The Power of Positive People

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/well/the-power-of-positive-people.html

by Tomte • 8 years ago

295 146 8 years ago

shawn• 8 years ago

There's a simple hack toward being more positive: When you make a joke, ensure that you're the victim, not someone else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngwOuLzQiHE

It's a simple change, but very hard to do consistently.

agumonkey5• 8 years ago

Like most things, don't do it too often or people might think you have a problem or will consider you as the clown. It can backfire.

ryanx435• 8 years ago

why do i even bother with HN comments?

OP: "gives an anecdote about how the article is wrong or incomplete"

REPLY: "gives an anecdote about how the OP is wrong or incomplete"

REPLY-REPLY: "gives an anecdote about how the REPLY is wrong or incomplete"

repeat adnauseum on every comment chain for ever and ever.

fsloth2• 8 years ago

Why would you need to tell jokes that victimize anyone? Sounds like a very narrow sense of humor...

wizardforhire6• 8 years ago

If you study humor you find that nothing is funny and every joke is actually mean. I’ll look for these laughter studies but iirc the conclusions are that people laugh as a form of group identification. Laughter serves as a social signal in the same way affirmative or roger does over a radio. As in, I have received the information you have transmitted and correctly understand the intended message. As social groups become more specialized or valuable, it becomes more important to the groups survival to weed out those who are not of the proper pre-requisites. Academia is a perfect example of this, and what I find most fascinating is the etymology of the word barbarian. The word coming from an onomatopoeia of what athians thought foreignors sounded like when attempting to speak greek. I can just imagine eletist Greeks making fun of people behind their back as a form of social solidarity.

InitialLastName• 8 years ago

I'd love to hear a joke that doesn't (even implicitly) victimize anyone. I suspect that even if you found one, someone else could find an interpretation that victimizes someone.

coldtea4• 8 years ago

There's a simple hack toward being more positive: When you make a joke, ensure that you're the victim, not someone else.

Doesn't that just make you less offensive to others?

Still doesn't say anything about you being more positive - in fact, making yourself the butt of your jokes could mean you're self-deprecating or depressive.

AnimalMuppet• 8 years ago

Doesn't that just make you less offensive to others?

No. Where I work we talk a lot of smack to each other. This doesn't go on behind peoples' backs - we prefer that the victim be there to hear it. But about 20% of the time, the "victim" is also the speaker - it's self-directed smack.

When we were interviewing this guy to join our team, I mentioned this behavior, and asked if he was going to be able to put up with that environment. The thought for a moment, and then said "It sounds like you trust each other." He was exactly right. It's because we trust each other that we can tease each other - knowing that the sender wasn't speaking in malice, and knowing that the receiver won't take it the wrong way.

Reedx• 8 years ago

You don't have to go that far. Consider this insight from Chris Rock, who said: Joke about what people do, not what they are.

That came up in this discussion where he, Jerry Seinfeld, Ricky Gervais and Louis CK talk about comedy and their techniques, etc. It's really interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKY6BGcx37k

zackmorris2• 8 years ago

A slightly off-topic insight I came upon recently was from the civil rights movement: don't call people racist, because it backs them into a corner they can't get out of.

It's better to debate them on their choices so they can find their own way towards a more enlightened and equitable worldview.

I've also come to realize that this may partially explain why conservatives I know have been reluctant to engage in political discussion in these times. They're being backed into having to defend fundamentally indefensible positions.

Rather than forcing them to opt out, maybe it would be more productive to provide them an avenue out by engaging them in a more positive way. I'm still trying to figure out what that is, however.

fergatmuhacct4• 8 years ago

This goes much further than just jokes. It's better to never to say someone is an asshole. As if it's an immutable part of their character. It's almost always better to say someone is acting like an asshole. Or in more extreme cases someone often acts like an asshole.

This leaves room for improvement/reevaluation and it's actually far more accurate in almost all cases.

watwut2• 8 years ago

The dangerous part of it is when people start to think that you are what you joke about and when you start to sort-of-believe your own jokes. You may know you don't mean it, but they dont and may end up believing it anyway. And if you repeat variations of "I am stupid" often enough, your confidence may go down. Is likely, even.

At some point, is it not humility nor positive anymore, it is just negative.

