Rejection Emails Starting to Come Out

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1191467

by DanielBMarkham • 16 years ago

39 108 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I know some of you didn't want HN to make a big deal of it but I thought it at least deserved a post.

Please place your pithy comments here. (And yes, my app was rejected. Or rather, since HN funds teams and not ideas, I personally was rejected for a second time compared to the other teams that submitted)

DanielBMarkham13• 16 years ago

Hope that didn't sound too sore. Life goes on and in the scheme of things YC is just a little thing.

Having said that, I am reminded of a quote from William Jennings Bryan, who told the story of a man getting kicked out a bar for the third time. The man picks himself up off the street, brushes himself off, and says "I'm beginning to think those fellows don't want me in there" (wink)

jacquesm2• 16 years ago

That's too bad.

Don't let it get you down though.

DanielBMarkham13• 16 years ago

Ain't nothing but a thing, my friend. It certainly isn't slowing me down or changing my direction, although I reserve the right to grumble a little bit. After all, I may be determined, but I'm not a robot.

benologist3• 16 years ago

I got rejected but at this point it doesn't worry me too much, I'm on my way to the top regardless. :)

tyrelb• 16 years ago

I wouldn't refer to it a rejection letter, rather understand that they just aren't investing in your company/team at this time.

Maybe do a "Ask HN: How can I improve my team, business model, etc." and we can all crowd-source improve your idea so that another angel group would be interested in investing.

DanielBMarkham13• 16 years ago

This is an excellent idea, and it's exactly what I'm going to do in a few days.

But rejection is rejection. I wouldn't try to sugar it up too much. Reality is a good teacher.

I used to be a freelance writer. You pitch people, they reject you. When asking girls out, you ask them, they reject you. If you're a salesman, you make friends and offer people help, they reject you.

Nothing wrong with being rejected. In fact, it should be a point of pride. Life is a numbers game. You have X rejections to get through to get where you are going. You got rejected. Now you have X-1. The faster you can crank the decrement loop the faster you'll reach your destination (assuming you are learning each time through the loop, of course!)

rjett• 16 years ago

Out of curiosity, what was your idea?

sho_tbt• 16 years ago

I got rejected, so sad but not depressed. It won't stop us moving forward simply because we believe our product concept and there are many things we could do to get traction.

jacquesm2• 16 years ago

That's the right attitude.

I'm going to do an ask HN on the biggest success that YC missed out on by rejecting them, it's interesting to see who made it in spite of being rejected.

Edit: Ok, it's up: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1191566

dschobel• 16 years ago

The best description of how to react to a decline I ever read was from Yegge talking about Google interviews (and the large amount of false negatives built into their process).

His conclusion was that while it's fine to feel bad, you shouldn't ever feel meta-bad about it.

faramarz3• 16 years ago

Well.. to be honest, I don't understand why you would apply as an individual (for a second time)!

Getting a team together is no easy task, it requires discipline amongst other things. YC has been pretty vocal about favoring teams than individuals. Put a solid team together and people will notice, not just YC.

Sorry if my comment came out as harsh. there's no sugar coating it.

DanielBMarkham13• 16 years ago

Not harsh at all -- I upvoted you -- but your comment was easily made and not very insightful.

I already know I don't have a team. I already know the YC deadline. I already know that time stands still for nobody.

Is it better not to apply at all? Did YC say they wouldn't fund any single-founder teams at all?

Do you make do with what you have and move forward, or keep trying to find a founder instead of trying to find a business model? At some point you have to make a decision and run with it, and I'm happy with applying solo.

zaidf• 16 years ago

keep trying to find a founder instead of trying to find a business model

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. YET, if you want to go through the YC route, I think finding a cofounder would be more important than finding a business model.

faramarz3• 16 years ago

Fair enough.

Personally I would want to have the highest probability of being accepted when/if I ever apply to YC. Frankly speaking, I don't have the time to wait around for another term if I got rejected. I would dramatically shift my product/process or pitch.

YC is not a late stage venture fund who brings cash to the table. These guys are making a big bet by validating your idea/business. A rejection from YC should make you rethink your business/people/idea.

tptacek2• 16 years ago

If you'd be willing to accept the YC terms, and it's going to take you less time to fill out the YC application than it would to write 2-3 of your typical HN comments, what's one good reason not to apply? Of course you apply.

freshfunk9• 16 years ago

Part of being a successful entrepreneur is being tenacious. If you fold at the first sign of opposition, I doubt you'll get far.

