Breath of the Wild and the ethics of amiibo hacking

https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/12/15223338/zelda-breath-of-the-wild-nintendo-amiibo-hacking-ethics

by Tomte • 9 years ago

39 48 9 years ago

jmcdiesel3• 9 years ago

I see no moral delimma.

This is nothing more than a cheat code... They are, in effect, rewarding you for having a correct NFC code, thats all. If you obtain that, you have it.

SerpentJoe• 9 years ago

As an implementation detail that's true out of necessity, but the simple English explanation of the mechanic would be "they are rewarding you for having an amiibo", not for having an NFC code. You wouldn't say "the passwords on Apple's databases are there to reward intruders who possess the correct password", right?

saghm2• 9 years ago

I guess I just feel like there's a lot less harm done in hacking Apple's database than there is in giving your video game character an extra outfit to wear or horse to ride.

jmcdiesel3• 9 years ago

The key difference here being the lack of victim, that makes your argument void.

HarryHirsch• 9 years ago

This is nothing more than a cheat code...

In the real world we'd call this doping.

jmcdiesel3• 9 years ago

In the real world, doping affects others around you. In a video game, there is no victim.

tinus_hn• 9 years ago

It's like cheating on a game of solitaire. Nobody cares.

ColinDabritz• 9 years ago

This is a wonderfully complicated mix of in game rewards, but they aren't DLC, some have exclusive in game rewards you can't get elsewhere. You can buy some Amiibo retail, but others which unlock exclusives in a brand new game are locked behind owning collectibles which aren't retail-available any more (and expensive from third party resellers). Some of the items are cosmetic, nice callbacks to older games and similar. Others provide in game advantages.

That makes the ethical questions very challenging to address. Personally I feel more 'ok' with hackery for the items that aren't available retail, but I hate 'pay to win' in games as well. It's hard to articulate how I feel about the situation. I think the article is spot-on that making these available in DLC packs or something as well would clarify the situation a lot.

christoph2• 9 years ago

Nintendo are clever with how they limit the availability of some Amiibos. The real value of the Amiibo is really in the actual collectability/rarity of the figurine. You can then make the figure more collectable as time goes on my linking it to specific, valuable in game rewards. All giving more value to brand Nintendo as time goes on.

What's a real stroke of genius though is that they make the packaging in a way so that you can't scan the Amiibo without unboxing it - therefore reducing it's monetary value. You end up with the real Nintendo fans feeling very compelled to purchase two of each - 1 for keeping boxed and 1 for actually using in games.

eridius5• 9 years ago

Why must "real Nintendo fans" keep a boxed copy?

pdkl95• 9 years ago

Nintendo are clever with how they limit the availability

Creating a market for scalpers is "clever"? This is one of the most efficient ways to create (even more) toxicity in the gaming community. Add premium items and severely limiting their availability means they are trying to create "have"/"have-not" classes that resent each other. A brand isn't going to increase in value if everyone starts associating the brand with community infighting and toxicity.

Incidentally, HN readers may like Jim Sterling's episode about amiibos from a couple years ago. Warning: very strong language and rude gestures. Second Warning: the bit after the credits is very loud... and some might consider it designed to be as annoying as possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE-orx_HTfE

stordoff• 9 years ago

All giving more value to brand Nintendo as time goes on.

Does it? Personally I find it extremely off-putting - pieces of content are getting locked behind expensive figures that I have no interest in owning, and that frequently aren't even purchasable from Nintendo anymore. Making your content difficult and expensive to acquire puts me off the brand as a whole.

Take Toon Link in the UK for instance. I can pay £16.78[1] to import it from the US, from a seller who has no reviews, or pay a ridiculous mark-up (£39.99 upwards[2]) and still end up having to use a third-party seller. Neither of those is a particularly attractive option.

[1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00Q6A57C4/ref=dp_... [2] https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B01M031XEJ/ref=dp_...

leggomylibro• 9 years ago

Yeah. As soon as a digital good becomes artificially limited solely by physical 'keys,' it's kind of game over as far as my ethics are concerned. This stuff is absolutely fair game, especially after a year or two when the original stock is run down and the retailer no longer financially benefits.

