Show HN: Open source non-linear notepad app

by NIckGeek • 8 years ago

222 96 8 years ago

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

I got featured in https://blog.ubuntu.com/2018/07/17/get-productive-on-the-lin... under #6, so that was pretty cool.

namanyayg• 8 years ago

I've often felt limited by the current state of note-making/todo/spreadsheet tools (ideally, they're all grouped into one app with cross platform sync), and this looks like a great step in the quick notemaking aspect. Glad to see it's open source as well.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Thanks. This also supports markdown to-do lists and I manage all of my tasks by putting #todo on my notes (which then show up when I search for the hashtag).

The only thing missing there is spreadsheets, which feels like it might be a little bit of feature-creep. Thanks for the feedback :-)

reacharavindh• 8 years ago

I use Apple Notes for this, and it is surprisingly great. Being able to drag and drop images and screenshots is great.

Having them synchronized to the phone instantly is very convenient. As a bonus, I can add sketches when I open notes on my iPad using the Apple Pencil. It is sweeter because I can even search for a text fragment I hand-wrote in one of those sketches.

Saying all of this here because, I wish there was an open source/self-hosted alternative that did that. This website showed portable apps on all platforms, and open source, got me very excited until I realized I can't just drag and drop images into a note. Neither can I add sketches on the fly.

Sorry, I didn't mean to critique your open source effort, and sound negative. My intent is to highlight an alternative that I enjoy, and perhaps bring some ideas for discussion.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

You can click anywhere on a note to insert an image element, but yeah drag-and-drop would be cool.

You can quickly add a sketch by clicking on an empty note and then insert a "drawing" element. It'll also work with the Surface pens.

I really appreciate the comparison, I don't use Apple notes so it's nice to know what they offer.

Thanks for the feedback.

urlwolf5• 8 years ago

This Thing is creat. cons I find:

- Hmm, no shortcuts? or keyboard support in general. Press arrow down to highlight a search result fails

- bounding box for a note not needed (see onenote)

- Search the content of a note not possible?

- Too much chrome while note writing?

These are simple things to fix. Great project!

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Thanks! There are some keyboard shortcuts (there's a page in the help notepad on them) but I would like to add more.

Not too sure what you mean on the bounding box thing, like the little border around elements?

If you want to dismiss the sidebar just click the little ">>" or press "f". Hiding the breadcrumbs in the focus mode is on my todo list. Thanks for the list, I genuinely appreciate it.

urlwolf5• 8 years ago

Yeah, I mean the rectagle with shadow. Not needed. It also feels wrong that is 'modal', you are editing or moving. I'd rather click and start writing. having to do another click for note type, when 90% of the time it's text, feels like a deal breaker.

urlwolf5• 8 years ago

If I could do every single action without a mouse, it'd be fantastic. Navigate around notes with arrow keys.

I think you took the 'webapp' UX model a bit too far (where everything must be click, animation, multiple choice. Not even right click). Few modern web apps do these things well. One is checkvist.

Your target user likes the keyboard (coders, writers). Listen to them (us)

Geojim• 8 years ago

Agree about the bounding box, best seen when editing, rest of the time just a distraction.

I've been chasing a onenote alternative for some time, this looks promising. I have to add, I loved the old Onenote heirachy, notebooks down the left (rotated labels), sections across the top, pages down the right.

And more screen shots always help for those too lazy to trial. And add some default notebook/section/note naming, so people can just click and start adding notes.

Great work

urlwolf5• 8 years ago

Also linking notes to make them relate to each other would be great. Imagine a 'police board' with visible connections instead of a whiteboard...

mingodad• 8 years ago

When I open it on linux without GPU I've got a high cpu load. Why a notepad need so high cpu load doing nothing ?

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Is it the Snap version? I think that does some decompression on load.

tenryuu• 8 years ago

Maybe because it's running ontop of chrome

tobyhinloopen• 8 years ago

I was clicking around for a minute, not figuring out how to get started. You have to click "Notepads" and "New" first. I didn't see "New" because when I click a dropdown, I expect all menu items to be BELOW the initial button, so I skipped "New" and thought "Import" was the first menu-item. I must be an idiot.

