Research Chef: You’re Not Allergic to MSG and More Culinary Secrets

http://www.chow.com/food-news/69604/you-re-not-allergic-to-msg-and-7-more-secrets-from-a-research-chef/

by cwan • 16 years ago

92 85 16 years ago

chow.com

jrockway4• 16 years ago

I am not sure I agree with this. I routinely get frozen food from the grocery store that's $7.

icey• 16 years ago

"Cost" (in the grocery world) usually refers to the wholesale cost to the store.

jrockway4• 16 years ago

But the article says "$2-$3" as what people want to pay, and that's what stuff costs at the store.

pkulak• 16 years ago

Maybe a lasagna that feeds half a dozen people. That's all I've ever seen in that price range. What single-entre item costs $7?

jrockway4• 16 years ago

Amy's organic stuff.

kscaldef2• 16 years ago

Frozen pizzas with pictures of famous chefs on them.

gamache2• 16 years ago

Big deal, so it's not a real allergy. When I eat food containing a lot of added MSG, my brain feels like it's on fire. Maybe it's not anaphylaxis but it's still annoying.

Avshalom3• 16 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate#Health_con...

On one hand most of the linked studies were likely paid for by food companies. On the other hand, considering the wide variety of sources that MSG averse people don't react to, claims that it's psychosomatic seem fairly reasonable.

sudont• 16 years ago

This is one double-blind test that would be fairly easy to do with friends.

Try it at home, kids?

tptacek5• 16 years ago

What are the foods you eat that you perceive as containing a lot of added MSG? Maybe there's something else they have in common. Insulin responses can easily and predictably give you a headache.

gamache2• 16 years ago

Two foods have reliably caused symptoms that I connect with MSG: the fried rice from one particular place near where I went to school, and Doritos. I can eat equivalent amounts of other fried rice or corn chips without symptoms.

brunoc• 16 years ago

I think I get a similar thing. A weird overwhelming sensation then a rush of fire in the neck and then brain on fire. Always at a chinese restaurant, with specific dishes.

pierrefar4• 16 years ago

Carrageenan is on a lot of labels, and I'm often asked, 'What is that chemical?' It's not a chemical. It's seaweed!

Actually, it is very much a chemical. All food is chemicals. It's just perverted advertising that convinced the masses that chemical = "something bad".

For more sad laughter on this topic, the Royal Society of Chemistry's blog has a category for "chemical free" living:

http://prospect.rsc.org/blogs/rsc/tag/100-chemical-free/

They even announced a £1 million bounty for anyone who can find a chemical-free cosmetic:

http://www.rsc.org/AboutUs/News/PressReleases/2010/CTPA100Ch...

mast2• 16 years ago

Absolutely. All food is made up of component chemicals. Still, I think people need to be more aware of the food they are eating.

Have you ever had a look at the ingredients in non-dairy creamer: http://foodconstrued.com/2011/01/cream-in-my-coffee/

pierrefar4• 16 years ago

I agree completely that we need to be aware of what we eat. My concern is that we're using really bad terminology to scare people.

A much better word would be "artificial" or "synthetic" additive IMHO.

jseifer• 16 years ago

Carrageenan also causes all sorts of cancer in rats - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi...

pierrefar4• 16 years ago

Interesting. I haven't heard about that. Wikipedia has a nice simple overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrageenan#Health_concerns

ced4• 16 years ago

Actually, it is very much a chemical. All food is chemicals.

That's literally true, but not the intended meaning. Chemical has become a synonym for "man-made". It's a useful distinction. If you were forced to choose between eating 100g of a random "chemical" molecule, or 100g of a random "natural" molecule, you would be much better off with the latter.

True, scientific studies can show that chemical X is harmless, but.... only if the study was done over a very long time. Only if it was done properly. Only if the scientists didn't receive their financing from BigCo.

It's perfectly reasonable to be wary of "chemicals", heuristically.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not one of these people living in mistrust of chemicals. But I understand where they're coming from, especially if they have a poor grasp of science. A reasonable move for Kasparov (e.g.: sacrificing his queen for tactical advantage) might be a terrible move for me in the same situation.

anamax• 16 years ago

> If you were forced to choose between eating 100g of a random "chemical" [man-made] molecule, or 100g of a naturally occurring molecule, you would be much better off with the latter.

How about some supporting evidence? (I assume that you're excluding man-made molecules which are also found in nature, but if you're not, please explain where you're putting them and why.)

pierrefar4• 16 years ago

I think there are two parts to what you're saying: "chemical" molecules are, as I said elsewhere in this thread, are better described as artificial or synthetic. We agree on that, but I disagree that it's reasonable to be wary of chemicals - it's a triumph of rubbish marketing.

