Magnesium and major depression (2011)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507265/

by known • 7 years ago

256 228 7 years ago

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Poor man's TLDR: we're not sure yet, but consider taking magnesium supplementation to help with or prevent MD. The downside of light Mg supplementation seems trivial, and the upside could be strong.

philshem• 7 years ago

Magnesium also promotes muscle relaxation and “calms the brain”. Here in Switzerland it’s commonly taken over-the-counter. I had never heard of it as a supplement in the US.

WoodenChair• 7 years ago

A supplement in the US is over the counter.

Tharkun2• 7 years ago

Mg deficiency is also implicated in some cardiac arrhythmias and supplementation has been shown to help.

jerf2• 7 years ago

That's why I'm taking it. I have an absorption disease (Celiac) and I was having terrible cardiac issues at 38 (and with a minor family history of heart issues at older age, but nothing like what I was having). Magnesium is one of the things it has taken to straighten it out.

If you have heart issues, you may have to try to balance magnesium and potassium. If the problem is a deficiency, this is a rather annoyingly difficult balancing act to pull off, because as per the comments in the beginning of Gwern's article about magnesium, magnesium has a very slow-moving component to it, where it depletes slowly but also only fills slowly, and a fast moving component that responds relatively quickly, and based on my experience, the heart's use of magnesium seems to be related to both. Potassium, by contrast, appears to take nearly instant effect. So you're balancing something you can't see that changes over the course of months or years against a nutritional input that is instant. This is not easy.

Several times I've settled on a dosing schedule that seemed to work for me, but had to be changed after a couple of months as the slow-pool magnesium (I hope) continued to improve. I've actually learned the difference in my body's reactions to a potassium deficiency (a tightness in the chest) vs. a magnesium deficiency (restless legs, heart that may not be "racing" but is not slowing down for sleep properly). YMMV; n=1, etc.

SmellyGeekBoy2• 7 years ago

It's also commonly recommended in the weightlifting world to aid in muscle recovery.

GrumpyNl• 7 years ago

Take some hart burn medicine and you get all the magnesium you can handle.

moh_maya• 7 years ago

Heart burn meds are often Mg Oxide or sulfate, which isn't that well absorbed. [1,2] for anxiety and depression, Mg Citrate works well, as does Mg Glycinate [3]

Just a heads up.

[1]http://www.kumc.edu/school-of-medicine/family-medicine/integ...

[2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2407766/

[3] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychia...

dageshi• 7 years ago

I think it might not be absorbed as well, but often there is just a lot more magnesium in oxide than glycinate. So even though it absorbs worse more actually ends up being absorbed in the end.

Personally I've felt a more potent reaction from oxide than glycinate, possibly for that reason.

idiot900• 7 years ago

This smells like a crackpot. The first author’s affiliation is his own “research institute”: https://m.george-eby-research.com/ and they claim a simple, somehow overlooked solution to a difficult problem, citing flimsy and ancient studies.

lettergram• 7 years ago

I generally agree with you, but lithium is also used to treat bi-polar disorder (among others) and it was discovered by accident. People used to recommend it without any data supporting it. I suspect this is how most treatments start

tokai2• 7 years ago

lithium [...] was discovered by accident.

No it was not. Development of treatment with lithium was very much a part of psychiatric normal science.

fxj3• 7 years ago

I recognized the author from another study where he claimed that he found a cure for atrial fibrillation. So I would take it with a grain of salt. Although there is obviously an effect of Magnesium on many important body functions, but the same is true for potassium or other minerals and amino acids. e.g. tryptophan against depression.

see:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868

ysleepy• 7 years ago

Also the first entry in the reference section is "ABC Homeopathy (2010) Magnesia Muriatica [..]" - without any mention in the text itself that it is used as some quip.

benjaminwootton• 7 years ago

I'm quite skeptical on supplements, but I have to say that Magnesium helps me sleep like a baby and feel much more relaxed generally.

taf2• 7 years ago

Whether it’s true or a placebo- sign me up :)

kingkawn• 7 years ago

In the treatment of subjective mood the distinction between ‘true’ and ‘placebo’ vanishes

seishan• 7 years ago

Same here. Taking magnesium L-threonate and melatonin before going to sleep has improved my sleep quality like nothing else.

n10003• 7 years ago

I recently realised that Mg is a reliable way for me to stop teeth grinding in my sleep.

bradhoffman2• 7 years ago

I am interested in hearing more. Did you try Mg with the intent of grinding your teeth less?

m_fayer• 7 years ago

Also very skeptical, and I try to test carefully. So far, it seems that Passionflower extract does boost my sleep quality and helps with early-morning-waking style insomnia. In the evening, CBD helps me downshift to a relaxed "end-of-day" mode that makes falling asleep much easier. Magnesium's next on my list.

phkahler4• 7 years ago

Magnesium glycinate is even better. Glycine turns out to be important too, but it's just used as filler.

cik2e• 7 years ago

Glycine’s not a filler in this instance. It’s used to aid absorption [1]. Mag glycinate is one of the only worthwhile forms of magnesium for supplementation, unless you’re using it as laxative. The latter being caused by gut irritation from unabsorbed magnesium.

But yes, glycine also has many of its own benefits. Including a very interesting theory regarding life extension due to its interaction with methionine. [2]

[1] https://examine.com/supplements/glycine/#nutrient-nutrient-i...

[2] https://www.fasebj.org/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.25.1_supplemen...

kasperni• 7 years ago

Funny, I see Magnesium frequently recommended for people on keto diets that have trouble sleeping.

SmellyGeekBoy2• 7 years ago

Add me to the list of happy magnesium supplementers. I always recommend it to anyone who mentions sleep problems and I've had good feedback from a couple of people who actually went through with it based on my recommendation.

aik3• 7 years ago

I’m also one where magnesium has almost magical positive effects on my sleep. When I started getting some anxiety several years ago, taking magnesium before bed was the only thing that kept me both asleep at night and sleeping deeply. I still take it often to get deeper sleep. I’ve always taken the citrate type.

Do you know why Mg helps you so much?

thorwasdfasdf10• 7 years ago

Your right to be skeptical of supplements. Supplement companies are completely unregulated, so in theory, they don't even have to put into their product what they say they're putting in.

radford-neal• 7 years ago

I'm pretty sure that that would qualify as fraud, a criminal offence.

crusso• 7 years ago

For the last couple of months I've been taking a 500mg magnesium and a .30 mg melatonin 10 minutes before I get into bed. Some nights I feel like I don't even roll over, I just wake up the next morning feeling like I've had really deep and uninterrupted sleep.

shaki-dora• 7 years ago

Needs a [2011] and some scepticism: Many people have tried Magnesium because it is cheap and available without prescription. If it were as effective as "success in 220 out of 250 cases" claims, that would show up.