I don't know this person's particular case but it's possible that he made significant progress on his idea between submissions.

faramarz3• 16 years ago

You're absolutely right about that trait. I don't disagree.

What I'm really saying is that just because applying is so quick and easy, it should not be taken lightly. In fact I think the application process should be made a lot more difficult to attract a higher concentration.

Am I the only one feeling like this? I hold Pg and his team to a high regard. A No from him is different than any other No. So of course I would want the highest probability of acceptance when I send my pitch.

freshfunk9• 16 years ago

I was denied ("rejected" sounds so harsh :)). But I'm still moving forward with my idea.

I'd love to meet up with other YC rejects who are looking for a support group-- I mean people to share ideas with. :)

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1191553

I'm located in SF. I'm sure there are lots of bright people also looking to partner with others to form a great team.

xenoterracide2• 16 years ago

I still wish they'd give reasons why. even if it was a checkbox thing. 'primary reason of rejection: no-cofounder' or 'bad idea', 'need more demo', 'not our area of interest', 'try again with this team and idea in 6 months' etc.

kareemm4• 16 years ago

why does it matter? they're not the experts on your business - you are. unless they're buying your product, keep calm and carry on - the best validation comes from customers.

speby3• 16 years ago

Well, AMEN.

_pius3• 16 years ago

why does it matter?

Isn't it obvious? Presumably if you cared enough to apply, you care enough to hear why you didn't get in.

abossy• 16 years ago

If you're applying to YC, chances are you are a first-time entrepreneur or a "little guy." It's simply hard to get the attention of experienced folks like those that run YC. Every bit of feedback counts, so it's definitely valuable to get feedback, especially considering the time put into one's app.

xenoterracide2• 16 years ago

(I didn't apply this round) but things like that might give you some insight. Mostly on whether it's worth applying again. If they say there #1 reason is 'no cofounder' you'll get one and apply again later. if there #1 reason is 'not our kinda product' then you won't apply again. There reason could even be "I don't get it" and you realize your pitch may be the reason to blame.

No feedback is not really helpful to anyone. All anyone knows is they were rejected for potentially arbitrary reasons.

tomhoward2• 16 years ago

It will be a combination of these and other points. As someone who got into YC, I think the things we had in our favour were:

- Strong team (10 years friendship, history of working on interesting projects together)

- Proven determination (6+ tough years working on startups, willingness to travel from Australia just for the interview)

- Good primary idea + several other solid ideas (our primary idea wasn't a new concept at all, but a new, niche angle on a very established concept)

If you didn't get picked, it's because you didn't convey these qualities well enough. All you can do to get yourself there eventually (either into YC or to startup success some other way) is to keep persisting.

The key attributes YC looks for are smart & determined. You need to prove that you have these qualities, or if you don't, you need to develop them.

coryl7• 16 years ago

Tom, whats frustrating for me is I feel like my partner and I exhibited all those attributes. We don't think its the team, we know our team is strong. So it must be the idea: they aren't getting it.

We emailed a few YC alum to review our application last month, and they all said we were a great team. One loved the idea, one liked it, and one had no clue about the market (wasn't familiar with Facebook and quizzes). Our idea targets young people (12-25 yrs). Which leads to my thinking, that because they're unfamiliar with it (YC partners too old, would never do facebook quizzes), they brushed it off? One other issue is that they prefer built out products with users. We only had a working demo and proof of concept samples.

Either that or all the other teams were more spectacular. Which bothers me, cause I've been looking people up on twitter who say they got interviews, and their products seem mediocre.

follower3• 16 years ago

I think this kinda explains why they don't: http://ycombinator.com/whynot.html

"It's not you, it's someone else." :)

I found my "no interview for you" email in my G-Mail spam folder a few minutes ago (try a search for "in:spam ycombinator.com").

While I'm a little bit disappointed not to get an interview logistically this wouldn't have been the best time in my life so I'm not too down about it. (I think that's realism rather than justificiation. :) )

All the best to everyone whether you got an interview or not. And, like everyone else says keep going. My plans for world domination will continue just at a slower pace. :)

Oh, BTW, I'm possibly going to be in the Bay Area sometime in July/August anyway and would be keen to meet up with YC/HN people then (I'm in New Zealand currently).

