Tesla Model 3 Effect – Chevy Dealers Discount 2019 Bolt by Almost $10k

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/tesla-model-3-effect-chevy-dealers-discount-2019-bolt-electric-vehicles-almost-10000-race-bottom-market

by jseliger • 7 years ago

173 139 7 years ago

torquenews.com

BrentOzar• 7 years ago

The cause and effect here makes no sense. The authors say one reason for the discount is the Tesla Model 3 is selling at $36,200, but "Tesla hasn't actually delivered any yet at that price point" (article quote, not mine) and that's why Chevy needs to discount the Bolt to $18,995.

That's like saying wireless chargers on Amazon have to discount down to $13.99 because Apple promised to sell the AirPower someday. Those two things are just unrelated: it might be plain old supply and demand.

My guess: Chevy has to discount the Bolt because it's simply not selling that well. They already had to discontinue the Volt, their plug-in hybrid.

kmonsen• 7 years ago

Bolt is getting outdated, and I think for example the Kona EV is more competition. And I don't really see any good reason to get the Bolt.

brianwawok3• 7 years ago

At 10k off, it might be a fine EV grocery getter. Right now a lot of people buy 4-5 year old leafs for like ~10k as EV grocery getters

madengr6• 7 years ago

Why would it be outdated? It has 200+ miles range.

rayiner• 7 years ago

Also, the cars are competing in completely different markets. A better reference might be that a base 2019 leaf is now $23,000 or so with tax credit: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/nissan/leaf/2019/2019-nissan....

slg3• 7 years ago

"Tesla hasn't actually delivered any yet at that price point" (article quote, not mine)

The article is wrong. The first $35k models started being delivered a couple weeks back.

CarVac• 7 years ago

The article is also dated from April 1… which makes it a little out of date on top of being suspect in other ways.

symlinkk• 7 years ago

Yeah but a couple weeks after that Tesla changed the trims you could get and made the cheapest one $39.5k.

bwanab• 7 years ago

I'm not sure it makes no sense. I bought a Model 3 because I didn't see enough of a price difference to be worth the difference in the cars. I would have been willing to go with a less capable car if I'd felt the price was right. When I was evaluating, a tricked out Bolt was over $40,000 and still wasn't as capable as a Model 3 which was admittedly more expensive but, to me, worth it.

PButtNutter• 7 years ago

I think it's maybe more likely a result of car sales being down in general. Nisan light vehicle sales are down 7.8% (~35,000 vehicles) when comparing the first 4 months of 2018 to the first 4 months of 2019.

https://www.autonews.com/sales/sales-fall-saar-dips-1641-mil...

throwaway55554• 7 years ago

How do you get people to read your article about Chevy? Mention Tesla.

lostmsu• 7 years ago

Here I applaud Chevrolet for being ingenious. Tesla PR techniques literally cost people lifes.

dragontamer8• 7 years ago

Heh, worked on me. So I can't really complain about the strategy. Still, it is annoying clickbait.

throwaway57525• 7 years ago

They discontinued the Volt because they closed the only plant that built it (Lordstown). That also included the Cruze, the Impala, two Cadillacs, and a Buick.

csours2• 7 years ago

Almost - Lordstown only built the Cruze. Detroit Hamtramck builds the others.

Disclaimer: I work for GM

Shivetya• 7 years ago

The Volt was built in Sterling Heights Michigan. It was discontinued because California changed the rules on ZEV credits to where PHEVs were not competitive anymore. I owned a 2017 and it was a great car and EV driving behavior led me to buy a TM3.

The REAL Tesla effect, TM3 if you want, is that the Bolt exists as a two hundred mile plug EV at all. I seriously doubt Chevrolet would have pushed so hard to rework the Spark EV into the Bolt if not for two reasons. First being the PR win over Tesla and second to score more ZEV credits which after 2017 year (2018+) rewarded EVs more points than other solutions.

I like the exterior of the Bolt but hate the interior, from dash to front seats. It is not a purpose built EV and while the packaging is good it could have been better.

GM's mention that future EVs would be around Cadillac were disappointing and there has been zero hint that they will refresh or tweak the current Bolt which is also disappointing.

sgustard• 7 years ago

I look forward to the day when there are enough EV models that it's not assumed all EVs are interchangeable. You wouldn't see an article suggesting that BMW 330i sales are cannibalizing Honda Civics.

benj111• 7 years ago

If the 330i were the same price as the Civic, then wouldn't that be possible? Although it may be difficult to establish cause and effect.

