Facial recognition will soon end anonymity

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/facial-recognition-will-soon-end-your-anonymity-2016-06-02

by eplanit • 10 years ago

52 69 10 years ago

marketwatch.com

bredren• 10 years ago

One way to look at this is that people won't feel embarrassed by things they do in public.

See Bob Gale's view on privacy here:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/how-back-to...

Facial obfuscation can and will be a thing. Choosing coverings that provide some anonymity but don't scare people will be interesting.

Movement gait can also be analyzed but harder to collect and analyze so it will come later.

Edit: You might enjoy The Private Eye, a graphic novel that has some facial recognition / obfuscation leanings: http://panelsyndicate.com/comics/tpeye

jsemrau2• 10 years ago

feel embarrassed by things they do in public.

That is a slippery slope that usually starts with "if you have nothing to hide".

amag4• 10 years ago

Exactly, even if you have nothing to hide you can be embarrassed by things out of your control (maybe you caught a bug and throw up on a stranger).

Also there are things you may not be embarrassed about but unsure how it may affect your future career/love/etc (I'm thinking public demonstrations etc).

Analemma_2• 10 years ago

One way to look at this is that people won't feel embarrassed by things they do in public.

I've heard this theory before, that once there are no more secrets, we won't be embarrassed by our social missteps anymore, or able to use them to attack others because the attacking party will be equally guilty. I think it's a load of BS. Humans are nasty, shitty little hypocrites: if they have dirt on someone else they'll shout it from the rooftops without caring one whit if they're just as bad. Similarly, the people consuming the gossip won't care one bit if they have equally embarrassing stuff in public, before using that data to pass unalterable moral judgment.

Have you ever seen an internet comment section filled with Screaming Moral Outrage at some faux pas, even though most of those commenters are probably worse people? That's what the future is going to be like. Picture a shame mob stamping on a human face, forever.

jfoutz• 10 years ago

Maybe. I dunno. I do know the "next" big problem is access asymmetry. You can see where i've been all day, but i don't have the same level of access to these specialized systems, so i'm kinda screwed.

My favorite local example is red light cameras racking up 100k in fines against police cars without their lights on. They were all forgiven.

On the flip side, that stuff will only work for a little while. President Bush came just shy of admitting use of cocaine. Obama flat out admitted it, and it was no big deal. Clinton more or less ended the pot stigma. Drug use (in the past) has been more or less eliminated as a shaming tactic. I'm not saying some people won't scream moral outrage, it's just that no one else will really care.

So maybe i get caught picking my nose. Me and 300 million other people. shrug.

alexhoduski• 10 years ago

"Facial obfuscation can and will be a thing"

Princess Bride called it.

TrevorJ• 10 years ago

Eh, everyone knows with certainty that everyone else defecates. Almost everyone would be embarrassed to do it in public.

personjerry• 10 years ago

I have this funny vision in my head where people start practicing strange contortions of their faces in photos designed to counter current facial recognition algorithms. Then the software writers adjust their algorithms to compensate. Then new silly faces are invented. Rinse and repeat. Although I suppose in the end the algorithms win because they can easily just try each past variation and choose the best one.

tdy7215• 10 years ago

This assumes you are only photographed willingly or knowingly. I think that case is an exception, and not a rule. I'm not afraid of Facebook, Mastercard probably has a more intimate database on more people. Think CCTV.

PebblesHD2• 10 years ago

On a less serious note, maybe mask culture will re-emerge, in response to constant identification. Personally I would love to break out my decorative gas mask, I'd love to see a computer ID me wearing that!

toomuchtodo• 10 years ago

Facial temporary tattoo that throws off machine learning?

mtgx• 10 years ago

Then the tattoos would have to be generated in a truly random way as well. Otherwise, an AI like AlphaGo would quickly "learn" which are the tattoos on people's faces, especially if there's a limited selection of designs of say a few hundred or thousand.

ortusdux• 10 years ago

The man is already a few steps ahead of you!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_laws

tdy7215• 10 years ago

https://www.wired.com/2016/05/drive-car-can-id-within-minute... What kind of mask do you use on the break pedal?

gozur883• 10 years ago

My own car is not going to be snooping on me even if it means getting under the hood with a pair of wire clippers and bootleg ROMs.

rosser• 10 years ago

In Ken MacLeod's novel "The Execution Game", which featured some amateur espionage and OPSEC tactics as plot elements, there was a specific marque of makeup that was known to throw off the facial recognition algorithms in play. I have no idea if such a thing actually exists or not, but if so, it's probably a lot less "Look at me hiding from The Man" than walking around as Guy Fawkes all day.

ap22213• 10 years ago

Except that in some places (like some US states), wearing a mask in public is a felony.