Yes, people like it when you insult yourself. Still, if the relationship requires you to take down and insult yourself regularly, it is not worth it. I mean it.

I had that verbal tick where you automatically take down yourself or underplay own achievement and in retrospective, it costed me a lot. It took a lot of effort to get rid of it and I am still not fully there yet. People like it, they laugh and are friendlier and nicer to you. But they do end up believing you are less capable, then you are, respect you less, your word matters less in things that matter.

Dont do it as a habit.

barking2• 8 years ago

Was listening to Barry Humphries (dame edna everidge etc) the other week on some radio programme. One of his lines was that he'd been lucky to have been born with the gift of being able to laugh at other people's misfortunes.

DoreenMichele5• 8 years ago

My experience with self deprecating humor is that it only works well when the audience has sufficient context to get why it is funny. Otherwise it just comes across as poor self esteem and signals that you really are the loser you are claiming to be.

I like the suggestion someone else made to basically joke about life, not about people. (my words, not theirs, but that's what it sounded like to me)

ant6n3• 8 years ago

Also, sometimes making fun of yourself seems to signal to other people that they should also make fun of you.

agumonkey5• 8 years ago

Slightly related, it's amazing how shared space influences well being. With people out of sync, it's hard to do anything deeply. In place where everybody is focused, it gets a lot easier (a library for instance).

thrav• 8 years ago

This works at the more macro level too. Someone was talking about moving to SF from the Midwest and being amazed by all the fit, beautiful young professionals walking around. Yes, it’s true that driven, disciplined people are more likely to be somewhere like SF or NYC, but the subconscious adherence to your new home’s social norms is a huge factor.

We want to fit in. In a library, that means heads down. In a fit city, that means being fit. In Texas (my home), that often means lots of beer drinking and dining out, which leads to not fit.

The power of positive people is the same. If you roll in a cynical circle, your cynicism will be applauded, and your optimism ridiculed, and you’ll find yourself altogether more cynical.

Around 22 years old, I realized that location / social circle are two of my greatest levers for influencing my behavior, and I’ve been extremely careful about where I’m willing to position myself ever since.

agumonkey5• 8 years ago

About the library effect, it was more a distraction-remover and motivational reminder than a desire to fit. Everyone is concentrated, I'm going back to concentration. If some were slacking off, I'd be tempted to relax. Also it favors everything that help your goal. Like the low noise for instance.

analyst74• 8 years ago

The article started with about author's experience hanging out with some really positive people, and somehow made a conclusion about needing to hang out more with happy people (happy != positive). Then goes on to describe various benefits of having close friendships or social circles that you can depend on, and basically used dependable friend and happy friend interchangeably.

Although, despite being such a poorly written article, I do agree that having a group of close friends who you can depend on for good and bad times is huge for our mental health and happiness.

jbattle• 8 years ago

Yeah - maybe it's just the lingo of "positive" people, or maybe I haven't met enough "negative" people (lucky!?), but the (happy != positive) angle should have been explored a little bit.

The best friends in my life are not the same friends that have always been easy / happy / positive. But it is the people that I've known through tough times that I rely on now. It's all too easy to step away from people when one or the other is in a tough spot and this article runs the risk of encouraging that behavior. By my reading anyhow

ljm• 8 years ago

It's way too easy these days to identify some undesirable behaviour in a relationship and instantly jump to the conclusion that they must be abusive or toxic, despite the fact that many people have their ups and downs. Throwing an abandonment issue or two their way by ditching them at the first tough moment is hardly going to uplift them, and if you care enough about them maybe what's needed is some stronger boundaries while that stuff is going on.