I think it's more the case that EV pricing is in flux at the moment, so you get situations like this where 2 cars from different segments were priced the same.

drb91• 7 years ago

I thought the primary advantage tesla cars have over others is the charging network—these cars are already easily differentiated.

I’m also sure people are enthused about quality and self driving but that doesn’t do much for me.

URSpider94• 7 years ago

You would if BMW suddenly started selling the 330i for only a couple thousand dollars more than the Civic.

dragontamer8• 7 years ago

My guess: Chevy has to discount the Bolt because it's simply not selling that well. They already had to discontinue the Volt, their plug-in hybrid.

All auto-companies are showing declining sales. Ford, GM, Toyota, and Tesla.

I think your supposition here is most correct. The car market is declining, so the various car companies are now cutting prices and competing on price even more strongly. Some car models will be cut out and discontinued as a result.

close04• 7 years ago

Cars are more and more reliable so people can hang on to them for longer. We're also at a milestone, crossing from ICEs to EVs and this may discourage people from actually committing to a new car.

vondur2• 7 years ago

I think one of the issues is that the average price of cars has risen so much. I was watching some financial podcast/guru person who had noted that the average car payment is now $550/month with a 69 month term for the loan.

mandeepj• 7 years ago

All auto-companies are showing declining sales

Maybe, due to ride-sharing companies - Uber and Lyft?

gordon_freeman• 7 years ago

One of the big concerns for buying an electric car for someone like me is the range anxiety and not practical enough if I could not take it to long drives (SF to LA for ex). Tesla has actually solved this problem on 3 fronts: having its own charging n/w around the majority of US highways, having more energy efficient batteries that can drive to 300+ miles on a single charge, and making the charging process speedier with superchargers. Until other car manufacturers do this, I am not convinced to buy anything except a Tesla.

myself2482• 7 years ago

That's just it. My daily commute is quite normal, easily within the range of a Leaf or whatever, but I also enjoy frequent roadtrips to Chicago, Cleveland, Dayton, Toronto, occasionally Kansas City or Washington DC. Most of those are weekend jaunts, but there are longer trips too – I drove to Eagle Harbor last summer and Orlando over the holidays. I’ll probably drive to NYC this summer, as I have in 4 of the last 10 years. I love roadtrips and consider them a wonderful part of the American experience.

The standard EV-evangelist response to this is “take the train” or “rent a car for the weekend”, but I’m sorry, those just aren’t comfortable for me – the train lacks the freedom and sense of adventure, and rentals usually smell funny, among other things. Altering my lifestyle to suit the car’s limitations means it was the wrong car in the first place: The car should serve me, not the other way around. The Tesla’s longer range and presence of Supercharger stations along the routes are totally irrelevant for my daily commute, but they completely change the game when you include my other driving.

With any other EV, I would need a second car to address the other part of my usage, and that means twice the insurance, twice the registration cost, twice the driveway-space, and the chance of forgetting something important in the one car while I’m using the other. And feeling like a glutton for owning an “extra” vehicle.

That being said, I still haven't bought a Tesla for a handful of reasons, but nothing else even comes close to meeting my needs.

joshlittle2• 7 years ago

I did a lot of research when I went EV shopping. So many considerations!

For high speed DC Charging for trips, Tesla definitely got this right the first time; and still has the advantage for now. They’ve been the best for long road trips. That advantage is narrowing.

CCS or Chademo (the high speed charging standards everyone else use) equipment are catching up fast, being deployed in a similar fashion along interstates by Volkswagen; through their “electrify America” subsidiary.

And EVgo and Chargepoint have been extremely focused on Whole Foods, Walmart, Local Shopping malls, parking garages, etc.

I live in San Francisco and mostly drive my car in the Bay Area, with a few long trips here and there. I wanted to make sure that all my use cases were covered. I did a lot of homework.

I noticed that in San Francisco proper, not a single supercharger for Tesla has been opened yet - the nearest one is in Daly City. Anything available in SF currently is slower “destination charging.”

