World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-17/world-s-top-bicycle-maker-says-era-of-made-in-china-is-over

by adventured • 7 years ago

202 198 7 years ago

nkozyra2• 7 years ago

Amazing to see an anecdote like this trotted out as newsworthy. There are three total data points and two of them are incredibly vague.

Honestly, this feels a bit like propaganda.

nafizh• 7 years ago

The title clearly says 'World's top bicycle maker says'. It's an opinion.

afterburner• 7 years ago

It's not opinion, it's an announcement that they're moving their manufacturing to Taiwan.

"Giant Manufacturing is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory"

"Giant" is the brand.

microcolonel5• 7 years ago

Yeah, not sure about how they're measuring. By market cap, Shimano is about four and a half times larger. P/E is very close between the two; Giant's PY return is about 77 times better than Shimano's.

nkozyra2• 7 years ago

It's an opinion.

Opinion articles are - by convention - designated as such. This allows journalistic institutions to distance themselves from things that are insufficiently sourced or are overtly one-sided.

This doesn't fall under that umbrella. It's presented as a piece of economic foreshadowing that Trump's threats are impacting the viability of China as a global manufacturing hub. Which, ok, prove it! Don't give us one company's stated stance, show the numbers. Give us more sources.

This is not good journalism.

OJFord• 7 years ago

It doesn't matter if you're right or not, if such a company believes (or even just says) it, it's newsworthy.

hn_throwaway_99• 7 years ago

It's just a click bait title, especially since the last sentence in the article is "If America “decides to remove the 25% tariff, we will move the production back to China right away,” Tu said."

Doesn't sound like the era of Made in China is over if they're itching to get back.

datatrue• 7 years ago

Made in China is over, that ship has sailed.

- US recently declared China to be a dangerous competitor,

- both parties are full-force anti-CCP. except maybe a few candidates like Joe Biden

- Taiwan view China as dangerous as well

- Way cheaper labors exists in SE asia

dang• 7 years ago

Ok, we changed to the subtitle above.

55555• 7 years ago

It's a company using politics to get free press. Nothing new here.

tungwaiyip• 7 years ago

The article is also missing an important context, Giant is a Taiwanese company. A lot of the world's high end bicycle are built by them in Taiwan.

avocado4• 7 years ago

Perhaps if manufacturers will move out of PRC into nearby countries it won't have a large effect on prices for consumers and businesses in the US, but at the same time will force China to make structural changes in adherence with the rules of global trade and human rights. Too bad Trump has alienated traditional US allies - if major economies teamed up in this effort it would have been a much easier goal.

jimmaswell• 7 years ago

I don't think allies are going to be permanently "alienated" by one president's remarks.

threeseed• 7 years ago

"Once bitten, twice shy" as the saying goes.

For example, the EU has acknowledged that their unflappable trust in the US alliance can no longer be depended on. And they are taking steps to move towards a more independent posture in particular on defence.

tensor• 7 years ago

It will be if that president becomes your monarch, which is looking increasingly likely.

microcolonel5• 7 years ago

The "traditional US allies" have been the least help in this. The U.S. government hasn't done enough to support Taiwan in my opinion, but U.S. relations with India, Viet nam, Korea, etc. are exceptionally good. Among them surely is a replacement for some of the scale and industrial power the PRC is unwilling to provide on reasonable terms.

BuckRogers2• 7 years ago

The USA can't provide that scale and industrial power? Seems like the elephant in the room.

drogon50• 7 years ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-48650505

jopsen• 7 years ago

This could just be a neat spin on a move towards automation :)

jakobegger• 7 years ago

Are there any robots yet that can weld bicycle frames? I thought that was still a job for humans...

lostapathy• 7 years ago

Robots weld all kinds of complicated things - cars for example. Why not bikes?

razorunreal• 7 years ago

This is actually weird to me. It seemed like it should be possible to stamp out bicycle frames like a car, so I researched it. Such a bike does exist, but is extremely expensive, which seems to defeat the purpose. Is it really not possible to streamline the manufacturing beyond welded tubes?

analog314• 7 years ago

I'd be shocked if bike frames were not robotically welded already.

rorykoehler2• 7 years ago

I'm sure there are but most elite bikes Giant make are carbon which isn't welded

nextos9• 7 years ago

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes.