You'll never nourish such a deep, loving friendship if you're expecting your friends to be basically perfect: happy, easy-going, not giving you any trouble. Going through some tough shit together can really strengthen that bond and open you up to a kind of positivity and happiness you'll never get from those who simply wear it as a mask.

wizardforhire6• 8 years ago

There’s an easy litmus test to see whether or not someone is worth further engaging with and it is this. Does the person make your life better or makes you happy? If people are constantly putting you down or not wanting to listen to you or are hard to get ahold of, these are all signs that you may have misplaced atachmments to the relationship and it’s time to get out. Going through this you may ask yourself what does this other person have going on in their life? What are you contributing to the relationship that may be of burden to others and cause them to act this way towards you. Upon addressing these questions you may then assess what you may need to change in how you interact with other people if anything or wether or not the other person is in a position at this stage of their life to to be able to participate in yours. Having been on both sides of this I’ve found approaching all relationships with humility and compassion goes a long way towards alleviating any tensions.

rvn1045• 8 years ago

succinctly put. a simple insight that can take years to figure out.

wizardforhire6• 8 years ago

Thanks! It did.

vecinu• 8 years ago

are hard to get ahold of

I have a friend that is like this, he's very difficult to get a hold of through messaging/e-mail or text. When we're hanging out together, we have a great time (at least it seems like it from my point of view) but he rarely makes the effort to seek out things we could do together.

Is that an unhealthy relationship in the sense that I crave his attention/time more than he does mine? Are some people just more introverted and don't socialize as much?

andrewingram• 8 years ago

Sounds like he has some sort of social anxiety to be honest. You’ve basically just described me.

fimdomeio• 8 years ago

I have friends since university that I would have completely lost if it wasn't from the effort on my side, for us to get together. At some extreme point I had one friend complaining that I was not calling her enough while she never actually did it herself.

We have a great time when we're together and I know that these friendships are very important for me and for them. At some point I just started assuming that it is part of my role in life... to be the one that makes the phone call.

Swizec• 8 years ago

As someone who is like that: Is it possible they’re just constantly overcommitted and stretched thin?

I enjoy hanging out with my friends, but whenever I do it feels like I have to take great pains to carve the time out of my schedule, reshuffle a bunch of priorities, and try to somehow keep my head above water despite the reduced time in the day. What do them is a “Lets grab a quick drink” is to me a “What am I not getting done this week and how far behind will that put me?”

Hence I never reach out proactively. Any spare time goes to keeping the SO relationshio strong.

std_throwaway• 8 years ago

Some people wait for an external trigger. If you're having a good time, meet them from time to time. Don't stress it. It's good.

ravenstine6• 8 years ago

I am probably that guy to a lot of people.

For me, it has nothing to do with social anxiety, disrespect, etc. It's all about how I value my time differently from others. In my world, there's no such thing as recreation or relaxation, beyond the occasional Halo game. I do everything with objectives in mind. I constantly have several thoughts and ideas floating around in my head that I have to coalesce into coherence, because one of those ideas might be worth further investigation.

When someone texts me, messages me, emails me, etc., that's a relatively small interruption but can easily throw everything off in my head when I'm in the middle of a thread of thought. It's even worse if I am trying to focus on a specific task at hand. Yeah, I'm a serious person, but I enjoy the way my mind works and have been much happier by embracing it instead of treating it as a sickness (like the public school system).

So when I get those handful of messages coming at me every day, I ignore most of them and reply later, if ever.

I know this hurts people sometimes, and I try to help them understand. Buy I've given up explaining this over and over again. My ideas and questions around writing a line encoder are more important than your cat photos or going out for lunch, or favors for things one can easily take care of on their own.

It's not that I don't love my friends and family, but I can't have their drivel constantly loop around in my head.

DoreenMichele5• 8 years ago

I tend to let other people initiate. It isn't because I don't want attention. It's more complicated than that.

I will suggest that instead of guessing or asking internet strangers to guess, you would be better off just asking your friend a few questions.

Some people are just busy. Some people just don't do text messages or don't check their email regularly. Some people have social anxiety.

Etc. Etc.

There can be lots of obstacles to making a connection that have nothing to do with the other person just not liking you. Only you can decide if you are getting enough out of it to keep at it.

cm2012• 8 years ago

My wife is very socially anxious and its very hard for other people to get in touch with her out of the blue. But she loves them dearly. I wouldn't take it too personally if you enjoy your time together. It's probably not out of disrespect.

sn41• 8 years ago

I am not a professional therapist, but he sounds like a person with anxiety, probably of the Anxious-Avoidant type.

I am optimistic that once there is a basic understanding and respect of each person's needs and bounds, almost every relationship can be made to work.

cyberferret• 8 years ago

My wife and kids are constantly pushing me to call my friends and arrange hangouts with them. It is not that I am anti-social or particularly introverted.

