Ask HN: What are good tech jobs that don't require being good at interviewing?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15213795

by ccdev • 9 years ago

92 84 9 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

sotojuan• 9 years ago

Wrong question - the right question is "which companies don't have the typical whiteboard interview". Mine didn't, and it's a regular software engineer job.

Here's a list of some - never used it but was on here a while back:

https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards

ccdev10• 9 years ago

Wrong question - the right question is "which companies don't have the typical whiteboard interview".

Wrong assumption - the majority of my on-site interviews don't even use whiteboards. They involve discussing real world problems and work experiences with me. I still do not get offers from them.

karmakaze• 9 years ago

They involve discussing real world problems and work experiences with me.

This seems like a good interview process. If you're qualified for the position, then what part of the interview is working against you?

martijndwars• 9 years ago

To be honest, I agree with the parent that the question is wrong. No company wants employees that are bad at interviewing. No company wants employees that are bad at anything, in fact.

Maybe it helps to contact the company that rejected you and ask them why they rejected you. This would allow you to narrow down your weaknesses and improve these skills. I've never tried this myself, so I'm not sure how common such a request is, but it seems like a sensible thing to do.

brians• 9 years ago

Can you find a nearby hiring manager—someone who hires regularly—to give you an interview and tell you why you wouldn’t be hired?

I’d be happy to do this for acquaintances near me (Cambridge, Mass.)

fillskills3• 9 years ago

We don't have a typical white boarding interview. Based on your experience, we might send you a take home coding challenge.

35bge57dtjku• 9 years ago

How long would it take?

StavrosK• 9 years ago

I kind of hate that as well, given that I maintain multiple popular libraries, have a ton of code on Github (of actual web apps that you can use right now), etc. What can a take-home coding challenge tell you that you won't learn from actually looking at my production code?

ztbrown• 9 years ago

What's your company? Are you ok with remote work? Thanks in advance!

whipoodle• 9 years ago

Everyone is proud of themselves for not literally using a whiteboard these days, but they still want you to write code while someone watches. I think for a lot of people, in spirit that is not so different from whiteboards.

dabockster3• 9 years ago

Wrong question - the right question is "which companies don't have the typical whiteboard interview"

Wrong question. The right question is "which companies actually respond to you within a week of application submission". Those "reapply in six months if you don't hear anything" emails tell me a LOT about a company's real priorities.

brianwawok2• 9 years ago

I would get better at interviewing. I know sounds not helpful but its a useful skill.

HeyLaughingBoy• 9 years ago

Pretty much this. Once you get to the point that interviews are fun, you look forward to them.

carlmr• 9 years ago

I'd phrase it this way. If you're nervous and fumble interviews, don't stop going. Go to more interviews instead. After a while you'll be so used to it that your body stops reacting that way.

RickS• 9 years ago

Depends on what part of the interviewing process is slowing you down.

Your other comment indicates that your question is not "what jobs interview with day-to-day challenges rather than google-scale hypotheticals"

They involve discussing real world problems and work experiences with me. I still do not get offers from them.

The question should not be "how do I run from this problem"

It is first "how do i get a credible assessment of why I didn't receive offers"

and then "how do I build or repair that area of my skills"

This applies equally if not especially to "soft skills" aka "how am I perceived by other humans".

edit: I poked back into your history and it seems that you figured this out with your question from ~20 days ago. That's the right thread to pull IMO and it looks like that post got some responses. I'd say keep pushing in that area - sub one month is a very short timeline for both personal growth and varied interview rounds.

ccdev10• 9 years ago

My soft skills are good enough on the job. I hardly get complaints about communication issues with co-workers and also have taken part in client meetings at some companies, discussing their goals and requirements. I keep on track with everyone that is needed for a project.

But almost everything about soft skills on a job interview feels too orthogonal and dissimilar to my applied work soft skills. Interviews like that are more suited for sales jobs, I think. Sales skills seem like they have been put on a pedestal. Therefore I cannot see these interviews as an accurate representation of most soft skills at work.

Edit: Also about my older thread, are you referring to the one about returning to an office job after 2 years of being away from it? I really do feel like this is what I need and almost all the jobs I apply to require daily 9-5 office work. I'm a homebody and hang out only with 3 people regularly. It remains to be seen on the "when" of I'll get that kind of job.

abeyer2• 9 years ago

My soft skills are good enough on the job. I hardly get complaints about communication issues

This isn't about you, I don't know you, and you may well be the exception to this. But, given that; in my experience everyone I've ever met in person who claims that their social skills are not why their (not just coding) interview skills are lacking is wrong. Often they're wrong because they don't even realize it, because their peers know that communications skills are lacking and then don't even raise the issue to avoid the possibility of a (quite common) poor reception of the feedback. Don't assume the lack of criticism as an endorsement. If someone thinks you lack something technically but have strong communication, they'll tell you that. If someone thinks you lack communication skills, they'll do their best to avoid treading on the viper, because they don't know how you'll respond.