And these kinds of problems are great opportunities for learning, anyways; bonus points if you look at how other people do it and solder up your own amiibo spoofer with your new understanding.

simcop2387• 9 years ago

Yeah. As soon as a digital good becomes artificially limited solely by physical 'keys,' it's kind of game over as far as my ethics are concerned. This stuff is absolutely fair game, especially after a year or two when the original stock is run down and the retailer no longer financially benefits.

I'm of the same opinion, especially in cases like this where the benefits are all in a single player game. Doing this cannot impact someone else from enjoying their copy of the game in anyway.

ballenf2• 9 years ago

Agree that this is a very difficult question that will take some years to really even understand the question.

Here are a few claims that I would make:

* The answer shouldn't turn on general availability or rarity of the required artifact. If I choose to create a painting and not make copies, that shouldn't grant a license to others to mass produce. There are a lot of ways to frame this aspect, but if you believe rarity changes the dynamic, then you are defacto granting the large entity with sufficient capital greater rights than the small creator who may not be able to mass produce a unique item in high demand. Granted these scenarios don't apply to Nintendo, but they are accurate, imo.

* Whether the software is already on-disc (or in the main download package). This is a harder question. It's not hard to understand that even a small extra download increases the seller's server costs. If it is a separate download, a strong (arguably) argument could made for computer hacking charges for downloading software for which one doesn't have a valid license. It's a much harder argument to make that one shouldn't be allowed to access software already in possession. It's also pretty analogous to any other software if the add-on download is freely available but only functions with the code. That just looks like plain software piracy. So I'd argue it does matter, and like opening the hood of your car you should be able to tinker with any code legitimately in your possession.

* The hacking difficulty. That is, where on the spectrum of plaintext "cheat code" to cryptographically secure+ does the mechanism lie? One thread made the claim that these devices are just fancy cheat codes that should be passed around without consequence. Even more extreme on the spectrum would be an honor system where the software asks you whether you "cross-my-heart" have the corresponding Amiibo in your possession (check a box for ownership). Is it ok to lie to such a system since they made it so easy to do so?

(+ for the sake of argument, I'm defining "secure" as really hard to break and needing special tools and know-how and not possible on a large scale, not automatable, etc.)

* The seller's purpose behind the collectibles / relative value of the code vs. collectible itself. Should it matter whether the code is almost an afterthought and the seller is really just creating cool tchotchke's? The reverse could also be true -- they could sell small identical tokens solely as the means to monetize the features. Clearly, I don't think the answer can turn on such an arbitrary and difficult define metric. Just because it was cheaply made or an exquisite piece of artwork in and of itself is just irrelevant, that is the relative value of the code vs. object itself.

* Impact on others. If the NFC codes were each unique and a central server tracked check ins (not the case here, evidently), forging your own codes would adversely affect a 3rd party trying to 'legitimately' use the same token. This is an objectively bad outcome, although an argument could me made that this is Nintendo's problem for selling an item whose value they couldn't guarantee, not the problem of the guy who generated someone else's code. But, if you were to buy an Amiibo, clone it, and then resell then clearly you'd be defrauding the buyer. Lots of intricacies here. This is one of the hardest aspects in theory in my opinion.

By the way, this last impact on others argument is a variation of the situation Apple recently had to address with regard to iPhone unlockers. They would desolder the hard drive from a locked (either stolen or from a device that was inadvertently not unlocked before being sold, thrown out or broken and then repaired by a 3rd party) iDevice, change the serial number by a digit or two until they found one that wasn't locked. Re-solder the drive and re-sell. Problem was that new serial was often in-use by someone else. Either of those users could effectively prevent (re-)activation of each other's device, although this wouldn't be immediately obvious to either. There were a lot of complaints from legitimate buyers of brand new devices that their device was locked with an email address they didn't recognize. Apple's response was to turn off the system where one could verify whether a serial number was unlocked, making it harder to find legitimate serial numbers. (Please let me know if I got any of these details wrong, but I followed the issue pretty closely and believe them accurate.)

gpawl• 9 years ago

This is equivalent to a software program where the basic and Pro versions are the same code, but some Pro features are locked by a software gate.

