How to get hired

by mahipal • 16 years ago

100 61 16 years ago

frossie2• 16 years ago

Good grief. I guarantee you that if anybody contacted me every week asking if I have an unadvertised job for them, I'd file them in the "stalker" folder.

gvb• 16 years ago

Reread the paragraph before the one you reference: "Vary your message. Sometimes ask advice. Sometimes give advice. But always make it clear how much you want to work there."

Reread two paragraphs previous to that: "Ideally, you could be more specific, telling them ways you could improve one of their projects, services, or products."

In other words, don't be a stalker, but do be persistent, helpful, and interesting.

frossie2• 16 years ago

Reread the paragraph before the one you reference: "Vary your message"

Don't matter. Still annoying if you are doing it every week.

In other words, don't be a stalker, but do be persistent, helpful, and interesting.

Most people overrate their ability to be interesting or helpful, and "persistent" is just too annoying. And cold-calling multiple times is so beyond rude, I can't even begin to grasp why anyone would advise it.

The idea that I would not have an open job call just because some dude has been pestering us every week for the last year... I find this baffling.

Perhaps things are different in SV.

Edit: I just remembered where I'd found this better phrased:

http://www.cluewagon.com/2009/09/calling-to-follow-up-hand-m...

Quote: "It’s not about being the most attention-seeking candidate. It’s about being the most qualified candidate. If it’s not, you’re applying to the wrong company."

sync• 16 years ago

You have a "stalker" folder?

wildmXranat• 16 years ago

I know, eh. Tagging is clearly the way to go.

amh• 16 years ago

My current employer once interviewed someone who brought in public photos of the departmental director and printed out webpages relating to stuff he did at previous jobs, I guess to prove that she was interested in what we do. She also made weird comments about visible personal possessions lying around in cubicles. Super creepy.

She didn't get the job.

dcurtis• 16 years ago

Warning: this only works if you are genuinely good at what you do.

chime• 16 years ago

Also, it only applies if you really really want to work for someone else. Most people just want to make 60-120k working 40-hour weeks. If you just want to get a job that has a high pay to work ratio, you should beef up your resume/credentials instead. If you really really want to work hard so you can succeed some day in the future, a startup might be your best bet.

btmorex• 16 years ago

Maybe. It seems to be a "how to get hired" article that only takes into account the company's interests though. Specifically, focusing all your effort on one company is ridiculous.

If you're genuinely good at what you do, you should try hard to get at least two offers. Not so that you can ping pong back and forth between companies and try to eek out the most money possible, rather just hinting to companies that other companies are interested in you is usually good enough to get a decent offer without any hassle.

uast232• 16 years ago

If someone is really good at what he does, he would not waste his time doing whatever the author suggests

motters2• 16 years ago

I'd agree. If you've already built up a high reputation in some area and are a well recognised person in that particular field then possibly the pestering strategy might work - especially if you can provide genuinely relevant hints and tips.

However, I think in the large majority of cases the pestering strategy isn't going to work, because cold calling multiple times soon beings to appear rude.

qq66• 16 years ago

The picture that accompanies the article is ridiculously cute (though totally irrelevant) :)

euroclydon2• 16 years ago

What is so good about this? It's straight out of the getting hired 101 stuff that most folks heard in college.

What about spending your time becoming someone worth hiring? Then moving to an area where they are hiring folks who do what you do? I could see the advice in the article working for a non-technical person, like a sales guy, but who is that passionate about working? "My dream is to come into your office five days a week and sit at one of your desks and work!"

This is just more propaganda from hiring managers with a financial stake in the hire. How are you going to negotiate salary after begging for a job for three months?

My advice: do what you love doing, whether in your current company, or in your copious unemployed time, then present yourself as someone who is very good at X; don't beg.

mattm2• 16 years ago

> This is just more propaganda from hiring managers with a financial stake in the hire. How are you going to negotiate salary after begging for a job for three months?

Agree. Derek Sivers normally has good advice but this is biased. This benefits the advisor more than the advisee.

oz2• 16 years ago

"How are you going to negotiate salary after begging for a job for three months?"

That was my problem with the article as well. It puts you in a position of weakness/subservience. Most people will take advantage.