Seems that if one has the convenience of garage charging at home or charging at work, get a Tesla M3. One won’t need an abundance of superchargers available to them unless on road trips. Local coverage will be less important.

If one will be proudly parking their new Tesla M3 mostly on the street, can’t charge at work, and Will have to rely solely on public infrastructure, making sure there is a supercharger nearby that can fit into one’s routine is crucial.

In San Francisco, M3 owners will have to get used to shopping at Serramonte Center in Daly City until the San Francisco supercharger opens. The queue can be a pretty long from what my friend tells me, but they do have a nice Target.

One can charge a Tesla M3 at any low speed AC level 2 charger with the Tesla supplied J1772A adapter - adds about 11 to 30 miles of range every hour. These are pretty ubiquitous at this point.

In a pinch I am comforted by the ease of DC Fast charging everywhere; CCS on my Bolt EV gives me that. Since I know I can charge In all corners of SF and the Bay Area at high-speed, anxiety is nonexistent.

I maybe go on long trips (Los Angeles, etc.) only every six months or so with my Bolt EV. That’s been a pretty easy experience so far. Lots of ccs/chademo charging on 101 and 99. The 5 is getting up to speed as well. More importantly the daily convenience factor locally is key for me.

If one buys a Tesla model S or X, this problem can be alleviated with a $450 ChaDemo adapter; and can charge pretty much anywhere - Tesla Supercharger or not. This is probably ideal. Note this adapter is not compatible with the m3.

I would love a Model S if I could justify it. I would consider a long range model 3 when it DC fast charge on non Tesla hardware in the US. (European M3 have this connection instead of the supercharger connection.)

99% of the time I get by with overnight charging at home. Doing my “Buying an electric vehicle” homework suggested I take a look at my local Charging infrastructure by downloading the PlugShare app. Knowing what’s available where I usually go really made it easy to integrate EVs into my routine.

lowdose• 7 years ago

According to Elon the model 3 will have a ROI of 200k if customers decide to participate in the robotaxi fleet. So it could be that this 10k is the robotaxi discount.

TuringNYC• 7 years ago

Not saying Model 3s are vapourware, but this is a pretty common result of exciting promised releases on competitors.

thrill• 7 years ago

This is no particular surprise. The BMW i3 is being discounted about the same. The real takeaway of the article to me is that "Tesla hasn't actually delivered any yet at that price point" (the $35K Model 3). Tesla's cash starved, as has been discussed here, and that could easily push any such deliveries far down the road. The industry shakeouts will be interesting to watch.

colordrops• 7 years ago

Except they are selling the 35k model.

danmg• 7 years ago

Delivery is prioritized by price paid. The only way to get delivery on a tesla model 3 is to add every option which can basically double the cost of the car.

kylec• 7 years ago

I suspect this has more to do with losing the federal subsidy than competition from Tesla

cwt137• 7 years ago

I agree.

make3• 7 years ago

I'd really like to give the Bolt a chance, but isn't the Chevy Bolt's design really unappealing? Especially compared to the Tesla model 3. I wonder why they made it this way. It's a matter of personal taste but I find it less appealing than even a Honda Civic.

GiorgioG2• 7 years ago

There's a single Model 3 in my neighborhood and I don't understand the appeal aesthetically.

I'm glad there are so many adopters for EVs (Tesla or otherwise) willing to put up with all the downsides until the technology and infrastructure matures to a point where it is competitive (price, charge time, range, charging station at every gas station, etc.)

newsoul20194• 7 years ago

Where do you live? There's 1 or 2 in every driveway around here (South Bay)

newsoul20194• 7 years ago

The Bolt is a cute, small car. I don't think the Tesla Model 3 is trying to be a "cute small car", per se. I know several people with Volts and Bolts and the owners love those cars.

drewg123• 7 years ago

I think they did it to avoid competing with themselves. Before we bought our Telsa in 2017, we test drove a Bolt. The sales people tried really hard to steer us toward a Volt (which was more expensive). It seemed clear they were not really interested in selling the Bolt.