The other part is the assumption that "natural" molcules are inherently better. There is no difference between naturally-occuring vitamin C vs synthetic vitamin C. Also, there are lots of naturally-occuring molcules you don't want in you.

burgerbrain3• 16 years ago

>If you were forced to choose between eating 100g of a random "chemical" molecule, or 100g of a random "natural" molecule, you would be much better off with the latter.

Here, have a delicious puffer fish. I prepared it myself!

Rating chemicals by whether or not they occur naturally is a really piss-poor way of judging danger. There is a practically unlimited number of naturally occurring chemicals what will knock you dead, and there are similarly tones of synthesized chemicals that are completely harmless, or even beneficial. Bringing "synthesized vs. naturally" is always disingenuous, we have had better ways of judging danger since the dark ages.

InclinedPlane• 16 years ago

If you were forced to choose between eating 100g of a random "chemical" molecule, or 100g of a random "natural" molecule, you would be much better off with the latter.

That is a distinctly ignorant and biased statement. Go eat 100g of sand, of seawater, tree bark, crude oil, or algae. Notice how I stacked the deck in that list, as these are just naturally occurring things not merely chemicals. Try eating 100g of caffeine, botulinum toxin, vitamin E, nicotine, DNA, warfarin, morphine, or ricin.

Nature is far from harmless, it's merely familiar so that we are more prone to accept whatever degree of harm it holds as, well, "natural". Man-made novel chemical compounds are not all harmless either, but imagining that there is a firm barrier between "natural" and "man-made" and that one category is far and away safer than the other is superstitious thinking.

jtchang• 16 years ago

Maybe not allergic to small amounts but if I eat a large amount of MSG I get really thirsty and sometimes it triggers a bad headache.

rglullis• 16 years ago

Have a large amount of coke (regular or diet). Hell, have a large amount of sea salt. Same effect!

You being thirsty is just because your cells are dehydrated when there is a large-ish concentration of salt on your blood. The headache you are feeling? Dehydration.

larrik• 16 years ago

My favorite part? The mystery chef actually appears in the comments herself.

Overall, though, the article is rather light on actual content.

tingletech2• 16 years ago

[sigh] glutamate != monosodium glutamate. Those have glutamate but not necessarily MSG...

tptacek5• 16 years ago

So you think maybe that by being paired with sodium in a salt, the glutamic acid that occurs naturally in many of the most popular natural foodstuffs in the world might "set peoples brains on fire" (see above)?

nkurz3• 16 years ago

No, he probably agrees that they are functional analogs and is just making the point that if you are brought in as expert in an article, you should strive for as much accuracy as possible.

While I agree with her general precept that MSG allergies do not exist, and I personally have no more fear of glutamates than of sodium, I'm bothered by the level of inaccuracy in the statement: "Broccoli, mushrooms, tomatoes, inosinate, guanylate, and autolyzed yeast extract? Give up? They are all sources of monosodium glutamate."

Guanylate and inosinate are comparable to glutamate, and often used in conjunction with it, but I don't think it's even colloquially correct to say that they contain it. Am I wrong? In the same vein, it also seems fair to point out that the naturally occurring form is different than the purified salt. Would you say that corn on the cob 'contains' high-fructose corn syrup?

I'd normally just assume she was misquoted, but in the comments she attacks the discussants for "carrying on with this technical mumbo jumbo and further confusing the issue". Maybe she's a good chef, but I sure don't trust her science.

Skroob• 16 years ago

For reference, the link to Whole Foods "Unacceptable Ingredients" list is here: http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/unacceptable-ingred...

tptacek5• 16 years ago

Wow. Which - of - those - things - is - not - like - the - othhhhers?

[edit after downvote: it was the foie gras].

pohl• 16 years ago

The list mentioned in the article was about Trader Joe's.

SwellJoe• 16 years ago

The Whole Foods list was also mentioned in the article.

RoboTeddy2• 16 years ago

The actual troublemaker is free glutamic acid, a molecule with flavor-enhancing properties. It's one of the basic amino acids that make up proteins. No one reacts badly when they eat it if it's linked up to other amino acids, but when it's running around free it causes reactions in some people.

A largish dose of free glutamic acid will trigger a migraine for me (and my dad) consistently. It's anecdotal, but I'm confident that this particular anecdote would hold up in a double-blind test.

Monosodium glutamate (MSG) disassociates into sodium and free glutamic acid in food; that's why it's often added. But any ingredient that contains broken up protein can be an issue; e.g. hydrolyzed soy protein or autolyzed yeast extract. MSG has a bad rep, so often foodmakers will try to slip free glutamic acid in some other way (often while shouting on the package, "NO MSG").

