Plastic Free July

https://paulrhayes.com/plastic-free-july/

by sexy_seedbox • 7 years ago

73 63 7 years ago

chiph2• 7 years ago

That's really difficult. As you can't even buy canned goods, as the can has a plastic liner sprayed on it to keep the steel or aluminum from corroding from acidic foods like tomatoes.

mjlangiii• 7 years ago

It is, agreed. For tomatoes, buy fresh ones as you need them.

Symbiote2• 7 years ago

I live in Denmark, and here I think it would be worth calculating the different CO₂ and other pollution costs in transporting chilled, fresh tomatoes from e.g. Italy, vs. cooking and packing them in Italy and transporting that. Keeping something refrigerated isn't cheap.

The wasted coated paper carton would be incinerated here, and used for electricity and heat.

benj1113• 7 years ago

Is that realistically a concern?

Recycling cans is economically viable, so they aren't just going to be getting dumped, and the plastic isnt likely to escape in the mean time.

II2II• 7 years ago

Experiments like this are better at pointing out things that we take for granted. Sometimes the things that we take for granted have negative consequences and no real benefit, such as the author's boxes with plastic windows. Other times there may be negative consequences, but some benefits. Your example of the plastic protective layer fits into that category.

With respect to long term impact, we are better off taking other approaches. Reusable glass may sound great, until one realizes that they end up with mountains of glass in the place of mountains of plastic. While there are places that will take back glass jars for reuse, a lot of glass simply ends up being recycled. The actual issue is packaging.

To see how much of an issue this is, start saving the realistically reusable packaging instead of recycling it: glass jars, plastic tubs, cardboard boxes, etc.. For most people, the amount that they collect is in extreme excess of what they can reuse.

Getting back to the original point: don't fret over that plastic sprayed liner, plastic tub, or plastic bag. In a lot of cases, it serves a legitimate purpose. It is far better to think about what it says about us. The author illustrates that in the article. He discusses the impact of convenience meals in his life. He noticed that he was ordering a lot online rather than supporting local producers and vendors. The lessons that Hayes takes away from his experiment may be different what other people learn, yet they are lessons all the same.

chiph2• 7 years ago

Glass is pretty recyclable. The issue is that it takes a lot of energy to remelt it, and fuel to transport it because its so heavy. Not to mention the breakage aspect.

I worked at a supermarket in high school and this was back when the glass 2-liter soda bottle was introduced (during the US's short-lived metric system push). And shortly afterwards, the 3-liter bottle was added. Since they were glass, when one fell off the shelf it was a huge mess (the 3-liters were significantly more delicate). Several times a week, we'd hear a smash, followed by "Wet clean-up on aisle 5"

We had a wire cage at the front of the store where you could return the bottles and get your deposit back. None of the employees liked dealing with it, as customers never rinsed their empties, so it attracted insects. Branding also entered into it, as the Pepsi deliveryman would only take Pepsi empties, and the Coca-Cola company only wanted theirs. So their route was delayed as they fished around for their bottles in the cage.

I think reducing the amount of plastic we use is an excellent goal. And it's possible today that people are as-or-more accepting of the extra work involved than they were in the 1970's. But I doubt that it'll gain widespread acceptance because plastic solves so many problems. So an incentive may be necessary, like deposits on plastic bottles & containers, to encourage people to return them (and they don't end up as litter)

runj__• 7 years ago

While I appreciate the effort I find that plastic is an excellent way of reducing food waste which environmentally should have a larger impact than the packaging itself [1]. Glass bottles vs. plastic ones also seems like a fairly straight-forward issue, the energy required for transport and the fact that they sometimes break doesn't seem to be worth the perceived re-usability. Either way, an experiment like this seems to be a good way to find just how dependent we are on plastic/packaging rather than trying to be kind to the environment on a macro scale.

[1] https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...

benj1113• 7 years ago

You do have a good point. Plastic wrapped cucumbers seems to be the poster child that gets rolled out because it increases the shelf life so much, I envisage use always using at least some plastic, it's advantages aren't going to disappear.