I genuinely love my friends and love it when I hang out with them - however I just always seem to be busy doing stuff and never really realise that I haven't called any of them for many weeks. It is just not in my nature to reach out randomly to see if someone wants to hang out.

I think a lot of it is to do with how I was raised - I think it was ingrained in my psyche that it was 'rude' to call upon people and better to wait until they called you. To reach out was seeing a impolite or possibly interrupting their important work, I think. Funny how those little beliefs/lessons when you are a kid tends to follow you into adulthood.

Senderman2• 8 years ago

A lot of people are chiming in on 'being that person' - it's me, as well.

I find text awkward, shallow, and ultimately I spin my wheels trying to decode and write messages - the kind of enegry I specifically need for things I'm working on.

Not to mention I prefer to just wait until the next time I see somebody in person so that the interaction will actually be meaningful.

A lot of people don't consider the world of difference between in-person communication and making a small electronic object beep-and-buzz near the recipient on their behalf.

About your question: The problem of deciding if a relationship is 'unhealthy' is very open-ended and rough. I can never arrive at a binary answer, and the topic does make me sad. Attention is hard to gauge and manage. You have some great specific questions though, like Does he crave attention in the same way, Why doesn't he like messaging, etc. You two should find a way to talk about it. That's what I'd do.

All I know for sure is that relying on electronic communication can have weird and annoying effects on friendships where neither person quite realises there's a problem.

apatters• 8 years ago

One thing to consider is that social networks are naturally unequal. They have hubs and connectors and edges. Which one are you? Which one is he? I think a hub will tend to have more shallow relationships because he has so many connections and there's only so much time in the day. Someone with few connections may be much more invested in each one.

I'm not making any value judgments here I am just describing the terrain.

On the other hand, maybe he just doesn't like to be glued to a screen chatting with people all day. I freakin' hate it and have made great efforts to cut down.

amorphous• 8 years ago

No, it's just that other people have different ways to use technology. I'm very text-based, so writing a quick message fits me best. I have a friend, non-tech, very busy, very sociable, that you can only reach by calling him.

I stopped wasting time pondering those questions, just accepted the fact the way people communicate can vary vastly, and if someone is difficult to get hold of then that's how it is. Better spend my time making more contacts.

poisonarena• 8 years ago

I have dealt with a few relationships exactly like this, my best friend for years was like this, and I had to just give up . Some people are socially awkward, or have weird hang ups, and you should afford more lenience in those cases maybe. But I have noticed that some seem to actually get satisfaction from the power of being wanted that way. Like pleasure from 'leaving you on read'. When I was younger in my late teens early twenties this was mostly experienced with new romantic interests acting cool or trying to make themselves a rare commodity, but when that happens in a plutonic relationship I wont even bother with the person..

mlthoughts20182• 8 years ago

Some of the people who have contributed the most to making my life better have been the most frustrating people to be around or communicate with. I have an amazingly brilliant friend who is incredibly miserly and has a really harsh world view. He makes my life better because I am challenged by him and he won't let me comfortably stick to the beliefs I already have. If he thinks they are dumb, he'll tell me just that (usually in a pretty crabby way), and quite often he is right. He has been right and insightful enough that when he clashes with my point of view, that is solid evidence to me that I ought to re-think why I have the viewpoint that I have and perhaps update it.

I just think some people are surly, miserly, cheerless, grouches and that is just their way in life. If you respond by shutting them out because it's inconvenient for your short-term feelings, you might miss out on an amazing person who just happens to live life differently.

Once I started to see miserly behavior as "just another way of life" that some people like and some people don't, it really opened my eyes to many more people around me.

In this sense, I think it's very shallow to ask "do they make my life better" (which will almost surely be biased by whatever short term comforts or simple, manageable friendship you want) or "do they make me happy" (sometimes the best thing for us is something that shocks our system, upsets our worldview, challenges us in a non-trivial way, and we might have to endure receiving that in thorny, grumpy packaging).

Obviously there is a limit. With my friend, I know that grumpiness is his way of life. He doesn't mean gruff or callous things to be taken as insults, even though most shallow social interaction he has with people, especially if they don't know him, might come off that way. If I thought he sincerely was putting me down or insulting me purely for the sake of inflicting pain or something, then yeah, I would not want that in my life.