Then I have to give my note a title... I don't know?? I just want to create a note, not title it... so I enter no title and press "OK" and... nothing!

So I press "New" again, enter random keystrokes as a title, and... now what? I continue pressing random buttons, now I try "+ Section" (whatever that means). I got a collapsable section and 2 new buttons. Great.

Now I press "+ Note" and I finally get a "Hey, you can do stuff now!" message.

Is it so hard to just initially create a note without having to create a "Notepad" and a "Section" first? And you have to name both things before you can do anything.

So I insert a text with markdown, enter some random text... now I want to save it. I see a big huge blue button: That must be SAVE! Oh, it isn't. It's "bibliography", whatever that means. The big red button? Oh that's delete... I haven't created anything, but at least I know how to delete it just in case.

I also like how the label for the text-area is "formatting help" and is actually a link to "formatting help" and not the label for the text-area.

Anyways, I found out you "save" by just clicking wherever. Fine. So I now wanted to actually name my thing. I'm clicking the title in the header. Double-clicking. Nope, that doesn't work. Looking for a rename button here... Oh maybe the sidebar. So I see that cog icon and I think: There, that's where you must be able to rename it, right?

And yes, a modal! With a RENAME button! Cool. So I press the RENAME button and POOF modal gone. Wtf??? Since the blue button I saw earlier wasn't a confirm/save button but a "open a modal" button, I assumed it opened another modal, but no: Now it just closes the modal. Whatever.

So I open the modal again and notice the name is actually an input field (gotta love Google Material Design). So I change the name and click the modal away, assuming it is saved automatically just like with notes. My changes aren't saved. Fuck.

So I open the modal AGAIN and assume the "RENAME" button is a SAVE button. Finally...

This whole thing is a neat idea, but there is much room for improvement on the GUI.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Sorry to hear that you got frustrated. I did try to make little help videos (and I have a note about structure in the help notepad) but I understand that it should be intuitive without having to watch that or view the help notepad.

The bibliography list lets you attach URLs to elements on your note, which is helpful for when you go back for essay-writing and stuff. The formatting-help thing isn't actually a label but I understand the confusion there, I'll look into ways to improve that.

I'd love if you would take the time to formalise some of your criticism in a github issue: https://github.com/MicroPad/Web/issues

Boulth• 8 years ago

I wish there were some screenshot. I'm on a weak airport wifi and cannot really check this out now :(

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

There are some on the snap store page: https://snapcraft.io/micropad

I'll look into adding them to the main site.

hkai• 8 years ago

Couldn't figure out how to type into it.

Opened the menu, created the new notebook. Then it's just empty canvas. I tried clicking into it but nothing really happens. The Android keyboard doesn't show, which means there's no text input.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Yeah, the mobile UX is really a sore point right now, on the sidebar, you create a section and then create a note. When you open the note you should see a message saying your note is empty. Dismiss the sidebar and when you tap on the canvas it'll open an insert menu.

The mobile UI is definitely more of a read-experience but I'd love to change that (and if any developers want to help with that it'd be awesome)

vekker2• 8 years ago

This is a wonderful looking project, thanks for making it open source! I am thinking of forking it for my own side-project and contributing to the development if possible.

As other commenters already noted, the UI/UX of the app will need some work. Just some initial thoughts:

  - Organisation of the notes is cumbersome: it wasn't clear to me what is meant with a note and a section, and how to actually start writing (I would expect to be able to start writing right away rather than first creating a notebook/section/note, choosing a title, etc...)
  - I would like to tag my notes à la Evernote, and filter notes based on this.
  - Speaking of searching/filtering: it would be nice to list all search results (and organisation of the notes for that matter) in the main view.
  - Maximise screen real estate for the actual note taking: why is there such a huge header and side nav... on a 13" screen I barely have room to see my notes. I would like to hide all that in a hamburger menu.
  - Keyboard shortcuts!
  - The ability to drag and drop images or other documents would be nice
  - The text in the textarea when taking a note is so small & there is no padding.