But we can do better, I've seen cucumbers with a 2nd outer plastic bag, you don't need that. All the packaging with mixed materials at the moment can't really be recycled, theres a huge amount of plastic packaged, and plastic made things, that don't need to be.

Its worth pointing out that lots of people are coming at this from different angles. Some people have seen Blue Planet and don't want to pollute the ocean, some people want a sustainable solution, and some people want a low/no co2 solution. Neither of these perfectly aligns. You're looking at it from a co2/energy point of view, there are others who see plastic as unsustainable because it can't be infinitely recycled, so the glass in still better.

paulcarroty• 7 years ago

Cool quest. The number one question is: how to handle water without plastic. Suggested glass bottles for milk aren't effective here.

Xylakant• 7 years ago

Tap water is superior to bottled water in many places and doesn’t need carrying either. Have a reusable (metal) bottle to take along. If you live in a place that can’t make tap water safe to drink, I’m sorry for you. You’ll probably have to stick to plastic. (There’s also bottled water in reusable glass bottles around here, but that’s really heavy)

gambiting• 7 years ago

And in many places, tap water is vastly inferior or straight up unsafe to drink over bottled water. When I was growing up the only way to safely drink tap water was to boil it first, which is a major pain in the ass if you just want to drink something.

ioquatix• 7 years ago

In Japan, in Chiba, for 500 yen, you can buy a 4 litre plastic bottle which you can reuse over and over again for drinking water from the local super market. Maybe you have a similar system available if you check.

fiblye• 7 years ago

No reason not to just drink tap water. It's one of the few places in Asia where it's completely safe.

danw19794• 7 years ago

This sounds like a great idea - go without something for a while and you'll appreciate it and notice it more when you go back to using (hopefully less of) it.

It sounds like a significant challenge to do this outside of an urban environment that is well served with "alternative" retailers though.

A friend nearby, leading a similar suburban-supermarket lifestyle to me, tried a slightly different thing for a few months - all single use plastic was disposed of in a very visible location (a clear plastic (doh) sack in the kitchen) as a reminder of how much you've used. Apparently it was very shocking.

Other motivational ideas:

- any plastic you use goes to landfill. In your back yard.

- Collect all your plastic waste. Take the 10% that would on average (globally) end up in the ocean. Chop it up and add it to your meals. See if you like it as much as the seabirds and turtles do.

- Admit that any plastic you send to recycling is just going to get "recycled" into energy anyway. Incinerate it at home instead.

heavenlyblue• 7 years ago

Is that a joke?

- 10% of the plastic I dispose of doesn’t end up in the ocean because I live in a civilised country that disposes of it in the places made for it’s disposal.

- Plastic is incinerated in special chambers that make sure everything burns to a simple combination of CO2+H2O, while your home probably doesn’t have the necessary equipment to do so.

danw19794• 7 years ago

Yeah. I wasn't being serious.

vegannet• 7 years ago

The majority of plastic waste in “civilised” countries is shipped elsewhere: out of sight out of mind. There’s a strong likelihood that your plastic waste is ending up somewhere you do not expect it to end up.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-worlds-recycling-is-in-chaos...

danw19794• 7 years ago

... also I just read this (on the front page now !) -

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2019/08/smart-plas...

- Nonetheless, the risk of harmful substances reaching the air may not be completely eliminated by engineers. In some countries, newer incinerators would apply air pollution control technologies, including fabric filters, electrostatic precipitators and scrubbers, the CIEL authors argue. However, these filters may not prevent all hazardous emissions, such as ultra-fine particles - unregulated and particularly harmful to health - from escaping into the air.

This was my uninformed understanding of incineration - that there's at least some toxic leftovers no matter how hot you burn it.

Is there really a way to burn it down to just CO2 and water ?

benj1113• 7 years ago

"- any plastic you use goes to landfill. In your back yard"

Even if it does end up in landfill, id be more confident of the rubbish actually staying in a landfill, than a shallow pit in the garden. What happens if a mouse finds and eats it? Its in the food chain. What happens if $burrowing_mammal digs it up?