P.S. In case you're wondering, I haven't heard if the team of Bright Bunnies got an interview independent of me. :D Don't forget to check out the blooper reel if you missed it and need a laugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0ouOkNeBS4

phlee• 16 years ago

Since YC is not giving feedback for our proposals, does anyone here know a reliable place to get advice from somebody like YC?

fhub6• 16 years ago

Survey for those rejected... might give some insight into how close to the cut teams got.

1. How many questions did YC ask your team?

2. How many views did you get on your video?

3. How many unique visits to your prototype from YC?

4. How many hours before the rejection email did they last visit your site?

Ours:

1. 2 questions

2. 3 or 4 video views

3. 3 prototype visits I think

4. 2.5 hours

freshfunk9• 16 years ago

I had 0 questions so consider yourself loved. :)

ww5202• 16 years ago

1. 0 2. 0 (well, no video) 3. 0 (looking for ip from ycombinator.com) 4. 0

Somehow I'm kind of relieved that I got rejected, as the real fund raising process is kind of distracting the building of the product and business. I sort of used the YC deadline as an external event to set milestone for finishing up the website, which was mostly done now.

fhub6• 16 years ago

I hear you... I burnt out in the weeks leading up to the YC deadline. Then the 2 weeks between my submission and rejection I felt like I was in limbo. I'm looking forward to getting my head down and focusing on my product.

Don't skimp on the video next time... Its the one external thing PG says he'll (definately) look at. If they like your vid, they'll probably visit your site. I put links on the vid page to my site, I'd have to check my logs to see if they clicked them from there.

rubyrescue• 16 years ago

0 questions/12 video views/unknown prototype/unknown but video was watched today

unignorant• 16 years ago

We had something like:

1) 0 ; 2) at least 3 ; 3) 3 (we think) ; 4) unclear

kareemm4• 16 years ago

1. 0 questions

2. 7 views

3. we didn't send them a prototype

4. no idea

atiw• 16 years ago

1. 1 2. I am a little bummed about this, I have 27 views on my youtube demo, and my only friend who knows about the demo says he saw it some 3-4 times max. Considering I might have clicked some 7-8 times that I checked to see it. It feels like YC def watched my demo more than once. Not sure who many. 27-4-8 = 14. That sounds a lot...What happened ? 3. didn't really open the prototype yet. 4. not sure.

Anyways, I wanted to sell this to MS / Google, or make it bootstrapped and keep the profits myself. Only thing that kind of got me a little too hopeful is seeing a question from Rtm. Well, other ways it is then.

python1234• 16 years ago

Can someone post the actual text of the rejection letter. I'm curious what it says.

fhub6• 16 years ago

More interesting than the rejection letter - http://ycombinator.com/whynot.html

python1234• 16 years ago

Can someone post the actual text of the rejection letter. I'm curious what it says.

fhub6• 16 years ago

We're sorry to say we couldn't accept your proposal for funding. Please don't take it personally. The applications we receive get better every funding cycle, and since there's a limit on the number of startups we can interview in person, we had to turn away a lot of genuinely promising groups.

Another reason you shouldn't take this personally is that we know we make lots of mistakes. It's alarming how often the last group to make it over the threshold for interviews ends up being one that we fund. That means there are surely other good groups that fall just below the threshold and that we miss even interviewing.

http://ycombinator.com/whynot.html

We're trying to get better at this, but it's practically certain that groups we rejected will go on to create successful startups. If you do, we'd appreciate it if you'd send us an email telling us about it; we want to learn from our mistakes.

Y Combinator Staff

follower3• 16 years ago

Wait, you mean this wasn't the standard one: :D

Are you crazy???

elleferrer2• 16 years ago

Don't give up guys... "Success is a lousy teacher because it teaches successful people they can do no wrong." -Bill Gross #embracefailure

kimfuh3• 16 years ago

I didn't make it either. I still think I have a great idea though, but what really intrigues me are those 60 companies that made it through to the interview round. They must have some insanely great ideas!

elleferrer2• 16 years ago

Questions: [pre-rejection] 1) Did you have a plan B? 2) If so, what was your plan B and your plans moving forward?

DanielBMarkham13• 16 years ago

Yep. I have a development road-map. The only thing that YC (or funding) would offer is a chance to move faster down that map. The backup plan had the same customer development steps in it -- it just moves along slower.

