Have you ever smoked weed? Answer this question and you could be banned from US

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pot-border-banned-waiver-1.3752278

by dgudkov • 10 years ago

60 63 10 years ago

cbc.ca

x3n0ph3n32• 10 years ago

Yet another reason I believe it is not unethical to lie to bureaucracies.

paulddraper• 10 years ago

I'm sure the feeling's mutual.

x3n0ph3n32• 10 years ago

Bureaucracies do not have feelings.

tomjen3• 10 years ago

No, but in the U.S. It is a crime. Which is why you don't talk to cops.

ap3• 10 years ago

Who maked the call for the ban? Is it the border agent or did it go through a process?

vkou2• 10 years ago

AFAIK, any border agent can place a five-year ban on you for any reason, including no reason whatsoever.

The moral of the story is that you should always follow the unwritten rules of interacting with border agents (Which you always should, when interacting with any people who have absolute power over you, and no accountability.) And hope that you don't run into this guy.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ex-u-s-office...

jdavis7032• 10 years ago

And what are these "rules?" Don't do or say anything stupid?

skyrw• 10 years ago

Summary: Don't confess to a federal crime when being interrogated by border patrol and expect zero consequences. This applies to all nations.

panic2• 10 years ago

Yeah, these honest people deserve what they get! They should have known we only allow liars into our great country.

serf• 10 years ago

personally i'd probably prefer a liar than someone who lacks the common sense to ixnay on (regionally) legally taboo matters with a law-enforcement figure. Especially when the figure has a reputation like the TSA or border patrol.

Liars can be exposed; I don't know how to teach common sense.

I hope one day it's not like this , but treating authority like they are your buddies having a casual chat is unwise on many levels, and not just in the U.S.

tajen2• 10 years ago

Aaaand this is why I don't even want to try visiting US, despite being offered to talk at conferences about my product. I'm using a false name on Facebook and HN, which makes me afraid of any agent asking "Have you ever impersonated someone" or "Have you ever committed a crime against US interest". I just dread the TSA. Plus I carry nudes on my laptop, which despite the male models probably being above 24, I can't prove aren't below 18, and even though I could clear my HDDs, I might as well do business with a freeer country.

The only limitation is, given I'm French and we've just had our "9/11"-type terrorist attacks, I'm afraid we might progressively set up the same extreme police system. If we do so, I'd like to apologize in advance in the name of the people of my country...

tptacek• 10 years ago

There is no graph of speaker,conference edges that crosses an ocean in which this isn't an issue. Yes: it can be a bitch to get into the US to speak, even at serious academic conferences. I have friends who've been turned away at the border. But the same goes for US->EU, US->UK, US->JP, JP->EU, and even US->CA in one case I'm familiar with.

Major international border crossings just suck a lot.

bertiewhykovich2• 10 years ago

I think you're being paranoid. Unless your product is aligned against US interests (or you're Middle Eastern), no border guard is going to care about a French national going to a conference. You're not impersonating someone by using a pseudonym, nor are you committing a crime against US interests. The TSA is obnoxious but ineffective. No one is going to detain you over your pornography unless they want to detain you anyway, and there's no clear reason why that would be the case.

mrgordon2• 10 years ago

While I'm no fan of the TSA, this seems quite extreme. The chance they would look at your hard drives is nearly 0% and most countries have some insane policies that outsiders could harp on as a reason to not visit and to "do business with a freer country." To each their own, but avoiding a major country because their border agents hassle someone every now and then seems way too limiting to me.

Keep in mind that the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg has condemned France over their use of torture in pursuing marijuana convictions. France will also somewhat arbitrarily define cases as "drug use" vs "trafficking" since possession for use is ill-defined. Many consumers get tried under trafficking laws because they get caught purchasing, for example, and under trafficking laws they will get much more serious penalties including being banned from the country in many cases. Don't forget you can also be detained for four days without a lawyer while they investigate.

Some more info at http://www.drugtext.org/European-Drug-Laws/chapter-4-france-... if you're interested.

France has a lot of great things going for it so I try not to let bad laws, border agents, etc. spoil my time there.

Yacoby• 10 years ago

Which is fine - if you have a deeper understanding of the US laws than most non US citizens. As far as I (from the UK) had read in the news it was legal in a lot of states and so my understanding was it was legal and fine. I didn't realize it was illegal at a federal level.

bunderbunder• 10 years ago

The thing to remember is that, regardless of the views of any particular constituent of the the USA, at the federal level the country is downright hysterical about all sorts of things, including drugs.

wnoise• 10 years ago

To be fair, it's only a federal crime when actually committed in the U.S. (Unlike some of the laws that are enforced extraterritorially.)

tim333• 10 years ago

I've been to 50+ countries and find the US is uniquely awkward about that kind of stuff. I mean using drugs outside of the US isn't a federal crime as far as I know for instance.

seiferteric• 10 years ago

I don't know, but I have heard you are barred from entry to Canada if you have ever gotten a DUI, so I don't think it's unique.

dmm• 10 years ago

Keep in mind too that making false statements, even a simple denial, to a federal agent is a crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements

jMyles• 10 years ago

It seems clear that there was no confession of a "federal crime." It is not a crime, federal or otherwise, of any jurisdiction in the United States, to have once smoked cannabis in Canada.

rurban• 10 years ago

Unless you are a politician. Then of course they won't bother you.

sremani2• 10 years ago

The headline is click-baity, he can still come to USA but has to apply in advance to a costly permit. Canada throws similar hissy-fit when dealing with Americans or Green card holders with DUI record.