Plus you're removing it from official figures. Some politician can look at the figures and declare "problem solved" when in fact it dispersed all over the country, and virtually impossible to fix.

dawnerd• 7 years ago

Incinerate it at home instead.

Okay, you have to be joking now, right?

Edit: so you all think it’s better to incinerate plastic at home instead of the industrial plants that have methods to reduce pollution? Okay...

2T1Qka0rEiPr• 7 years ago

Interesting read, but I still think the sentence in the article which most resonates with me is:

Buying without plastic is a privilege. It’s the pricier goods that are plastic free.

Perhaps people still need to lead the way by first buying the more expensive, plastic free alternatives, before we see a real change, but to me this is still the biggest kicker. The article also says, "frozen food doesn’t depend on plastic to keep it fresh or to protect it from spoils". Is that true? What about vegetables (peas, sweetcorn etc.) I'm probably being thick, but what else do they come bagged in?

danw19794• 7 years ago

I've never seen frozen vegetables in anything other than plastic bags. I read it that the OP was buying ready meals and other cardboard-packaged stuff only in the frozen aisle.

dEnigma• 7 years ago

Frozen vegetables here in Austria more often than not are available in little cardboard boxes. But a lot of them, I think mostly the larger sizes, are also sold in plastic bags.

tonyedgecombe• 7 years ago

There are a couple of shops near us that sell loose frozen fruit and veg which you could put in your own containers. It is much more expensive though, there is nothing like this at Aldi.

spodek5• 7 years ago

One of the greatest misunderstandings of acting to clean our air, land, and water is that it's a burden or chore. In my experience, it's the opposite. I recommend taking on similar challenges. I bet you'll enjoy them and incorporate them into your life as improvements.

I challenged myself to buy no packaged food for a week. I made it 2.5 weeks at zero and the experience improved my life so much I decided to keep going using as little packaging as I comfortably could. As my cooking skills improved I bought more fresh fruits and vegetables and, from bulk bins grains, dried beans, nuts, and dried fruit. I shopped increasingly at farmers markets. I came to see Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and other markets as wastelands with more garbage than food in them.

I was throwing my trash out once every other week, then once a month. Now the last time I emptied my garbage was September 2018 and the time before that July 2017. Here's a video showing my garbage the first time I went one year without filling a load: http://joshuaspodek.com/year-emptied-garbage.

My food tastes better, costs less, is more convenient, and connects me with my community more, as more people come over and I've visited the farm where most of my vegetables come from.

If you also believe that we need institutional changes from corporations, government, etc, the fastest, most effective way is to start with personal behavior, building on it, and leading others.

kthejoker23• 7 years ago

Serious question: how does it "cost less"? As OP notes, buying without plastic is a privilege due to the luxury goods pricing model attached to eco-friendly products.

esotericn6• 7 years ago

This is not the case in the UK except in very specific promotional cases.

Fruit and veg without plastic is available at your local supermarket.

It can be a bit annoying to weigh it - you can use reusable bags for that - an easy one would be that you can get at least 10 uses out of the clear plastic bags you take the stuff home in for example.

Processed stuff is harder sure. I tend to not really eat that stuff, staples are cheaper anyway.

I agree that most people don't do this - well over half of the supermarket is full of items I'd never even consider buying - but that doesn't change the fact they could.

I actually think there's a hump in the middle of the distribution.

Essential basic foods are cheap and generally come loose (or at least you'll get 15kg of rice in one big bag).

There are some exceptions like frozen vegetables.

Processed middle of budget stuff like pre made sauces, ready meals, pre packaged small cuts of meat etc - yeah that's full of packaging.

Then you have the signalling products whereby basically you're paying silly money for ready meals in cardboard boxes or whatever.

friendly_chap3• 7 years ago

I think you miss the point entirely. Prepackaged foods are way more expensive (where I live at least).

