Are dating websites past their prime?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/26/AR2010062600189.html

by mattrjacobs • 16 years ago

59 67 16 years ago

andrewvc• 16 years ago

This article asks some interesting questions, but provides few numbers. The big question isn't "are paid dating sites dying". I think the answer is clearly yes, but quite slowly.

The real question is about free sites like okcupid.com and plentyoffish.com , sadly, they have no numbers about these sites.

Volscio3• 16 years ago

Speaking as someone who just recently started using match.com (after the end of a string of long relationships), it seems to me that:

1) dating sites are the perfect example of the benefit of pseudonymity for allowing people to choose how much to reveal about themselves while still being attractive

2) dating sites rely on geographical favorability. I live in DC so as a single guy it works EXTREMELY well. But I hear it's not as great for DC women. But DC is known for having far more highly-educated single women than any other city. But would a dating site work as well in smaller communities where people marry out of high school and generally keep their social circle their whole lives? Is NYC too much of a social cauldron for dating sites to work?

3) Facebook hook-ups seem to work mostly if you are being hooked up with a friend of a friend, so the initial relationship is being built upon referral instead of semi-blind dates.

smokinn• 16 years ago

I would be very wary of spending money on paid dating sites. There are just too many stories about fraud: http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts2493442.aspx (Google will find you many more)

okcupid and plentyoffish are much much better options.

And Yahoo Personals and Match.com definitely aren't the only ones. I've heard of other paid dating sites doing the same. Of course these are only rumors which is why it never gets very far in court but it's enough for me to never want to spend my money on paid sites. The incentives to move into fraud in paid dating are very very strong.

jquery2• 16 years ago

Methinks the free sites doth protest too much. I've used Plentyoffish, Okcupid, and Match.com. Only Match.com was a fraud-free experience. Sure, a paywall induces a motivation for 1st-party fraud, but it drastically reduces the motivation for 3rd-party fraud. Someone who solves both will become a rich individual.

For the record, I met my beautiful girlfriend of two years on Match, so count me as biased. :)

Volscio3• 16 years ago

I've had a pretty awesome experience on match.com, but I appreciate the advice.

gaius• 16 years ago

POF is entirely financed by banner ads from paid dating sites.

joe_the_user• 16 years ago

Yes,

Facebook is a terrible platform for meeting people because it impels you to reveal too much, reveal it too broadly and doesn't let you control the order in which the revelation takes place.

Dating reveals the chink in Fb's conception of the single identity. Since at least the mid 20th century, sociologists were described modern society as resting on a single-person/multiple-roles system as opposed to simpler societies resting on single-person/single-role. We've only going further in this and Internet sites eventually have to facilitate this rather than forcing a single identity on people (something that Facebook has apparently made part of it's agenda).

psyklic• 16 years ago

Regarding Facebook hook-ups -- I get a LOT of FB friend requests from people I haven't met who usually share a few mutual friends. This is how FB is used as a dating service, from my experience.

Also, some people create profiles specifically made for dating, where they post some pictures of themselves and basic facts. Of course this is a cheap maneuver -- they want to see someone's complete profile, while the other person only gets to see a "fake" one.

jey• 16 years ago

tl;dr: The boring old corporate behemoths aren't growing anymore, therefore online dating is dead.

They might as well have written an article about how TV is dead because nobody buys tube TVs anymore.

Match.com is an awful, awful user experience. It's a wonder that they're still able to fleece so much money out of people.

uast232• 16 years ago

It sounds contradictory, because I think dating sites are yet to reach their prime, let alone having past it already.

dotcoma• 16 years ago

are you talking about the current dating sites? really?

uast232• 16 years ago

I mean anything.. current/old.. the sites which targetted "dating" in specific were never able to succeed, unless the social networking came into picture.I see "dating" and "social network" as 2 different things. How many people actually log in onto a dating site with a hope that they will actually get a genuine date!.I think the number is pretty less. Actually speaking "social netorking" sites generate more traction in the dating world than the actual "dating" sites.

ca98am79• 16 years ago

I strongly recommend okcupid.com. In my opinion it is the best dating site, especially for hackers - they even let you A/B test your photos. I'm a complete introvert/nerd and I've used their site with a lot of success. It is by far the best overall user experience out of all of the various dating sites - and it's free. Their blog is great, too: http://blog.okcupid.com

9oliYQjP4• 16 years ago

I have a date lined up from OKCupid. One word of caution, but this goes for online dating in general. It's taken me 6 months to land a first date. In real life (err I guess offline) it's easier for me to land a date than it is online. So, I suggest using online dating to augment finding dates offline in a more traditional sense. It is far easier for people to be picky online than it is offline.