Ammiibo hacking is buying the basic version of a software program, and then bypassing the security code that protects the pro features.

It's the same as piracy, which you may considered a vice or a virtue.

pythonaut_162• 9 years ago

Except in this case there exist(ed) far less keys than demand, with the original company (Nintendo) selling them for a flat price regardless of supply vs demand, i.e. if Nintendo sells 1000 Amiibos at $25 each, they'll have $25000, even if those same Amiibos end up being worth $5000 each on the secondary market.

eridius5• 9 years ago

So what? That's not a rebuttal the parent comment. In fact, this argument seems strikingly similar to the normal piracy defense of the content being too expensive to purchase.

heywot• 9 years ago

Agreed.

I understand gamer's frustration with paywalls and pay-to-win, but let's be real here. These are collectible figurines and fun cosmetics inside a game. No one is forcing anyone to buy these and Nintendo has every right to do limited runs on some Amiibos. That's half the fun if you're into collecting these things.

If it's understood that I will never have a skin/level/weapon because I didn't purchase something additional besides the game, I just weigh whether I want to make that purchase. Just because a feature can be unlocked via a code doesn't necessarily mean I have a right to it outside of purchasing that code.

This is hardly Destiny where you paid the same price for the game, but some of the userbase got access to more content based on their console and that content never got released on other consoles (not that I'm bitter or anything). Here, you pay if you want it.

problems• 9 years ago

Nintendo has every right to do limited runs on some Amiibos.

They have every right to do limited runs, I have every right to do everything in my power to bypass that. I own the console, it's processor and memory after all. This is the nature of writing software that runs on a computer that someone else owns - ultimately, they have every right and power to decide how it runs.

EpicEng• 9 years ago

but some Pro features are locked by a software gate

And to top it off; you can't buy a key for the pro version!

jotux2• 9 years ago

Ammiibo hacking is buying the basic version of a software program, and then bypassing the security code that protects the pro features.

It seems very similar to cracks that spoofs USB dongles to unlock pro versions of software. I guess you could argue the unlocked accessories are purely cosmetic but I don't think you can really get around the fact that the accessories are pirated.

govg• 9 years ago

Is it the same as piracy though? Here, you legally bought the game and presumably can make a claim that everything written in the code belongs to you, and hence should be accessible. In piracy, you are unlawfully obtaining a copy of something that you have no claim over. This would be like if someone wrote another story into a book you purchased, but using invisible ink, and then sold blacklights for 50$. Are you allowed to use your own blacklight to read the stories (since they're on a book you purchased), or are you supposed to shell out?

jiiam• 9 years ago

With all due respect, it isn't equivalent to a program coming in basic/pro versions. And if it is, then it is not piracy, or at least is not the same as downloading a pirated copy of a software and running it (even without messing with the code, e.g. getting a GOG game).

My argument relies that beside the difference in functionality, the real separation between a basic and a pro version of a software is a license.

If we where to draw a parallel between basic/pro software and BOTW, then we have Nintendo producing a device that more or less gives anyone who touches it unboxed a license to use the pro version of the software, and is trasferable/resellable.

Now, this "license" might not grant right to copy and redistribute, but since it is not exclusive per se it should be equivalent to let a friend use it or "clone it" and send it to a friend, therefore reducing the piracy question to "is it piracy to use someone else's amiibo (with is consent)?". I think the answer to the latter is no.

silveira• 9 years ago

I really like the Amiibo idea. It's like a DLC but I'm actually buying something real, a physical token that has value in itself regardless of being on game or not. In BOTW the Amiibos are specially good because they offer a good reward without fell that you are cheating. You save some time, but nothing that completely changes the game. Yet, as pointed in the article, some Zelda amiibos are impossible to get or way too expansive due to low offer and high demand. I don't care about having a "rare" Amiibo.

Fej• 9 years ago

I don't see anything wrong if the particular amiibo is out of production. Nintendo can't get your money.

