Nordic Ice Skating on Thin, Black Ice in Sweden Is an Art and a Science

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/activities/winter-sports/skating-thin-black-ice-creates-sound-nordic-spd/

by monort • 8 years ago

110 47 8 years ago

nationalgeographic.com

monort2• 8 years ago

Here is what happens, when he falls through ice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px5uQuRT3EE

StavrosK3• 8 years ago

Wasn't he looking? That thin patch was really obvious.

mongol• 8 years ago

Maybe in retrospect. But could be also "safe" ice can look like that?

erikpukinskis2• 8 years ago

If you want to be safe, you need to intentionally fall in a lot in order to practice getting out.

Generally true of all dangerous activities. This is the purpose of “play” you practice dangerous things in relatively safe, intentional “silly” space, so when you have an actual leopard trying to eat you, you’re not trying newbie stuff for the first time.

Xcelerate• 8 years ago

Interesting. It looks like he just uses those picks to keep clawing his way through thinner ice until he reaches thick enough ice that doesn't break. Seems like that could be dangerous if the thin ice goes on for long enough that you freeze before you reach a thicker region.

oh_sigh• 8 years ago

You're supposed to turn around and go back on to ice that you know is safe.

mcv2• 8 years ago

45mm isn't that thin, is it? As a kid, I always learned that ice had to be at least 5 cm thick. This is only half a cm less.

Sharlin4• 8 years ago

It leaves you with perilously little error margin though. You have to be very aware of spots of potentially weaker ice, like places with water currents. With such a small surface area, skates also create a much greater pressure against the ice than shoes, though I'm not sure how exactly that affects the dynamics in practice.

mcv2• 8 years ago

We wore skates too, obviously. Weak spots were generally recognisable by there being no ice at all, and we kept a safe distance from such spots.

A quick search turned up these guidelines for ice: http://www.natuurijswijzer.nl/ijsontwikkeling/ijsdikte/

Is says:

  0-4 cm: unsafe
  4-8 cm: strong enough for a single skater
  8-12 cm: suitable for larger numbers
  12-15 cm: time for the Elfstedentocht (a 200km skate marathon; we haven't had one in 20 years)

kzrdude2• 8 years ago

It's very popular in Sweden really, it has had the right kind of lakes and climate to often produce the conditions for it.

There's nothing "wild" about this, not more than taking a run in an actual forest.

Sharlin4• 8 years ago

There's also "wild swimming" [1], swimming in natural waters. From a Nordic perspective there's little "wild" to it but apparently it can be an exotic experience in other countries. I wouldn't be surprised if "wild running" was a thing somewhere, after all in many places like England finding an actual forest to run in can be highly nontrivial.

[1] http://www.wildswimming.co.uk/

steve_adams_86• 8 years ago

Where I live I know many people who do both of these things (including myself). But we're surrounded by water and forest! It makes good sense to get out into it. I have a 7mm wetsuit so I can swim year round.

badosu• 8 years ago

I don't understand, is there a way to assume you would swim in something that's not natural?

For me, in Brazil, surrounded by waterfalls and beaches it's not only common but also necessary for you to relax sometimes.

erikpukinskis2• 8 years ago

What’s not wild about running through an actual forest?

Someone2• 8 years ago

The forest could have markers indicating the track, could have bridges built to cross small streams, or even parts with paved (gravel or worse) paths.

daryldavisjr• 8 years ago

I’m curious, do people create elaborate illustrations on the ice or make any other use of it?

cleetus• 8 years ago

Searching youtube for ice skating on black ice led me to apetor a while ago - one of the few channels I subscribe to. There's something strangely soothing about how goofy this guy is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Q2jwEX11U&list=PL73A6AD7F0...

unwind• 8 years ago

I love that "Trygg" literally means "safe" in Swedish. :)

Epic aptonym.

Sharlin4• 8 years ago

PSA: Never go to thin ice, or ice of unknown thickness, without company, ice picks or claws [1], and a plan for how to get to warmth after a water excursion. Remember that ice strength and thickness depend on multiple factors and may vary rapidly from one spot to another. Make sure you know how to get out of water should you fall in, and how to safely assist a companion if they do.

