chillwaves• 7 years ago

If the community did not value this viewpoint, you would not see it on the front page. Perhaps your disdain is misdirected.

mirimir4• 7 years ago

If they did the voice recognition locally, there wouldn't be a privacy issue. And that would arguably be far cooler technology.

tomc1985• 7 years ago

Exactly. Cloud-powered voice assistants are thoroughly uninteresting and a huge privacy concern. Local, 100% in-device processing should be the future and if that were the case this link would indeed be "alarmist"

cryptozeus• 7 years ago

I just sold my google home mini for $10...never trusting these devices inside my home anymore

tekstar• 7 years ago

What changed? As in, what made you think they were okay and then realize they were not?

blaser-waffle2• 7 years ago

Like, did parent think "well, google has a great reputation at avoiding data mining, so let's go with them!"

kirillzubovsky• 7 years ago

If we are to get technical, Silicon Valley is not listening to your secret, workers in the rest of the country are.

jonny_eh• 7 years ago

And those workers don't know you.

manishsharan• 7 years ago

Remember when you could buy bluetooth speakers that you could listen to without the speaker listening to you ?

Nowadays everyone of my friends has a alexa or google speakers which sound shitty compared to real speakers and they spy on our conversations. For what ? to turn the fucking lights on or play a tune on demand? those lazy dumbasses cant be bothered to get off their butt to turn the lights on ? If only I had privacy conscious friends.

LeftHandPath3• 7 years ago

My dad has his whole house wired up with echo dots in every room, voice-activated lights, voice-control TV, and those shitty $100 security cameras in every room.

I've tried to explain why he doesn't need them. His response (about the security cameras) is always, "If there's ever a break in, I'll be glad I have them." The fact that actually using a light switch sets in motion a 20-minute repair via iPad doesn't seem to bother him. He doesn't view the wiretaps as a problem. He (with my mother's help) recently bought a wifi-enabled fridge and kitchen sink.

I love my parents to death, but it's ridiculous. I'm to the point where I usually leave my phone in the next room over when I'm not using it (and please check me in at a psych ward if I ever buy a smart-watch with a cellular connection and an omni-directional microphone). Its beneficial for clarity of thought / lack of distraction as well as for privacy.

Connectivity for connectivity's sake will be the death of freedom.

paggle• 7 years ago

What does a WiFi kitchen sink do?

avs733• 7 years ago

It's funny...we've had this conversation with my mother repeatedly but she doesn't see a way technology companies could 'do anything bad with her asking for directions'

My siblings and I have drawn a line at DNA testing. She keeps talking about submitting her DNA to some mail order testing company and it has been made clear that would be the end of our relationship. We will try and help her protect her own privacy but have zero tolerance for her disrespecting ours.

BLKNSLVR• 7 years ago

So much of the current "home automation" products appear to me to be more parlour tricks than actual automation. Having to ask for something to happen is such a high technological cost for such a tiny change in convenience in the age of already being able to remote control a bunch of stuff with your phone.

There are actual proper home automation products out there, and some of them can interface via these privacy invading microphones masquerading as speakers, but the microphones themselves aren't "home automation" by any useful definition, they're just another alternative remote control.

I wonder if they use the term "smart speaker" because "microphone" just brings up thoughts of Banksy artwork?

therein• 7 years ago

If you think about it, it is clear that Amazon and Google put a lot more R&D into the microphones than the speakers in these things. Yet they insist on calling them smart speakers, not smart microphones.

It would be like if you took a device with a camera and called it a portal or something.

asdff5• 7 years ago

The real rub is there's hardly any incentive to make things play nice with eachother for a while. You buy a garage door opener, it works for 30 years. You get one that can interface with your smart speaker, and both are unsupported in a few years.

You end up paying far more, way more often, for something vaguely more convenient than the old method. A clap light.

