Psychological Effects of a 1-Month Meditation Retreat

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5149565/

by idclip • 7 years ago

89 39 7 years ago

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Retric• 7 years ago

“any of the mindfulness courses given by our group during the last 3 years”

This is exactly the kind of bias that makes a study questionable. Is there any good literature tracking such issues, or list of studies with such problems?

surfsvammel• 7 years ago

I don’t get it. What did the control group do? Did they go on a retreat of some kind? Or did they just go on with their normal stressful lives of picking up at daycare, commuting through traffic jams and passive aggressiveness of laundry rooms?

I would like to see the effect of the meditation itself.

elcomet• 7 years ago

The control group was asked not to participate in any retreat (even as short as a 1-day retreat) during the 1-month study period. Their usual daily meditation practice was maintained (40–50 min/session).

kdmccormick• 7 years ago

Oh, so this isn't even meditation vs. non-meditation... it's being in your day-to-day life vs. being away from it.

I'd like to see the long-term effects of a month-long meditation retreat vs. a month-long Carribean getaway, or something similar. I'm saying this as someone who appreciates meditation.

AllegedAlec2• 7 years ago

So big fucking surprise. Getting away from your life for a month is good for your mental health.

Why the fuck are people kicking in open doors being funded and published in what appears to be a decently respectable psychology journal?

cscurmudgeon• 7 years ago

Also all these studies focus only on Buddhist meditation which is just one form of meditation. There are earlier, more diverse and more intense forms of meditation (e.g. Hindu meditation) that many researchers unscientifically ignore due to their theological roots.

Almost all of these studies need better ablation experiments, similar alternatives, better controls and baselines.

hello_tyler• 7 years ago

20 person study of people who already practice meditation is pretty much worthless.

lukaa2• 7 years ago

First of all I have to say that i despise calling something scientific work that is clearly way more subjective than mesaurable like science. For example question: does this engine spend less fuel than one before is clear way to show was that invention good or not, do you have better wellbeing after some treatment is completely open for placebo effect and can't be in same category. IMO meditation 'science' if it ever wants to be true science should concentrate on mesaurable mental qualities like IQ and memory. So true science question should be: how large is your IQ score before and after meditation retreat or how much you can remember things in 2 min before and after. Everything other is not science and is higly debatable. Honestly I'm quite suprised that engineers spend so much time on so unproved technique to increase quality of their work and life.

teyc• 7 years ago

You are misinformed. The tools for measuring brain changes are getting better and more precise. We now have tools to measure brain activity, gray matter thickness, stress levels, and these reports are as good as measuring NO2 from engine exhaust. There's so much literature around this, it just knocks your karma if you spout ignorance just because you choose not to look.

lukaa2• 7 years ago

”There is a common misperception in public and government domains that compelling clinical evidence exists for the broad and strong efficacy of mindfulness as a therapeutic intervention,” a group of 15 scholars wrote in a recent article entitled Mind the Hype. The reality is that mindfulness-based therapies have shown “a mixture of only moderate, low or no efficacy, depending on the disorder being treated,” the scholars wrote, citing a 2014 meta-analysis commissioned by the US Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality. Source:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5758421/#!po=0....

ChuckNorris892• 7 years ago

Yeah, that study is pretty worthless but anecdotally, I have been to a similar retreat and even though it was only 10 days, it was totally worth it.

10 days of not talking to anyone, meditating everyday in a group, sleeping with a schedule, eating clean, being away from acquaintances, away from smartphones, social media or electronic distractions, away from shopping and ads, away from the soulless job and the crushing commute meant I could no longer ignore or drown out those thoughts in my head keeping me up at night and I had to consume them so they no longer haunt me.

The effects were long lasting, better than what I got from meditating at home with the aid of apps, but only if you commit to living a healthy lifestyle after. If you go back to eating junk and swiping on Instagram at 2 A.M, it's on you.

Would recommend you give it a try of you can.

mettamage3• 7 years ago

What does that mean? I have been to a retreat or two, as my name implies, but I wouldn’t know what it means to consume one’s thoughts during a retreat.

cube2222• 7 years ago

It means accepting and letting go of stressful thoughts, insecurities which have been chronically keeping you up at night or worrying you unnecessarily.

i_cant_speel2• 7 years ago

My girlfriend went on a 10 day retreat earlier this year. She said that for much of the time there is literally nothing to do other than think. You are forced to acknowledge and confront the thoughts you have as a result of past experiences, which are easy to ignore and let fester when you have the distractions of daily life to keep your brain preoccupied.