If you can get it, it's a bit more murky... the content is on the disc, you're just telling the game to unlock it. You can do what you want with your hardware. On the other hand, other publishers do this with on-disc DLC, and few people say that acquiring those without paying is acceptable.

mcphage3• 9 years ago

Most of these you can only get second hand off of sites like eBay—at significant markup. Real originals are hard to come by.

lillesvin• 9 years ago

More than anything, the way Nintendo has structured these Breath of the Wild exclusives speaks to how woefully outdated its digital strategy is.

That may be true but that still doesn't change the fact that the author is unlocking paywalled content without actually paying for it.

There are many instances of games shipping with DLC already bundled and buying it will merely unlock the content locally with no download necessary. Would anyone argue that unlocking that content by other means than buying it was not piracy?

It's the same argument we hear about "abandonware". "Well, they're not planning on selling it digitally and obtaining a copy is difficult and/or expensive so it's alright to download it." Well, legally it's still piracy — no two ways about it (at least until it falls into the public domain, but that'll be a good while still for many of the games listed on abandonware sites).

The whole piece reeks of post-rationalization. I don't care if he pirates stuff or not but this feeble attempt to rationalize it is honestly a bit tiring to read. You can take up the debate about Amiibo availability etc. without also arguing that this is the reason why it's OK to pirate it. And the fact that he rounds it all off by putting all of the blame on Nintendo (despite his weaving back and forth earlier) just cements it for me:

If only Nintendo would let more players in on the fun.

Finally (and now I'm just splitting hairs because I've gotten all worked up about this), I think he needs to revisit his definition of cheating:

I’ve been cheating in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. I don’t mean that I’m running an illegally obtained version of the game on an emulator, or that I’m exploiting the game’s design flaws to skip over parts of the story I’d rather not deal with.

The former isn't cheating, that's just pirating it, it's a completely different thing. The latter is up for debate I guess. No speedrunner would consider it cheating (obviously, if it saves time and it's in the game code then it's alright) which leads me to a thing many people could learn from speedrunners' approach to games: Don't make any assumptions about how you're intended to play a game. Unless you have the devs right there to tell you, you really can't know or infer it.

/rant

Edit: I'd be happy to hear opposing views since there appear to be some.

cwkoss2• 9 years ago

It's the same argument we hear about "abandonware". "Well, they're not planning on selling it digitally and obtaining a copy is difficult and/or expensive so it's alright to download it." Well, legally it's still piracy — no two ways about it (at least until it falls into the public domain, but that'll be a good while still for many of the games listed on abandonware sites).

Law should be based of morality, not the other way around.

Just because something is illegal does not mean it is wrong: Laws, and IP laws especially, have a bunch of side effects that were not anticipated when the laws were created because they were written before digital technologies enabled free and pervasive transmission of information.

Since patent law was created with the purpose of encouraging innovation, I'd argue that the author who teaches himself the skill of NFC spoofing is acting pro-socially, building his own human capital in an innovative way that encourages others to use technology to find new solutions to existing problems. (Arguably, the person who made the amiibo scanner is even more righteous, and the game maker who enabled this learning opportunity even more).

mcphage3• 9 years ago

That may be true but that still doesn't change the fact that the author is unlocking paywalled content without actually paying for it.

You also do that when you borrow your friend's Amiibo. Or borrow anything else, really.

rocky1138• 9 years ago

I have no problem with this whatsoever. You bought the game. The bits are yours. The fact that you can send it NFC signals to unlock the hidden stuff is kind of neat!

I would never buy Amiibo.

joshu• 9 years ago

Googling for rfid toaster does not get much. Where do I find out more, and are they useful for non-amiibo tinkering?

cwkoss2• 9 years ago

In the 90's, if a developer made a game with a cheat code that was 'exclusive' to buying a particular strategy guide, would it be unethical to share/use that cheat code without buying your own copy?

I don't think so.

bnolsen• 9 years ago

amiibo's are a lame money grab by nintendo. I see zero problem with using an NFC hack to get around nintendo locking access to features already in the software you bought from them.

Breath of the Wild and the ethics of amiibo hacking

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