Aelinsaar4• 10 years ago

Gait recognition, thermal imaging...

TeMPOraL7• 10 years ago

Yeah, it's funny how people think they can work around facial recognition and yay, they've beaten the system. Facial recognition is not "special". Anything that makes you distinct from other people can be used to recognize you, pretty much by definition. Which feature is being used in practice is mostly a matter of cost-effectiveness.

ridiculous_fish• 10 years ago

Relevant article on what it's like to wear anti-surveillance camouflage makeup, aka "the dazzle":

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/makeup...

11thEarlOfMar• 10 years ago

Reminds me of the somewhat heated debates in the halls of Sun Microsystems back in the 90s when Caller ID was just being introduced. It was seen largely as an erosion of privacy since you'd not want the person you are calling to be able to screen your call so easily. Of course, over time, it became standard to the point that I am no longer surprised when services I am calling have my records up without asking who I am.

Those arguments seem quaint today, scarcely 20 years later. So it makes me think that 20 years from now, facial recognition in public places will be similarly integrated and we'll just stop noticing.

Bromskloss• 10 years ago

So it makes me think that 20 years from now, facial recognition in public places will be similarly integrated and we'll just stop noticing.

That still leaves open the question of whether it's good or not.

algorias• 10 years ago

The difference with caller ID is, of course, that you need to deliberately initiate an action (calling someone you don't trust) for it to "erode" your privacy. Facial recognition can be done to you on the street by anybody, without you being able to opt out or even know it's happening. It's not even remotely the same thing.

anfedorov• 10 years ago

I think sunglasses will become the standard opt-out, and perhaps the legal one at some point.

DenisM• 10 years ago

I am nearsighted, but for a long time I did not wear glasses. I could recognize a lot of my friends by gait and posture from a huge(for me) distance, long before I could see their faces. My cat knows who's coming before the door opens - she can tell the steps. I don't think privacy will last, given how data collection improve.

I suggest a compromise: all data can be collected, but it has to be locked up until a court order is issued to unlock it. A real court, not one of those courts. A fourth branch of the government will be in charge of safekeeping, to avoid the pressure from executive. Kind of like BBC in the UK.

davydka• 10 years ago

But once data collection tools become easily abstracted and implemented anyone can create their own surveillance network to do as they please.

tdy7215• 10 years ago

So the algorithms for this kind of recognition already exist in your head (and your cat's). How do you propose we lock that kind of information down? Do you really believe we can lock that kind of information down? How would a Fourth branch of government fall into the checks and balances of the current system?

Also, your system assumes some kind of World Government? I would really love to be wrong here...

jsemrau2• 10 years ago

I am actually quite worried about this development (http://buff.ly/1ZhvE9c).

With facial recognition, the ultimate people database, and location-patterns we are well on the way end-to-end surveillance.

*not too serious : Maybe conservative Muslims are way ahead of their time?

CapitalistCartr• 10 years ago

Maybe you should be serious. But, like cryptography, it only works if many people (majority?) use it.

tdy7215• 10 years ago

An addition, not a correction: But, like cryptography, it only works for as long as isn't broken and does not break.

tdy7215• 10 years ago

IMHO: Facial recognition, along with other software and analysis techniques, have already ended anonymity. We're just waiting for the world to catch up. Anonymity may still exist in this world, but those are outliers, no longer the rule.

LeoPanthera2• 10 years ago

CV Dazzle becomes more and more relevant. https://cvdazzle.com

Edit: Changed link to one that doesn't hate HN.

Hilyin• 10 years ago

Classy site, redirects to a pic of balls when referer is HN.