You can go to a butcher they wrap up the meat in hair thin plastic bag instead of the bulky one in supermarkets.

If you go to a grocer/farmers market you buy almost all things lose. Packaging is an entirely different industry with people adding their own (usually substantial) margins.

In Lidl nowadays they sell loose nuts etc, also cheaper then prepackaged ones.

You dont have to buy cashew in organic bamboo leaf packaging hand crafted by Cambodian virgins, just bring your reusable bag.

spodek5• 7 years ago

OP is wrong. I thought that way too before I started.

If you blindly shift to whatever the store is promoting, you'll pay more.

I joined CSAs (if you're around NYC, I recommend mine http://joshuaspodek.com/where-to-buy-the-best-food-around-ne...). Dried beans and lentils are a couple dollars a pound, pre-soaked and pre-cooked.

I learned to buy in season, which means the ripest things are in greatest quantity at low prices, plus they vary. I'm swimming in tomatoes now, for example, and they taste incredible. A couple months ago it was lettuce.

I also get to know the vendors at the farmers market, and they give me a lot of free produce as a regular.

Buying with plastic is a privilege -- externalizing the costs of cleaning your pollution to poorer communities and future generations.

I hope that we'll end subsidies that force me to pay for meat, other standard American diet ingredients I don't eat, and fossil fuels transporting foods across the country and around the world which would make prices reflect their costs.

esotericn6• 7 years ago

One of the greatest misunderstandings of acting to clean our air, land, and water is that it's a burden or chore.

I agree.

I think it's predominantly a matter of framing.

Imagine a person is sat in a car and they've just eaten a chocolate bar. The easiest thing for them to do at that moment is to throw the wrapper out of the window.

But most don't do that, they put it in a bag or whatever, collect it, and dispose of it properly.

There are tons of examples like this.

It's a 'burden or chore' to go to the toilet rather than just taking a shit at the side of the road. It's a 'burden or chore' to brush your teeth in the morning.

Except it's not - why? Framing.

If it's not on the spectrum of socially acceptable things to something, we won't do it.

Consider the opposite end of the spectrum - there are people who deliberately go out of their way to spend money and time for stuff like 'coal rolling'.

Do you want to pollute or not? You can start taking actions now, just think a bit more. No-one is perfect.

jfim• 7 years ago

Out of curiosity, what solution did you find for random disposable objects that have no obvious non disposable equivalent?

I already reduce my trash footprint, but for things like toothbrushes and floss, I haven't found a good alternative.

esotericn6• 7 years ago

I think very small objects like that are probably reasonable.

Waste could be slightly reduced in the toothbrush case with reusable heads, but a plastic handle once every few months isn't a huge deal.

I wish that, again, the bloody packaging wasn't so silly though. Just throw them all together in a box at the supermarket. We can sterilise it with boiling water at home if we care.

Noos5• 7 years ago

OP, your shift changes. You no longer work 9-6. You now work 4-12. How easy is it?

You now no longer live in a metropolis. You live in a town of maybe 15,000 people. The nearest Trader Joes is an hour drive away. Again, how easy it is?

You now are paid $15 an hour instead of what you are making. Is it sill not a burden?

I think people here need to really keep in mind how much life situations differ in the USA before they consider something to be a burden or not. A lot of people here at HN live like college students; very close to their work/study, no family, no children, and with generally small footprints in a closely clustered urban area that caters to them. Even the focus on metal work is the same.

It really changes if you aren't this type of person an yes it's a burden. You simply don't have the disposable time if you have kids for one, unless your wife is stay at home.

esotericn6• 7 years ago

Heh. If your life is a burden, then everything in it is one, indeed.

About the only example there you've given that sounds challenging is having "no free time with children". Everything else?

What does working 4-12 have to do with going to a farmer's market?

spodek5• 7 years ago

Since this response comes up every time, I'm curious if you're just poking and trying to come up with counterexamples. What I'm talking about helps such situations, not hurts, and is more accessible, not less.