However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics.

And with cost reduction comes lower quality. Higher tolerances, zero pollution standards, etc. In particular, most items I got from China have this terrible new plastic smell that is almost intoxicating. Same for some clothing dyes. Studies show formaldehyde concentrations are really high in Chinese homes, and I'm not surprised.

Hence, a few years ago I made a resolution to raise my standards and avoid those things. But it's a lot of trouble to find high quality items these days. I want to own few things and keep most for the rest of my life. I have slowly curated such a list, but it's as I said you need to go out of your way and often get custom things from niche brands.

Once a big company in a particular industry moves to China, most will follow shortly. It's game theory. The average customer couldn't care less about things I mentioned above. Sadly, it's all about price.

tl;dr As a consumer I miss much better reviews and reports on product quality, safety and repairability. I feel that'd improve the situation where most industries localize to China to cut costs at the expense of everything else due to information asymmetry.

josho• 7 years ago

Sadly, it's all about price.

It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else.

Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde.

Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

nextos9• 7 years ago

That's not entirely true. In the EU, there are lots of tags that guarantee product safety. CE marks (for electronics), OEKO-TEX (safe textiles), GOTS (organic textiles), etc. The US has some equivalent ones I am less familiar with. In fact, both OEKO-TEX and GOTS are global standards.

Some Xiaomi products have not been imported to EU because they failed to obtain CE marks. And you'd never encounter a product that smells formaldehyde with an OEKO-TEX label.

But I agree the information is quite asymmetric. As a customer, I want to know a lot more about how products are made. And I want to be able to repair them and source replacement parts.

davidw4• 7 years ago

On that same subject - it was interesting to me how much better fresh produce was in Italy. In no small part I think this is due to the fact that people have a pretty good ability to distinguish the quality of a lot of traditional foods there.

In the stores, the produce isn't usually as neat and tidy and pretty as in the US - you might even find a few bad bits and pieces, but by and large, it tastes really good.

azernik2• 7 years ago

Yup. I worked at a company selling enterprise equipment, and they were absolutely opposed to entering the consumer market precisely because low-information customers push everyone into a race to the bottom.

option• 7 years ago

that’s why we need regulatory bodies and, yes, tariffs which should factor all those additional costs: to environment, human rights, etc.

daveguy2• 7 years ago

I think this is one of the few places where blockchain would be more help than hurt. Provenance of materials, location of manufacture, even tolerances and standards applied could be tracked across multiple independent companies. Of course, enforcing what goes on the blockchain would be a whole different can of worms. This sort of tracking is important in manufacturing standards (ISO9001). Coupling non-central control of the manufacturing record would be very helpful implementing standards like ISO9001 and allow third party analysis of "manufacturing quality" and "environmental impact" ... even better if it can be integrated into manufacturing instruments that can register a step automatically. Shipping and supply companies are looking heavily into these types of applications.

ppod• 7 years ago

Good point. This is where public online reviews come in. It's a bit tricky with amazon, because for some products different sellers source slightly different versions of the product (or just knock-offs), but in theory open online review is a revolution for the customer-quality information gap.

ghbvfv2• 7 years ago

“It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else.”

Neither can statisticians so that’s why I don’t put any trust in CPI numbers (“inflation”). They don’t even track amount sold (I.e. did the 355 ml pop become 340ml?) how are they going to track quality???

monk_e_boy3• 7 years ago

When the internet was young and I was wide eyed optimistic I thought reviews and ratings would solve this problem. It didn't. Then amazon came along and promised a similar panacea, user ratings... but again it didn't quite happen.