Overall I guess I am just saying I think it's much more complicated than the heuristic you describe. If I followed that heuristic, it would be a lot like indulging confirmation bias and surrounding myself only with people who reinforce the stuff I already think or do. I might miss out on great relationship where a healthy antagonism is a first-order component of the interaction, and it stretches my boundaries.

s-shellfish• 8 years ago

I'm very similar, and most of my life I have hidden my more sad, negative side. It makes me feel genuinely better that people like you exist. Because half the reason we are so miserable is because we know we are miserable, it's intricately attached to our identity, decoupling it from all our reasoning to see the brighter side of life isn't a switch that can be instantly flipped, and it requires trust between people who won't judge us for not having the energy to fake a smile when we can't.

The power of positive thinking can be destructive if it has been automated. Negative thinking can be the same way - it can be automated, although from my experience, my negative thinking usually helps me see flaws in my own reasoning to such excess that I don't feel I'm at risk for it being automated without being able to reason myself out of whatever is automatic.

I'm glad you are thoughtful enough (and that's not meant as a back handed compliment, abstractly positive thinking and negative thinking function the same way, they just interact with different components of self-social systems) to see things in less simplified ways. I have one friend who is like you, and it's constantly a struggle to override my belief system that they are sick of me. But that's the automatic thinking spiral I get stuck in. And I would think most people who are cynical like that think similarly, because that's what we are used to. Emotional vampires, black holes, draining. All those pejoratives affect our self perspective.

We don't know how people will judge us. It's nice that people are willing to speak from another perspective. Positive thinking, from when I've experienced it, can feel very group think, like, everything will fall apart if you stop thinking that way. That is such a suppressive ideology to me, it feels dangerous, and I'm not comfortable simply allowing myself to be one directionally convinced into thinking that way. It doesn't take my perspective into account.

So in the end, I find, the people who can handle interacting with me and staying positive have very strong minds, both intellectually and emotionally. And they demonstrate that there is a brighter side to life that doesn't imply we're all going to jump off a cliff because it's fun, and not see the ground coming. Sometimes bad things happen in life. It can't all be controlled by attitude. There are real things that happen in life that affect emotions. Forcing oneself to pretend everything is fine is suicidal.

I'm not used to being happy. It makes me uncomfortable often. That doesn't mean I fear it. It just means I have to be very careful in experiencing the emotion. Sadness too. Sadness over things that make you sad shouldn't be suppressed, nor should it be attached to people like 'those people made me sad'. That's just going to hurt a person in the long run, because sadness is an awareness. You need sadness to know happiness. Suppressing emotions leads to convoluted reasoning, missed connections, insight and clarity into one's own circumstances, real things.

I feel neutral talking to you, but I feel better in general knowing most of humanity isn't on a collision course to remove half of it's emotional reasoning away.

itronitron3• 8 years ago

Miserly is highly correlated with controlling. I appreciate your ability to consider your friend's point of view but you may at some point in the future decide that they are just an incredible asshole.

timr• 8 years ago

This approach also allows for the reality that not all "positive" people are necessarily optimists. There's room for all kinds of valid perspectives in this world, and if you limit yourself to people who are engaged in a constant exercise of blowing rose-scented smoke up your butt (extremely common in the US, particularly places dominated by techno-utopian types...), you're missing out. People who make your life better don't always have to be saying happy things to you.

There are few things worse than people who are surrounded with a thick layer of "positive thinkers", who never deliver bad news or critical thinking. It's a fast track to delusion.

extralego• 8 years ago

It’s quite basic to see where you’re coming from; quite limited to convince yourself it’s sufficient or even consistent.

You’re conception overlooks the value in systematic considerations that build-in humility and compassion independent of judgement and measurements of interpersonal compatibility. I’m talking about the basis for some of the most critical elements of a functional society, like morals and other insistutions which defend and bring dignity to people who may be disabled, ugly, foreign, poor, uneducated, etc.

Humility and compassion can and must extend beyond your doorstep. This does not require you to be forced with disgust, discomfort, offense or anything of the like. But maybe it requires a basic concern for people as a whole and an appreciation for the deep complexities that bring your experiences to life, and for some people a walk in others shoes seems to be one of the only paths.