Food that benefits a lot from the flavor enhancer, such as canned soups, will almost always have a lot of it. Lots of stuff has _some_ amount of free glutamic acid (such as broccoli, like the article mentions) but (speaking personally), it's not enough to trigger a reaction.

There aren't many foods our ancestors would've eaten that contained lots of free glutamic acid. We're talking about the same molecule that serves as an excitatory neurotransmitter in your brain. It turns out that if you eat a lot of it, it's possible to get a headache (other people claim other ailments). Not much is known about the specifics of the mechanism, but it's not that implausible.

tptacek5• 16 years ago

So, you can't eat parm or tomato paste then? Both have high levels of free glutamic acid.

nkurz3• 16 years ago

More on glutamates in parmesan and tomatoes (agrees with tptacek): http://blog.khymos.org/2007/07/06/glutamic-acid-in-tomatoes-...

RoboTeddy2• 16 years ago

I avoid parmesan cheese, but I didn't know about tomato paste. Thanks for the heads up.

car• 16 years ago

We're talking about the same molecule that serves as an excitatory neurotransmitter in your brain. It turns out that if you eat a lot of it, it's possible to get a headache (other people claim other ailments). Not much is known about the specifics of the mechanism, but it's not that implausible.

The blood-brain barrier makes this completely implausible.

wnoise• 16 years ago

Does it? The blood-brain barrier lets lots of stuff pass, primarily restricting large molecules and hydrophilic molecules. Some, like glucose for instance, are specifically pulled through. I would expect amino-acid monomers would go right through. Prions, misfolded proteins consisting of many monomers, certainly manage to pass through, or no one would ever get the associated diseases.

varikin2• 16 years ago

Actually, some people are allergic to MSG. My wife is allergic to corn and corn derived foods such as MSG. MSG might also exist in broccoli but not in the MSG powder many people refer to when talking about MSG.

Avshalom3• 16 years ago

MSG isn't derived from corn, and even if the sugar that fed the yeast that made the glutamate came from corn, by the time it's commercially sold MSG it is so chemically pure that it would be irrelevant.

varikin2• 16 years ago

According to Wikipedia, it is made from starch, sugar beets, sugar cane, and molasses.

And starch quite often is corn starch.

As for the chemically pure aspect, I don't know enough to comment. No one really understands what causes allergies and no one can point out what aspect of corn causes it. For example, she also has a milk allergy (not intolerance), but does not have issues with milk that has been cooked, such as creme anglaise for making ice cream. Something with cooking the milk changes it. As for how this is related to corn, who knows. What part of corn caused the allergy? If you don't know, how do you know it was removed in the process of making MSG?

xiaomai2• 16 years ago

I found it interesting that the chef claimed that frozen food could taste better than restaurant food. I recently bought a few frozen dinners to see what they taste like. The more expensive ones definitely taste better than the $0.88 Banquet dinners. Claim Jumper was the best, IMHO. One area where the dinners consistently fail though, is texture. Things that should be crispy (like a deep-fried steak), are soft and mushy. Can you accomplish the wide-variety of textures in frozen-dinner format without additional preparation?

trouble3• 16 years ago

The lack of textural variety is the main thing that puts me off frozen foods as well. Choosing a frozen meal over a restaurant meal is like choosing to eat at an old folks home instead of accepting a friend's home-cooked dinner invite.

Also, people deep fry steak? Mind blown. I didn't know people did that.

lsc• 16 years ago

also called "chicken fried steak" - usually it's 'cube steak" which looks a lot more like ground meat than like actual steak, then it's breaded, deep fried and smothered in gravy. It's a very traditional dish in the south, though it doesn't taste very much at all like what most Americans would call a 'steak'

xiaomai2• 16 years ago

Oops, yeah, meant to say "chicken-fried steak" (also "country-fried steak")

ultrasaurus• 16 years ago

There are different things you can do to affect texture with the wrapping. For instance, some microwave paninis come with a special plastic-foil thing that helps crisp them (they're still inedible because of the sodium content but they are crisp). I imagine it'd be hard to make crispy and a steamed soft mushy food at the same time, which holds them back from using it in full meals.

Also some of the complicated steamed or crispy microwave meals produce so much garbage it's embarrassing to cook them.

aaronbrethorst• 16 years ago

> Chef Wendy, who works for a Canadian firm that develops private-label products for companies like Whole Foods, Safeway, General Mills, and McDonald's, would prefer not to reveal her last name, but that was the last thing she was reticent about.