The 220 of 250 claim also doesn't fit with "as effective as the tricyclic antidepressant imipramine". No antidepressant is 90% effective.

yetihehe2• 7 years ago

Most cheap magnesium is magnesium carbonate which is least effective and causes diarrhoea (should be taken with calcium to prevent that). Magnesium aspartate is sometimes prescribed as "working one", but can be neurotoxic (according to this paper).

gerbilly• 7 years ago

I take magnesium bis-glycinate, it's well absorbed and has no serious side effects.

mboto• 7 years ago

I have found that taking Magnesium is like turning a switch on in my head and I'm suddenly happy again. I don't get upset or angry in the same way, I'm more patient and my thoughts are not obsessive.

Magnesium is best taken with calcium and vitamin D as both are used in the uptake of magnesium.

I have found that processed foods, alcohol, caffeine and sugar all make me worse, but magnesium gives me the will power to change that lifestyle that caused the problem in the first place.

I don't know about quack studies but for the cheap price and quick turnaround (3 days for small effect, 2 week for a large scale shift) it's a simple thing to try.

ralphstodomingo• 7 years ago

What form are you taking them?

ddorian432• 7 years ago

Glycinate is ~most used/benefit/cost I think (i do).

There's also threonate which is in a weird state with effects,withdrawals,price etc. I have some and still haven't tried it.

digdugdirk• 7 years ago

What is your dosage and form for the supplements you mentioned?

user17843• 7 years ago

Not directly answering your question, but in general the studies and anecdotes point to around 200 mg of elemental magnesium in the form of magnesium threonate and 4,000 IE of Vitamin D to be a very good combination.

The Threonate makes the magnesium available to the brain.

Other forms of magnesium are usually taken in the 400-800 mg range.

Bakary• 7 years ago

Doesn't the article mention that calcium and vitamin D produce harmful effects?

ImprovedSilence• 7 years ago

I didn’t read the article, but I know you need to be careful with vit. D supplements. If you take too much, the body can’t utilize it all, and stores it in places that cause problems.

thorwasdfasdf10• 7 years ago

Calcium does produce harmful effects, but only if you get too much of it. If his diet has very little calcium in it he might be okay. And even if it doesn't, as long as the supplement has a 1:1 ratio, he should still be okay as it will even out the supply of calcium and magnesium in the body.

kerkeslager5• 7 years ago

I have found that taking Magnesium is like turning a switch on in my head and I'm suddenly happy again. I don't get upset or angry in the same way, I'm more patient and my thoughts are not obsessive.
Magnesium is best taken with calcium and vitamin D as both are used in the uptake of magnesium.

There are a bunch of studies which have found correlations between vitamin D and depression and (stronger) correlations between vitamin D and seasonal affective disorder.

If your supplementation is working for you, there's no reason to change it, but there's a fairly obvious alternate explanation for the phenomena in the fact that you're also supplementing Vitamin D.

ThrowawayP• 7 years ago

As another data point, magnesium supplementation doesn't do squat for my depression. Reputable brand, used the glycinate form, proper dosing, etc. No perceptible effect.

ekianjo• 7 years ago

for my depression

Depression is an array of conditions caused by multiple different root causes, so it's possible that Magnesium works only on some of them only and not on others.

Raphmedia• 7 years ago

magnesium

Yes! Magnesium changed my life!

I was certain that I was living with depression... until I read somewhere that lactose intolerance can lead to magnesium deficiency.

I started taking Magnesium and felt the effect immediately. All of my body is physically relaxed. I struggled with muscle cramps and spasms, they are gone thanks to increasing my magnesium intake. It's as if my muscles being under stress created anxiety and that anxiety reduced my ability to be happy.

I have also learned that I need to supplement with vitamin D during the winter to avoid having SAD. Vitamin D + Magnesium are also my solution to happiness.

beat• 7 years ago

I started taking magnesium on advice of a chiropractor, as I was getting a painful calcium deposit. I take a magnesium/calcium deposit, and later added vitamin D.

I don't know if it's the root cause, but my mental outlook has improved over the past few years.

kmmlng• 7 years ago

I once tried supplementing magnesium while in the midst of moderate depression. Interestingly enough, the effect was not relief, but rather major, absolutely crushing depression (i.e. cannot get out of bed all day depression). I went back to moderate depression after stopping the supplementation and a subsequent second attempt brought back the major depression. By that point I gave up on the whole thing.

Anyone have a similar experience or maybe some insight that might explain this?

sound1• 7 years ago

I didn't have that but it sure made me extra sleepy during the day when I took too much initially. After reducing the dose it was fine.

ncmncm5• 7 years ago

There are many kinds of depression all shoveled into the one diagnosis. It's as if malaria, flu, bacterial meningitis, and every other infection were called "ague". (They were, once.)

The only way we know to tell one from another is by what med helps, if any. If none do, it's "non-responsive depression" or some other catch-all. Depression, like schizophrenia and a host of other DSM diagnoses are the DSM's equivalents to "wastebasket taxa" in taxonomy.

People insisting that randomized controlled trials ("RCTs") prove that depression meds, and other psychiatric meds, don't work demonstrate their ignorance of the major failure mode of RCTs: unreliable diagnosis. Given that last, the RCT tells you nothing, positive or negative, absent very careful, detailed deconstruction of individual outcomes.

wolco2• 7 years ago

Two thoughts

GI changes / issues

You don't have enough vit-d to bind with

DoreenMichele10• 7 years ago

maybe some insight that might explain this?

Some thoughts:

1. You may have taken a form of supplement you don't tolerate well. I have trouble with sulfur. A lot of iron supplements are sulfur based. They cause negative side effects for me.

2. In order to be properly absorbed, magnesium needs to be taken with some other things, like calcium, vitamin D and vitamin K. Maybe you weren't absorbing it well because you weren't taking it with these other things.

3. Maybe you have some unidentified genetic quirk that impacts the processing of magnesium.

4. A nutritional approach to addressing health issues is a case of "Things get worse before they get better." A lot of people use the term "healing crisis" to describe this process. If you think you have never heard of such, think again. The best known form of this phenomenon is drug withdrawal.

5. You aren't magnesium deficient, so you were actually causing yourself an overdose of magnesium. There is some other explanation for your depression. Magnesium deficiency is not it.

thorwasdfasdf10• 7 years ago

First of all, check the ratio of calcium to magnesium. A lot of supplement companies put in 2 to 1 ratio of calcium which is incorrect because they're going off the USDA's (big agra influenced) incorrect recommendation.

