Ask YC: Dealing with a major event like death?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=212479

by lyime • 18 years ago

62 54 18 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I am a senior in College and studying for finals right now.

On thursday(6/5) I returned back to my apartment in the evening and found my roommate dead in his room. The reason for death is still unknown but it is most likely due to an accidental overdose. He had been diagnosed with chronic fatigued. It has been a hard few days since then.

I have also been working on my startup/side project in the mean time and have milestones to finish.

Has any of you been in this position? It has been emotionally tough for me and I am trying to stay strong and keep my mind focused.

EDIT: Thank you YC for all your support. This community means a lot to me.

crystalarchives• 18 years ago

Although I am fortunate because I can say that nothing like this has ever happened to me, my sincerest, warmest condolences go out to you and your roommate's friends and family. I cannot imagine what it must be like. I hope you find strength and light in a time of darkness.

I wish you the very best of luck on both your last year of college and your startup; enjoy them as much as possible!

Let us know if you need anything - I am sure I speak on behalf of the YC community in offering you our heartfelt support and assistance.

johns• 18 years ago

Sorry for your loss. I'd suggest taking a short break from the startup to focus on finals and getting through this tough time. You'll know when you're ready to get back at it.

icky• 18 years ago

Finals can also be put off. The school will certainly have a leave of absence program.

kyro• 18 years ago

I'd hate to give you advice that I know won't work, because I've received the same in the past. I can only tell you what I've learned from my experience.

Last year, as finals were approaching, I would drive up north every weekend to see my grandpa in the hospital. He was suffering from a bad case of kidney failure. It was an immensely stressful time of my life, ultimately ending in him passing away the weekend before finals. We were extremely close. After hearing the news, attending the funeral, etc., I realized I hadn't cried much, and thought that was weird. I was bottling up my emotions thinking that is was the 'manly' way of coping. What happened was that I had bottled up so much emotion, that the bottle couldn't contain any more, and every so often the bottle started to leak emotions, and I found myself in periodic ruts of depression. So the lesson for me was to just mourn.

So, just mourn. Of course, realize that you have responsibilities and goals that need attention, but if taking time off will help you cope, then so be it. Face the situation and don't try to run around it, because it will catch up with you.

My condolences.

FiReaNG3L• 18 years ago

Take time to deal with the emotional side, the milestones can wait.

LPTS4• 18 years ago

I'm not sure I agree.

If your side project is really important to you, and this event derails it considerably, then you risk your memories of your friend being tainted with resentment. If it is a matter of a couple days, that is different.

You should process the emotions (by seeing a grief counselor) but you should be open to deciding to keep with your project so that disappointment over derailing your project does not morph with grief and other negative emotions from your friends dying.

lief792• 18 years ago

A startup requires a lot of effort. If he is still excited by the idea and can work on it, then go for it. If he is finding that he is a different person, that's fine too. Everybody responds differently.

I know that with the loss of a family member, the general guidelines are not to make major choices for a year or so. If he is graduating from college, then that may not an option.

mdolon• 18 years ago

I've had a close friend of mine taken in a very bad way this past year, which also happened to be my senior year of college. Luckily for me, she was not only my friend but very well known throughout our community and we all came together to mourn our loss AND celebrate her great accomplishments. I still think about her often and hope to live by the goodness she represented. I've gotten to think of the entire event as a blessing in disguise, as our loss has now brought us together and caused us to reevaluate our goals, principles and lifestyles.

My sincerest, heartfelt condolences to you for your loss. Spend time with those who are close to you and remember him, what he stood for, his impact on you and what you can do to better yourself. I know it must be very hard now but just know that in time, it will pass. Life will move on and it is our responsibility to remember those lost and live our lives the best we can. Surround yourself with your loved ones in tough times, that is probably the best advice I can give. Good luck on finals.

jdavid• 18 years ago

dealing with death is usually very difficult when you do not know how it sits with you, and how it sits with your world view (religion, faith, family, geography, and your expectations). i think that mourning is just a part of the process to find out what you really believe in, its a hard test that life throws our way. just know that you can pass it and look forward to what is next. i find comfort in knowing that death is just a part of life, like birth is too. i find comfort in knowing that God has a plan for all of us, and that everything is a part of that plan.

mechanical_fish• 18 years ago

My condolences. That must be very, very tough.

Many colleges have counseling services and I'd advise you to seek them out ASAP. They can help you. Among the least important of the things they can do is help you try and get some extensions on your finals so that you don't have to concentrate on some stupid book less than a week after this terrible shock.