Speaking of the design: On the drive, we noticed that the seats in the Bolt were narrow and uncomfortable. The odd thing was that they had plenty of room to make the seats a few inches wider. Doug DeMuro noticed the same thing in his review: https://youtu.be/d2ogGZXmepY?t=624

WorldMaker2• 7 years ago

I blame American suburbs, where you "need" the most tank-like hideous box on wheels of an SUV or "cross-over" that you can find.

tzs• 7 years ago

The Tesla looks better from the outside, perhaps...but when I'm driving I'm not looking at the exterior, and I'm sufficiently misanthropic that I don't care what ugliness I'm subjecting people outside to. :-)

I've never been inside either car, but looking at interior pictures on the net, the Bolt looks a lot better. It looks like it still has physical knobs for things like climate control. Tesla appears to be all virtual controls.

The lack of physical controls is close to a deal breaker for me.

madengr6• 7 years ago

GM better have something up their sleeve. With the plant closings to divert $ to electric and driverless R&D, I have not read of any new EV models or AI progress.

brokensegue2• 7 years ago

GM owns a large piece of Cruise

DeonPenny2• 7 years ago

They own all of cruise

devy2• 7 years ago

I would argue that $10k Chevy Bolt discount wasn't originated from the pressure of Model 3's pricing and some low moving EV models have long been getting significant discounts off MSRP.

Back in 2017 when the first Bolt model year came out, I've got $4k cash offer mailer from GM and another stackable $5k off MSRP from a large regional GM volume dealership.

And Nissan Leaf have been having $10k off MSRP discounts that are subsidized by regional power utilities too.

This is a common trend way before $35k Model entered volume production.

madengr6• 7 years ago

Maybe you are in the KC area. KCP&L had $10k rebates in Leafs. I was going to buy a new one, but the dealers were total assholes, jacking up the prices to compensate for the rebate.

I ended up buying a used one. I’ll buy a Tesla next, or another used, just to not deal with scumbag dealerships.

devy2• 7 years ago

I live in Northern NJ. PSE&G did that $10k off MSRP for LEAF too a couple years ago.

Robotbeat2• 7 years ago

Speaking personally, this is pretty straightforward.

Why would I buy a Chevy Bolt for the same price as a Model 3, even if I have to buy it "off menu"? (And deliveries have started, BTW: https://electrek.co/2019/04/15/tesla-delivers-35000-model-3/) Or slightly more for the more available Standard Plus Model 3?

The Bolt is wonderful, but it's limited to 50kW charging and even more important it has no access to a consistent, strategically placed network of well-maintained chargers spanning the continent. Basically, the Bolt is still a city commuter which cannot feasibly take road trips of any significant length (outside of charging corridors in the Northeast and West coast), not too different from a Leaf, functionally.

At least with the Volt, you could still take road trips the same as any other car.

(And all of this ignores the panoramic glass roof, the autopilot features, the superior cosmetics, the improved per-mile efficiency, etc, etc.)

And yes, GM is in the same situation as Tesla, having the federal EV credit phased out. And that's a major shame. GM, with the Volt in particular, was a major pioneer in modern electric cars, along with Tesla. And now both are being almost punished for their foresight and initiative. Shows how very little the Congress/Administration/federal government currently values emissions reductions or even rational industrial policy... China very likely may end up owning the EV market.

newsoul20194• 7 years ago

> no access to a consistent, strategically placed network of well-maintained chargers spanning the continent.

Isn't that called "Chargepoint"?

Robotbeat2• 7 years ago

Not in my experience, no. I own two electric cars (a gen 1 Leaf with DC fast charge and a gen 1 Volt).

toomuchtodo2• 7 years ago

The Chargepoint network is woefully inadequate (both locations and charge speed, anything capable of less than 120kw-150kw might as well be a 120V outlet) compared to Tesla's Supercharger network. Electrify America's network is still in its infancy (and you can't charge a Tesla on it yet until CCS adapters are available).

I travel cross country in the US frequently on the Supercharger network (Model S), without any range anxiety or fear of getting to an inoperable station late at night with little battery range left. Many hotels also have destination chargers, so I can charge overnight at the hotel while I sleep and leave with a full charge. I could not do this with any other EV.

m4632• 7 years ago

Here's my experience with various charging networks:

- EVGO is excellent. They have L3 (chademo/sae) chargers in lots of locations, and they work. I believe they own the chargers. The chargers seem to be 400v/100a = 40kw.

- Chargepoint is very good. They have reliable chargers, just not many L3 chargers. Most of their chargers are L2 (~6kw). I don't think they own chargers, or they own only some of them. But they are reliable and/or have good service.