Most people get too much calcium in the first place. So, you'll want to stick to a supplement that only has magnesium in it. But supplement companies aren't regulated by anyone so, you really need to trust the brand that what they're putting in there is what they say they're putting in there. Because they're so unregulated I wouldn't trust them at all.

Better yet, try some whole foods. The very highest densities of Magnesium are (per calorie): Wheat Bran, Zuchini, Pumpkin Seeds, Hemp Seeds, most beans. Green veggies are also super high but I know most people won't eat a ton of those. So, Cashews are also fairly high in magnesium and delicious. Put Wheat bran in your oatmeal to increase the magnesium content. if you want more ideas, check out: https://kale.world/c (sorry to link to it twice, but that's where i've done all my nutrient density analysis)

sfjailbird• 7 years ago

I take magnesium in the form of trace mineral drops. These are de-salted sea water deposits. Besides magnesium they contain other rare trace minerals which would otherwise be difficult to obtain, particularly lithium which has quite strong evidence of mellowing mood.

The liquid form leads me to believe they absorb well but not sure if that's actually true.

Edit to say I believe these drops have reduced my anxiety and improved relaxation. If nothing else I sleep better due to the mg (no more Jimmy legs).

peteradio• 7 years ago

Where do you find such things?

ehosca• 7 years ago

https://www.amazon.com/Trace-Minerals-Research-Concentrace-M...

ry_ry• 7 years ago

Does the body effectively absorb trace amounts of minerals?

Edit. I'm not implying any homeopathy antics, am genuinely curious.

n10003• 7 years ago

There are different forms to take Mg and they seem to come with different effects and side effects. It may take a while to find one that works.

koboll2• 7 years ago

Tried it briefly and then quit after I realized it was causing excruciating chest pain. Would be nice to have stayed on it to realize the mood effects, but not even close to worth it for me.

dade_• 7 years ago

An excuse to use too much maple syrup! https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5602/2

opportune3• 7 years ago

I see lots of manganese, but you would need to be consuming truly absurd amounts of syrup for the magnesium in maple syrup to amount to much. It says it has 11% of your DV in a cup, which is also 840kcal of mostly sugar

thorwasdfasdf10• 7 years ago

as the other comment stated, there isn't much magnesium in maple syrup. Magnesium is not the same thing as manganese. Furthermore manganese is abundantly available in numerous foods. So much so, that it's extremely unlikely that you need more of it.

less_penguiny• 7 years ago

FWIW Gwern has done some careful self-experiments on magnesium supplementation, finding it wasn't all rosy: https://www.gwern.net/nootropics/Magnesium

aik3• 7 years ago

Magnesium truly does wonders for my sleep but every single person I’ve recommended it to has not had similar results. Like many things I’m sure there’s a significant difference depending on your biochemistry.

DanBC• 7 years ago

Like many things I’m sure there’s a significant difference depending on your biochemistry.

...and placebo effect.

hiram112• 7 years ago

What were your initial sleep issues and how does MG help? Also, do you take it right before bed or is it something that just builds up in increasing effectiveness after taking it daily for weeks / months?

DoreenMichele10• 7 years ago

It's a long read with a lot of data and can be hard to make sense of. Here is the TLDR:

Conclusion

The interpretation which seems to best resolve everything I know about magnesium with the data from my experiment is that magnesium supplementation does indeed help me a large amount, but I was taking way too much.

nestorD• 7 years ago

The couple paragraphs above this citation are also worth reading, in particular:

I find this very troubling. The magnesium supplementation was harmful enough to do a lot of cumulative damage over the months involved, but not so blatantly harmful enough as to be noticeable without a randomized blind self-experiment or at least systematic data collection—neither of which are common among people who would be supplementing magnesium I would much prefer it if my magnesium overdose had come with visible harm (such as waking up in the middle of the night after a nightmare soaked in sweat), since then I’d know quickly and surely, as would anyone else taking magnesium. But the harm I observed in my data? For all I know, that could be affecting every user of magnesium supplements! How would we know otherwise?

marban2• 7 years ago

I'm a cardio addict and do 250mg liquid Citrate and 200mg of Bisglycinate before sleep. Otherwise restless legs syndrome would kick in badly during the night. Sometimes adding 1.000mg of Gaba also helps with recovery and falling asleep.

Just make sure to stay away from cheap Mg Oxide since bio-availability is somewhere in the 4% range and usually comes in Multi-anything pills.

icxa4• 7 years ago

Someone recommended magnesium to help with my migraines (turns out it was an eye imbalance), so it's been sitting in a drawer but I also have a hard time staying asleep, and am wondering if I should crack it back out. I have some stuff called "Natural Vitality" and it is magnesium carbonate 325mg, does this sound decent to you?

marban2• 7 years ago

I've never seen Mg Carbonate in a sport supplement but I usually look for the highest bio-availability and the least laxative effect. Hence, Bisglycinate is my best choice. Usually comes in pills and rarely also (expensive) in liquid shots w/ sweeteners.

joncrane• 7 years ago

I've found that the Citrate works best for me. I don't want to quote a brand but it's a well-known brand that's found in every store in my area that sells vitamins as well as online.

bitL• 7 years ago

I concur with GABA, and for me also sauna works. Mg only together with Ca/D.

beagle3• 7 years ago

If you are still experimenting .... for my RLS, it turned out that B3=Niacin is very helpful, even after onset; And also sufficient iron.

When I take iron in the morning and B3 whenever (morning/day), I don't get RLS.

And important: if you do experiment, I found that only "real" flush-causing B3 works; Not niacinamide/nicotineamide, which apparently has some of the (many) benefits of niacin, though no RLS relief (or flushing). And especially not inositol-hexanicotinate, which I have not found a single reference describing any useful property of (but still gets sold as B3).

koboll2• 7 years ago

Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined grains, in the Western world, harming the brain and causing mood disorders.

This seems to be the case with many such nutrients.