If your college can't help I'd still advise you to see a counselor. As someone who is married to a counselor, I assure you that they have skills that I will never match, especially over the freaking Internet. I do love the web, but sometimes it really is a lousy substitute for a face-to-face conversation with a human being.

I will confine myself to this advice: Your finals are unimportant, and your "milestones" an order of magnitude less important than that. Your well-being is important. Give yourself permission to mourn. You need to do it -- everyone needs to do it -- and it's unreasonable to expect it to be possible to shunt it off to the side and focus on work. And, in general, the people around you will understand this. The world will not come to an end if you take some time for yourself.

[Composed before I read kyro's post, which is precisely on point.]

jfoutz• 18 years ago

So, a long time ago, my best friend died. It was really hard. I didn't eat or talk much. I still go to his grave from time to time. It was a fundamental change in my life.

Take the time you need. A week of renting old movies or playing video games is a tiny tiny risk to both your degree and your startup.

I'm not sure what's best for you, but for me, i had to take time to figure out what it meant that my friend was never coming back. It's hard. Once I came to grips with that i thought a lot about what really matters.

If it was me, I'd not work on the startup, and just doing enough school to keep up for a day or three... Spend time thinking through exactly why I was in school, and why i'm doing a startup. But again, do what's best for you. Maybe work is just the thing to keep your mind off how tough something like this is.

Call your parents. Talking to my dad was a lot better than my mom.

If you feel like i think you feel, these words won't really mean any thing, but you have my deepest sympathy. It gets easier... but there are always tough days.

jrockway• 18 years ago

No amount of grieving is going to bring anyone back from the dead, so try to move on with your life.

donw2• 18 years ago

While nice, it often isn't that simple. I've been floored for quite some time now due to a similar set of circumstances, and even for normally resilient people, it can take a long time to bounce back.

gruseom• 18 years ago

No amount of grieving is going to bring anyone back from the dead

That's not the purpose of grieving. Surely that's obvious? It seems to me its purpose is precisely to move on with one's life. Disconnecting from your feelings is not a very effective strategy in the long run.

gizmo• 18 years ago

Try a change of scenery, avoid doing things and places that remind you of your roommate. Try to study at a different location, maybe the library or a starbucks. Find a different place to sleep too, crash at friends maybe. Don't mourn or even think about what happened until you've hit your milestones. Thinking even a little will open a flood of emotions. Play a game or something (flash game / mine sweeper / super mario) whenever you need to take a break or when you lose focus, but don't let your brain go idle. Get more sleep deprived than usual, so your brain will be a bit less reflective and you will fall asleep quicker too. Oh, and try to completely avoid news sites and all that stuff.

At least, this is how I handled it when I didn't have time to mourn. Your milage may vary. My condolences and I hope you'll make it through this period.

ghiotion• 18 years ago

I watched a friend of mine slowly die of AIDS over a number of years. I was in the room at the Hospice when he actually died.

I drank to deal with it.

My wife's 18 year old brother died of a stroke in his sleep. He was an adopted kid who's biological mother was a cocaine addict.

She wrote a book about him.

I ended up with alcohol problems and she is close to getting a book deal. I'd say her approach was the superior one.

andreyf5• 18 years ago

I'm not sure what the best way to put this is without sounding insensitive, but death of a loved one, although tragic, can be an opportunity for a sobering-up unlike any other. lyime, maybe this is a good time to re-consider the fundamentals in life, take some time to think about what you want and where you are going?

lyime2• 18 years ago

When you say re-consider the fundamentals of life what exactly are you referring to? What should I think about, sorry just trying to understand what you are saying.

andreyf5• 18 years ago

This is definitely a time to put everything on hold and think about life for a bit.

School, jobs, and startup can wait - talk to a dean about your finals, you can take them at the end of the summer. As far as jobs, write "Expected graduation: Summer 2008", on your resume and get a letter from your school explaining there are extraordinary circumstances that prevented you from taking your finals.

Spend time in places without distractions (mountain, park, beach?) and let your mind wander for awhile - think about life, about what your roommate's passing means in respect to your life. When you feel ready to get back, you'll be more focused than before.

Death of a close one is always a sobering experience - take some time to take it in fully before getting on with things.

All the best, practically and emotionally, Andrey

msg• 18 years ago

You don't deal with death. It deals with you.