Anyway, hope that's useful feedback.. thanks again for this work! I will look further into it.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Thanks for the list!

Just on a couple points I may already have what you're looking for, you can type in a hashtag (like #todo) anywhere in a markdown element and then that note will show up in a search for that hashtag (that search also works cross-notepads).

The side-nav can be hidden (although the rest of the chrome can't, which is something I want to get sorted). Also, on the textarea size, I think I'm using the browser default, but I might be wrong there.

Thanks for a decent list though, it's great to have action items.

Forks are always welcome and I appreciate all pull requests.

yuchi• 8 years ago

Would a full UI redesign proposal be appreciated too?

I'd like to give it a shot if I found some spare time.

mkl• 8 years ago

Good comment, but please don't indent like that, it makes things very hard to read. Two spaces at the start of the line turns on code formatting, which uses a monospace font and scrolls sideways instead of wrapping: https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc

Cyphase• 8 years ago

Here's vekker's list without the formatting:

* Organisation of the notes is cumbersome: it wasn't clear to me what is meant with a note and a section, and how to actually start writing (I would expect to be able to start writing right away rather than first creating a notebook/section/note, choosing a title, etc...)

* I would like to tag my notes à la Evernote, and filter notes based on this.

* Speaking of searching/filtering: it would be nice to list all search results (and organisation of the notes for that matter) in the main view.

* Maximise screen real estate for the actual note taking: why is there such a huge header and side nav... on a 13" screen I barely have room to see my notes. I would like to hide all that in a hamburger menu.

* Keyboard shortcuts!

* The ability to drag and drop images or other documents would be nice

* The text in the textarea when taking a note is so small & there is no padding.

dEnigma• 8 years ago

Thank you very much! The original list was almost unreadable on my smartphone.

vekker2• 8 years ago

Ha! Thanks for that, I'm mostly a lurker here so I was surprised to learn HN puts everything on one line, I thought indenting it was the only way to have a bulleted list.

aiilnns• 8 years ago

I think it would be easier if there was no textbox, no click and insert text. Merely click, have a blinking cursor appear, write anywhere. After you've finished writing click again in an empty space and have the text box created, so you can resize it.

Similarly for drawing.

Ditch the boxes altogether while writing/drawing and have them appear afterwards for manipulation.

edit: Other than that your program looks quite promising!

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Thanks! I was trying that for drawing a while ago but I was having a lot of trouble getting it to work.

I'm thinking as a compromise for the mean-time I plan to automatically insert the text-box when you have the insert menu open and just start typing.

Thanks for the thoughts. It's great to get constructive feedback.

aagd• 8 years ago

Does this use NodeIntegration? I'm kinda paranoid with Electron apps these days...

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Nope. The client is on its own. The only connection to node is in preload.ts, but that's a one-way relationship. Have a read of https://github.com/MicroPad/Electron/blob/master/main.ts if you're interested.

kingofpandora• 8 years ago

This reminds me of the old KDE application, Basket Note Pads: https://basket-notepads.github.io/screenshots.html.

lf-non3• 8 years ago

This is a blast from the past. Basket notes was my goto note-taking solution for multiple years during college.

chippy• 8 years ago

I like the idea of it being non-linear.

In terms of features, being able to paste an image (e.g. like pasting into a github comment, or into a gdoc) would be great. I find I use screenshots into the clipboard more than saving to a file, however I don't know if others do as much nor if Windows / Mac supports that.

kejaed• 8 years ago

This is the #1 reason I just moved from a big markdown role to using OneNote at work. Screen clips, whiteboards, drawings all things that are quite handy to have next to the indexable typed notes. Quite happy after a couple weeks.

jjoonathan• 8 years ago

Mac: Ctrl+Cmd+Shift+4 to grab a rectangular selection to the clipboard.