My resume is a PDF document, black background with orange borders and text. The pages advance like PowerPoint slides. The headings are Who I am, What I know, What I've done. The whole thing reads like a story. In the very first section, Who I am, I tell them that I'm evolution's gift to humanity. I carry that same playful, yet knowledgeable attitude into the interview.

I sent it out once last year, and I'm at that job typing this now. My boss is quite a character, so he likes that sort of thing. I'll be sending it out to some companies this week, and see what happens.

WilliamLP• 16 years ago

> Who I am, I tell them that I'm evolution's gift to humanity.

Kind of like appendicitis and back pain?

iamdave• 16 years ago

I'd love to take a look at this, if nothing else than to see a resume with a twist. Do you mind? Email is in the profile

danielharan2• 16 years ago

"Most people will take advantage"

If you're going to research companies though, find some that are going to be fair. You don't have to beg to be persistent, and if you have ideas for how to improve processes and understand the business, you will be able to negotiate a decent salary.

JoachimSchipper• 16 years ago

It depends on what you want to do. Me, I really like cryptography, for now; I accepted a one-year contract at sub-market rates (i.e. the usual PhD salary) to work in that field.

There are, perhaps, five or six employers in the Netherlands who employ crypto researchers, and these people didn't actually have an opening. I admit that it's not the best job from a business perspective (little job security, highly specialized knowledge, sub-market salary) but I really like it.

(Of course, a "Django guru" or "C++ wizard" has a lot more options and might want to use a different strategy...)

danielharan2• 16 years ago

You went to a better college, that's not what they taught me. They herded us to services to improve our resumes, and told us to check their job boards and other such bullshit.

I've done what Derek suggests. It's not begging, it works, and the salary I was offered was more than fair.

I'm currently hiring for my startup. Someone who showed keen interest like this would have a much better chance at getting hired.

antidaily• 16 years ago

I'd hire someone who took this approach (assuming he/she was qualified). They're motivated and enthusiastic. Which can be hard to find.

Tichy3• 16 years ago

Or maybe they are just really good liars.

Tichy3• 16 years ago

The dog picture spoils it all, or was that the point? Basically, prove you are a good dog, and you'll be hired?

billswift3• 16 years ago

I'm not sure because the picture is a bit blurry, but whoever owns that dog should consider reducing the amount he feeds it. It looks rather over-weight.

Wilfred• 16 years ago

I assumed it was a tenacity thing -- note the dog has something in its teeth and is presumably very reluctant to let go.

Tichy3• 16 years ago

Would perhaps have worked better for displaying tenaciousness if the something wasn't a pink teddy bear :-)

uast232• 16 years ago

I have never read a "how to get hired" book ever; and if those books sound like this, I am so thankful that I did not read it during my college. What is the crux of whole write-up? Is it trying to say that anybody who keeps stalking a company receptionist/HR gets a job!!! This can give a serious misconceptions to people who are looking for a job.

ulrich• 16 years ago

You will get hired with this approach, yes. But it is the best way to destroy your own value. If someone is constantly asking for a job at this special company, he is also willing to make a lot of compromises for it.

As the author stated, this is an "employer's point of view".

ibejoeb• 16 years ago

Derek's a bright guy, and I respect him. He doesn't even know me. To anyone consider trying this: don't let this advice land you a restraining order. I just thought I'd share an anecdote:

I had a applicant do this, including the "in-person" bit. The poor girl in HR thought she had a stalker, and I didn't appreciate the incessant badgering. Don't call from different numbers, use fake names, and state different agendas to talk to people.

vsync• 16 years ago

> The poor girl in HR thought she had a stalker

Sounds like she's got a bit of an ego...

paulreiners• 16 years ago

To tell you the truth, I'd feel like a nut case saying something like "You are my favorite company. It's my dream to work for you. If you have any aspect that could use a little help, let me do it, and I promise you it'll thrive. I'm that passionate about this."

motters2• 16 years ago

I'm not so certain that this is really good advice in the modern job market. Pestering people continually may not be a great strategy. If I was the company guy at the end of the phone taking very similar "I want a job" calls from the same person all the time I'd be inclined to dismiss them as a loony, even if their qualifications looked good on paper (or in an email).

