Only 37 dogs of each breed can have the same name

https://twitter.com/leftoblique/status/1139737041162272768

by slyall • 7 years ago

227 92 7 years ago

twitter.com

saghm• 7 years ago

Evidently they decided six characters gave them the best trade-off between flexibility and cost of typesetting?

They didn't think that using Arabic rather than Roman numerals gave them a better tradeoff?

protomyth2• 7 years ago

These are names, and its traditional to use Roman numerals with names for people, and many treat dogs like people, so....

thaumasiotes3• 7 years ago

That analogy is broken; it's traditional to use Roman numerals to indicate that people hold the nth instance of the same name in a line of patrilineal descent (or, even more traditionally, a line of rulership). Roger White's son could be Roger White II; Roger White IV's son is definitely Roger White V.

But two Roger Whites from separate families won't use numbers at all; both of them are just Roger White. The AKC is numbering unrelated dogs.

And we appear to use arabic numerals for that use case: see https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/26880947/lee6-wins-us-w...

LoSboccacc• 7 years ago

storage is irrelevant to presentation. store the number as number and convert in Roman numerals on the front-end. even a short would run you up to 255

JeremyBanks• 7 years ago

It's the AKC. Stupid traditions are the point.

protomyth2• 7 years ago

You know it is late or your mind is in a sad state when you picture the exact tables you would need to make this work in a relational database. It is amazing the amount of real versions of the apocryphal railroad width stories out in the world.

dredmorbius4• 7 years ago

Vaguely related: 1888 was the longest year in history, to date -- typographically as expressed in Roman numerals.

Thirteen characters: MDCCCLXXXVIII.

That record will stand until tied in 2388 (MMCCCLXXXVIII), and won't be exceeded until 2888 (MMDCCCLXXXVIII).

function_seven2• 7 years ago

Kids these days have it easy with their movie credits. In my day, you had to pause the tape to work out what year the movie was copyrighted.

Die Hard: MCMLXXXVIII

Avengers: Endgame: MMXIX

tcbawo• 7 years ago

Roman numerals remind me of that adage that obsolete technologies never really go away. There might be more people alive today that use Roman numerals than at the Roman empire's peak.

interfixus• 7 years ago

In my day, you didn't have any tape, so you got frantic, working out the numeral before the memory faded. This was really the way I learned whatever meagre roman numerical skills I possess.

mongol• 7 years ago

Why do movie credits use roman numerals for production year in the first place?

Jedd• 7 years ago

I recall reading something aeons ago to the effect that the subtractive notation was not common when the numbering system was first invented, but was added (ha) much later. I've had a quick search for something definitive now, but no joy, so the story may be apocryphal.

In any case, if true it would change the record for 'longest (roman numeral) date so far' to 1999 I think (MDCCCCLXXXXVIIII)

We still see subtractive notation eschewed in various places, most notably roman numerals on clocks, though that may be more for aesthetic balance, as the 4 opposes the 8.

In almost* every variant you have to write 8 as "VIII", and because IV doesn't balance so well, you usually see IIII on clocks.

* There are cases where irregular subtractive forms are in use - so 8 could be written as IIX.

dredmorbius4• 7 years ago

"IV" seems more common than "IIII" based on a very informal survey:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=roman+numeral+(watch%7Cclock)+face...

dredmorbius4• 7 years ago

Also:

https://monochrome-watches.com/why-do-clocks-and-watches-use...

function_seven2• 7 years ago

What problems would arise if they skipped numbers that exceed the 6 characters? Like, go from 37 to 39 (XXXIX). Then you have a solid run until you run into 78.

And 78 ought to be enough for anyone.

yorwba3• 7 years ago

The Dog Name Check Tool is very clear on that matter:

"Roman numerals must not be included at the end of the dog's name. The AKC reserves the right to assign roman numerals for identification purposes."

"The name you have chosen contains the restricted word 'XXXIX' which cannot be used."

However...

"King XXXX has been verified for use for this breed."