In a short span when I was younger, a friend killed himself, my great grandmother died at 99 years 11 months of age, an acquaintance died in a car accident, and an old friend's brother died in a freak golf accident from a brain aneurysm.

It's not an exaggeration to say it all changed my life permanently. My advice is to let it. Don't go stoic and pretend it is something that happens every day. There is a quote by Camus that gives you a sense of the solemnity and the terror of the thing: "Don't wait for the Last Judgment; it happens every day."

This one may not be for everyone, but John Donne wrote some words about death that I have found useful at these times.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."

http://www.online-literature.com/donne/409/

Those words are not just about your friend... they're about you. Death is deeper than cells and physics. Be involved in mankind. Don't be an island. Lean on your friends and family.

And take time to process things. Life can wait.

donw2• 18 years ago

May your friend rest in peace, and may you find some source of comfort and solace.

I wish I had some properly good advice, but I'm woefully behind on my project for a very similar reason.

kravis• 18 years ago

1) Keep your friends and relatives close to you 2) Amuse yourself - TV, Movies, books, chat, etc. 3) Exercise - Jogging, Basketball, etc. 4) Move on and accept that sometimes things happen...

rw2• 18 years ago

In the last year, two very good friends of mine lost fathers to suicide. One friend chose to seek emotional shelter in his family and friends, and he let the necessary depression and mourning take over his life for about a year, while he was in a safe place.

The other became an alcoholic and a drug dealer.

Honor your friend and his memory, by putting him first now, so that later in life, you will know that you have made your peace.

rokhayakebe• 18 years ago

Lyime,

I am really sorry for your loss. I had a similar experience. I worked at a spot a few years ago. I had one particular guy stick his neck out for me and help me a lot. We worked side by side and he would drive me home almost every day after work.

I would never forget. I was sick on Tuesday and he was very caring and asked me several time if I needed anything. The next morning I came to work and found he died. He collapsed at home and when they got him to the hospital they found he was at the final state of diabetes and he never knew it.

I was shocked and did not cry right away. I was extremely hurt and I felt better when I stop trying to be tough and cried when I wanted to.

Acceptance will help you. Think of the good moments you had and cry about it as well. It will be good.

I wish you the best and always remember "what does not kill, makes one stronger".

mattmaroon• 18 years ago

I'm a believer in grief counseling. Instead of asking a bunch of hackers who can at best somewhat relate due to something somewhat similar, go ask a professional trained to help you in this sort of situation.

LPTS4• 18 years ago

I second this, and want to add to it.

This is particularly important if you feel like you might have conflicted emotions. For example, it will be almost impossible for you to process your emotions, if you are actually feeling anger (for him putting you through this) or guilt (for being angry, too, or "I could of stopped it" type thinking) involved in the complex emotion you are trying to process called grief. These are all legitimate ways to feel. A professional will know how to sort out those different feelings and process them. It would be hard to do that on your own.

bootload2• 18 years ago

"... A professional will know how to sort out those different feelings and process them. It would be hard to do that on your own. ..."

I'd hesitate to advise someone to be debriefed by a professional. For all their training, empathy, my thoughts & feelings are my own. Not to be dissected, diagnosed and cataloged. A diagnosed "cure" coming from a pill.

When I was a bit younger than most of you blokes, I organised and executed a medical emergency extraction. The young lad later died from severe wounds. With hind sight I'd would have done 2 things

- postpone my studies

- repeat the story to as many people as I can tell

The first point recognises you are likely to be in shock with all the associated symptoms - numbness, forgetfulness, irritability, inability to concentrate. The second point is a pretty good antidote for PSTD and I practice it when I get the occasion. A chat to a group of sympathetic mates down the pub over a pint, is going to more than turning a tragic event into a medical event.

So put the startup plan on hold. Do something different. You will gain perspective over time. Look out for trigger events. It can give you flashbacks. I started to get them years after and had to use different techniques and put to rest ghosts of the past.

LPTS4• 18 years ago

"I'd hesitate to advise someone to be debriefed by a professional. For all their training, empathy, my thoughts & feelings are my own. Not to be dissected, diagnosed and cataloged."

That's an archaic attitude towards psychology.

A trained psychological professional, will, for example, differentiate between their own experiences and those of their client, while the people on here will tell their own stories as if their stories have relevance on how this guy should proceed. (That can be healthy, too, but it's not a substitute for a primary relationship with a person trained at recognizing the places transference operates).

