RePalm – Hardware Emulation of PalmOS

http://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=27.%20rePalm

by zdw • 7 years ago

175 37 7 years ago

neilv2• 7 years ago

This work has great hack value. It's good to see people doing things like that.

Also, the Palm devices were great little machines, with some interesting technical tradeoffs for developers to push the very modest limits of the early hardware, which made sense. I did an app for an early one, and also put the API docs in more usable formats. I looked at the later Palm hardware again recently, when I was deciding where to go for Linux handheld hardware after Replicant, before I decided on PostmarketOS devices. https://www.neilvandyke.org/t-map/ https://www.neilvandyke.org/padr/ https://www.neilvandyke.org/postmarketos/

reaperducer• 7 years ago

Palm devices were great little machines, with some interesting technical tradeoffs for developers to push the very modest limits of the early hardware

I had a US Robotics Palm Pilot III. I did two exceptional things with it:

1. Wrote the content for my second web site (sold for six figures) on the roof of my apartment building after work using a Palm Pilot with the foldable keyboard.

2. Used the sync cradle to connect to the RS-232 port of an early GPS (around 1999-2000, I think) ripped out of a friend's Honda minivan. There was a program for the Palm that could take B&W bitmap images of maps, then scroll the map in sync with the incoming NMEA data. The hard part was that you had to tell the program the coordinates of the northwest and southeast edges of the bitmap so that it could scroll the correct amount.

- The maps couldn't be too big because of the memory limitation of the Palm.

- This was before Google maps. I think the only online map service was Terraserver, and you couldn't download images, so I took screenshots of the city overview, converted them to B&W and used those.

- You could only have one map. No stitching.

- No zooming.

Also, it took forever to lock into the GPS signal, though I think this was a problem with early GPS receivers and not a Palm issue.

neilv2• 7 years ago

That's pretty neat, for something that originally not much more than a calendar PDA. :)

If you want a more powerful handheld from that era, see the iPaq that came a little later. I'd kill for a good Linux handheld like that today (hopefully more people will pitch in on making PostmarketOS that handheld).

Scoundreller• 7 years ago

1. Wrote the content for my second web site (sold for six figures) on the roof of my apartment building after work using a Palm Pilot with the foldable keyboard.

Tell more!

forever to lock into the GPS signal

The semi-modern GPS would do estimates of where the satellites moved while “off”. Today, wifi and cellular base stations help seed the location precision.

codezero• 7 years ago

I was really convinced Palm was going to do something cool when I got my Tapwave Zodiac which had an 8M ATI video card in it, which allowed some decent 3d mobile games to run. I was way wrong, unfortunately. I till love that device though.

dmitrygr9• 7 years ago

Cool to see my project-in-progress here. Happy to answer questions.

there's still a lot to do until I'm ready to produce hardware, but a lot already works. The plan is to update the article as I go along, and eventually open source everything once I'm convinced it works at least well enough to be used.

steve192• 7 years ago

Really enjoyed reading it thank you. I miss my Palm Pilots. I love the UI, both functionally and the aesthetics.

dmitrygr9• 7 years ago

I'll have hardware you can build for $20 that will run PalmOS soon. Stand by.

AshamedCaptain2• 7 years ago

I would really appreciate it if you were to release your DAL and "runner".

I would really enjoy having a workable way to emulate PalmOS on top of Linux/Android.

StyleTap is just too pricey and almost abandoned at this point (it tends to give a black screen on modern Android), and PHEM/xpilot/POSE, while open source, just emulates m68k meaning you're stuck with OS4 ROMs, no PNOlets, no high-density, difficulty integrating with host services, millions of bugs, ...

dmitrygr9• 7 years ago

Re: code: I shall release it once it works a but better. That was always the plan

Styletap implements a higher level API (boot-level ish) so it is less compatible.

userbinator3• 7 years ago

I'm curious why you didn't choose to emulate the Palm hardware itself, much like e.g. a Gameboy emulator would, and thus not need to worry about the internal structure of the software.

dmitrygr9• 7 years ago

Wouldn't be fast enough to be real-time. Also emulation is never good on batteries. I want to build real usable devices. On batteries.