I feel twitter suffers the same problems. Who is genuine? Who has unbiased knowledge? Who can tell me the truth about a product? Can I know your credentials online without knowing your name? ((Imagine twitter posts being flagged "This person has no qualifications and has failed a basic maths exam")) -- idea - online exams with my results cryptographically signed.

Block-chain seemed to offer some sort of solution. Maybe if we had trusted manufacturers of components, then these components could be tracked (along with pollution, carbon miles, labour policies, etc) all logged in the block chain. A bit like "fair trade" but for other items. Easily checked using your phone/bar-code before purchasing.

sonnyblarney• 7 years ago

"It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else."

They can, but it's obviously the biggest signal.

But let's not confuse the plight of the middle/upper middle class who can afford to start to invest in aspiration, and make other qualitative judgments about things like supply chain.

China+Wallmart have made entire categories of goods and services available to regular working people, at prices they can afford. The consumer surpluses have been vast.

However much we may not like all of the ugly bits that come along with that new reality (and there are many) - we often forget the immense surpluses they bring to quite a lot of people.

Most people don't have a lot of money and are very price sensitive, and being able to afford 'stuff' can in many cases improve their lives quite dramatically.

Anecdotally, I've been helping to create a physical product for mass consumption, and this has really hit home with me in our earlier trials and feedback from customers. Without getting into specifics, the 'simple' version of our product at $40 is accessible to most. The fancy version at $80 will be beyond the reach of most. Margins will be what they can be, but for the first time in my professional career, it dawned on my quite clearly all of these folks clamouring for our product for whom we would have to say 'no' to, because of price point: they are not going to be able to get the little bump in lifestyle. It was the weirdest bit of 'capitalist equality/opportunity' logic, but I really felt bad that we might have to tell all those folks that they 'can't have it'. All things equal, I want to make it as affordable as I can because that brings a lot of benefit to people.

So yes, after 20 years of this China-Wallmart global supply chain powerhouse ... maybe we should start to take stock of all of these externalities, but let's also not forget how much of the surpluses go to those who need it.

Now consider that there are still 4 billion people who are going to 'come online' into basic economic prosperity who are going to want and need 'stuff' to!

I hope we start to figure out plastics, waste, pollution, but we also want to make stuff accessible.

H1Supreme• 7 years ago

Meermin/Feit shoes

There's another company out of the US called Grant Stone who makes shoes in China. They are some of the best constructed leather shoes I've ever seen. Lots of people compare them to Aldens, which are double the price.

flyGuyOnTheSly6• 7 years ago

But it's a lot of trouble to find high quality items these days. I want to own few things and keep most for the rest of my life.

I concur on both fronts.

Might I suggest you check out thrift or second hand stores?

I have a collection of old aluminum cased power tools made in the mid 20th century in North America, and I think the most I paid for any one of them was $12 CAD.

They look amazing.

You can take them apart quickly and easily if you need to re-grease them.

You can re-wind the motor if you somehow manage to short it out.

They don't need a warranty, as they have proven themselves over the past 50+ years already.

Etc.

We've made a LOT of quality products over the years, many of which make their way into thrift stores sooner or later.

Paying 10% of what something would cost brand new, and getting quality that is typically 10x greater than the brand new version is a steal imho.

obmelvin• 7 years ago

Any tips on how you identify such items that are worth buying? Those tools sound like an amazing deal.

bigiain6• 7 years ago

Take a bit of care with those... When I was a kid I was using my granddad's orbital sander - with a beautiful alloy body, when one of the brushes _finally_ wore right through, and the spring and pigtail popped out of the brush holder and put the live 240V AC conductor into the casing... (Not at all helped by the fact I was using the extension cord from the double insulated electric lawnmower, which had earth pins on the plug/sockets, but no earth conductor in the cable...) My arm waved around uncontrollably as I couldn't release the grip in my hand - until it _finally_ bashed itself into the boat I was sanding down and hammered it out of my hand. I have no idea how I came out of that unscathed...

dingaling• 7 years ago

In the UK most 'thrift' or charity shops are hollowed-out since they realised they could make much more money selling valuable items online in auctions. Since then they have a national audience and not just wall-ins from one town.