The main problem is getting distracted with funding, not finding it. I can always self-fund. People come to me to ask for help with making teams perform a lot faster. Hopefully I've built up a bit of a good reputation and that makes my phone ring. The problem is -- getting involved with other teams takes time and energy away from my own team and startup.

benologist3• 16 years ago

My plan B was just to keep at it and build my business regardless .... the networking was the main opportunity I saw in YC, but I've been in SF the last week and a half busily introducing myself and my platform to the largest names in the casual games industry. I'm leaving SF without YC, but I've got the support and business of 5 (and possibly a couple more) of the biggest companies, and several have made private offers to help fund me through this year.

I'm going back home tonight so I can get back to work finally and just stop meeting people. I find something really daunting about talking to a group of people but fortunately most have been young, technical, and immediately seen value in my platform.

speby3• 16 years ago

In the time you were first rejected to the time of the 2nd rejection, you could have done some things to save up the same seed money for yourself, established relationships with angels/VCs through networking, come up with an alternate idea (perhaps the one that was just rejected), or just started working on the idea that was originally rejected. You would have been better off than waiting around and trying to get permission to start something from YC.

kimfuh3• 16 years ago

I don't understand something. YC rejects groups because they have a limited number of slots. They say it's not that your idea is bad, but because they cannot fund everyone. Then they open up the field for late applications. For me, that means that they find my idea bad and they are still looking for good ideas to fill up their roster. Does that make sense, or am I just bitter?

fhub6• 16 years ago

I think they are just keeping the door open for the 'killer' idea & team.

kimfuh3• 16 years ago

It's just so demoralizing for someone to tell you that you aren't that 'killer idea and team' combo.

boobs1• 16 years ago

hey guys: I have news for you: Zuckerberg would not have done ycombinator. I think ycombinator is great and all. But to make it in this cruel world as a startup founder, you need to be arrogant enough to be able to say $25,000 is not worth 5% of my company. To be honest, if you are not disciplined enough to moonlight and work on your startup and give away zero equity and actually earn the $6,000 it takes to live on for a few months to then quit your job and build your idea full time, you probably shouldn't start a startup in the first place. no, I have not made it yet; but I'm damn sure I'm right about the above. Thanks for reading. Don't give up.

banjiewen• 16 years ago

If your argument for why YC isn't worth it is the whole cash/equity/valuation bit, then you definitely haven't talked to enough YC alumni to get a feel for the real value of the program.

OTOH, if you're saying that those who think they _need_ YC for their startups to be successful should strap on some plums, then 100% agreed. ;)

python1234• 16 years ago

I think/hope he's talking about the latter, in which case I completely agree. It's especially annoying to hear those people who get rejected say that they'll apply again in the winter. They're basically saying that they intend to make no meaningful progress on their start up in the next six months. YC is a very early stage investor. It should be a one-shot deal for any serious start-up. By the time the next cycle comes around, your start-up should be beyond the stage where doing YC makes sense. If your start-up folds, OK, apply again with something new, but these people actually planning on applying again.

boobs22• 16 years ago

ycombinator makes sense for 2 kinds of people: 1) people who did not go to stanford/mit/etc. (if you went to those schools and you can't get a meeting with Sequoia, or anyone you want, you don't know what you are doing and should not be an entrepreneur.) 2) first time entrepreneurs who are age 24 and under and thus, do not know what they are doing as entrepreneurs. And thus need guidance.

for both of those subgroups of people, it makes a lot of sense.

ironically, you can only get into ycombinator if you went to stanford or other top university. hahaha... this will get refuted big time by the one or two cases where it is not true; but I'm sure it is largely true.

nitrogen• 16 years ago

Some of my thoughts on rejection, hopefully helpful:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1192204

Of course, I'll happily continue bootstrapping, iterating designs with potential customers, and building a market. Y Combinator is just an awesome way to accelerate parts of the process, not a sole gatekeeper of the startup world.

dushan01• 16 years ago

Now I only regret that I described some of my ideas in detail. There is no any guaranty it is not gonna be shared with existing yc companies...:(

follower3• 16 years ago

You might want to read the section "Will you sign an NDA? How do I know you won't steal my idea?" on http://ycombinator.com/faq.html which also refers to the section on the application form which says "Though we don't make any formal promise about secrecy, we will try to avoid disclosing your plans to potential competitors."

Rejection Emails Starting to Come Out

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