__s• 10 years ago

DUI record isn't the same to me admitting that at some point after the age of 18 I was riding a bike with a non zero blood alcohol level

sremani2• 10 years ago

They are not the same but the situations are similar. Both are actually insane at different levels.

fu9ar• 10 years ago

"I will neither confirm nor deny any prior illegal activity."

jdavis7032• 10 years ago

And then they can just send you on the first flight back home.

Const-me2• 10 years ago

How about “No, I don’t remember doing anything like that, ever” ?

shabble2• 10 years ago

Anyone who claims to have never committed a crime is almost certain to be either lying or wrong.

walrus01• 10 years ago

When dealing with CBP/ICE don't even acknowledge that you are aware of the existence of something called weed. Seriously, they have no sense of humor.

13of40• 10 years ago

You should just say, "How should I know? Am I a botanist? I've smoked a lot of stuff."

Jugurtha3• 10 years ago

I remember a friend asking me if I could check the visa application process to the U.S. because he didn't really understand. The form was DS 160, if I recall.

Here is a sample:

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/jamaica/231771/PDFs/DS-160...

Some questions from page 38:

"Are you coming to the United States to engage in prostitution or unlawful commercialized vice or have you been engaged in prostitution or procuring prostitutes within the last 10 years?"

"Do you seek to engage in espionage, sabotage, export control violations, or any other illegal activity while in the United States?"

"Do you seek to engage in terrorist activities while in the United States or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities?"

I mean, I'm sure there's a rationale behind these questions.. maybe in a "plausible deniability" way.. but they're funny.

The problem is that sometimes, one cannot know if they violated a law. There was a video of a lawyer asking people not to talk to the cops where he addressed this point.

koenigdavidmj• 10 years ago

It's so if they have a good reason to investigate you enough, and any of these is false, they can charge you with perjury even if they can't get anything else to stick.

Jugurtha3• 10 years ago

That's why I added the remark on the possibility of being unaware you even committed the deed.

Here's the video of the lawyer about this issue:

https://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc?t=5m46s

The video is worth watching from beginning to end. The second part includes the cop's perspective.

pekk• 10 years ago

Why doesn't anyone ever think of the pimps, spies and terrorists who want to comfortably practice their trades in the US without being warned that the US is not keen on such activity?

ArkyBeagle• 10 years ago

There's a Zappa piece from "Yellow Shark" about this - "Welcome to the United States."

userbinator• 10 years ago

The first one is particularly puzzling, given that prostitution is not completely illegal throughout the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_United_Sta...

Jugurtha3• 10 years ago

They might turn them into the best thing since sliced bread... multiple choice questions.

I wonder what would be the perfect visa application form and if there can be a universal visa form? If the powers that be could agree on a set of information every country needs and you could autofill it with your browser, or have a profile on the website of an international entity that mediates that.

shabble2• 10 years ago

The best part of those questions is the screenshot on page 39, with the "EXPLAIN" textfield.

I'm struggling to think of any explanation one might offer that would do any good whatsoever (although I realise that isn't their primary intent)

Seems like they don't have the Moral Turpitude[1] question on there though.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

zaatar• 10 years ago

Lying on DS-160 was the reason the Feds managed to initially arrest 9/11 attacker Zacarias Moussaoui [1]. It is significantly easier for cops to prove you lied to the US Government and detain/deport/ban you from entry if you're an alien than to try to prove criminal intent, etc. and that's why DS-160 has all those seemingly weird questions.

[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui#Capture>

undersuit2• 10 years ago

Lying on DS-160 was the reason the Feds managed to initially arrest 9/11 attacker Zacarias Moussaoui.

"Because it was clear at that point that Moussaoui was in the country illegally, the INS agents arrested him."[1]

[1] <https://oig.justice.gov/special/s0606/chapter4.htm>

Yes lying on the DS-160 is probably a reason to arrest Zacarias, but that is not what happened.

gozur882• 10 years ago

It's not that he can't enter the US. It's just that he has to file an extra form and pay a fee.

The legal situation around marijuana in the US sucks. It may be legal at the state level where you live, but it's still very much illegal at the federal level and in theory you can spend a year in federal prison on the first offense for any amount.

Udik• 10 years ago

On a side, and just out of curiosity: has there been any thought in the US so far about prosecuting the doctors that liberally hand out certificates for the use of medical cannabis? Because it is clear that anybody can get one, so the doctors must be making a false declaration.

BrandoElFollito• 10 years ago

Welcome to the court-based country which is the US. You are expected to be serious when answering on the visa waiver whether you will kill people when in the US, and some more ridiculous questions like this one. Why? The only reason I can imagine is that when you are arrested after blowing up a bomb you cannot say that you did not expect this to be illegal. I am missing a question on my plans to run naked on the street or publicly pee.

Have you ever smoked weed? Answer this question and you could be banned from US

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