UI_at_80x24• 7 years ago

Sadly, it's all about price.

This is the problem, but not how you are stating it. If CEO's didn't make 300x the lowest paid employee, and "shareholders didn't demand" exponential growth quarter after quarter, then the price to be 'Not made in China' would be reasonable.

Fix these problems then the damages caused by seeking "cheapest possible AND cheaper" would be non-existant.

*NB: I am a shareholder. I want my investment to MATCH inflation not magically exceed it. If everybody stops being so greedy this is possible. (I wouldn't need to buy shares if my company and government didn't fuck up Retirement Benefits.)

henriquemaia• 7 years ago

If everybody stops being so greedy this is possible.

Problem is that we, as evolved creatures in a world of scarcity, are hoarders by... nature. Greed is just a morally misguided way of hoarding. So, waiting for people to stop being greedy is much more difficult than just making the right moral choices.

bigiain6• 7 years ago

I think it's more complex than that. It's not _just_ the CEO and investors greed. People's time in "1st world countries" is more expensive because _everything_ is more expensive. There's pretty much no manufacturing left here in Australia, because the wages on offer for "factory jobs" can't pay rent or buy food in Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane. And if you _did_ pay your "factory workers" in Australian cities enough to rent/buy a home there, your base assembly costs start out at more that the manufactured-and-delivered price for the same item from China. Automation will help fix one end of that problem (the cost to manufacure side), but will make the other end worse (even fewer jobs for lesser skilled workers).

I don't _like_ that fact that global economies and inexpensive shipping have made arbitrage of inequity a real business profit driver. But the reality is that a bunch of people in China are prepared to work in factories making widgets for less money than anybody in Australia - and moving shipping containers full of widgets is _way_ less expensive than the difference.

kortilla• 7 years ago

BS, if it wasn’t about consumers going for lower prices, the market would be packed with high-end manufacturers. People want cheap shit at Walmart regardless of how much the CEO of Alphabet makes.

AJ007• 7 years ago

If you have an investment that matches inflation then after taxes you will have a negative return.

taf2• 7 years ago

Seems to me you could share and possibly monetize your list for others and your benefit

quickthrower2• 7 years ago

I avoid things shipped directly from China or HK, but happy to buy something made in China from an Australia store so there is some guarantee of quality and safety.

zarkov99• 7 years ago

Do you happen to have published your curated list somewhere? I feel the same towards quality so I am always looking.

matt_heimer• 7 years ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/ Note the sidebar links.

sasaf53• 7 years ago

Particularly I miss low-spec, high quality items. I want a good laptop for writing, it has to be only powerful enough to run emacs and a browser. but it has to survive being trashed around and the battery must be available 10 years from now for replacement. Good luck finding that kind of product...

bitwize• 7 years ago

They're called "used ThinkPads".

malloryerik• 7 years ago

I'm very skeptical, but there's supposedly emacs for Chromebooks: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsForChromeBooks

z3phyr• 7 years ago

8 megs and swapping

xkeyloggerscore• 7 years ago

I would never have used a computer connected to the internet, ever, for anything personal, such as writing.

All my writing and personal-things -machines go offline, permanently, before I'd write anything, and they stay offline forever.

fhbdukfrh• 7 years ago

While lots of cheap bicycles are made in China it's also where practically all high end carbon fiber bikes are made as well. Just like we discounted made in Japan a generation ago, we like to do the same with China today. It's true for some industries but just wishful thinking for many. Look at what's happening with Chinese cars for an example of rapid manufacturing improvement

audiometry• 7 years ago

"cheap" versus "high-end" is not as clear a distinction as it seems. In fairness, it depends what you're looking for.