So numbers from 40 onwards are not rejected by the automatic check. I don't know whether an application would be handled by a human who might notice this, though.

williamdclt• 7 years ago

40 is XL, not XXXX. "King XL" is rejected (and sounds like a condom brand)

jobigoud• 7 years ago

If you skip numbers then you could go way higher using the bigger ones. Say "MXXIV" or "MMXL".

jancsika• 7 years ago

What if any are the restrictions on characters in the dog's name?

GOODBOY_FLUFFBALL_TAILWAGGER_DOGGO_BESTY_4EVAEVA~1

GOODBOY_FLUFFBALL_TAILWAGGER_DOGGO_BESTY_4EVAEVA~2

Etc.

logicallee• 7 years ago

No dog may be called exactly "con" or "aux" :)

(kidding)

anticensor• 7 years ago

A pet called com1 may experience burocratic issues.

bloopernova• 7 years ago

From now, I'm going to call my dogs by UUID.

There's a lot of very cur-mudgeonly comments on this post. It's just a little quirk of someone's sort of database, and a little lesson in designing in flexibility.

bscphil3• 7 years ago

Kind of a weird, deceiving title choice. There's no rule or law anywhere requiring this ... you can name your dog whatever you want. Apparently there is an organization called the AKC (never heard of it) which allows you to register your dog. Their record-keeping system can only hold 37 dogs of each name / breed combination because of old technological requirement.

So if you have a dog you want to register with this specific organization for whatever reason, there might be limitations on what you can name it. That's much less interesting to me than the title suggests. Does everyone register their dog with this organization for some reason? I'm not sure why you'd want to do that.

notimetorelax• 7 years ago

It's American Kennel Club that maintains registry of purebred dog pedigrees. Sounds quite important if you breed dogs.

dagenix• 7 years ago

I think "deceiving title choice" is a bit strong. Of course you can name your dog whatever you want. I highly doubt that anyone read this and actually thought that there was some sort of global law requiring this.

That's much less interesting to me than the title suggests.

I'm having a hard time imagining some more interesting, plausible thing that you thought the title suggested.

bscphil3• 7 years ago

Fair enough, I suppose I should have worded my complaint the other way around. A better title would have been "Why only 37 dogs of each breed can have the same name registered at the American Kennel Club".

Self-diagnosing a little, I think my skeptical attitude towards institutions is acting up here. It's weird to me when people use "name" when what they really mean is "name registered with institution X". I don't see why anyone should care what the AKC thinks of their dog's name, in kind of the same way that registering a name for a star in a star registry is similarly stupid.

gloflo• 7 years ago

I expected some mathematical puzzle of some sort. And the problem sounded so unbelievable that it got my interest.

jessriedel• 7 years ago

I highly doubt that anyone read this and actually thought that there was some sort of global law requiring this.

Sure, but it's exactly the desire to reduce the tension between what you know to be true and the title that makes clickbait effective. This could have also been a law from 1700 that was never enforced, or whatever.

toomuchequate• 7 years ago

I highly doubt that anyone read this and actually thought that there was some sort of global law requiring this.

I did! or at least US wide law.

jadell• 7 years ago

If you want to compete in the highest tier dog shows (with the largest cash prizes) or use your dog to breed other purebreds, in the US at least, you must be registered with the American Kennel Club. It's probably the most important organization in the country if you are involved with that world.

sandworm101• 7 years ago

AKC name /= the dog's real name. Just like horses, show/race name is often totally different than the "stable" name the animal actually knows.

maxander• 7 years ago

A quirk of an old, badly implemented database... from before the days of databases.

Maxious• 7 years ago

You can still make a varchar(7) column if you want

systemtrigger• 7 years ago

This part:

  They're:
  Spot                 I
  Spot                II
  ...

is not quite correct. The AKC does not assign a number to the first one.

Open the Dog Name Check [1]. Pick a breed, enter a unique dog name, and the page will report it is available. Now pick a semi-unique combination ("Shih Tzu" + "King") and the page will say "The name chosen has been used previously, but may be used with the following change: King XXXVII." This implies the first person to pick "King" got "King" and the second person got "King II."