DonHopkins2• 7 years ago

I wonder if he can get PalmJoint running again? "Beam me up!"

https://twitter.com/xardox/status/997939444660523009

https://donhopkins.com/home/PalmJoint.prc

https://donhopkins.com/home/PalmJoint/Src/PalmJointMain.cpp

rhizome• 7 years ago

Whatever a PalmJoint is, you appear to be the only person in Google who has mentioned it.

userbinator3• 7 years ago

That's more because Google's search quality for old and obscure things is abysmal (and has been going downhill for a while.)

(Incidentally, there's already an item on the front page currently discussing this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19762907 )

ultrasounder• 7 years ago

Wow!! I’ve been snooping around your webpage looking for updates every now and then and here it is. I am actually am starting a custom CPU project for which I might want to write an emulator and this will help me a LOT. Thanks for starting on this and sharing your progress. Appreciate it. Anybody reading this, Dmitrys c codebase is a must read for anyone even remotely associated with systems programming.

AshamedCaptain2• 7 years ago

There were already some reimplementations of PalmOS on top of other operating systems.

e.g. PalmOS's own "Simulator" was a reimplentation of PalmOS on Windows. It would contain a x86 ROM that would "thunk out" for some ROM libraries (including the DAL) into separate .dlls that would do the equivalent Windows calls. I always though that if I ever wanted to start my own PalmOS clone I would start by looking at those.

Garnet VM by ACCESS was exactly the same thing except for Linux and Gtk+, and compiled for ARM. Namely, an original PalmOS ROM blob with some libraries implemented as external .so that would perform Gtk+ and Cairo (!!) calls.

Most probably, this was actually developed as part of the entire "PalmOS on top of Linux" project that PalmSource actually still had when they were bought by ACCESS.

StyleTap was a 3rd party commercial reimplementation. You can see it still has some drawing glitches and differences versus an actual PalmOS. It is available for both Windows (CE) and Linux (Android).

So I think Linux does make for an excellent host operating system, after all.

dmitrygr9• 7 years ago

All of those modified the os at much higher levels. RePalm runs UNMODIFIED OS, with only DAL.prc replaced. Literally: use the T|T3 rom and you get a tungsten t3. Use a Sony TH55 rom, and clie organizer runs as on a real TH55

busterarm2• 7 years ago

There are so many tools for late 80s/early 90s cars/car-mods that _ONLY_ work on PalmOS devices.

This will be a godsend to that community if it works.

liquid9• 7 years ago

Can you please elaborate, any examples or explanations you can link?

busterarm2• 7 years ago

The Rtek ECU upgrade for RX7s. PLink for old Miatas. MMCD Datalogger for early 90s Mitsubishis.

ngcc_hk• 7 years ago

Some photography software also run on palm. And even a scheme programming environment.

dsjoerg• 7 years ago

Oh yay I can get Vindigo running on a device again

petersteinberg• 7 years ago

Fancy seeing you here Dave. ;-)

zoom6628• 7 years ago

Amazing hack project .... and reading thru you see took only 2 weeks to write CoretexEmu. Amazing. Seriously reading this stuff impresses the socks off me and Im in awe of someone who can manage their time for writing enterprise products like VMware, flying planes(author has 2), and hacking at this depth. Kudos unlimited!!

dmitrygr9• 7 years ago

Thanks!

The secret is three-prong: I absolutely love doing this (despite this project having no practical purpose), I have a FAANG job, and I have no family of my own.

person_of_color• 7 years ago

What does FAANG have to do with it?

xattt• 7 years ago

Does anyone know why Cobalt never made it?

lostgame• 7 years ago

I have recently picked up a Handspring Visor from a Value Village for $5.

It has been indespensible beyond words.

When I go to pick up my iPhone to take a note, I end up seeing my notifications, scroll through Instagram for 5 minutes, until I get up and make myself a coffee and forget not only to write the note but what the original idea even was.

With my palm, I just pick up and write. These things are golden.

jplayer01• 7 years ago

... that sounds like a neat idea.

RePalm – Hardware Emulation of PalmOS

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