_pius• 16 years ago

It's taken me 6 months to land a first date.

What do you mean by that exactly? Are you saying you've been talking to one person for 6 months before the person decided to meet you for a date? Or are you saying that you've simply been on the site for 6 months before connecting with someone for a first date?

If it's the former, you're doing it wrong.

If it's the latter, you may need to do some additional work on your profile. There's a dramatic difference in the success of good profiles versus just "ok" ones.

sangaya• 16 years ago

I also used OKCupid to augment my offline dating attempts. While the offline approach landed several more dates with a wider variety of women, the online approach landed me with my current Fiance. We've been together 4 years now and are getting married early next year. YMMV, but it worked for me :)

warpwoof2• 16 years ago

I'm not trying to be harsh, but you're doing it wrong.

I'm not particularly gifted in the looks department, but I can get about 1 date a week. How? Testing and speed. Here are a few tips..this advice isn't really making any assumptions about you..it mostly is a result of mistakes I've made and have seen other guys make.

Testing:

-Photos: ask friends to help pick the best ones, take some new ones, use OKCupid's photo-testing service, etc.

-Profile: I probably went through 5 complete rewrites, followed by a lot of constant tweaking. I think the biggest mistake most guys make is being way too serious in their profile. You've really got to keep it light and playful. Sure, be authentic and show who you are, but wait until after a few dates before getting all deep. Just have fun.

-Messages: Play around with the type of message you sent. Try some serious, try some playful, try some ridiculous/absurd. You'll see what tends to work more. I'm assuming you're doing more than just saying "hey what's up," that will just get you ignored.

Speed:

Don't write long messages implying you think you two are soulmates. The worst thing you can do is get hung up on hoping this one person with a great profile will reply. Getting into this kind of pattern will make you think way too hard about what to write to them for your first message. Look for interesting profiles, write a quick message, move on. You've got to get a good volume of messages out there, don't spend too much time on a particular profile.

EDIT: Forgot to mention one more thing, take it offline as soon as possible. Don't let the messages drag on..if someone replies to me I usually ask to meet up for a drink in the 2nd message I send.

kadavy3• 16 years ago

There's no reason it should take you 6 months to find a date online (though you are using OKCupid, which tends to attract emotionally unavailable women, IMO).

I don't want to write too much, because it's all pretty much been written.

PROFILE: be funny, but most importantly, end with a "call to action": http://www.onlinedatingmatchmaker.com/how-to-write-an-online...

FIRST MESSAGE: keep it short. It's called "the one-line hook" http://www.onlinedatingmatchmaker.com/match-messages/

CLOSING THE DATE: make very specific suggestions, pick a place in her neighborhood http://www.onlinedatingmatchmaker.com/how-to-get-a-date-onli...

billpaetzke• 16 years ago

Dude, I signed up three weeks ago. And I've already gone out with three smart, hot girls. And I have several more smart, hot girls in queue for the next few weeks. I am on CLOUD NINE! Cloud 9, I tell you! OKCupid rocks. Many girls on there are smart and hot and like nerdy guys (aka us here on HN).

Right now, I'm using it to figure out what I want in a woman. I have a rough idea. But going on lots of dates with several women over a short period of time should give me a better idea. And hey, maybe one of them will turn out to be "the one." I have no expectations though. Just taking it day by day. (FYI--I'm 26/m and live in Los Angeles)

I can consult you on your OKCupid profile & messages. $100/hr =P

alttab• 16 years ago

I took the recommendation for OKCupid from a hacker friend I have in Palo Alto (I'm in Austin), and I met the woman of my dreams.

This was over a year and a half ago. We are engaged, and we close on our first house on Friday. OKCupid was great, I met my girl within the first 2 weeks, and we couldn't be happier.