In the modern era I'm not sure that it's necessarily a good idea to pin all your hopes and job finding efforts onto a single company. Probably it's wiser to consider a range of companies, and not appear to be suffering from OCD even if you really do love the companies you're dealing with.

Also, from the early part of my own career I know that people who are genuinely eager and somewhat naive can also get horribly exploited, so if pestering succeeds then be careful that you're not just being used like a throwaway consumable.

mattm2• 16 years ago

In my experience, it is actually better to be nonchalant about wanting to work for a particular company. People respond better to you if they know you're interested yet have other options.

mcknz• 16 years ago

I have won bullfights in San Juan, cliff-diving competitions in Sri Lanka, and I have earned trust in the Kremlin. I have played Hamlet, I have performed open-heart surgery, and I have spoken to the Messiah.

But, I have never gone to college.

MicahWedemeyer• 16 years ago

The approach described is ridiculous, and I'm glad to see that so many others here on HN see it the same.

zacharyz• 16 years ago

Or you can try another approach: demonstrate value to the company by finding solutions to problems they didn't realize they had in the first place.

If you are a designer - offer a mock up with descriptions of how your design is an improvement.

If you are a programmer - provide bug fixes or build a feature that the company's product lacks.

Provide value and make yourself indispensable so that they will want to hire you before you even ask.

Don't just approach the company asking "what can I do for you?" instead approach them with "I respect your company, here are some solutions that I think will benefit you. Let me know if there are any other ways that I can help."

j_baker• 16 years ago

Somewhat Off-topic: Assuming that I disagree with his advice to only go for one company, is it reasonable to politely decline to answer when they ask what other companies I'm applying with? I always feel a little bit uncomfortable answering that question, and I can't necessarily express why.

tomjen3• 16 years ago

Counter with: what other people are you hirering?

todayiamme2• 16 years ago

Perhaps he is just trying to say something else? Albeit in a really bad way. In some ways the post is just too vague, but I see it this way; constantly remind that organization that you are of some value, which isn't such bad advice at the end of the day.

I recently read Dale Carengie's book. Although, I started reading it with a WTF-Is-This? point of view, but I've fallen in love with his idea. I think that he has an important point. People, like everyone else, that make up those companies are only interested in themselves, in order to make them follow your path you have to be interested in the. Instead of just kissing someone's ass this means actually making contribution to that person be it in their work, or personal lives.

Most of us would walk away from that article with an idea of counterfeit charisma, but the real deal is something quite different. Something that all of us sense, but cannot define. Take a look at this article he linked to (http://sivers.org/tom-williams), which simply made my night. That person had the drive and the talent to do something, but he short circuited a process that would take years upon years to achieve, and I think that there is a lesson in there for all of us to learn.

billswift3• 16 years ago

Which Carnegie book? I've read 2 of his; I liked How to Stop Worrying and Start Living better than the more widely known How to Win Friends and Influence People, but they are both somewhat useful.

todayiamme2• 16 years ago

I read How to Win Friends and Influence People.

jseliger• 16 years ago

This kind of thing makes me crazy: "It doesn't matter if they're not hiring."

If it's a small company... there's a good chance they're really not hiring. My family runs a consulting business, and our website says we're not hiring: http://seliger.com/faq.html#anchor6 . But we get people who send us e-mails (hire me!), to which we reply, "we're not hiring," and then call us and say the same thing, which gets a very fast hang up.

When people do this, they're wasting their time and our time. But they do it anyway. It doesn't matter how smart you are: we're still not hiring, even if you do this: " Learn all about them. Read every page of their website. Become a customer. Read every article about them. Study and memorize this info."

zackattack• 16 years ago

I know a guy who did this and ended up getting hired at the NHL. After 6 months of pestering, they started him as an intern; he's now an organization man slowly climbing the corporate ladder.

ufomuffin• 16 years ago

For some types of jobs this would work, people looking for the all the time motivated and enthusiastic, but it looks more like "how to be annoying" manual.

Arun2009• 16 years ago

Alternatively, you could work HARD at being bloody good at what you do.

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