LeoPanthera2• 10 years ago

Ugh. Fixed it.

beachstartup• 10 years ago

cut and paste, or right click and open incognito.

pdkl95• 10 years ago

Another practical example of why the referer header needs to be removed entirely.

AceJohnny22• 10 years ago

JWZ redirects HN referer. You'll want to copy-paste that link manually :)

Edit: link was https://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/03/cv-dazzle/

TimJRobinson• 10 years ago

In the article it mentions Microsoft patented advertising based on facial recognition here: https://www.google.com/patents/US20080004951?dq=facial+recog...

I don't understand how they could patent this when it's basically what's in Minority report which was released in 2002.

Analemma_2• 10 years ago

Patent invalidation is executed lazily. If somebody ever challenges Microsoft on this patent, then the prior art from Minority Report could be brought up, but until then it stays on the books.

chroma• 10 years ago

FYI, the targeted advertising in Minority Report used retinal scanning, not face recognition. Automated face recognition would have totally changed the movie, as fooling such tech requires more than swapping eyeballs.

the84722• 10 years ago

Those apps rely on data harvested from social networks. Or outright exported through their APIs.

A solution is to not make that kind of data publicly available. Either by not using a social network account at all or by using one that respects your privacy settings, e.g. by not tagging your face on other people's image uploads.

elliotec2• 10 years ago

If all my social media pics are me with a shaved head, face, and glasses, will I be safe if I grow long hair and facial hair and start wearing contacts?

the84722• 10 years ago

I guess that the uncovered parts of your face would still be unique enough for the algorithms to work. The mouth-nose-browridge structure for example.

gozur883• 10 years ago

Probably not. From what I understand facial recognition software relies heavily on things you can't change, like the distance between your pupils and the ratio of your facial features to each other. You can certainly obscure your face, but if you were forced to remove sunglasses and such, say, at a security checkpoint you'd probably get ID'd.

Aelinsaar4• 10 years ago

I can't be the only person here who's never uploaded a photo of themselves to social media, or frankly anywhere else. People always seem to be so shocked when an antisocial teenager doxxes them, but there is a reason that happened. For years I just shrugged when people called me paranoid about sharing pictures, and now, not so much.

The problem is, I can only speak for photos I took, and that I uploaded. That's what I can reasonably control, and beyond that, I'm not going to smack a camera out of a friend's hand on a vacation. If that happens, it happens.

The other issue is that with the UK leading the way in CCTV usage, it's possible (although not necessarily inevitable) that our own social media usage will not be the major factor in the near future. At that point, I suppose it's either adapt as a society, or attack the infrastructure.

sandworm1012• 10 years ago

> Soon anybody with a high-resolution camera and the right software will be able to determine your identity.

No. Software cannot do that. You need software PLUS access to some data set.

> Tracking people in the real world might start to look more like it does online, causing changes to our behavior.

Ok. Stopped reading there. There is no comparison to online. I've got my VPN on atm and my user-agent spoofer just notified me that it was changing to some other random fib. I'll believe such statements when someone explains to me how Tor can be implemented in meatspace. Online and realworld are not the same.

(When we all have google glass nailed to our faces, will adblockers be a thing? I hate billboards.)

TeMPOraL7• 10 years ago

No. Software cannot do that. You need software PLUS access to some data set.

Exactly. Sadly, as an individual, I don't have access to such dataset.

(When we all have google glass nailed to our faces, will adblockers be a thing? I hate billboards.)

Real-life adblock would IMO be the killer feature for AR :). Though much harder to implement than its web counterpart.

fold• 10 years ago

Brand Killer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDPn7MGxPjs

Aelinsaar4• 10 years ago

That data set is going to have to be networked to tons of devices all over the place, it's going to be hacked, intercepted, and generally compromised, just like everything else.

Kristine1975• 10 years ago

Time to buy a Niqāb.

Or better: Lobby for laws that make it illegal to store the data necessary for facial recognition unless absolutely required e.g. for security.

hackney• 10 years ago

Great. A lesson in individuality and it's importance to self, and the whole.

Facial recognition will soon end anonymity

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