On the flip side, with the expansion of IoT comes creativity for people willing to tinker. We are pretty lucky to have resources like github, raspberry pi, self hosted services, just options from the mainstream consumer ad spam crap if you are willing to stick your head under the hood.

sl1ck7312• 7 years ago

The same could be said for everything. "Those lazy dumbasses can't be bothered to order a pizza over the phone?", "those lazy dumbasses can't hail a cab themselves?". No need to insult people for making something easier for themselves. It might be turning off the lights for some, but mine saves me a trip down to and through my basement to open my garage door, which is more convenience than 99% of the crap SV is pushing out.

allovernow2• 7 years ago

Well, there's one difference. You're not getting inferior pizza by ordering online. The vast majority of Bluetooth speakers are marketed for convenience to people who don't understand the difference in sound quality that you get from full sized speakers. And this isn't some audiophile voodoo snobbery - it's physics, you simply can't get both good volume and good reproduction without size.

thaumasiotes• 7 years ago

"Those lazy dumbasses can't be bothered to order a pizza over the phone?"

To be fair, I'm happy to order a pizza online, and I'd be (a little less) happy to order a pizza through a phone tree, but I don't want to order a pizza over the phone because I don't want to talk to the person on the other end. The amount of work involved in placing the order doesn't really come into it.

I would also note, though, that pizza orders given to a person over the phone are frequently messed up, while orders placed online come out correctly.

newnewpdro2• 7 years ago

It's surprising how much convenience and novelty trumps everything else.

reddog• 7 years ago

Keep in mind, some people literally can't get off their butts to turn the lights on.

And if you have lost your sight, being able to play a tune on demand via an Echo voice command is a miracle. So is being able to listen to a podcast or audio book. Or being able to ask how old Tom Brady is, how many tablespoons in a quarter cup, what's the weather next week and how far it is between Dallas and Austin.

rorykoehler• 7 years ago

Edge cases which almost definitely don't apply to the people they are talking about.

throwawaybcporn• 7 years ago

(I mean this rhetorically, not as an actual insult...)

You're a lazy dumbass who types on a smartphone who can't be bothered to etch it into rock instead.

drewcon• 7 years ago

Serious question. Why is Alexa on an Echo different than Siri on a phone? Seems like there is clear outrage about “surveillance economy listening devices” (from some members of this community) when they’re in your kitchen but not your pocket? Why is that different?

aaronbrethorst• 7 years ago

Amazon vs. Apple

im3w1l2• 7 years ago

You can disable the assistant on the phone.

jedberg4• 7 years ago

You can disable the assistant on the echo too...

mirimir4• 7 years ago

It's not that different. Especially for third parties, who don't control the device.

When in others' homes, I typically ask whether there are listening devices. And if so, I request that they be disconnected. And if the host declines, I may leave -- or at least say nothing consequential.

My wife's phone is on 24/7 and almost always within easy reach. So I never say anything consequential, unless it's been moved to the utility closet. Lots of fan noise there.

Edit: From https://blog.cyberwar.nl/2016/02/some-elements-of-intelligen...

17. The greatest material curse to the profession, despite all its advantages, is undoubtedly the telephone. It is a constant source of temptation to slackness. And even if you do not use it carelessly yourself, the other fellow, very often will, so in any case, warn him. Always act on the principle that every conversation is listened to, that a call may always give the enemy a line. Naturally, always unplug during confidential conversations. Even better is it to have no phone in your room, or else have it in a box or cupboard.

tommit• 7 years ago

See, although I can't really identify with your attitude, I can respect it because you seems to _really_ care about it and are thorough about it.

What I really cannot stand are the people that will complain about an Alexa being in the room, while at the same time posting three Instagram stories a day, having their phone assistant listening constantly, maybe played around with tik tok ... at that point, you really don't care about privacy, you're just cherry picking. I think a large part of it stems from the fact that a "always listening smart speaker" is something where even the most technologically inept can add two and two together and figure out how it could be "used against you" so to speak. That their phone could technically be doing the same thing, and that throwing massive amounts of personal data at Facebook willingly could lead to similar privacy concerns, doesn't even cross their minds.

dehrmann3• 7 years ago

Siri gets to go on field trips.

elliekelly• 7 years ago

If I disconnect Siri from the internet she’s still “smart”. Alexa isn’t.