Carbon Fiber is lighter, ok, so call that the high-end one. But in reality, their durability is lousy -- in addition to being mostly-ruined by a crash, they do deteriorate over time. I know this first-hand as a colleague repairs carbon fiber frames [imagine lots of epoxy and carbon wraps], so I see a huge gamut of failures. Most of the frames coming in are probably 2-8 years old? Will be interesting to see how they 'wear' in the 10-20+ timeframe.

This, in comparison to steel frames, which have fantastic crash resistance (one of my frame's toptube has a huge dent in in for years no problem, and, another friend, a racer, finished a multi-day stage race with the headtube angle crunched-in after rear-ending a car early in the race). Also, provided they're rust-proof'd the frames last decades and can be repaired, modified.

I've been to ?a? ?the? Giant factory in Taiwan seeing them manufacture steel frames -- it was amazingly simple and primitive and mass-scale factory way out from Taipei, in the countryside.

I suppose another win for carbon is it enables lots of weird/cool frame shapes. There are shaped steel and aluminum tubes, but nothing like the options in carbon.

I think the weight advantage of carbon is lower than you'd expect -- high-end cromoly-steel frames are made from suprisingly thin tubing that is very sound.

Anyway, I am clearly a fan of steel frames and more randonneur-style riding. If I was into triathlons or time trials, I'd probably reply differently. And I also increasingly dislike throwaway culture and I don't believe these carbon frames hold up in the longterm.

agreen• 7 years ago

I have slowly curated such a list, but it's as I said you need to go out of your way and often get custom things from niche brands.

Any plans on making this list publicly available?

Nition2• 7 years ago

I have this vague idea of starting a "buy it for life" type store, everything with a 10+ year warranty, plus required maintenance stated clearly for each product. Sell tools, clothing, kitchenware, appliances, whatever.

Is there anywhere like that already? I'm in New Zealand but I'd like to hear about international examples even if I couldn't shop there.

inanutshellus• 7 years ago

I think it was called "Sears"...

nextos9• 7 years ago

I think Manufactum is the most similar thing out there, yet still far from perfect. They focus too much on old looks vs quality.

hkmurakami• 7 years ago

Giant contract manufacturers bike frames for many brands that are considered “high end”, including Bianchi and Trek. So it’s not like they’re known for low quality.

rstuart4133• 7 years ago

A counter example is solar panels. China makes most of the worlds solar panels, and Chinese engineers design them, thereby proving under the right conditions the Chinese can put together a world class manufacturing chain without anyone else. Evidently Chinese engineers are as good at their jobs and any other engineer on the planet which is to be expected given the number of them they churn out.

Given that, what's surprising is Solar panels are the exception. Push bikes are a great example. I'm pretty sure there are more electric push bikes in China, possibly more than the rest of the world put together. All are designed and built in China. So you would expect with that much volume and competition the best ebikes would come out of China. But that's not what has happened: Chinese designed ebikes are crap.

There was a Australian documentary about China and the Chinese mentality called "Two men in China". One of the presenters was previously Australia's Chief Scientist. It's both hugely entertaining and very informative if you can find it. Anyway, they presented a typical Chinese house. It as small and cramped by Australian standards, but everything was shiny and modern. Only there was a problem: the cupboard doors were falling off. Apparently this generally happens after about 6 months. Doors fall off, carpet comes up, roofs leak, electronics breaks, LED lights that should last 50,000 hours died after 500. No one seemed overly upset by this turn of events. No one was demanding someone come back and fix it. It was just accepted.

The difference then between the solar panels and the ebikes isn't the capability of the designed or the manufacturers. Of all things, it's the difference of the consumer. Where the Western consumer pushes back hard when their solar panels don't work (and by push back I mean law suites, legislation, and ultimately people going to jail) the Chinese consumer allows the manufacturers to get away delivering crap and lying about it. Who would have thought discerning customers were a key ingredient in making a great manufacturing nation?

walrus012• 7 years ago

If you know the bicycle industry, what's interesting is that Giant started out as a Taiwanese based manufacturer, and is probably going to go back there for some things. And to other places like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia.