- Blink has always disappointed me - L3 is unreliable and always broken. Some L2 chargers work.

plugshare is your friend.

Theodores• 7 years ago

From how you put it I think the analogy that resonates for me is from the world of mp3 players. Remember how Apple brought out the iPod with iTunes? You knew it was expensive and that there were cheaper and 'just as good' mp3 players out there but they all missed the mark. Even when Apple brought out the screenless (and useless) Shuffle thing nobody was buying Kodak's MC3 mp3 player with built in camera and speaker, even if it was a pretty good product.

Apple weren't out of the woods when the iPod came out, they weren't really making money. Kodak's revenue dwarfed that of Apple. Same with Sony, better known for audio products at the time.

I think your analysis of China taking control of the EV market is correct. China has a better culture for innovation and an extremely competitive domestic market. Whatever survives that will be something that legacy U.S. auto makers will not be able to compete against. Cheaper wages has nothing to do with it, lower environmental standards will have nothing to do with it, neither will patents. In China they have robotised factories making robots, these robots will be making our cars.

kozak• 7 years ago

And that's at the time when people in Europe want to buy the Bolt for a much, much higher price, and cannot.

Pxtl2• 7 years ago

Wait, locally discounted? Is that still how this works? Seriously, are cars still being sold where the price varies in those crazy ways? Because those things are sold for over $33,000 USD in Canada ($44,800 CAD). A quick check on car search shows dealers in Canada pricing the thing at $47,000 CAD ($35,000 USD)

xnyan• 7 years ago

Car makers and dealers learned a long time ago that consumers have wide access to the invoice price of a car (theoretically this is the price at "cost" which the car dealer pays) and have taken steps to obfuscate this with various fees, kickbacks, sales bonus programs and volume sales agreements such that you can't be sure how much margin is really in a car besides looking at the range of actual sales rates of the car.

This is the norm and always has been as far as I am aware. If you are buying a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord or other popular, value oriented (lower margin) car then there may be less wiggle room in the sticker, but for a car with an MSRP around 40k there's probably a fair amount of room to change the price.

Also, a car that never sells makes $0 in revenue. People tend to buy cars with their heart and the cool factor/brand value of a Tesla 3 is orders of magnitude higher than almost anything chevy makes.

Pxtl2• 7 years ago

Yes, but electrics don't stay on the lot either way. These cars all get waiting lists when they launch.

dmode2• 7 years ago

I just bought a Model 3 yesterday. This is my second Tesla and I think it is actually better than my S and a whole 30K cheaper. This car cost me 37k after Fed tax credit, but still comes with Nav, premium audio, autopilot, tons of bells and whistles and safety feature. It is a no brainer - it is the best car in the market right now (yeah, I am biased)

warp_factor2• 7 years ago

did you even try the bolt? It would have been 10k less than yours, and based on the review not that far away in term of comfort//performance etc.

But I bet you didn't, because you don't really care. you wanted a Tesla because it's a hype car.

DeonPenny2• 7 years ago

you can look at the bolt inside and reviews and see it's not close.

dmode2• 7 years ago

Bolt is tiny. I hate how it looks. It doesn't have Autopilot, nor does it have a Supercharging infrastructure. It certainly doesn't have the hundreds of bells and whistle that comes with Tesla.

warp_factor2• 7 years ago

I'm a big believer in electric vehicles, and it really frustrates me that the Bolt is unknown to the general public.

This car is a gem. Cheaper than a Tesla M3, and available before.

It shows once more that car buying is more about to be in a cult//group than really about the car itself. 90% of the attraction of the Model3 is that people will think you are somehow hype.

de_watcher2• 7 years ago

Can't really get Bolt in EU where EVs actually make a lot of sense.

hyuuu• 7 years ago

I believe they are called Opel over in EU

winter_blue• 7 years ago

$18,995 for a all-electric car is an amazing deal. It's got really incredible range (EPA rated 238 miles) for the price point. The other all-electric car at this price point, the VW e-Golf, has a mileage of 125 miles.

238 miles is close to the Tesla Model 3's EPA rated 250 miles. Here's an EPA comparison of the Bolt, Model 3, and Golf: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39786&...

Tesla Model 3 Effect – Chevy Dealers Discount 2019 Bolt by Almost $10k

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