I almost wonder if the most effective solution isn't a medical approach but a medically-informed, government-led incentive program to convince food manufacturers to reintroduce the essential nutrients they strip out of food.

icxa4• 7 years ago

When the US government is in charge of feeding people healthy foods, they came up with the now defunct "Food Pyramid" and school lunch, which featured classic gems like "government cheese", "square pizza" and my favorite, mystery meat "salisbury steak"

ryanmercer• 7 years ago

Woah woah woah, I miss rectangle pizza and 'country fried steak' (maybe decomposing cardboard and ground shoe leather?). It may not have been food but it tasted good.

maroonblazer• 7 years ago

But weren't they simply following the lead of the most widely accepted science at the time? As science has learned more the government recommendations have evolved as well, albeit perhaps not as rapidly or comprehensively as they could.

fifnir2• 7 years ago

When the free market is in charge the results aren't much better, why not have another go at the government approach and learn from our mistakes?

petercooper• 7 years ago

I can't speak for depression, but I was suffering from muscle spasms and tremors last year (both external and internal). Magnesium was suggested, I now take two a day and they have almost entirely dissipated. It certainly wouldn't surprise me that the presence or lack of such substances could have significant effects upon the brain too though I have noticed no changes in that regard.

wrnr• 7 years ago

Same thing here. last year I had an almost constant spasm in my right eyelid, after a cure of magnesium it disappeared. I did not find that it altered my mood, I just happy to be relieved from the spasm.

wiggler00m2• 7 years ago

Why supplement magnesium instead of getting it from dietary sources?

anonu• 7 years ago

You didnt read the article. From the article:

Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined grains, in the Western world,

wiggler00m2• 7 years ago

"Dietary magnesium intake has steadily declined over the preceding century, due to...(b) making dietary choices low in magnesium-rich foods such as whole grains, rice and wheat bran, nuts, seeds, chocolate, peanuts, peanut butter and green leafy vegetables..."

If the root cause is insufficient dietary magnesium -- due to poor dietary choices -- eating foods that are rich in magnesium, and cutting out refined foods, might be a good start. It would have other benefits, too.

I don't like to see people taking tons of supplements whilst eating poorly.

cmbuck2• 7 years ago

You seem to be extrapolating that since refined grains do not contain Mg, no foods do. This is not the case. OP can eat other foods instead of processed grains to obtain Mg.

DoreenMichele10• 7 years ago

If you are self-experimenting to figure out if X nutrient makes a difference, supplements are vastly easier to work with. Dietary changes are far, far more complex and introduce many confounding factors.

If you establish that, yea, verily, magnesium helps, dietary changes to make sure you get enough magnesium can make sense.

I used to take about $300/month worth of supplements of various sorts. I no longer do so and haven't for years. I just note that "Based on x, I need more of thus and such." and tailor my diet to get what I need.

sapilla3• 7 years ago

I found CBD to provide temporary relief - I think my depression was inflammation related. The world is still dark and compressed but also comfortable, like the dark corners fill with algae and the ground with grass.

What ended up working was improving my oral posture and articulation using ortothropics and self-developed speech exercises (the important part is having designed the exercises yourself). Suddenly it's vastly easier to maintain correct spinal alignment and breathing. Depression is just an emotion again.

I supplement fish oil, gradeschool-tier mathematics and meditation, from Vigyan Bhairava Tantra.

Genetikl332• 7 years ago

Can you elaborate on oral posture and articulation? I have a major snoring (apnea) and breathing issue due to dentistry mistakes (taking out teeth when I should not have as a kid) and my face caved in which compresses my breathing. This is my theory at least. I am curious because this is the first time I hear about the concepts you brought up

sapilla3• 7 years ago

The most important thing is to have the tip of your tongue (almost) touching your teeth and then gradually increasing the amount of tongue-to-roof-of-mouth surface, beginning it the front - your current limit is where it blocks nasal breathing. This stimulates horizontal (forwards) bone development vs. vertical (downwards) development.

A "drill" I can recommend is writing out words a defined number of times (pick a number you like between 10 and 100), as you write also pronounce them without letting your tongue lose contact with the roof of your mouth. This may feel very unnatural at first. If you don't like the result just recycle the paper.

There's also the habit of sucking or pulling in your tongue - don't do that. I think it causes jaw clenching. If you want a fast way to get rid of that, invent metaphors for it and then watch yourself do it automatically in social interactions.

Also check out ortothropics, it's the emerging science of facial development through oral posture. They have a large collection of instructional material on YouTube.

curioussavage• 7 years ago

Been having jaw pain for years and have been hearing about neuromuscular dentists and also https://www.myofunctionaltherapists.com/home

Haven’t tried either thing but I hope to soon. In my experience dentists and orthodontists are little help with these kinds of problems.

zackmorris• 7 years ago

There are basically 2 schools of thought on oral health:

1) The establishment/western orthodontics school where teeth are the root of the problem so are moved around or removed in order to achieve flatness in the face profile. Maintaining results might require wearing a retainer for life.

2) The holistic orthotropic approach where misaligned teeth are a symptom of other issues. It emphasizes myofunctional exercises (for tongue and cheek posture), osteopathic adjustment to realign skull sutures, neck posture and breathing exercises to train the body to regulate its CO2 during sleep. The results are permanent since the patient's efforts help drive bone growth in the palate and changes in the jaw joint.

I sucked my thumb until I was 9 which left me with a severe overbite, then had braces and headgear for 8 years as a child (luckily had no teeth removed) but it left my mouth too small. I am a late bloomer, probably 10 years behind my peers. I began weightlifting in my early 20s and basically have a different body type now than I did in adolescence, so my jaw grew and constricted my throat, which caused sleep apnea for at least 10 years. I've been chronically exhausted most of my adult life and didn't know why. That led to poor self image/self esteem and chronic melancholy/depression although I have never been diagnosed or taken medication for it.

I got fitted with an A.L.F. appliance about 9 months ago and the results have been nothing short of miraculous. I'd say my throat has opened by 1/4 inch or more, my skin has cleared up, my eyebrows have grown back, even my digestive issues have improved dramatically. And to top it off, I just look healthier/happier and feel more attractive in public because I used to have a gummy smile with no teeth visible at the sides and a recessed chin (which are the main causes of babyface).

For anyone reading this, I'd be very wary of orthodontic treatment that requires extractions or headgear. Get a second opinion, and opt for a Herbst device, A.L.F. or D.N.A. appliance instead. Invisiline is fine. Also look on youtube for exercises to improve your jawline, such as chin and tongue frenulum stretches. The most important exercise I've found is to keep your tongue suctioned to the roof of your mouth and learn to swallow with it up like that. The constant pressure of the tip of your tongue above your front teeth causes the nerves to stimulate bone growth to provide room for your top teeth. Then the bottom jaw conforms to the top, which can cause the bottom teeth to spread and straighten as well. But really, find a myofunctional therapist because this is only the tip of the iceberg. You can usually train with them remotely.