They are actually not very much different from the top ten largest Taiwanese motherboard makers. All the motherboards used to be made in Taiwan (Hsin-Chu City, etc). For lower labor costs and other things they moved a lot of production to mainland China and kept the design/R&D/HQ in Taiwan. Now some things are going to go back the other way.

NorthOf33rd2• 7 years ago

Even the parts still made in Taiwan are often made by imported labor, last time I visited a bike factory, many signs were _only_ in thai. Taiwanese labor is just too expensive to hit the margins targets US bike manufacturers are looking for. It looks like the shift that's been happening toward SE Asia will just accelerate.

walrus012• 7 years ago

a large number of taiwan based AC-to-DC and DC/DC power supply manufacturers (Delta, Zippy, etc) have opened factories in Thailand. If you look at the ATX power supplies sold on newegg for instance, there's about 60 different brand names, actually manufactured by about 12 different companies. I'd say at least half of those have moved manufacturing outside of mainland china because they have better labor/cost of operations opportunities elsewhere in developing parts of southeast asia.

mymythisisthis• 7 years ago

Bicycles are something that you need to be careful buying. Don't buy a BSO - a Bicycle Shaped Object. Just because it looks like a bike, doesn't mean you can comfortably ride it. An entry level bike is about $1200. You can comfortably ride it for hours, or up hills, carry a heavy load, it won't easily break, and it'll have a smooth ride. I feel bad for people that go out and buy a BSO; BSOs ruin cycling. We need to have laws in place to prevent crap from reaching the market.

nihonde2• 7 years ago

I have to laugh at this. In Japan, my Chinese-made bicycle is bulletproof and entirely functional. It cost $150, shipped to my front door. It’s a folding bike with 9 speeds and disc brakes. I’ve ridden it day after day for years. It spent two years without shelter in the elements. It won’t win the Tour but it is a winner in every other way.

You can tell me the environmental impact was horrendous and I would believe you, but the quality of this bicycle can’t be denied.

davidw4• 7 years ago

Sounds like it's a decent commuter-ish bike?

You don't see many of those in the US compared to places like Europe or in your case Japan.

Probably because there's less of a market for them in the US.

What the OP is probably thinking of is the crappy bikes you get at supermarkets, where the quality is really not very good, and they're assembled by someone who is not paying attention. Sometimes they try and look like a more expensive bike: front shocks, lots of gears and so on. The commuter bikes in Europe were, on the other hand, built with that in mind - big fenders, more upright position, and fairly rugged if not lightweight construction. You wouldn't mistake them for a bike you'd want to go on a long ride with.

jwong_2• 7 years ago

What's the bike you got? I am in the market for one in China, and have a hard time filtering for quality.

baroffoos3• 7 years ago

An entry level bike is not $1200. Thats a mid range high quality bike. If you trips are short you can be totally fine on a $400 road bike. I would just avoid department store bikes that are typically under $300 but are built to look like high end mountain bikes. The suspension on them is totally useless and makes it ride worse than a bike with no suspension.

saltcured• 7 years ago

Yeah, there are lots of basic, good quality bikes in the $400-500 range. People just need to go to a real bike shop or a place like REI with a good bike department and helpful staff. It is true that once you drop to the $200-300 range, there is a lot of junk to avoid.

My current bike is 10 years old. I bought a $500 hard-tail Marin mountain bike to use for commuting, expecting that it would be able to take some abuse. My wife has a similar vintage bike from the REI house brand at the time (Novara) and it seems of similar quality. I am pretty sure both have Giant frames under their paint. These aluminum frames and disc brakes are a revelation compared to my previous long-term bike which was a lugged-steel Bridgestone with cantilever and cam rim brakes.

I have been almost negligent with maintenance, mainly just oiling the chain and replacing tires and tubes. I don't miss re-packing the bearings and freewheel like my old bike. I am not sure how much that is due to modern tech versus changes in my riding habits. I haven't left the asphalt with the current bike.