So, uh, why did she put her real name on her Chow.com account, then? Once I had that, it only took a Google search to find out where she works.

hartror2• 16 years ago

Probably because nothing discussed in the article is actually something her employers would be worried about. The whole secrecy seems to be there to add sexiness and authority to the article. In fact the way she and her personal work and values are presented I would be pretty happy if I was her employer.

richcollins2• 16 years ago

Chef Wendy says it's absolutely possible to make a frozen meal that will knock you out of your chair with greatness. "But that entrée needs to cost $7 to $10. People are willing to spend that much in a restaurant for something mediocre but not for something fabulous from the grocery store."

I would pay that in a second. I cook for myself and it ends up costing around $7 a dinner.

steverb• 16 years ago

Okay, either you are cooking with some seriously high-end ingredients, live in an insanely high cost of living area, or you're doing something wrong.

I highly doubt that a prepackaged frozen meal that costs $10 is going anywhere near as tasty as what you can make at home for $7 a meal.

sigstoat• 16 years ago

plenty of people are simply abysmal at any form of 'cooking' more complicated than a microwave. the list of skills you could learn that would save you a couple bucks here and there is far longer than your arm. we can't expect everyone to have every money-saving skill, or the time to actually put them to use.

(yes, everyone eats food so that seems like an 'obvious' one, but everyone also uses indoor plumbing, electricity, has a roof over their head, etc, and i hear far fewer folks suggesting that we all learn roofing.)

joezydeco• 16 years ago

You only get ingredients cheap when you buy them in bulk. I can totally see a good steak and a veggie costing $7 when you buy them solo.

richcollins2• 16 years ago

You're right. I live in San Francisco and eat high quality, fresh ingredients. I'm guessing that there are enough people like me to support frozen $7 to $10 meals.

yarone• 16 years ago

Who made that microwave burrito you're eating..."It's all in code," says Chef Wendy. If the product has meat, poultry, or eggs in it, by law it must have an establishment number or name somewhere on the label

I wonder if there is an opportunity for a mobile app where you scan a food barcode/code and see where it was made. You could rate the food and see ratings of other foods made by that company / at that facility.

The data is here: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/regulations_&_policies/Meat_Pou...

prawn• 16 years ago

A local jam/sauce maker, Beerenberg, has a Provenance Pathway feature on their site:

http://www.beerenberg.com.au/go/our-products/provenance-path...

Enter the barcode and expiry of the product and it will show you the recipe, when/where it was made, photos of the workers involved in its production, description of the process, the source of each ingredient, packing specs, etc.

Aloisius• 16 years ago

I am actually sensitive to MSG and I still eat the stuff. In large doses that it causes my lips/tongue/throat to numb. It took me years to figure it out since it would only happen after eating at certain restaurants or foods and I could never find anything in common.

It wasn't until I bought a bottle of MSG and started putting it on everything that I managed to reproduce it at home. Of course, I was putting it on things like pizza (I thought it was the greatest substance since salt!).

Most restaurants and snack foods don't put nearly as much on food as necessary to trigger my reaction.

I still think MSG is awesome.

jamesrcole• 16 years ago

Jeffrey Steingarten's excellent "It Must've Been Something I Ate" has a good chapter on MSG and the myths about it

http://www.amazon.com/Mustve-Been-Something-Ate-Everything/d...

bugsy• 16 years ago

The article's author demonstrates poor analytical skills.

Regarding poisons themselves, they all depend on how much you ingest. How much salt do you eat? Three pounds a day? Salt is a poison and if you eat too much you can get sick and die. Almonds contain cyanide. People eat almonds without dying. Does that mean cyanide is a beneficial substance in all quantities?

Regarding allergens there are similar dynamics. Someone allergic to cat dander will be able to walk down a street where cats have been. But they may not be able to sleep well in a bed that is normally occupied by 100 cats. Or consider peanuts. Someone allergic to peanuts will not do well eating a peanut butter sandwich. But most of them can handle being in the presence of peanuts, despite hysterical media reports of people dying after kissing someone who had recently eaten a peanut, all stories of which were discredited.

Glutamate content of some foods (mg per 100g) roquefort cheese 1280 parmesan cheese 1200 soy sauce 1090 walnuts 658 fresh tomato juice 260 grape juice 258 peas 200 mushrooms 180 broccoli 176 tomatoes 140 mushrooms 140 oysters 137 corn 130 potatoes 102 chicken 44 mackerel 36 beef 33 eggs 23 human milk 22

So people are claiming "It is in human breast milk and beef and eggs!" Yes, 22mg to 33mg of glutamates per 100g. Up at the top, parmesan is 1200mg per 100g. How much parmesan do you eat exactly? Is this a cheese that you slice off in giant wedges and gnaw on? Or is it grated and used like a spice in relatively small amounts by weight?

Research Chef: You’re Not Allergic to MSG and More Culinary Secrets

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