I've tried numerous other sites both paid and free and didn't like the mix of those on there as much as OKCupid.

georgieporgie3• 16 years ago

If you haven't read the OKCupid's blog post, "Why You Should Never Pay For Online Dating," I highly recommend doing so. If you're contemplating online dating, that is.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2010/04/07/why-you-should-...

Interesting points: * "you are 12.4 times more likely to get married this year if you don't subscribe to Match.com"

* the severe male/female imbalance ("sausage fest") leads to a "desperation feedback loop" where men spam more and more women, with fewer and fewer responses.

In my opinion, with the rise in social networking platforms, dating sites are dead or dying - at least for 'mainstream' use. Even OKCupid, I think, will be pointless as people learn to leverage Facebook for dating.

reader5000• 16 years ago

Facebook is certainly useful in facilitating dating with people you have already met irl, but I dont see it used for generating dates with people you have not already met.

Although I am curious if anybody has counter-experience on this :D

nostrademons2• 16 years ago

Yeah, the social mores on FaceBook seem to frown upon random contact with lots of strangers. It's good for maintaining relationships, not so good for starting them.

I've noticed a bunch of friends either getting married or beginning serious LTRs after meeting online, though. They usually fall into two categories.

1. A set of mutual friends of them say "Hey, you two would be perfect for each other," introduce them, and then the relationship blooms through FaceBook or old-fashioned e-mail.

2. They're both participants at a "niche" online forum or social networking site, and then end up meeting in person eventually and take it from there.

I think the latter situation is way, way underreported. We pay attention to the big social sites like FaceBook and Twitter and the big dating sites like eHarmony and Match, but there's an enormous long-tail of niche sites that toss up a website and a forum and build a community. You can find a fansite for virtually every celebrity, every TV show, every sport, many of the more popular books, and even niche professional interests like startups and programming language design. Many of these grow very close, tight-knit communities, and when those communities are of mixed gender, it's very common for some dating to occur.

Heck, if HN weren't overwhelming male, I bet we'd see some Hacker News couples. There've already been a bunch of "Founder Dating" sites spun off from it.

_cbsz• 16 years ago

During the course of my freshman year in college (2005-2006), I received 2 or 3 completely unsolicited date requests from women via Facebook, all of which went well. Despite being single for significant portions of the remainder of my college career, I received none after that year. I've conjectured that people felt safer interacting on Facebook back when it was only open to college students.

dmd• 16 years ago

I married the girl I found on Facebook.

We met when I searched Facebook for 'Cryptonomicon', and she was the only result. (This was April 2004, so there were maybe a couple thousand people on all of Facebook.)

We moved in together a few weeks later, and got married in 2006.

stcredzero2• 16 years ago

Even OKCupid, I think, will be pointless as people learn to leverage Facebook for dating.

The swinger-ish nerdhemian folks I know who like OkCupid seem to use OkCupid as an alternative Facebook. One where they don't have to worry so much about their parents or not-so-close coworkers.

HeyLaughingBoy• 16 years ago

swinger-ish nerdhemian folks

That's the most ridiculous phrase I've seen today. It also perfectly describes me 10 years ago :-)

georgieporgie3• 16 years ago

> The swinger-ish nerdhemian folk

I wanted to except some category of people, but I couldn't think of how to name the group without sounding judgmental. I agree with your sentiment.

jules3• 16 years ago

While that post is interesting and some points apply only to paid dating sites, they didn't mention how likely you are getting married though okcupid.

georgieporgie3• 16 years ago

Yeah. I thought it was inferred that it basically sucks to be a guy on any dating site. They're actually doing their best to help, though, with photo results, analysis of what makes a 'successful' email, etc.

Facebook has the unique, unbeatable advantage of being more evenly (more, outright?) female. Now we just have to get over the 'creepy/weird/scary' nuances of meeting people through non-traditional channels.

skbohra• 16 years ago

wondering why would someone ever go to a dating website, seriously, can't imagine that in my wildest dream. And do people pay for it? Seems it is a thing for the past generation. We aren't convinced.

jsz0• 16 years ago

Think of it like a bar at closing time. Most of those people are not looking for true love -- they just want a casual hookup.

kelnos• 16 years ago

Apparently your wildest dreams aren't very wild.

pdx• 16 years ago

I married my ex-wife from eharmony. (thanks for the compatibility match guys!) I married my current wife, and the mother of my two children, using yahoo personals. I also dated using match.com

In my opinion, dating sites are still extremely efficient ways of meeting people. I exclude eharmony, both from personal bias, and from the fact that they don't allow you to really search the database.