My theory for why this is not mainstream knowledge is that there is not as much money in a simple wire and holistic treatment/exercises as there is in orthodontics.

cbdSchizo• 7 years ago

Proof that cannabinoids lead to schizophrenic breaks.

sapilla3• 7 years ago

Wherever humor is the enemy, sure.

geggam4• 7 years ago

The entire endocannabanoid system in humans is interesting. If you think about it less than 100 years ago hemp and CBD oil was in our diet. Almost like we evolved with a system for it.

kerkeslager5• 7 years ago

If you think about it less than 100 years ago hemp and CBD oil was in our diet.

If I think about it, I do not come to that conclusion at all. Do you have any evidence for this claim?

aik3• 7 years ago

For anyone here that takes magnesium for sleep, why do you think it works for you?

It works wonders for my sleep but I’ve never met anyone that shares that view.

Devmailo• 7 years ago

Imagine cramps waking you up. Magnesium should prevent them if you have deficiency.

petilon• 7 years ago

The cells in our body depend on two essential minerals for normal function: Calcium and magnesium. Cells go into ON state when calcium goes in, and OFF state when calcium goes out. Calcium doesn't go out on its own: magnesium has to go in and displace the calcium. When you are low on magnesium, cells can't go into OFF state. When that happens your muscles become stiff and you need massages, and your brain can't turn off and you can't sleep.

stevenmays• 7 years ago

Magnesium supplementation changed my life. Better sleep, faster recovery from work outs, better more stable moods

aNoob7000• 7 years ago

How much are you taking daily?

kevstev3• 7 years ago

I started taking magnesium supplements about 9 months ago, not for any depression issues, but more for muscle issues. I had a weird leg muscle injury a few years ago that I never really got a proper diagnosis for that happened when doing some light hiking. In doing my own research on that, a condition similar to my symptoms came up, and one of the causes was a magnesium deficiency. I had a few other minor ailments come up, and I have been biking to work for the last few years, and noticed that my recovery time is significantly longer. All of these things cited magnesium as a significant player, so I bought some supplements.

Anyway, I take about 200mg a day, for about the last 6 months or so, and I can not say I have felt any noticeable improvement. This is obviously just a single data point, but even with some specific symptoms that pointed to an Mg deficiency, I didn't see an improvement. If you feel this is some type of magic solution, you should temper your expectations.

NPMaxwell2• 7 years ago

Great idea to get a work up and find out about any deficiencies in the mix of stuff in your blood.

batter• 7 years ago

If you're playing with magnesium/calcium i think boron should be included as well. It will allow you to utilize magnesium/calcium.

arkades5• 7 years ago

Do you have any sources for that statement? I haven’t read anything to that effect, and I’d be interested in finding out more.

SirensOfTitan2• 7 years ago

What kind of Magnesium are you taking? There’s a huge differential of bioavailability of different magnesium types.

entangledqubit• 7 years ago

People mentioning their experiences here should definitely mention what form they're taking. Magnesium oxide is pretty commonly sold but it doesn't get absorbed very well - to the point where I think it should not be sold at all. I've had good experience with chelated magnesium.

kevstev3• 7 years ago

I don't have the bottle handy with me, being at work, but I do know I did some basic research on this and its "chelated", not sure what exact type it is beyond that.

Agreed though that bioavailability of any nutritional supplement is always a highly debated topic, I see that the article cites a powdered form, other comments have liquid drops.

will_brown• 7 years ago

I also began taking magnesium (a few years ago) for running, not depression.

I probably log 50-80 miles per week and low magnesium levels are notoriously low in endurance athletes. I also follow a ketosis diet for as many as 6 months at a time, low magensium is also common with Keto diet.

I take up to 10 vitamin/mineral supplements, but kind of cycle them at various times. It’s impossible to really pinpoint anything, but I tend to think I personally got great benefits to my running through the addition of fish oil, vitamin B, vitamin D and magnesium. Specifically I feel benefits to both energy and anti-inflammation, at one point I scaled up to a half marathon everyday and was never even sore, whereas previously I’d run maybe 5 times a week and sometimes be stiff the next day following 7 mile runs. It’s definately not magic, these supplements don’t run the miles for me, but I do feel better during the runs, recover better, and it just creates this feedback loop where it feels I am growing/improving.

arkades5• 7 years ago

200mg is a decent bump on average daily intake (360mg), and mag isn’t managed as well as other ions. If you don’t already, please have your doc check your mag levels every couple of months while you do this. Hypermagnesemia is no joke.

sizzle2• 7 years ago

Damn I take tums after every meal and 5 pills of chelated magnesium throughout the day...

tarsinge2• 7 years ago

Anecdotical but for years I had various anxiety and mild depression problems (edit: and various muscle “twitches”). As it was not severe I was always recommended Magnesium. Never had any improvement. Then 2 years ago I started taking vitamin D (thanks to HN discussions) and nearly all my symptoms disappeared (also changed job, started meditation, so the datapoint is not clear but magnesium alone didn't do much).

Also I recommend you get tested for Magnesium as contrary to popular belief (at least here in France) deficiency is not common (contrary to vitamin D).

Felger• 7 years ago

Hello French "brother"

Serum levels of vit D and Magnesium are not reliable indicators. As stated in the study for Magnesium. For Vit D, efficiency of a supplementation of Vit D3 is also not on par with real sun exposure, the skin and subcutaneous fat don't seems to respond the same way.

I sadly did not had any improvement on my side from getting my Vit D level from 15 (which is barely above the deficiency level) to a whooping level of 60 in a few month with Bio-D-Mulsion drops (Vit D3). My mag must be high as I eat a very rich diet in this nutrient, without any dairy from more than a decade now

kevstev3• 7 years ago

I had a physical a few years ago and it was noted that I had a low level of vitamin D. I took supplements for that as well (my first time ever taking a supplement). I actually stopped that after the bottle ran out because I read various things over time that said that Vitamin D deficiency was overstated and that the supplements just gave you expensive piss. I tested fine for all other levels, though I am not sure they covered Magnesium in that test.

Perhaps I could give it another go, with Vitamin D + Magnesium, thus far I just try to drink milk to swallow down the Mg pills and get a bit of Vitamin D in nutrient form.

I am personally very wary of taking supplements, it seems like a dicey business. I wasn't planning on buying another bottle of Magnesium after this one runs out either.

perl4ever• 7 years ago

I'm interested in this, because it was suggested to me that I get tested for Vitamin D deficiency, and apparently I have it. I haven't started any particular supplementation, but I have read that Vitamin D has some connection to calcium absorption. I wonder if it is a good idea to take either calcium or magnesium with a D supplement. I also take medication that I'm told may remove calcium from bones as a side effect.

TheSpiceIsLife• 7 years ago

200mg per day is below the therapeutic range.