Does windows have something similar? I've been using PrintScrn and Paint but it's comparably very awkward. I know there are apps, but "working in places where I haven't / can't install apps" is a requirement.

wodenokoto• 8 years ago

Yes Windows have a snipping tool[1]

Although I use it every day, I haven't bothered looking up keyboard shortcuts for it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipping_Tool

naikrovek3• 8 years ago

Windows: WIN+SHIFT+S

Mac: CMD+SHIFT+4 (Ctrl not req'd.)

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Yeah, other platforms support it. I want to get drag and drop working as well, so that would probably be a good thing to add with that. Thanks for the comments :-)

andrewflnr• 8 years ago

What's "open notepad xml"? The only useful Google results I could find are for this project.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

It's just this project, it's what I call my file thing. I should probably ditch that part though.

codepie• 8 years ago

I have been using Zim[0] for quite few years now. With various plugins, it allows me to write LaTeX equations, formatted code, tables etc. Overall it has been really good, but I feel the only thing missing is the support for mobile devices.

[0] http://zim-wiki.org/

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

This notepad app does support LaTeX equations (instructions are in the help notepad). Sadly it might be an issue on mobile for you too.

MicroPad _works_ on mobile, but not very nicely. That is a key thing I want to improve though.

philips• 8 years ago

The trend of open source, zero knowledge sync and cross platform tools is really interesting.

standardnotes.org is another in that space

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

I agree, although this isn't 100% zero-knowledge. The keys are managed server side because the server needs to be able to read your notepad for the diff-sync.

I have written what I hope is a pretty plain-english privacy policy here https://getmicropad.com/policy.php#privacy

lf-non3• 8 years ago

People who prefer structured outlining (over non linear snippet collections) may find fluid-outliner[1] interesting.

After not finding any good signup-free privacy-aware zero-installation solution, which supported both rich text and markdown, I started prototyping on the above. It is quite early stage but fairly usable. Any feedback/contributions are welcome.

[1] https://github.com/fluid-notion/fluid-outliner

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Oh wow! That looks really cool. You could possibly even create compatibility with my app using the parser that I wrote https://github.com/MicroPad/Web-Parser

lf-non3• 8 years ago

Releasing the parser as a standalone library/utility is a cool idea. I'll check into this.

lliiffee• 8 years ago

Some feedback -- this looks great! I'd love to have some kind of (la)tex support.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Already there for maths. Syntax is in the help notepad.

roryisok• 8 years ago

I love the idea of infinite canvas, OneNote has this and it's really freeing.

The web-client works on any modern browser. It doesn't matter if you're using a Chromebook, a Surface, or a toaster.

Apparently toaster beats windows phone, because it doesn't work on my Lumia

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

I suspect that's because your browser doesn't support srcdoc with IFrame, I know Edge is getting it on the next version, they're just a little behind.

Also, yeah. After trying OneNote for a couple years I was just hooked with the infinite canvas concept.

MinusGix• 8 years ago

Looks quite nice. Though some features which I think would make this more appealing (at least to me): Ability to draw lines between two elements. Link to other Sections/Notes. Copy & Paste images into it, rather than uploading.

Really nice tool, and I'll be sure to look at it to see how it changes.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Thanks. Dragging/copying in images is something I really want to do, so hopefully I'll have enough free time to get to that soon.

The closest I can give you to lines right now is for you to insert a "drawing" element and doing a line there. That's not a great solution though.

mholt• 8 years ago

Cool! I like this. A couple suggestions:

- Instead of asking "Are you sure" to delete an element, just go ahead and delete it, but make it undoable. This allows for quicker workflow.

- If I double-click an empty space, I would like to immediately insert a Text element and start typing, without having to aim the mouse again and click Text.

I'll probably be coming back to this when I need some note taking. Thanks for sharing this!

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Thanks for the feedback! I like the undo concept, that should be do-able.

On the quick-typing thing I was thinking that I could make it so that if you just start typing with the insert thing open, it'll automatically put you in a text element. What do you think about that?