After you leave college, real life meetings become much more complicated. The bar scene is a lottery. How likely is it that you'll actually coincide in time and space with somebody who you would be happy with, and then how likely is it that you'll even get to talk to them if they are there when you're there? Grocery stores and other non-traditional meeting places, I personally avoided bothering women in, assuming there should be some neutral ground where a woman might wish to be left alone.

For me, I wanted college educated women who had opinions about politics and whose opinions I shared. I wanted women with no children, who lived within 50 miles of me and didn't smoke or do drugs, but who did drink socially, wanted children, had traveled the world some, and were not strongly religious. I wanted women who enjoyed outdoor sports such as scuba, skydiving, and rock climbing. I wanted women who didn't own small yap dogs.

Can you imagine bumping into women like this randomly? But with a dating site, it became so much easier.

I still went out on a lot of dates that were bad matches, but I definitely skewed my chances of finding somebody I could respect and have fun with by taking the random chance aspect out of the equation.

EDIT: The article doesn't actually disagree with this. It's saying that paid dating sites will lose out to unpaid. I was responding to the HN title which derides all dating sites.

perokreco• 16 years ago

Your analysis excludes the fact that the sampling of people you meet is not uniform but biased according to what you do. The chances of meeting women who do outdoor sports is extremely high if you do them yourselves, you are more likely to meet a girl like you want in a bar than in a church, etc. My point is that bumping into a girl like that randomly is actually very high, as long as you don't spend your life only at home or at work.

rikthevik• 16 years ago

I agree completely. If you love X (and it's a social activity), keep doing X and odds are pretty good you'll eventually meet someone you like. Worked for me.

kadavy3• 16 years ago

Great idea in theory, but what are you supposed to do in the meantime? "Online Dating Can At Least Be Practice": http://www.onlinedatingmatchmaker.com/online-dating-can-at-l...

yardie• 16 years ago

I met my wife at the hospital while waiting for vaccinations before a trip to Africa. She was there for the same thing. How fortunate is that?

lionhearted• 16 years ago

> Grocery stores and other non-traditional meeting places, I personally avoided bothering women in, assuming there should be some neutral ground where a woman might wish to be left alone.

So many of the single women in my social circle complain they can never meet decent guys and would kill to be talked to be a decent, intelligent guy at the grocery store.

Worst-case scenario is a 15 second disturbance of minor flattery following by each of you carrying on with your day. Really, that's the worst case scenario. Really.

nitrogen• 16 years ago

Maybe the disconnect between single men and women could be resolved by a survey that asks a random sampling of men and women when they think it would be appropriate to approach or be approached by a potential SO, and finding the discrepancies. For example, if it is found that most "decent" men think it's rude to approach a woman at location X, but most "decent" women would prefer to be approached at location X, the men could be told to change their behavior. Maybe someone can suggest this to OkCupid (if it hasn't already been done); it seems they do a lot of statistical research already.

Tichy3• 16 years ago

I am guessing you haven't approached women much? Your "worst case scenario" only applies if they actually think you are a decent guy up to their standards. Otherwise they might be offended that you even dare to talk to them (best case scenario: they just pretend they didn't see or hear you).

Not that I advise against approaching women, just saying.

Goladus3• 16 years ago

> So many of the single women in my social circle complain they can never meet decent guys and would kill to be talked to be a decent, intelligent guy at the grocery store.

Tell them to take the initiative, then. Make eye contact, smile, and make a comment to start a conversation. Most women are far better at that than men, anyway, especially in a place like a grocery story where most of the time if a guy takes the initiative he comes off desperate.

sandipagr2• 16 years ago

I really didn't know dating sites were this successful...hmm time to jump in..off to make a profile :)

watt• 16 years ago

The analogy with peak oil is somewhat incorrect, because new people are being born (and enter dating scene subsequently) all the time. Dating sites will not run out of people.

(As contrast, new oil is not being "made". Once it's all pumped dry, it's over.)

Are dating websites past their prime?

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