Lio3• 7 years ago

It’s not. Some of us disable Siri on our phones too.

squidgy• 7 years ago

Interesting that in a marketplace where seemingly all home speakers on offer have voice assist, Sonos' newest small speaker, the Sonos One SL, is described as "Microphone-free".

sfRattan2• 7 years ago

I chuckle at a 'reassurance' like that one. Mechanically, a speaker is a poorly optimized microphone and a microphone is a poorly optimized speaker.[1]

I don't doubt there are people working for most major governments' intelligence departments who can use malicious software to facilitate listening through a computer connected speaker when surveilling a target (even if that speaker doesn't have an integrated microphone, in a very literal sense it is a microphone).

[1] https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/154343/can-a-sp...

Edit: precision of language

mojuba• 7 years ago

Let alone back in the day landline phones were used as wiretapping devices, even when you are not speaking on the phone and it's on hook. The telephony standard was designed with this in mind, i.e. the possibility to turn any phone on-hook or off-hook to a listening device.

IshKebab• 7 years ago

This is paranoid nonsense. Sure a speaker can be used as a very bad microphone. But only if you plug it into a microphone input! Are government agents going to break into your house and rewire your smart speaker? Of course not.

louis_pasteur• 7 years ago

"I have nothing to hide wizo geeko, here take this middle finger" is the answer we get when we try to inform people about privacy. Even large scale privacy breaches of sensitive information have had no impact on people's privacy awareness.

steveeq1• 7 years ago

Whenever they say that, ask them how much money they made last year. When they say "no" ask, "why, do you have anything to hide?".

jedberg4• 7 years ago

I guess having done AI and security for 20 years means none of this fazes me.

Of course they record what you say, and of course a human is listening to it. How else would they train their models?

I also believe Amazon when they say that it isn't recording unless the blue light is on, and that only comes on when it thinks you said "Alexa".

I mute the device when I'm having a private conversation. If it activates otherwise, I'm pretty aware of that.

I guess it just doesn't really bother me. I have a pretty good idea of what it's recording.

fabrice_d• 7 years ago

Do you also have a good idea of what is recorded when you're at someone else place? Do you ask them to mute their devices?

utopian32• 7 years ago

Do you ask people to turn off their smartphones when you’re at their house? Or at dinner? Or in public?

dehrmann3• 7 years ago

I'd assume everything between "Alexa" and the response.

dehrmann3• 7 years ago

The headline (I blame Bloomberg on this) would be much less clickbaity as "Silicon Valley Records Your Digital Assistant Requests."

saagarjha• 7 years ago

I guess having done AI and security for 20 years means none of this fazes me.

Unfortunately I'd have to guess that many of the people not doing AI and security for 20 years would be considerably more surprised.

Balgair• 7 years ago

I have a pretty good idea of what it's recording.

Like an 8 year old girl?[0]

Yeah, it's a Ring doorbell camera thingy, but Ring has been an Amazon product for just shy of two years now. Sure we can blame the mother for setting it up 'wrong', or for using an old password, or some other very common problem that <99% of all user will have. But creeps have shown that it's not just straightforward, but easy, to get into these devices.

It's better to just not have them in the first place.

[0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-hacks-ring-camera-8...

blackflame• 7 years ago

HA! Jokes on them! I don’t have any! Wait...

aSplash0fDerp• 7 years ago

For those old enough to have heard stories about party line telephone usage, this appears to be the modern version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_line_(telephony)

As someone mentioned, the money is in localizing many of the cloud services.. Or the modern version of shrink-wrap software, which removes the whole "you're the product" profit motive.

For the casual observer, the ongoing drama of merging your wallet, personal diary, communications, plus other activities and oozing metadata 24/7 is just too tempting for strangers. All of that money for nothing is high stakes nowadays. Caveat emptor...

Silicon Valley Is Listening to Your Most Intimate Moments

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