But almost everything about soft skills on a job interview feels too orthogonal and dissimilar to my applied work soft skills. Interviews like that are more suited for sales jobs, I think.

I'm not even 100% sure what you mean by that, but I read it as "I don't really need the skills you think I do." Again, I'm not sure that's what you meant, but as a disinterested third party, if I read it that way, I'd be surprised if some interviewers don't.

lprubin• 9 years ago

Nepotism can be your friend. Meet people through meetups, open source projects, conferences, non-profit volunteer work, etc. When people know and respect you already and you have an internal champion, the interview process often is much smoother. You'll be more confortable too when you know them. You might even bypass some of the process as well.

bshimmin• 9 years ago

I think the word "networking" (not usually a negative) would fit better than "nepotism" (almost always seen as a negative) here. Hiring your friends - ahead of other candidates who might be better qualified - might well be considered nepotism, but going out of your way to make friends with people in the hope that they might hire you probably isn't nepotism as most people would understand it.

ccdev10• 9 years ago

Yeah, I agree on this use of the word. "Nepotism" implies getting the job through a connection regardless of anything else, but networking implies getting a job through a connection that is a source of trust of their qualifications.

CoolGuySteve• 9 years ago

The problem is that "networking" as a term has been diluted to mean "introduce yourself to powerful strangers" as opposed to "build a network of people in your industry that respect you".

With a good network, you can find a job. With good networking, you have a nice Rolodex without much influence.

partycoder• 9 years ago

Referrals can be a good source of talent, but nepotism has a very destructive effect at a large since it denies opportunities to talent that deserves them.

mateo411• 9 years ago

Generally, nepotism refers to giving jobs or special treatment to people in your family. This is a good tactic but it requires having somebody else in your family working at a company that you are interested. This might not be possible.

You are referring to networking. This is very important and can definitely help you land a job.

sandworm1012• 9 years ago

The armed forces are screaming for tech people and really dont care about your interview skills. The US marines are even talking about dropping thier basic training requirements IOT get more tech people.

jarsin• 9 years ago

Don't they have low age requirements?

sandworm1012• 9 years ago

Each is different. No harm in asking.

abeyer2• 9 years ago

Yes. That said, most military recruitment requirements are requirements in the same way that "10 years of React experience" is a requirement... They ask for the world and make exceptions to get the people they want. But the bigger the exception, the more bureaucracy you should expect to wade through to make it happen.

abstractbeliefs• 9 years ago

The interview requirements may be less, but many lifestyle factor requirements are far more stringent.

Additionally, the military is unlikely to pay you favourably compared to the same job in civvy street.

tiggybear• 9 years ago

Work for yourself?

Whenever we need to hit consultants for some work, we NEVER make them do technical exercises. We just trust their word.

However, the people that want a steady paycheck are put through much more tedious tasks for less pay.

brianwawok2• 9 years ago

The last place I worked with consultant hiring.. an employee hire was like a full day of interviews.. consultant hire was 30 minute phone screen "Do you know what an ArrayList is"?

Logic being it was very easy to fire bad consultants. Employees it was more work.

redleggedfrog• 9 years ago

This might sound a little strange, but I would say programming. I have worked in the industry 25+ years now, and I've never had what I would call an interview. I've had informal lunches with the CIO, met the team at BBQ's, like that, but never anything more rigorous. On top of that, I'm fairly introverted, and don't have many friends, but I do have a large number of acquaintances, I'm known to be a good and loyal employee (I don't switch jobs near as often as the norm) and have kept up my skills (I hope) fairly well. I've gotten jobs because people knew about me, essentially, so it can be done.

I kind of fear when I actually have to do an interview. I'm hoping I make it to the end of my career before that happens.

ccdev10• 9 years ago

It seems like you had enough luck to find yourself in relatively long, stable positions for work. I have job-hopped through various startups and other small companies, never staying in one place longer than 2 years. I'm introverted as well, and therefore never put much work into building a network. The colleagues I do know, never have anything for me regarding jobs. Basically I'm only good enough for those riskier jobs but not good enough (apparently) for more stable, "corporate" places.

People don't know how hard it is to get a job offer until they are unemployed and don't have a good network. I would love it if I never have to worry about finding another job again.

dsuth• 9 years ago

This is similar to me, but for engineering. Getting jobs via networking is much, much easier than cold-calling an interview.