During the retreat, there is regularly coaching on how to acknowledge these thoughts and feelings and let them go. So the idea behind these retreats is to give you the tools to deal with these thoughts and feelings and then put you in a situation where you are almost forced to confront them. That's what the parent commenter was referring to by "consuming".

My girlfriend had a fantastic experience and said that she is in a much better mental state than she was before.

Disclaimer: These are my thoughts as I understand it from secondhand experience. Definitely look more into yourself if it's something you want to learn more about.

noobhacker• 7 years ago

Could you suggest a low cost option for meditation retreat? I'd really like to do one, but the idea of paying $1000 for what's supposed to be a no-frill, minimalist, anti-materialistic experience still trips me up. (As a reference, I rarely spend more than $500 for any kind of leisure trip.)

I understand that I'm being naive here, that "the Dharma is free but the light is not." Perhaps if cheap retreat is not an option, you can also reframe my thinking about the cost.

ChuckNorris892• 7 years ago

I'm sorry, but in my area in Europe, these retreats are for free. Well, donation based more exactly. At the end of the retreat you can donate as much as you feel like if it helped you.

dhruvkar• 7 years ago

I haven't done one, but a close friend has done Vipassana [1] a few times, which are free [2] in the USA. They run on donations and are 10 days of silence and meditation.

1. https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/courses/search

2. https://www.dhamma.org/en/about/qanda

edit -- added another link

rukuu001• 7 years ago

That sounds like it was a Vipassana retreat, and they’re nearly always free (or donation based). They’ll encourage you to return to volunteer at a future retreat, but that’s about it for obligations.

chaos_emergent• 7 years ago

All Vipassana courses are taught across the world for free, not just in the specific locales mentioned here. Putting a price on a priceless practice cheapens it, so they only allow old students of Vipassana to donate voluntarily.

q845712• 7 years ago

as others have said there's many donation based retreats available.

I can also offer a rough line-item of where money goes, on retreat that have a sticker price:

1.) Cost. Many communities don't have their own retreat facilities and are thus basically booking room and board at a venue. Every venue has different amenities, costs, and profit models, but even a retreat site that operates at low margins as a gift, where retreatants share rooms and do substantial amounts of their own cooking and cleaning, even that is easily going to top $50 per person per day, while having a basically "resort-ish" experience where the group has single rooms and very little chores can approach $200 per day (in California).

2.) Back into the community who volunteered to organize it. There's probably 100-200+ labor hours behind every retreat, which is done in part so the teachings and practice can flourish, but is also motivated by the need to keep paying rent and other expenses on the community's primary practice and meeting space.

3.) To subsidize others. I think the teacher or leader of almost anything typically pays a reduced rate or nothing in recognition for their skill and leadership. Additionally it's not uncommon for part of the "profit" from retreats to be rolled into a scholarship funds for those whose ability to contribute is less than the bottom line costs, when the amount from donations doesn't match the need.

Also, Buddhism, and even more so mindfulness isn't necessarily concerned with conforming to our ideas of minimalist or anti-materialistic. While it's true that renunciation is often presented as part of the Buddhist path, retreats meet people where they are in their readiness to leave their comforts behind. A 5 - 14 day retreat might offer such comforts as the presence of a swimming pool or lounge furniture during break times so that people don't feel like they've joined monastic boot camp. There's many different things that get called "meditation retreat" and generally they're each well suited for different people at different times.

mcshicks• 7 years ago

I'm a Zen student and we offer 1 week retreats for around $50 a day for non members. However we have very limited space, we prioritize members or past participants so we are not in general able to offer it to people we don't know. But rather than looking for a retreat, I would suggest looking for a local meditation center that offers retreats at a reasonable rate, and then go check out there weekly sitting. Also they way we can do that rate is we do our own cooking, cleaning, organizing etc. We do offer limited housing, but its generally like a sleeping mat in the meditation hall. Actually to be honest I think your better off not not even worrying about the the retreat, and just find a group to meditate with at first. I don't think it will be to hard to find a reasonably priced retreat if you are sitting with a meditation group. Probably somebody will be able to recommend somewhere they have actually gone themselves.

raziel2701• 7 years ago

What are the logistics of the retreat in terms of how/where/what do you eat? Where/how do you sleep? Is it ok to stop meditating to go to the restroom?

volkl48• 7 years ago

Your post reads to me a lot like just getting away from everything in a setting where you couldn't be tempted otherwise was what you found beneficial.