The RDA is 350-400mg.

The supplementary range is 300-800mg per day.

Magnesium oxide is useless, orotate, citrate, and diglycinate are far superior.

Refer Henry Osieki’s The Nutrient Bible.

massaman_yams• 7 years ago

From the study: "Useful Mg compounds are those that have a sufficiently low first stability constant to be bioavailable and include magnesium acetate, chloride, citrate, gluconate, glycinate, lactate, malate, oxalate, succinate, sulphate and tartrate (Furia, 1968)."

MichaelMoser123• 7 years ago

Pink Himalayan salt is supposed to be rich in magnesium. I wonder if it contains enough magnesium to make a difference with depression.

NPMaxwell2• 7 years ago

I love this: "The reasons for these findings are not quite clear, but inadequate dietary Mg is prevalent in America and is the most likely cause." Ah, to be publishing in a book, not a journal. And to know that your reviewers are like-minded magnesium lovers. Imagine submitting an article to something like Junior Forensics, the journal of high school debate. You could include something like, "All the factors that lead to success in life are hard to account for; participation in debate is the most influential."

Genetikl332• 7 years ago

Remember that it depends what type of Magnesium you take. Not all are created equal. I recommend Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium. Since taking that one for many years, digestive issues massively improved with slight improvements in sleep and overall mood.

tomhoward• 7 years ago

Another one that may work better for people: magnesium malate.

For some people it can be more easily absorbed than other forms, and the malic acid (which occurs naturally in apples and other fruits) can support the Kreb's cycle that produces mitochondrial energy (which is also linked to mood and general healthy functioning of the body).

opportune3• 7 years ago

The first author has a publication called "zinc lozenges as a cure for the common cold" here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906491 and given that the author has his own "research institute" I'm highly skeptical of this guy's ability to do science. Seems like some kind of crackpot

I mean seriously look at this website: https://m.george-eby-research.com/app/welcome/5310242/36/

okmokmz• 7 years ago

Wow, that website has a lot of red flags. The second line alone, "this is a multi-gigabit sized site," is enough to make me doubt the info on that page. This NYT article from 1995 says he is a "city planner turned self-educated pharmacologist" so I'd be surprised if any of his "research" was properly done or reached accurate conclusions

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/29/business/patents-751395.h...

billman• 7 years ago

FYI, The title of his paper is "Zinc lozenges as cure for the common cold – A review and hypothesis". I haven't read it, but the title seems reasonable.

opportune3• 7 years ago

In the publicly visible abstract it says:

" Zinc lozenges slowly dissolving in the mouth over a 20-30 min period releasing adequate iZn (18 mg) used each 2h are hypothesized to shorten common colds by 6-7 days, which is a cure for the common cold."

ncmncm5• 7 years ago

There is plenty of evidence that zinc has effects on the progress of rhinoviral infections. I don't know of any detailed determination why, but it seems tied up with preferential activation of certain immune system components. People who respond well to zinc treatments often report immediate dizziness after remarkably small doses, when taken as cold symptoms are emerging.

They used to sell a gel that, it turned out, caused permanent loss to sense of smell if snorted (against pkg instructions, but who read those?). Now you find lozenges, which seem to work about as well.

joshgel• 7 years ago

Medical view: Magnesium is one of the most ordered tests in the hospital setting. Definitely in top 10 most places, probably top 5. Almost certainly over ordered. We have tons of data from which to draw conclusions. Not that we can assume that just because the data is there it has already been studied, but if there was a true signal there it would be very easy to study and I’d be surprised if it hadn’t been.

Very few otherwise healthy people have low magnesium levels. The reasons are usually related to severe kidney dysfunction, severe malnutrition, certain blood cancers/blood disorders, alcohol abuse (also because of malnutrition), and being on diuretics.

Tharkun2• 7 years ago

I was under the impression that it was really hard to detect magnesium deficiency in bloodwork, because most of it is either supposed to be in our bones or cells, so a blood test doesn't paint a complete picture of total Mg stores.

azeotropic2• 7 years ago

He may be a crackpot, and this book is not a well-written summary of the literature, but the idea of magnesium levels influencing depression is not a crackpot idea.

Magnesium is a cofactor for the enzymes that convert tryptophan into serotonin. Most of the body's serotonin is synthesized in the gut, where it helps control the muscles that move the bowels. (I assume this is why magnesium salts act as laxatives).

Magnesium is also implicated in other serotonin related disorders (e.g. Migraine).

Even broken clocks are right twice a day.

adrianmonk2• 7 years ago

I assume this is why magnesium salts act as laxatives

This is a side issue, but apparently it's a different reason.

From https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Magnesium-HealthProfession... : "The diarrhea and laxative effects of magnesium salts are due to the osmotic activity of unabsorbed salts in the intestine and colon and the stimulation of gastric motility."

Ice_cream_suit• 7 years ago

Good old fashioned crackpot science...

Nasrudith• 7 years ago

I have some personal experiences to share - anecdotal and not that scientific.

I found it slightly helpful in my own treatment of depression. Not a miracle cure - it was suggested essentially because Proton Pump Inhibitors I am already on were known to worsen/cause it. In my case it seems to make medication a bit more effective and helped thinking a little bit. A few times when I ran out for a week or so waiting for the next bulk order to arrive it eventually caused a mild worsening of mood that went away when resumed. I don't know if I ever actually had deficiencies because needle phobia has meant avoidance such that I can only list my blood type as a question mark.

DoreenMichele10• 7 years ago

The onset of depression has greatly increased in incidence, and it is affecting people much earlier in their lives during the late 20th century and early 21st century than before the 20th century (Meyer and Quenzar, 2005). The reasons for these findings are not quite clear, but inadequate dietary Mg is prevalent in America and is the most likely cause. There is probably a real increase in depression, coupled with a change in diagnostic habits, which has to do with the element of stigma. Lower stigma leads to a higher rate of diagnosis.

Somatopsychic medical effects are very real. I've gotten very good results with addressing nutritional deficiencies as a first line of defense for issues that often present as mood or mental health issues.

But I don't think you can reasonably conclude that magnesium deficiency is The explanation for increased prevalence of depression in a world that has had so many profound changes.

Things are more crowded. Most people now live in cities instead of rural environments. Among other things, this means people are subjected to much noisier conditions.

We have far, far better information about the world than we used to. The 24/7 news cycle is incredibly stressful, if only because most "news" is bad news.