Talk to your friends and workmates, ex-managers etc. If you've done good work in the past, people will be happy to get you in on the fast track. Companies hate doing interviews, so anything they can do to streamline that process they will generally do.

I'd broaden that to networking in general. Tech presentations also raise your profile, especially with manager types who attend.

ccdev10• 9 years ago

Every friend, colleague and former manager that I talk to has either lead to an interview (so I still don't skip interviewing) which I don't pass, but most of the time they just give me the same basic reply of: "I don't know of any job openings but I'll keep an eye out". No matter what time of the year, no matter how they're doing.

I am at a loss for networking ideas.

jmcminis• 9 years ago

Founder, CTO. Lots of other requirements though.

yesimahuman• 9 years ago

Starting a startup. Honestly, the lack of control I felt at interviewing at the top tech firms back in college and my only average GPA was a big motivator for me to start my own business. I hated the idea that my career was out of my control and would depend on whether I could answer challenging interview questions under stress or my GPA/school. This was also at the peak of the ridiculous mythical word problems Microsoft, Google, et al were known for, and those were not my forte whatsoever.

Best decision I ever made

__julia__• 9 years ago

#RESPECT! that's a brave decision.

secfirstmd• 9 years ago

Agreed. Had setup a nonprofit before and was thinking about doing something different by joining a big commericial organsiation. Had the honour of being rejected by many of the biggest companies in the world - Google, Apple, Facebook, Stripe, Microsoft, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Statoil, Shell, KPMG etc. Its really quite impressive a list of organisations. :)

Decided "Ah well, may aswell go and startup another business." Haven't looked back since.

csomar• 9 years ago

Very short answer. I assume you have had certain success with your startup. Do you mind expanding a bit on your experience.

tedmiston2• 9 years ago

For another perspective, my GPA was at the top of my graduating class in CS but I still had a similar train of thought as you. I fundamentally philosophically disagreed with how broken interviewing in the tech industry is especially at the bigger companies.

nickthemagicman• 9 years ago

Whats the name of your business?

drumttocs82• 9 years ago

You are being interviewed to see if you have the technical skills to do the job, and to see how you well you interact with other people. You must learn to be confident and friendly. These are foundational skills.

ccdev10• 9 years ago

Why do some people (which includes me, I guess) have poorer foundational skills while being better at certain specialized field-specific skills, such as programming?

fundingshovel• 9 years ago

You most likely work on your field specific skills orders of magnitude more often/intensely. What have you done to develop your foundational skills in general? Where are you weak? Where are you strong? What have you studied recently to make them better?

drumttocs82• 9 years ago

I think it's common for us engineers- we care about the problem, the details. So that's what we focus on. And that can actually help in interviews- we can rely on our knowledge to give us the confidence we need. That sort of quiet confidence shows the interviewer that you can do the job. The rest of it is just treating the interviewer how you would want to be treated- with respect and kindness. That shows that you can get along with him and the rest of the team. That's it! That's all they're looking for.

tiredwired• 9 years ago

Startups and companies where technology is not their main product seem to have easier interview processes. If you can find a company that is contracting out their tech and wants to start developing in-house then they do not necessarily have a rigid tech hiring process.

kclay4• 9 years ago

I was just going to post something along this line.. I've been to the 3-4th stage many times it it all falls when I have to do a video call.. every time ( about 25 interviews so far over the course of 4months). At this point I'm starting to think its more of a "culture" fit then anything else which I really dont like to think about. All of these are remote jobs which is odd cause they dont even have to see me or know my race. Even tried to apply to local jobs, no luck.

But after having pass tech tests, multiple calls and had people very impress about my 10year career its hard to see anything else then the word "culture" in these instances.

busterarm• 9 years ago

At any in-person shop or gig you'd have to relocate for, that video call would be your 2nd stage.

I think you're a victim of the process and sheer numbers, tbh. Keep at it and you'll probably land something remote.

kclay4• 9 years ago

I guess so, but in one instance I had 2 video interviews in one day with a total of 4 devs( all of the devs of the team). So it seems like it was both a tech interview (which I answered all their questions and was impressed) and then a "culture" test.

Thru take home test passing, inital 2 calls with people then video calls afterwards just to fail just seems odd but maybe I'm overthinking it. Local interviews havn't been well either. They tend to fall apart in the second call (not video). Seems like most people dont do in-shop interview but all over the net now.

muzani• 9 years ago

All my jobs were from people I met. Even when they have some interview, I get offered the job before the interview, and the interviews are rigged to let me pass.

I normally get filtered out of phone interviews for some reason, with no technical questions. I do perfectly fine when it's a technical interview. I guess I just don't have an attractive personality.

Ask HN: What are good tech jobs that don't require being good at interviewing?

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