CuriousSkeptic• 8 years ago

I believe Raskins mentions this, and other ideas, in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Humane_Interface

An interesting read none the less

ygra2• 8 years ago

Generally for usability I'd suggest to take a good look at OneNote, which in my eyes gets the "type and draw everywhere, with minimal friction" concept very right. And while the underlying data model of such an application may necessitate a collection of objects being scattered on a canvas, that doesn't mean that the interaction model has to follow that directly. So indeed, just let me type anywhere.

Another thing that adds friction in my eyes is that when editing text your first click changes the interface into text editing mode where the text neither stays at the position you've seen it before, nor can you actually interact with it with that first click. So when I see a word that I'd like to change and I click there, that will only spawn the edit window for that text object, instead of just placing a cursor there so I can directly edit it.

Sir_Substance• 8 years ago

Instead of asking "Are you sure" to delete an element, just go ahead and delete it, but make it undoable. This allows for quicker workflow.

Counterpoint: this makes it harder to tell that information that you might want to be really sure is deleted (like someone elses credit card number or your passport number) is actually deleted. The deletion workflow is now delete it->check to see if it's in the undo list->really for reals delete it.

That's a way worse UX than a confirm dialog, and more risky for the customer. Remember that your grandmother might be using this to temporarily store her credit card pin.

dan-robertson• 8 years ago

I don’t think clicking yes in a confirm dialog implies that anything was “truly deleted.” It might well still be living in the undo history, other indexes, auto save files, backups, and it could certainly live in memory (especially if it was moved by the garbage collector).

It would be very foolish to assume that just because one has clicked “yes, delete” that the data is gone forever.

severine• 8 years ago

Congratulations, looks great! Any chance of a 32-bit version?

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Thanks! I can look into it. If you follow the instructions on https://github.com/MicroPad/Electron/blob/master/README.md you should be able to build one on your machine too.

pixelHD• 8 years ago

Is there is a guide to help setup a self-hosted version fo this app? I'd assume there would be a server which does the actual parsing and syncing, along with a web app which is used to render onto a web page?

I absolutely love the idea by the way, can't wait to try it!

m52go2• 8 years ago

Hey do you mind if I ask you you handled code signing for your Windows and Mac apps?

Mac seems relatively straightforward, but Windows seems like an absolute cluster.

I'm releasing my own free open-source desktop app built with Electron soon, and it seems like the biggest pain in the butt that no one seems to talk about.

Overall though I love the idea, upvoted! Might even give it a go. Solves some big problems I have with note-taking...I've resorted to Zotero + Cryptomator + Dropbox for my own setup.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Nothing is code signed currently, it's annoying but code signing for Mac and Windows is not cheap.

m52go2• 8 years ago

I know, but the UX is hobbled pretty bad IMO. There's a good chance less-savvy users are turned away altogether...

Good to know. I'm planning on not signing anything for my first release, think I'll stick with that plan. Thanks!

GordonS• 8 years ago

Cheapest code signing certs I've found are from K-Software, although even they have jacked their prices a bit since I last renewed.

carterschonwald• 8 years ago

Cool!

Now make it compelling for folks who like ONeNote!:)

karmakaze• 8 years ago

Interesting, though I'm not sure (yet) what I'd use it for. Here are my notes:

  - I was a bit lost in the empty state after dismissing the help.
    (perhaps not immediately entering full screen mode would be good)
  - Took me a second to realize the sticky-looking text isn't a note but rather the page.
    (I may have been thrown off by the word 'notepad' in the HN post title)
  - The '+ Note' and '+ Section' interleaved in what would be a nice outline is a little distracting.
    It also creates the note/section at the end of the list whereas the action labels are at the start.
    (maybe even better is if you can iconify them and place beside the parent container's text)

gnufied• 8 years ago

Nice app. As someone who uses org-mode for note taking, I tried micropad. Here is a quick feedback:

1. Add support for syntax highligting the code blocks in markdown may be?

2. It is not obvious that full screen will hide the sidebar and how I can bring it back.

3. App has several bugs I think. Trying to create a image note with 1MB image froze the application.

4. Vertical space is a premium these days. A lot of vertical space in the app is wasted. Not sure if this being an electron app.