There are just so very many confounding factors, no, you can't reasonably conclude that this one singular factor is the sole explanation or primary explanation. That's ridiculous.

balabaster2• 7 years ago

I would wager it's a combination of factors:

1. In general, the north american diet is disgraceful.

2. Consumerism and brainwashing people into believing that they can only be happy when they achieve X, Y or Z, does nothing for people's emotional emptiness.

3. The constant barrage of shit news, most of which is largely irrelevant to most of our lives, most of the time.

4. The constant threat of automation and off-shoring meaning that people never feel secure about their income stream unless they specifically work in an industry where their ability to generate their income stream is unrelated to these constant threats.

5. Inflation of living costs escalating at a rate beyond inflation of income.

6. The polarization making people feel isolated from one another instead of connected. Nobody can talk about anything any more without fear of offending someone, being politically incorrect, being ostracized or vilified.

7. The reported growing financial disparity where the 2% have 98% of the wealth while the 98% share the other 2% and the constant message that it's only going to get harder to be able to cross that chasm.

8. Corporations subverting politics for their own profits instead of the good of the people.

The list goes on ad nauseum.

I firmly believe if the world stops behaving like assholes, learns to eat properly and talks to one another to a level that find connection instead of a divide. The depression is just going to get worse and worse until suicide becomes an epidemic.

DoreenMichele10• 7 years ago

I would add at least two more that I think are huge and largely overlooked most of the time:

a. Loss of a sense of community and the very real practical support that provides with moving from small town/rural to big city life for most people.

b. "Sick building syndrome" which I think is far, far more widespread than is generally recognized. Among other things, indoor air quality is crap more often than not.

pmoriarty2• 7 years ago

Something else to consider is that a lot of people live in food deserts, where no nutritional food is available or affordable. People who live in such food deserts often have low incomes, so they really don't have a choice but to have a really awful diet. Richer people tend to have greater, more convenient choices of nutritional food, and the wealth to afford it.

Add to that the fact that many people in the US work insanely long hours in unfulfilling or even demeaning work, little free time to spend with their families, on leisure, or to recover from burnout, possibly mounting medical and credit card bills, little hope for a secure retirement, their children at risk of violence in schools and few prospects when (or if) they graduate. Add in the media which worships wealth, fame, and appearances, and you have almost a sure fire recipe for depression.

It's really a wonder more people aren't depressed.

thorwasdfasdf10• 7 years ago

There have been a number of experiments where they gave patients more magnesium, and in response most patients reduce their depression by a statistically significant amount. The inverse was found when they gave them calcium (more calcium increases depression). It's all about the ratio of calcium to magnesium. We're a society that consistently gets way too much calcium and way too little magnesium. That's because our food source isn't diverse. Dairy is considered a food group here in the US, and almost everything in it comes from Milk, is primarily made up of milk. Milk is very unbalanced in terms of Calcium to magnesium, something like 10 to 1 ratio.

Also, there was another study where they found that treatments for depression actually increased serum magnesium levels in the brain.

EDIT: Here is the study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507265/# "A dietary supplement of 500mg calcium immediately and severely worsened MD, which was extinguishable within one hour by orally treating with 400mg gel capsules of Mg as magnesium glycinate "

nradov3• 7 years ago

Which specific studies were those?

tempguy9999• 7 years ago

There have been a number of experiments where they gave patients more magnesium, and in response most patients reduce their depression by a statistically significant amount

Can you link to those studies please?

more calcium increases depression

now that really is curious. Again, do you have a link? TIA

DoreenMichele10• 7 years ago

I stated up front that somatopsychic effects are quite real. I don't doubt that a magnesium deficiency is a culprit in depression for many people.

But are you arguing that, yea, verily, this article's foundational assumption is true and correct: Magnesium deficiency is the sole or prime cause of all (or virtually all) modern depression?

If so, I think you need to back that up with a whole lot more than a paragraph or two about things you've read, like a long list of citations that not only show the role magnesium plays, but also another long list of citations that affirmatively excludes myriad other potential causes of Major Depression that are generally understood to be contributing factors.

hcarvalhoalves• 7 years ago

Read the entire article. It also talks about the increased Mg excretion effect of stress hormones.

It’s a combination of lower intake of what already is a micronutrient, increased excretion (consequence of the lifestyle changes), and hard to diagnose (because serum Mg levels stay stable, only cellular Mg reserves are depleted).

I had a couple neurological issues in the past and had a good endocrinologist suggest me Mg (quelated) and he explained all that is mentioned on the article.

mnorton• 7 years ago

I have heard folks say one of the best ways to absorb magnesium is an empsom salt bath. Not sure if there is "science" on this, but hear it is one of the great benefits of a float tank.

afo• 7 years ago

Agreed. I float 2-4x/month and can confirm that I sleep way better and generally have an increase in mood. I'd highly recommend it.

kerkeslager5• 7 years ago

There are two huge confounding issues here which make it impossible for me to conclude that Mg has an effect of depression based on the studies I've seen:

1. Magnesium may treat anxiety rather than depression. This is analogous to various SSRIs which arguably treat anxiety better than depression[1]. Anxiety and depression are highly comorbid, and both doctors and patients may be bad at differentiating between the symptoms, leading to "I feel better"-type reporting. This might mean that Mg supplementation is a good thing for depressed people because it treats their anxiety, not because it treats their depression. This alternative hypothesis is particularly compelling because magnesium deficiency has a variety of well-understood effects on muscle tension[2] which mimic physical symptoms of anxiety.

2. Magnesium is frequently supplemented concurrently with vitamin D, vitamin K, calcium, and zinc. All of these are known to be active in humans, and vitamin D in particular has been correlated with depression and seasonal affective disorder.

[1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/ssris-an-update/ (see under the bolded "fourth" comment--SSC has a bunch of posts on this topic).

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_deficiency#Diagnosis

jeffdavis• 7 years ago

Is Mg normally tested in blood tests? Seems like you could just read the results, and if low take supplements; if not, don't.

cmbuck2• 7 years ago

"Since 99% of Mg is intracellular, serum Mg testing of the remaining 1% found in serum will produce misleading results (Mann and Truswell, 2002) and it should not be used in future research."

Elsewhere in the article they reference testing being of "negative utility"

55555• 7 years ago

Am I the only person that magnesium makes feel, well, dumber? Pretty much everything that's anxiolytic or GABAnergenic makes me feel dumber (along with nicely relaxed).

_ywdj3• 7 years ago

"Deficits of Mg may result from inadequate intake, malabsorption, or renal loss"

Unless I missed it, the paper didn't consider another possible cause of magnesium deficiency: depression.