The idea is “humility and compassion” optimized on a systemic level, and not subject to the whims and follies of individual judgement and interpersonal emotion. This is the justification for morals. Be careful to not mistake morals for fairness, for fairness is subject to the aforementioned weaknesses.

wizardforhire6• 8 years ago

It’s impossible for me to agree more. Hence why I was cautious to extend the principle to all relationships. Once we look at ourselves we are free to extrapolate about systems greater than ourselves. I felt it prudent to post as the article was fairly basic and yet somehow missed the point. The aforementioned principles which you so aptly describe are part of the foundation by which a solid moral compass may be constructed. That these principles as basic as they are, are not known or employed by more is truly a tragedy. Thank you for your articulate illustration which in its critique provides greater understanding of subtle nuances that, from the looks of how this tread is evolving, will surely be of service to others.

gollyned2• 8 years ago

This sounds interesting, but I don't understand. If it's not too much trouble, could you simplify and rephrase this?

hashkb3• 8 years ago

Sometimes you're depressed or lazy or for whatever reason consistently doing unproductive or annoying things. In this case, good friends might make you feel bad about yourself in the course of helping you improve your life. Not everything can be judged by how it makes you feel.

grasshopperpurp• 8 years ago

This is an excellent caveat to the OP's post, which is good general advice. In my mid-20s, I was working 3rd shift, and a lot of hours, while my then and current GF was working a lot of hours on 1st shift. We had lived together for 5+ years by this point, but I was extremely discontent with life (as background, we had a great friendship that turned into an amazing relationship before the stress began to take its toll). Through a combination of always feeling like a zombie, feeling disconnected, lack of communication, just generally feeling terrible about life, and her being the closest to me, I became convinced that my unhappiness stemmed from our relationship, rather than my own immaturity meeting and external factors. Probably important to note that during this time I never lost respect, love, or admiration; I just questioned our compatibility.

Thankfully, I took time to question my conclusions, and I received some good advice from a good friends. I took some big steps forward in understanding my self and my relationship, changed jobs (no more 3rd shift), and the level of communication shot through the roof. Some years later, I wouldn't say we have a perfect relationship, but it's more perfect than I thought possible. There are still outside stresses, but we're steadying forces in each other's lives.

Definitely don't stick around people who make you feel terrible - or any kind of net negative, but many times when we're making these calculations, we're not in our most centered states, so be careful to make sure that the friend in question is the source of displeasure, rather than yourself/external factors.

king_nothing• 8 years ago

That’s an immature perspective. Actually, that’s not the most important litmus test; it’s whether you trust them completely to make good decisions with your life, kids if present and all your worldly life in their hands should you be incapacitated and that they can keep things together. Being insanely happy or at least content is a bonus.. but their job isn’t to make you happy, that’s your job. Another common antipattern: NRE lasts a year or two, so those new turnips expecting infatuation to sustain things and be “totally perfect” after their giant wedding is also a recipe for disaster.

slx26• 8 years ago

When you suffer from depression or just have a miserable life that feels like a very cruel and direct rejection from others. I'd suggest to complement that with "can you make the person life better or make the person happier?"

I can tell from your comments in this thread that you are exactly the opposite of a mean/cruel person, so this is a good example of what you said yourself: that even trying to be nice with others you might still come across like all the opposite.

Of course your point is still equally or more important, as it becomes harder to help others when you can't even make a good life for yourself. But giving can be many times life changing for others.

DoreenMichele5• 8 years ago

Funny, I've done a lot of good for other people while failing to make a good life for myself. Part of that is due to lack of reciprocity: Often, people I did things for didn't do anything for me in exchange, in part due to toxic sexism in many cases.

wilsonnb2• 8 years ago

The goal of the quiz is not to dump your less healthy friends, but to identify the people in your life who score the highest and to spend more time with them.

I really don't like the idea of trying to rank my friends like this. Not everything in the world needs to be quantified.

whyGaard• 8 years ago

Not everything needs to be quantified, but at the very least this sparks the intention to be mindful of how you interact with others, and how you allow them to interact with you.

L_Rahman• 8 years ago

I share your opposition to quantification for things that are so deeply human, but without a number scale or strict ranking, I suspect that if we asked ourselves whom among our group of friends we seek out for support and uplift there would some that immediately come to mind.