One dog per breed can have the name Spot/King/etc. But the AKC is a rent-seeking monopoly and 6 Roman numerals is short enough to still appear somewhat exclusive.

[1] https://www.apps.akc.org/apps/reg/namecheck/index.cfm

hirsin• 7 years ago

So it's an off by one error in the post?

Svip• 7 years ago

I think it's more like how it's Pope Francis and not Pope Francis I, since he's the first Pope Francis, you don't add the number. We will only do that after the fact, i.e. when another pope chooses the name Francis.

So grandparent's point isn't that it's off by one, but that the first name is inaccurate for the time it was rewarded. Although, considering we are viewing it _after the fact_, i.e. now that more dogs are called the same, I think it's fair to add the "I" at the end.

Taniwha• 7 years ago

maybe they allow XXX1X (ie 39 but not 38)

everdev• 7 years ago

No, they only allow 6 characters for the number of the dog. To write 38 in Roman numerals requires 7 characters. So that's why they only allow 37 of the same name.

tobiasSoftware• 7 years ago

No, Spot II is still Spot II, but Spot I should be Spot.

wavefunction• 7 years ago

akc as rent seeking monstrosity

I don't really have a... dog in this hunt... but anyone could start up their own dog registry with whatever rules they want. I don't believe the AKC has preempted competition via regulatory capture, for example.

LocalH• 7 years ago

Don't give them any ideas

microtherion• 7 years ago

Put the dog registrations on a blockleash!

panopticon• 7 years ago

For what it’s worth, there are a lot of other dog registries. Unfortunately, many of them seem to be associated with backyard breeders who look for registries with more lax rules to legitimize their stock.

GICodeWarrior• 7 years ago

When I saw "purebred" and "AKC", my mind immediately went to:

The Bizarre Truth About Purebred Dogs (and Why Mutts Are Better) - Adam Ruins Everything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv10_WvGxo

2muchcoffeeman2• 7 years ago

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/7620507.stm

goldenkey• 7 years ago

Shelters are full of dogs that breeders surrender because the offspring weren't to their liking or diseased or imbred. It's quite sad and we shouldn't be supporting purebred breeders anymore. They are trading other creatures' pain for their own gain and profit :-/

opencl• 7 years ago

And the RSPCA report mentioned at the end of the article: https://www.rspca.org.uk/webContent/staticImages/Downloads/P...

topicseed• 7 years ago

Most AKC-registered dogs belong to a breeder's kennel or bloodline. You never really register "Max" to the AKC. You generally register Hilly Billy's Max The Beau. Even if at home you just use Max, and Hilly Billy is the kennel affix.

It is a little like horses, and their insane official names.

jlawson2• 7 years ago

Now I want to hear more about insane official horse names... DDGing it didn't get me anywhere.

gshdg• 7 years ago

Basically, no two thoroughbreds can be registered with the same name. Basically the same issue.

stordoff• 7 years ago

Similar in the UK. My old dogs were registered as something like "Amyandas Golden Hind" and "Amyandas Golden Blend", which are obviously not their 'actual' names.

wjossey• 7 years ago

Yep! My dog has an insane official name.

I got special permission from her breeder to use their kennel in the name, even though she isn’t being raised by them.

Dry Pond’s Eager Big Lady Mountain Goat Meghan.

Each part of her name is a part of her story. But her name is Meghan.

wmeredith• 7 years ago

Ugh, this story interesting but I despise Twitter’s UI. Why is this being told through this medium?

codegladiator• 7 years ago

Meanwhile, I get a "you have been rate limited"... Which I don't understand, opening a Twitter link for first time in the last 4 days (been traveling)... Wasn't expecting this.

ebg13• 7 years ago

That happens on links to Twitter from HN on mobile. You have to reload the browser page.

Surely at least one Twitter SWE reads HN, so it's probably known and done maliciously.

dylz• 7 years ago

Appears intentional to try to frustrate adblock users

casefields• 7 years ago

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1139737041162272768.html

Only 37 dogs of each breed can have the same name

Related Stories