What you shouldn't do is take any advice on here. That would be like getting programming advice from a psychologist. I've done a couple years of work with people on hospice, and have done a little with suicide prevention stuff. So I'm aware that these professionals should be respected and used, and I'm also aware how pathetically easy it is to get duped by transference during these situations involving grief.

Get real help.

kn0thing• 18 years ago

I'm sorry to hear that, lyime.

The reality is that coping with such an event is different for everyone.

You owe it to yourself to keep your best interests in mind right now. And if that means putting off your startup and getting finals extensions, then you absolutely should.

eyudkowsky• 18 years ago

You know, I seriously, seriously think that transhumanists have an easier time dealing with death. We're not all conflicted about death. We have no concept that we ought to be bottling up the anger. We don't think we ought to be "coming to terms" with death. Making peace with death is not a goal. Death is horrible and we have to stop it.

There, that's it, you're done. That's the resolution.

http://yudkowsky.net/yehuda.html

(my little brother, he was 19)

rw2• 18 years ago

That is a spectacular essay. Thanks for the link. I have questions about your take on transhumanism, but I don't want to derail this thread. Email?

Jesin• 18 years ago

Do we really need to worry that much about derailing threads when we have nested replies?

visitor4rmindia• 18 years ago

My condolences.

I went through the death of my brother many years ago and it was hard. Looking back, I did some stupid things and some good things. From my experience these may help you:

* Acknowledge your emotion. Cry when you need to. * Talk. The face-to-face conversations I had with my friends were truly life-saving. Even the times they didn't say anything. * Talking a stranger on a bus journey also helped in my case. There was something about it that also helped. * Spend some time alone in a place that you love. * Writing also helped a lot. I wrote a lot. Most of it without really thinking - just pages and pages of anything and everything. It was a great release.

Take care.

wehriam• 18 years ago

I'm sorry for your loss.

Some milestones, perhaps self-imposed professional ones, can wait. Others, like doing well on finals, can't. We all have responsibilities. Prioritize as best you can.

Now might be a good time to call in some favors from friends, family, and your school's faculty. Ask your dean and professors what policy is in situations like this. Talk to your friends. Go to your family.

Part of community is providing aid in difficult times. Don't hesitate to use the resources available to you.

pavelludiq• 18 years ago

When my mother died about 6 months ago it was hard, but I was surprised at how fast i could put my self together and concentrate on my real dreams. I started to learn programming for seriously(before that it was just some curiosity) Started orienting myself and stopped wasting time, because I realised i have no time to lose. You have to be great and have to work hard at your goals. I still wish my mother's guidance and support were here, but i manage pretty well on my own. In the morning when my aunt came to tell me she said "you are a philosopher,you understand, life sometimes sucks" It takes some philosophical patience and understanding to deal with a tragedy, and its always hard. Hope you all take care of yourselfs and not do stupid things, just try to understand your situation and take time to heal if its needed. I needed only a week before i started school again and its nice to talk to people. If i have something as an advice it should be something like "Don't isolate yourself" I know some hackers are loners by nature(im a pretty extreme case) but its good to be around people, that's why we gather in times of tragedy.

kamme• 18 years ago

First let me say I'm sorry for your loss.

The only advice I can give you is talk about it with someone, it doesn't have to be a counselor or something, just a good friend. Also don't think that it does nothing to you anymore in a couple of weeks, it stays hard to cope with but it will get better. Best of luck!

lief792• 18 years ago

Sorry for your loss too.

It's doesn't have to be a counselor, but it can be easier to deal with a professional. I wish I had, because in my situation, I didn't have the right friendships to be able to handle this.

So share with friends. If you have friends that can get you through this, treasure them. Friendships can be a tender thing, and there aren't many people that can handle this easily, let alone with the stress of finals. With this in mind, make it clear to them that they shouldn't feel obligated to be your support. This should help avoid misplaced guilt that they couldn't do more, as well as help you avoid worries about being a burden. Most people have no idea on how to deal with something like this, and even if they do, everyone responds differently.

DanielBMarkham• 18 years ago

At the risk of sounding like a Chinese Fortune Cookie: be where you are.

I've been through various major changes like this while working hard technology problems. Sometimes I tried to put my head into the computer and it just didn't work. Other times it was the best thing to do.

Take time and make yourself grieve. If you need a little alcohol, or a sad movie, or some quiet time in a park -- do whatever it takes to make sure you have given yourself permission to cry.

Be in that grief and live it. I almost want to say "enjoy" it, because grieving is a process of remembrance and release.