Which is great, but makes me wonder if the meditation aspect isn't what's central to the experience.

------------

I do a good amount of solo backpacking (or with a long-term friend who can appreciate hours of silence as much as I can, instead of filling the time with constant conversation), and I feel I could write the same post as you from that experience, but it doesn't really involve anything I would label "meditation".

rv-de• 7 years ago

There's also "walking meditation" and just walking without calling it "meditation", as well. Think about what meditation is at it's core and you'll find it everywhere as a possibility.

greggman22• 7 years ago

10 days of not talking to anyone

This sounds like the opposite of all happiness research which seems to suggest that interacting face to face with people is the most strongly correltated activity to happiness.

Thoughts?

thrower123• 7 years ago

10 days of not interacting with anybody sounds perfectly blissful. I'd probably opt for doing it some place with a white sand beach, a buffet, a full bar, and a well-loaded kindle though...

rblion• 7 years ago

I plan on going to one in 2020, trying to make the arrangements as we speak.

rasengan0• 7 years ago

Studies like these are great for the popsci filter bubble, not so great for establishing credibility.

I'm biased and believe in contemplation as an overall life sustaining practice.

Lovely checklist: - controlled, non-randomized - small sample size - validation by industry standard made up surveys and scales named with stupid acronyms - super terrific vague conclusion: "A 1-month Vipassana meditation retreat seems to yield improvements in mindfulness, well-being, and personality, even in experienced meditators."

Imagine all the money and effort to get this published.

Earth to researchers: eating avocado toast in 108 seconds seems to yield improvements in mindfulness, well-being, and personality.

programmertote2• 7 years ago

Just a personal anecdote. I was born in a family of Theravada Buddhist parents. My late dad was an avid meditator. He'd go on week-long retreats to meditate at least a couple of times a year, and my mom also does similar. I tried meditating a little and gave up because I personally found that I am not able to stick to a routine (like meditate every day for 15 minutes). As I grow old, I became an atheist and read a lot of philosophy. I picked up stoicism and parts and pieces of everything I liked from reading. I use them to be self-aware and always try to see things as if they are impermanent. That really helps me calm down in stressful situations and be content with my life in a lot of ways. I do not meditate because I don't have the discipline, but I feel like I found my inner peace and live a pretty content, minimalist life.

I have a friend from home country who works in wall streets. She went to Princeton and is pretty high up there in management echelon. She has a fierce and competitive personality. She would always encourage me to go on meditation retreats in MA (Massachusetts), and she goes there pretty often. She also goes to a meditation group who meet near Times Square every few weeks. But you know what, I found her life to be miserable. She has had at least two mental breakdowns that I know of. She is always inquisitive of what I am doing, what job I have, how much I make at the moment whenever I see her. In my mind, I wanted to tell her, "Sister (a way of addressing someone older with respect in my culture), you're always stressed out and need meditation therapy because you are always worried about what/how others are doing. Meditation wouldn't help you much if you keep doing this." But of course, I don't want to spoil our friendship, so I never told her that.

I think I see a lot of meditation posts in HN because people here are chasing a lot of things at the same time. In other words, people here tend to be over-achievers and ambitious. I am not one, and I'm okay without meditation. I always try to take middle-path (that is the core of Buddhist teaching from my understanding) if I can; limit my wants and only try to fill my essential needs; try to always judge myself as a human (with needs/wants) first and then from a third person's point of view (to be self-aware so that I can control myself when I'm too upset/having a bad day); and in general, I just try to reduce as much "ah-ku-tho" (bad karma including greed, envy, anxiety, anger, etc.) as I can from my daily life.

Hope this lengthy post is interesting to some.

keyle• 7 years ago

But of course, I don't want to spoil our friendship, so I never told her that.

Maybe she needs to hear it. The key is to get her to ask herself questions, rather than telling. It's best done by suggestions and questions that prompts thoughts.

If you tell a hamster there is no point running so hard in the wheel, it will probably run harder.

programmertote2• 7 years ago

You know, I might one day end up sharing her my perspective. I just need to phrase it in a nice, non-condescending way. Thank you for the encouragement.

Psychological Effects of a 1-Month Meditation Retreat

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