The goal is to know who those people are and spend more time around them. In a way I think this is the opposite of quantification.

J5892• 8 years ago

My Myspace top 8 from 2006 begs to differ.

laurex• 8 years ago

There is plenty of evidence supporting the idea that social connection leads to better health outcomes, and not just for older people. Modern living, especially in countries like the US, where many people move, live far away from each other, depend on social media to satisfy social impulses, and tend towards individualism and non-communal living, makes it harder to find meaningful social connection for many people, even urban dwellers, and can't be ruled out as a contributor to sub-par physical health and mental well-being.

tabtab2• 8 years ago

I gravitate toward people who like gallows humor: make fun of the organization and management. It's "positive" to us, we have a good 'ol time. Human nature is really F'd up in a Dilbert-esque way in the work world in such a way it begs to be lampooned. "Positive" is relative.

barking2• 8 years ago

One of the most entertaining forums I read is for a perennially under-performing football club. It's real no holds barred stuff, as much about themselves as anything else, for wasting their money season after season and never learning. By contrast forums where the vibe is to 'support the team' are dull and even oppressive.

tabtab2• 8 years ago

Could inspire a book: "The Joy of Sucking"

beenBoutIT2• 8 years ago

The worst thing about so many of these "positive people" is that their comments are meaningless and their opinions carry no weight. If everyone and everything everyone's doing is "great", "great" has become synonymous with "average","typical" and "unremarkable".

gromy2• 8 years ago

Yikes! Here are some books I’d recommend for you:

https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Advantage-Positive-Brain-Su...

https://www.amazon.com/Daring-Greatly-Courage-Vulnerable-Tra...

https://www.amazon.com/Courage-Be-Disliked-Phenomenon-Happin...

https://www.amazon.com/One-Thing-Surprisingly-Extraordinary-...

beenBoutIT2• 8 years ago

I don't view myself as a "negative person", although I've been repeatedly diagnosed as such by "positive people" for pointing out truths that they would have preferred to ignore indefinitely. At the end-of-the-day, these "positive people" make up the bulk of humanity and the universe is constantly ridding itself of them through the natural consequences of their actions.

adamsea• 8 years ago

positive != bullshit

enneff• 8 years ago

Exactly. It is possible can assess the same situation and emphasize either the negatives or the positives and be honest in both cases.

abakus• 8 years ago

Also they tend to downvote comments that do carry weight, so from this perspecitve, they are not that positive after all.

mmirate• 8 years ago

Indeed; if everything is special/important/priority/good, then nothing is special/important/priority/good. Words have meaning dually by the set of things they name and the set of things they don't.

dtran• 8 years ago

I enjoyed learning about moais, but the Blue Zone quiz at the end of the article was a complete non-sequitir for me.

I like the simple litmus test that wizardforhire mentioned (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17544755). Another one I like is WaitButWhy's "Traffic Test":

"The Traffic Test is passed when I’m finishing up a hangout with someone and one of us is driving the other back home or back to their car, and I find myself rooting for traffic. That’s how much I’m enjoying the time with them."

(from https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner-part-2.html)

Haul4ss2• 8 years ago

"You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with" -- Jim Rohn.

It's not literally true, but it's a great way of thinking about who you surround yourself with and the subtle ways they influence you.

I know I tend to pick up aspects of the people I spend a lot of time with. When we used to visit our family in Queens I'd come back talking like someone from Queens. When I had a boss who would badmouth the company a lot, I found myself also having a negative opinion of the company. Cynical friends made me cynical.

My boss now is a ray of sunshine. Just a delightful and decent human being, and I am a better person for being around him. I can only hope some of my positive characteristics rub off on others.

I'm a widower, and one of the ways that loss has changed me is that I am much more cognizant of, and grateful for, the other familial and platonic relationships in my life. I wouldn't be getting out of bed every day if not for my kids, family, friends, colleagues, and neighbors. I am surrounded by love and support.

I certainly have bad days, but I would not be where I am without the relationships in my life, and I absolutely believe in the power of those positive people to have a positive impact on me.

tpaschalis• 8 years ago

I certainly have bad days, but I would not be where I am without the relationships in my life, and I absolutely believe in the power of those positive people to have a positive impact on me.