I think people here need to really keep in mind how much life situations differ in the USA before they consider something to be a burden or not.

Might you have missed that such situations and their variety is what this addresses and helps?

princekolt• 7 years ago

I think people here need to really keep in mind how much life situations differ in the USA

Ah yes, let me not write about, or even do anything else, ever, in my life, because some folk in the US of A are too "burdened".

frosted-flakes• 7 years ago

This didn’t mean we could buy ice cream. And on the hottest July day on record.

In Ontario, Chapmans ice cream (and other brands too, probably) is available in cardboard boxes which unfold, leaving you with a perfect rectangular block of ice cream sitting on a flat piece of cardboard.

Otherwise, ice cream generally comes in rectangular-oval tubs made of cardboard. The only plastic is in the rim of the lid.

You can also get no name "ice cream" in 4 litre plastic buckets, but that generally has so little cream it's technically "frozen dessert".

beatgammit• 7 years ago

Yeah, I don't live in the UK, but I don't think I've purchased ice cream with plastic in years.

The hardest part for me would be milk. I buy milk by the gallon (usually a gallon per week), and my kids love to drink it. I make yogurt and occasionally make cheese, so we would probably not suffer too much if we can get milk relatively cheaply. Milk does come in cardboard containers, but I'm pretty sure they're lined with plastic, not wax, and I honestly don't know where to get milk in glass containers.

Meat would also be hard since it always comes shrink wrapped in plastic and I don't know how to get it otherwise. We have a butcher nearby that would probably work with us, so it's solvable.

Instead of trying to eliminate plastic, maybe I'll try this with eliminating all waste. Food scraps will go to the compost and packaging will need to be recyclable. It would be interesting to see what I can cut out that isn't recyclable.

techer• 7 years ago

After a few decades I've seen the return of a milkman on my block. Glass bottles that are picked up at the time of delivery. Not sure about the overall environmental impact though as the milk is driven to your door. In the 80s I recall them being delivered in electric vans. Actually called a milk float.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float

cco• 7 years ago

Those cardboard tubs will have a plastic liner and thus be un-recyclable and non-compostable. Nearly no consumer cardboard containers for non-dry food are pure cardboard, they all have liners to protect the cardboard. Very few will have a wax lining but that is the legacy method and more expensive than plastic so they are few and far between.

The litmus test is does the packaging begin to break down after 10 or so minutes holding wet food, if yes then the packaging is likely just paper, i.e. cardboard, if it can sit in a fridge for 48 hours without issue it has plastic.

ericdykstra• 7 years ago

Plastics are bad news for your own health, the environment, and ecology generally. I've been cutting out my personal exposure to estrogenic items (a good list here, check the guy's book if you're interested in the gritty details: https://www.ajconsultingcompany.com/estrogenics.html), and it has, as a result, lead to less plastic use overall.

Depending on where you live, it can be pretty hard to find non-plastic alternatives for some products; for example: unless you have a butcher that will give you meat served in butcher paper, your meat is probably stored in plastic. However, many things are easy to eliminate, such as low quality cooking oils stored in plastic. It's easy to find olive, avocado, coconut, mct, and other cooking oils in glass containers and to use those (and butter) instead of canola, soy, or vegetable oils.

Do what's reasonable personally for your and your family's health, and advocate for bans and restrictions on environmental plastics in your countries, as that's really the only long-term solution.

DenisM• 7 years ago

So what’s wrong with plastics?

If not recycled they go to landfill and stay there, buried. No greenhouse gas emissions, no ocean pollution.

If one wanted put efforts into ecology one would be more productive reconsidering their commute options - each commute trip in a car is a gallon of gas that goes straight to CO2.

exabrial• 7 years ago

Ask your butcher to wrap in butcher paper or waxed paper, which can be recycled, composted, or at worst it will break down much quicker than plastic. You could also bring Tupperware with you and have them tare it out. No reason this should be more expensive than pre-packaged meat.

Plastic Free July

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