I.e., the paper seems to conflate correlation with causation (i.e., magnesium deficiency may cause depression), and doesn't consider that the causality may go in the other direction: that magnesium deficiency is a physiological manifestation of depression and other types of chronic negative emotion.

My experience with this is that I've worked for a long time to address chronic illness that has included conditions like depression, anxiety and chronic fatigue syndrome.

One of the many things I've tried has been to substantially increase magnesium intake, both via food sources and supplements.

My measured magnesium levels didn't change simply by increasing intake.

What has made a difference was directly addressing the emotional and outer-life causes of my depression/anxiety.

Even then it took a while, and the work/improvement is still ongoing, but it's very clear that my magnesium readings stayed low even when supplementing, and only started rising after a solid stretch of deep emotional healing work and significant improvements to life circumstances.

The still-nascent and controversial topic of epigenetics may be relevant here.

comboy2• 7 years ago

Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests? Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your body state.

Correlation is not causation but what HN readers should remember is that most researchers are aware of that fact.

So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages, especially given that results of treatment are mentioned in the abstract.

_ywdj3• 7 years ago

Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests?

No, hair tests. Which I dread talking about in forums like this as it can be a red cloth to motivated skeptics/cynics (of which I used to be one until I was blessed with the opportunity to endure this experience), but the results have been consistent with my experienced-symptoms over a long period of time (10 years so far), and the correlation with my emotional work and subjective mood/life experience has been clear.

Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your body state

Yes, that's hair tests are used for this type of healing work.

So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages

I wish you would take more of a good-faith approach to the discussion and point to where this is mentioned.

I read over the abstract as thoroughly as I could for evidence that they properly considered this.

I can see mention of the observation that magnesium levels seemed to respond to antidepressants, but it still seems to assume that the cause is physiological, and that any mood-change is an effect not a cause/influence.

Nothing I can find in the abstract suggests that depression-causing-magnesium-deficiency was considered, studied and disproven, yet such possibilities are often raised in other circles, and it aligns with my own experience (and available evidence).

Please understand that people like myself and a few others on HN, who have been trying to share perspectives like these for many years, get rather tired of reflexive dismissals, despite having done vast amounts research and experimentation/data-collection.

lordgrenville• 7 years ago

People that rely on desalinated water can become magnesium deficient. There was a study in Israel about a rise in heart attacks based on magnesium deficiency from desalination. [1] I wonder if there might be a mental health angle to this as well.

[1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/deficiencies-in-desalinated-wa...

taneq• 7 years ago

Hmm, the city I live in has been mixing in more and more desalinated water in the last few years...

chillytoes• 7 years ago

I first read about magnesium supplements in a random Hacker News comment a year ago. Taking them cured my insomnia. If anyone thinks they might benefit from Mg, I definitely encourage you to do the research.

debt• 7 years ago

I don't get it, why do I so regularly see these random solutions to depression on the homepage? Are startup founders really depressed or something? Is there a rash of suicides in this community? I don't get it.

Overwhelmingly, normal-ass anti-anxiety, SSRs, and therapy is to be the best form of treatment. Pumping your body full of magnesium is a hack that falls in to the bucket of exercise or sleeping more.

If you're scared about going to the doctor and getting prescribed, that's one thing. But mainlining crushed up magnesium vitamins to fix your depression is a complete lack of understanding of depression.

Magnesium is not treatment. Mushrooms and Ketamine is not treatment. Get actual treatment.

thorwasdfasdf10• 7 years ago

I hope this issue gets more attention. We're so undernourished when it comes to Magnesium. Also, closely related is Calcium. Calcium and Magnesium work closely together in the body for huge number of functions related to brain health. Of particular importance is the ratio of calcium to magnesium. A Significant portion of the population has their calcium to magnesium ratio way too high, something like 10 to 1 or higher. This is not only due to too little magnesium but also due to way too much calcium. It's not commonly known in the US (because big food companies run the USDA recommendations), but you're only supposed to get 500mg of calcium a day, not 1000mg like the USDA recommends. There are so many studies that show that 1400mg+ is approaching a danger zone. this is exacerbated by unusually low magnesium levels.

If you're looking to get more magnesium into your body, I'd recommend whole foods rather than supplements. Supplements are often not absorbed by the body. Whole foods high in magnesium include: leafy greens, nuts (especially cashews), oatmeal, whole grains, beans. and if you want to find more high nutrient foods try my nutrient based food search: https://kale.world/c (put the selector on magnesium)

nradov3• 7 years ago

How significant is that portion? Have there been any large scale clinical studies recently on calcium and magnesium levels in the population?

Please cite your sources regarding the recommended calcium intake.

thorwasdfasdf10• 7 years ago

WHO (World Health organization) says 500mg.

thorwasdfasdf10• 7 years ago

way too much calcium (>1400) causes many problems like calcification of the arteries and heart disease, etc

Here's another article link: https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/dangers-of-too-muc... https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f228

pmoriarty2• 7 years ago

An unusual but effective way of taking magnesium is taking epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) baths. This way, the magnesium is absorbed through the skin, so one does not have to worry about possibly not absorbing it through the stomach when taking supplements orally.

Aardwolf• 7 years ago

Just another mineral you need enough from to add to the list... It'd be useful to have permanent monitoring of your body to know which ones you have too much and too little from imho

qwsxyh• 7 years ago

It feels like internet people legitimately believe dietary changes can cure every single disease sometimes.

whenchamenia• 7 years ago

Considering how many diseases are caused by lack of, or an excess of specific coumpounds, they are often right. Disease does not always refer to virus/bacteria caused malaides.

kazinator• 7 years ago

Interesting. Maybe, eat more green leafies? Magnesium is what makes plants green (as the center atom in the organo-metallic molecule known as chlorophyll).

mntmoss• 7 years ago

I just started magnesium again after a month or so off the stuff. I have the bottle right here in fact...

What I originally got it for was percieved joint pains in the morning jogging routine I had just started. I seemed to get some results but wanted to do an A/B, and while I don't have lab results to correlate, I did start noticing some joint issues again by the end. So we'll see where I stand after a week.

nate_meurer• 7 years ago

I'll add my own story to the anecdata: my young daughter suffered from chronic constipation for years, nearly her whole life in fact. About two years ago I started her on magnesium supplementation, and within two days the constipation stopped. It has only returned once, on vacation when I had neglected to bring the magnesium with us.

The supplementation is simple and rudimentary. I add epsom salt to the tea that we drink as a family each morning. The dosage ends up at about 90 mg of elemental magnesium per day for her. From what I've read this is below the accepted therapeutic dose, but the I believe the cessation of her constipation is unlikely to be a coincidence.

Magnesium and major depression (2011)

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