Your first quote is something that stuck with me. And yes, looking back it's probably true!

Also, you sound like the kind of person that would spread the positivity to others around them, so keep it up, you're awesome!

Haul4ss2• 8 years ago

Also, you sound like the kind of person that would spread the positivity to others around them

Well, I wasn't always, but I'm trying to be now! :)

hashkb3• 8 years ago

This is an opinion article basing its conclusion on a collection of anecdotes. I'm not sure it meets the usual standard of "true" or "researched at all". I wish fewer op-eds got posted to HN.

_rpd• 8 years ago

I wish fewer op-eds got posted to HN

It's important to know what beliefs are circulating. They can have an impact regardless of truth value.

hashkb3• 8 years ago

There are other communities for that, and, I can read the newspaper itself. This is Hacker News.

RickJWagner• 8 years ago

True especially of social media.

ta12345678902• 8 years ago

Kind of unrelated directly to the article, but in reference to many comments - can't recommend these two books enough: The Charisma Myth and How to make friends and influence people (I know, maybe not the best title).

Those two books completely changed my life. They helped me become more confident, less socially anxious and be able to connect with people in a much deeper way than I was capable of before.

The first time I tried reading the How to make friends book, I couldn't really fully make sense of it or enjoy it (in fact I was offended that someone gave to me as a gift). It took reading the Charisma book and a lot of practice (yes, just reading these books won't help you, you'll need to put in a lot of work) to get to the point where the other book was helpful.

verywoke• 8 years ago

Hey as I don't have too much free time would you mind to recommend which book I should read first?

ta12345678902• 8 years ago

Definitely the Charisma book first. Helps with basic stuff, like dealing with anxiety and learning to be able to just be present in social situations. After you've gotten better at those things the How to make friends book becomes a lot more useful.

Senderman2• 8 years ago

fwiw, and this is going to sound incredibly cliché,

One thing I've found is that - people you're in relationships or freindships, of whatever kind, with - they put out a mix of positivity, negativity, whatever -

The only way to master the problem of people 'lifting you up' or 'bringing you down' is to own your own moods, and not ride the whimsy of positivity or negativity that other people are putting out towards you - then you can see other people's negativity for what it is - it might be their problems projected, their interactions with the world gone wrong, who knows - and you can help them - or choose not to.

There is negativity in the world, not negative people - you can avoid it, even successfully, but to be comfortable with it and navigate it well - that's a whole other world.

If you're not in a stable place emotionally, the advice in this article might apply, and I hope things get better for you.

All I know is I love my friends, including the one's who are hopelsss at being in any way encouraging. I see it as my problem and my job to be OK with them. And I think a lot of people share that attitude.

Pardon the rant. The topic got me worked up a bit.

kome• 8 years ago

Very well put, thank you!

There is an underlying utilitarian vision of life in the main article, that really twist me in the wrong way. Not everything is a market interaction and real friendship are a bit more complicated than that.

serpix• 8 years ago

Thank you! It seems you've done a lot of work to arrive where you are now. And it probably wasn't easy either. I see the world like this as well and it is great to read about like minded people!

AltVanilla• 8 years ago

Jordan Peterson has some good advice on this (not sure if he is liked around here). "Be Friends With Those Who Want Best For You" and "Be careful who you share good news with".

Some friends don't want you to try to succeed, because they are not trying. They would rather see you fail and say "see, that's what happens. That's why i don't try, as it just fails anyway". Its hard to tell such friends, good news. It makes them feel bad about themselves.

ghostbrainalpha• 8 years ago

Some interesting talk about Peterson here. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16188789)

I think in general he has some fans here. And those that aren't fans have pretty rational critiques of his appeal, without just devolving into pure partisan bias.

Personally I liked his talks on Youtube from Harvard, but didn't enjoy his book. It was like he was trying to cash in with a "Chicken Soup for The Soul" knockoff. It's not terrible, but not worthy of a philosopher and too geared to the mass market.

User23• 8 years ago

This reminds me of the parenting advice that the best thing you can do for a child is cause them to have a positive peer group. Pretty much everyone knows this intuitively, which is why "good school districts" and private schools command such hefty premiums.

The Power of Positive People

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