[1] http://lakeice.squarespace.com/ice-claws/

dmos62• 8 years ago

A special note should be dedicated to river ice. The running water can pull one under the ice, which is very dangerous.

dghughes• 8 years ago

And ice is thinner where there is running water.

cseelus• 8 years ago

Here is the video without the very slow site: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3O9vNi-dkA

Jun8• 8 years ago

Mesmerizing video! A mathematician exercising predictive control over thin ice brings to mind Kislowski's wonderful Dekalog 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog:_One), which is my favorite among the set of ten.

JadeNB• 8 years ago

The current title here is "Nordic Ice Skating on Thin, Black Ice in Sweden Is an Art and a Science". The NatGeo title doesn't currently have "Nordic Ice" at the beginning, and it doesn't seem to parse (at least, not without a colon: "Nordic Ice:" or so). Is it really supposed to be there?

ian1321• 8 years ago

I live in Zürich and just met a gentleman who goes to Sweden and Russia every winter to skate on frozen lakes. I had never heard of this, but was fascinated by his videos, pictures, and stories.

sctb• 8 years ago

I'm fascinated by the description “laser-like” for this sound. Does this touch on a broader synaesthetic phenomenon or it based on the historical sci-fi presentation of laser/phaser guns? I suspect the latter.

monort2• 8 years ago

I think the first use of that sound was in War Of The Worlds in 1953, they didn't even had lasers at the time :) I couldn't find any explanation, how they arrived at the sound (it's supposedly just electric guitar + reverberation).

https://youtu.be/G5H4yK_tiGI?t=116

SOLAR_FIELDS• 8 years ago

Careful, the website hijacks the back button (at least on my mobile device. iPhone 7Plus.) One of the most infuriating design anti-patterns.

sorenjan• 8 years ago

It's a bit weird seeing this now, since we're currently experiencing a heat wave here in Sweden that's been going on for about two months now. It's around 30 degrees C and very little rain, so farmers have to send their cattle to early slaughter since there's no food for them. The water supplies are really low, and trees and grass have turned yellow.

jnurmine2• 8 years ago

Yeah, inside the forests it is dry and one can really see how some plants are struggling. It is a dry heat, barely any moisture at all. Today it was near +30 C. The ground with pine/spruce needles and moss smells fantastic though, something resembling warm cinnamon.

When one encounters a field or an opening with grass, it is more likely than not burnt, yellowish ferns are a norm rather than an exception at this time of the year, and ditches which used to have a stream of water are barren.

If the upcoming winter is dry without much snow, the ground water levels won't be replenished and, with the lack of rain, next year will be worse.

The high heat creates local thunders with apparently do not carry much rainfall. Lightning strikes seem to have started at least a few of this years forest fires.

Nokinside• 8 years ago

What makes it safe is the assumption that when you fall, it's not a big deal when you are prepared.

If you have been swimming in ice-water, you already know that you survive several minutes without a problem. Ice claws hanging from a neck strap make it easy to crawl into safety. You have dry clothes in watertight container in you backpack if you are far away from warmth, of course.

russell_h• 8 years ago

I was curious about ice claws and found this informative: http://lakeice.squarespace.com/ice-claws/

Edit: and if I'd read a few comments down I'd have found this without Google.

AngryData• 8 years ago

I was expecting something fancy compared to the barn spikes I carry on the ice with a name like ice claws, but nope they are basically the same damn thing.

oh5nxo2• 8 years ago

There seems to be a rule of thumb for black ice strength: kilograms = centimeters squared times 5. Seems to jibe with recommendations for a 80 kg walker (4 cm), 2000 kg car (20 cm) or big 48 ton truck (1 meter).

s0rce• 8 years ago

With less and less snow hitting the Sierra early in the winter season the lakes stay snow free longer with good ice. I've seen people out skating, particularly on the drier and colder Eastern Side. I think I'll try and go skating up near Carson pass this winter, maybe hike out to Winnemucca lake if I want to carry some skates in. Should be a nice change from hiking before snowshoe/ski season starts.

willmacdonald• 8 years ago

I did some of this at Hellasgården, Stockholm in January this year. The rising sun makes for a spooky video: https://youtu.be/WdmCIC2Hoks

After learning more about this, I would only go with other people now.

Bonus video: https://youtu.be/eGdvQVoQOUQ

oh5nxo2• 8 years ago

If there is no ice on the lake, how about water motocross. With a dirt bike, not an aquabike/waterjet. https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10298809 (finnish text).

Nordic Ice Skating on Thin, Black Ice in Sweden Is an Art and a Science

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