5. Whats up with app icon? I am using appimage on Fedora.

6. For some reason the note taking does not feel effortless. I do not mean this as massive criticism but as others have pointed out, allow deletion without prompts and allow undo.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Syntax highlighting would be really cool.

1MB images should work perfectly fine. It is an image element right?

I have heard that the icons might be a little weird. I've been unable to test it because my install of Linux doesn't use icons. I'd appreciate help with that one if anyone can help.

Thanks for the other feedback.

scott-smith_us• 8 years ago

Thanks for doing this.

SUGGESTION: A video demo link would really help short-attention-span people like me. Something brief that shows it being used and highlights features that make μPad stand out (e.g. "infinite canvas" -- what does that look like)?

pk78• 8 years ago

Nice app! I created a similar app a while back. The difference is that you can also connect the boxes(a mind map like concept) you create, otherwise, the click-anywhere-to-add kinda feature is similar. I'd appreciate it if you check it out - it's https://www.mapsofmind.com

writepub• 8 years ago

Hello HN. You might like to try a competing offering I developed, http://Write.Pub

juancampa• 8 years ago

It's funny that the main thing you do in a note-taking program is create notes but there's no keyboard shortcut for it. Otherwise, cool concept, will keep an eye on it

maneesh• 8 years ago

You might really like https://notion.so , which lets you create non-linear notes but with a really cool variety of page styles

selimthegrim• 8 years ago

For engineering notes, one might try http://www.blockpad.net, with OLE like ability to link formulas and tables between documents, shared repositories of such, and calculations with units!

beefman• 8 years ago

macOS 10.12.6 says the app bundle is damaged and can't be opened.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Hmm. I suspect that's because I don't do code signing?

naikrovek3• 8 years ago

Don't OneNote and Evernote already do this kind of thing? (On mobile, haven't tried yours, yet.)

You should be signing apps if the smartscreen prompt really bothers you. Be mad at virus and malware authors that forced this, not Microsoft or Apple.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Linux doesn't have the issue with codesigning. And no evernote doesn't (it's more of a page mechanism) and yes OneNote does but OneNote one Linux is non-existent and OneNote on the web is bad.

naikrovek3• 8 years ago

Code signing is not an issue, it is a feature. You can think of it as a way to programmatically check that the executable has not been modified since released by the developer.

FOSS sites often recommend that a downloader check the hash of a downloaded file against one provided, never seeming to realize that if an attacker can replace a .iso file that there is a high likelihood that they can modify the MD5 hash shown to match their modified file.

Code signing prevents this.

Code signing is a good thing.

ToFab123• 8 years ago

"Your web-browser doesn't support important security features required for µPad v3 to function" is the message that greet you when you access the app in Edge.

Which security features are Edge lacking in this regard?

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

I rely on iframes to sandbox, and as part of that I need srcdoc. Edge will support it in the next version iirc.

nasredin• 8 years ago

ICYMI this is an Electron app called MicroPad, stylized with the macro symbol of course.

Size: ~67 MB.

Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Yeah, that's the big issue with Electron. The "Micro" came from my original plan for it, which was to have a super small python script generate static notepad pages for you to visit in your browser. Obviously that's no longer the case.

vasili1112• 8 years ago

Nice project :)

1. It will be nice to have the possibility to add videos to notes. Not just links to files. I mean video files that are inside notes and can be played inside micropad.

2. Are there plans to add premium (paid) features besides paid sync in your clouds or all functionality will be available to everyone?

NIckGeek31• 8 years ago

Thanks!

1. That's totally possible, although file-size could quickly become an issue with syncing the videos (there's a 50MB cap)

2. Nope, All actual client functionality is (and always will be) free + open source. Even syncing is free (up to a point).

vasili1112• 8 years ago

although file-size could quickly become an issue with syncing the videos (there's a 50MB cap).

Is this cap from software or from the cloud?

Show HN: Open source non-linear notepad app

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