Then get back to work. If you haven't grieved enough (you find yourself still obsesses with thinking of your friend) then your head and you heart are in different places.

Be where you are. Live in that world fully.

lurkage• 18 years ago

Most colleges would let you postpone finals after something like this, so you should be able to remove at least that cause of stress, if you want to. On the other hand, you may want to get them over with.

I recommend going somewhere far away for at least a week or so, to reboot your brain.

mynameishere• 18 years ago

I would not let someone else's freak accident derail you, or allow yourself to think that your physical proximity to it is particularly meaningful. Absolve yourself of any responsibility and move on.

urlwolf• 18 years ago

My condolences.

I think one there arae very few unhackable things in life. Unfortunately, feelings are one of them. So I'd join the recommendation posted above: try to get professional help.

edw519• 18 years ago

"This community means a lot to me."

And you mean a lot to this community. You are not alone.

My condolences for your loss.

I have been in this position several times, so I'll share my thoughts, which may or may not help. That's the biggest thing: everybody's different.

In my experience, there's not a whole lot of healing that happens. Time does not heal. Time "eases". So you have to let that happen organically. Postpone your finals. Put your startup on hold. It's OK. (OTOH, some people need something to do but that's not me.)

Get another room. You shouldn't have to relive that day every time you go home.

Be supportive of your roommate's family; they need you now. Do whatever you can to help them .

Get counseling. You don't need Dr. Phil or Oprah. Just a stranger with some credentials who knows when to listen and when to shut up. You'll probably want to talk, so you'll need a good listener who'll know just what to say to help you along your path. I have found group sessions especially helpful; it was always comforting to know that others were going through (almost) the same thing.

Most of all, let things happen as they do. Some of us find comfort sooner than others. Don't be surprised by how you react; you just don't know.

All any of us ever gets is x days. Although your life will never be the same, I wish you the best in resuming living your x-n days as soon as you're ready.

(If you find help from books, an excellent resource is "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" by Harold Kushner.)

TrevorJ• 18 years ago

I'm really sorry that you are going through this, best of luck. My only advice is to not avoid the tough questions things like this bring up in your mind. Our culture makes it very easy to go through your whole life without ever thinking about the "big" questions. Taking the opportunity to do some soul-searching could bring something positive out of a really horrible situation.

midnightmonster• 18 years ago

talking with someone (as many have suggested) is great if you feel like talking. A recent study shows what I've long suspected: not everyone benefits from talking it out, and in fact those who don't want to talk about it and manage toavoid talking about it do even better long term than those who prefer to talk and do.

joemunculus• 18 years ago

This spring I defended my PhD. The very next day I had to fly home to see my cousin, who I grew up with, one last time. She had cancer and died about 5 days later. I am very sad that she is gone, but extremely happy that the timing of events in my life happened such that I was able to get home one last time to see and talk with her before she passed. So, hopefully you will get an explanation for cause of death, but either way maybe you can try and remember a pleasant event with your roommate and use that as a source of comfort. We can't always explain events in life, but we definitely have the power to remember and enjoy what has happened.

dkokelley• 18 years ago

Just 3 weeks ago an Uncle that I was close to died. He wasn't even 50, and he left a wife not even 40 and two children (my cousins) not even 10 years old. Just yesterday I got back from the memorial service. Each person is different, but my advice is to do the following:

A: Do things that need to be done right now, with little emotion. You may still be in shock and your best bet is to keep your studies up, and do any necessary work on your startup.

B: Take the time (maybe even up to a week or so) to mourn, and psychologically "let go" or accept his passing. It will be hard to move forward if you don't do this and the shock wears off and the reality catches up with you.

C: Get back to life. Memorial services are referred to as "Celebration of Life" services because it's the time when you've accepted reality, said your goodbyes, and let go, which allows you to appreciate the time you had with this person, and then move forward a stronger person.

For the past 3 weeks, I feel like I've been living life 1 day at a time. My uncle died while I was house sitting for other family that was away on vacation, and 1 week before finals. Basically, it wasn't a "convenient" time (though I'd be hard pressed to explain what a convenient time would be). Now that the memorial service is over and the family has gone back home, I feel that I can move forward now. I just started a job today, and I'm taking 2 classes over the summer. Letting go has made it easier for me at least to appreciate my uncle's life and move forward with my own.

My condolences to you.

Neoryder• 18 years ago

Grieve, Don't try to escape the pain!

Ask YC: Dealing with a major event like death?

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