I did have to have a wheel re-spoked once after I pounded it in a deep pot-hole with narrow street tires mounted. My Shimano trigger shifters are near the point of needing some kind of major tune-up. I think I would have preferred to keep the simpler indexed levers from the 1990s, as they required a little more operator skill but were less finicky.

jdietrich• 7 years ago

We need to have laws in place to prevent crap from reaching the market.

We already do, they're just weakly enforced and (in the US in particular) archaic and badly drafted.

Tiktaalik• 7 years ago

nah. Buy a used old 1980s era Japanese bike from craigslist for ~$300. It'll be fine and good.

analog314• 7 years ago

In addition, being self sufficient for maintenance can turn practically any bike into a good working bike. I ride old bikes, but have tuned them to perfection.

gravelc• 7 years ago

Giant is a Taiwanese company. I've had quite a few of their road bikes and mountain bikes over the years, and they have all been excellent - superbly designed and built. All made in Taiwan too - it seems only their cheaper frames are made in China (https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-fa...). From what I've heard, a majority of the world's high-end bicycle frames are manufactured by Giant and Pacific Cycles in Taiwan, then re-branded.

phkahler• 7 years ago

But if you ask China, Taiwan is also China.

stefantalpalaru• 7 years ago

But if you ask China, Taiwan is also China.

It's the same if you ask Taiwan. Their official name is "Republic of China".

uxp100• 7 years ago

Yes. I think taiwan was/is a leader in Carbon Fiber. 90s carbon-fiber-glued-to-aluminum bikes were all made from CF tubing that was made in taiwan, by Giant (that last detail I'm a little less sure on, made in taiwan for certain). Specialized, Trek, and Giant all had very similar bikes available at that time, conventional geometries with Shimano 600 (I've got one, I love it). Modern monocoque designs are a little more diverse in design, but I think all but the highest end are made in taiwan.

baroffoos3• 7 years ago

I don't have a Giant bike but I have some giant accessories and they have all been to a very high standard.

NorthOf33rd2• 7 years ago

Re-branded isn't quite correct, they are a contract manufacturer, so they are made specifically for the brands. Rebranded makes me think of open mold or catalog frames.

JeremyNT• 7 years ago

Many bikes for other brands (if not most) are made by Kinesis out of Taiwan, which may be what you are referring to. Although the company was founded by Giant employees it is not the same company as Giant itself.

kpU8efre7r2• 7 years ago

I've had good luck with any Taiwanese goods that I've bought to the point that I trust Taiwanese goods as much my own American goods.

weiming3• 7 years ago

We just moved and needed to buy some new kitchenware. You would not believe how difficult it is to find so much as a spoon that is not made in China. Even from any name brand, even in a "fancy" store like Williams-Sonoma.

hashbig• 7 years ago

May I ask, why are you specifically looking for a spoon that isn't made in China?

weiming3• 7 years ago

Assumption (partly from personal experience) that products may be more likely tainted with unknown or harmful substances for the sake of cost cutting somewhere in the pipeline.

bpicolo2• 7 years ago

Gotta be more targeted in your searches if that's what you care about.

https://www.sherrillmfg.com/

https://www.globalkitchenjapan.com/collections/flatware-cutl...

weiming3• 7 years ago

Thank you. Looking Japanese stuff is a great idea. They are one of the few places to still keep some manufacturing "in-house."

Searching is hard and companies are not always fully transparent about their process. E.g. "Assembled in the USA" for a frying pan could mean that the pan and handle are made in China, but riveted to each other in the USA. Sigh.

nextos9• 7 years ago

Try Sambonet for example, great quality, made in Italy.

Or some WMF steel, made in Germany. Other components might come from China, though.

lesdeuxmagots• 7 years ago

Cutipol is Portuguese. Liberty Table Top still manufactures in the US.

kpU8efre7r2• 7 years ago

Yep. I wanted a good American made roasting rack so I went to Williams Sonoma. They're all made in China now.

sk5t• 7 years ago

All-Clad (but not the HA2 line, I presume an MBA got their hooks into the operation) is still made in the USA.

thorin• 7 years ago

Pretty easy to find this kind of stuff in the UK, e.g. a lot of cutlery used to be made in Sheffield which is near to me and there still seems to be a demand.

https://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Old_English.html#SID...

blunte• 7 years ago

Already a lot of popular brand frames were made in Taiwan.

Also, if enough manufacturing shifted to Taiwan, that itself might prompt a certain "stable genius" to add them to the list of tariff countries. Or China might become aggressive enough toward Taiwan that he would lump them with China in tariffs.

ereyes01• 7 years ago

If the recent tariffs are cited as the main reason for not making things in China, wouldn't things naturally reverse themselves when they are lifted? The tariffs strike me as an artifice that can't be sustained for a very long time- what is their lasting effect that changes the economics of manufacturing things in China?

goodcjw2• 7 years ago

Or what if China will play dirty and devaluates CNY against USD to offset the tariffs? This will be extremely bad and potentially means another escalation to the trade war...

kazinator• 7 years ago

Which parts of a better quality Giant bike are made in China, anyway?

Maybe they hare having the Giant-branded frames made in China? (I'd be wary of this stuff, if true; a crappy frame can break and kill you.) Or perhaps tires. Kenda tires (Taiwan brand) are likely made in China.

Nothing that you actually hang onto a frame to make a bike that is worth a damn comes from China: cassettes, rings, cranks, hubs, bottom brackets, shifter, brakes, rims, you name it. Only low-end garbage like SunRace cassettes, ProMax brakes and whatnot.

Bike all around the world are typically the same in this way. The "brand" part of the bike goes into the frame, and then what's on it is third-party components from familiar brands.

Some Shimano stuff is made in places like Indonesia. I don't recall having seen a "made in China" stamp on it, though.

mikeryan• 7 years ago

A lot of high end carbon bike frames come from China and or Taiwan.

stevenwoo2• 7 years ago

For a background on the bicycle manufacturing business, there is a section in this article (on starting a bicycle company) on the history of how bicycle manufacturing shifted to Asia. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/we-went-to-taiwan-and-started-...

rorykoehler2• 7 years ago

I own a 2017 Giant and it was made in Taiwan. They've always made their bikes in Taiwan. In fact Taiwan is the performance bike manufacturing capital of the world (largely thanks to Giant). Giant have carbon manufacturing techniques and knowledge that is renowned as the worlds best. All of this always happened in Taiwan.

mullingitover• 7 years ago

It's "over" until it isn't: > That’s why Giant is open to reverting production to its Chinese plants if the U.S. and China are able to hammer out a trade deal. If America “decides to remove the 25% tariff, we will move the production back to China right away,” Tu said.

fnord77• 7 years ago

Tariffs are adding $100 on average to the price of bicycles made in China and exported to the U.S., compared with those made in zero-tariff areas, Tu said, explaining the rationale for the switch to the Taiwanese site.

entee• 7 years ago

Ironically, the pic at the top of the article has many bikes painted "Trek" in the background despite the caption saying it's Giant's facility. In truth, pretty much every major bike manufacturer makes their frames in Taiwan, often in the same facilities. Decals and branding are applied after.

There's a huge amount of manufacturing know-how and infrastructure around bike manufacture in Taiwan, especially around carbon fiber manufacturing. You can even go buy a carbon frame design in Taiwan, you pay more for the design if you want it to be exclusive.

Therefore, it's not terribly surprising that they moved to Taiwan. If they were moving to the US that would be something.

nerdwaller• 7 years ago

For those interested in MTB, guerrilla gravity is designed and, as far as I know, built in Colorado. The reviews of their bikes (even aluminum frames) are resoundingly positive. Considering the price points they’re not one to overlook.

https://ridegg.com/

World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

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