Project Ara Lives: Google's Modular Phone

http://www.wired.com/2016/05/project-ara-lives-googles-modular-phone-is-ready/

by anigbrowl • 10 years ago

141 94 10 years ago

cryptoz• 10 years ago

Link to Project Ara Developer Edition page: https://atap.google.com/ara/

r/android seems unimpressed because many of the initially removable components are no longer removable (at least, as indicated by marketing videos) [1]. However, it seems silly to me to get upset about this because this is a Developer Edition and Google clearly had to limit the scope of the project in order to ship. Though, one wonders if there are physical limits causing the CPU, GPU, battery, and display to be non-removable. We'll see.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/4k9bwr/project_ara...

LeoPanthera3• 10 years ago

I haven't read the Reddit comments (and I don't even own an Android phone) but... aren't those the things you would MOST want to upgrade in the future?

digi_owl3• 10 years ago

Bingo. SOC, screen and battery define the longevity of the device. Being able to upgrade those piecemeal moved mobile devices closer to that of the desktop PC (frankly if we could move the CPU onto a daughterboard i would be dancing with joy).

Also, screens are what most often break on a device, because glass don't deal well with sudden applications of force. Making them modular with a defined attachment system would be godsend for many butterfingers and parents.

All in all, what they are presenting now is things that can be done USB, WIFI or bluetooth.

chillingeffect• 10 years ago

Given the economics of today's limitations, yes, that would be.

But if you knew, for example, that your camera could be used with your next two CPUs, you might make a longer term investment in a higher-quality camera.

petra• 10 years ago

I think OEM's pushed Google a bit, not wanting to kill the upgrade cycle. One sign for that is the non-removable battery - which is easy to do technically.

x1798DE2• 10 years ago

They couldn't even make the battery removable? That's pretty weak for something touted as a modular phone.

notatoad2• 10 years ago

the core of the phone contains a non-removable battery. That doesn't mean you can't attach supplementary battery modules to it.

asdz• 10 years ago

if they are making all battery removable, most probably they will have to start a support line for everyone who can't power on their device :) Cust A - "Why can't I power on my device? I charge it"

squeaky-clean2• 10 years ago

because many of the initially removable components are no longer removable

It's not that "many" of the components aren't available, it's all the components anyone cared about. It seems like you won't be able to swap out the CPU, GPU, RAM, battery or screen. So if you want a phone with a faster CPU, you need to buy an entirely new phone, which goes against all the hype for these modular phone plans.

From the venturebeat article linked below: "The idea of Ara is to ensure that your devices are future-proofed, meaning that the whole “upgrade every two years” mentality is no longer a thing. ". This certainly isn't true. Though I guess it could be slightly cheaper, since you would be just buying a frame, and could pop in your old camera module.

There also aren't any modules being shown that can clue you into what the potential is. The only thing recognizable is a camera module, and what I'm guessing is a small e-ink display., every other module is just an unlabeled colored/textured rectangle. In every article about it the only example ever used is a camera.

The module idea actually seems really cool, a standard way for anyone to create hardware for your phone. But I think the "modular phone. Upgrade one bit a time. Never obsolete." marketing angle is a blatant lie.

Edit: I agree with one of the jokes in that Reddit thread about this

    Here's what I want for my six modules:
      1. Camera
      2. Battery
      3. Battery
      4. Battery
      5. Battery
      6. Battery

Because really, what else is there?

Klathmon2• 10 years ago

From the article:

“The key here,” Camargo says, “is to develop the functionality you don’t get on your smartphone today. I’ll give you the smartphone, so you don’t have to worry about it.”

It sounds to me the reason their "dev kit" includes so much "out of the box" is to spur development of newer more interesting modules.

Like you said, we all know that camera, storage, battery modules will be there, but they are pushing to see what others can come up with (blood sugar testers, credit-card readers, touchpads, temperature sensors, etc...)

8note• 10 years ago

Id go for two cameras, and try to hack some 3D recording out of it.

and replacement inertial sensors, those always seem to break on me.

edit: actually, it would be cool to put an FPGA on there.

fu9ar• 10 years ago

off of the top of my head:

SDR, Storage, bigger/better Speakers, more USB/whatever ports, HDMI output, video Projector, JTAG (why not?), RFID

edit: oh, temperature/barometer built into the device would be pretty cool too.

malandrew• 10 years ago

Different types of cameras such as night vision or infrared heat camera. Also laser range finder modules or something capable of stereoscopic vision. Altimeters. Barometric pressure sensors. Communicator modules for other peripherals when Bluetooth isn't appropriate. Temperature sensor. Wind speed device (would have to protrude beyond the phone's edge so wind can pass through). Light sensor for automatic white balance measurements. Chording keypads to enable more interesting input for power users.

Anyways that's just a stream of conscious I came up with in 5 minutes of noodling. There is potential. Maybe not as much for day to day, but definitely options for professionals that make their living outdoors.

wubbfindel• 10 years ago

2 Cameras for recording in 3D? ;-)

asuffield3• 10 years ago

(Tedious disclaimer: my opinion only, not speaking for anybody else. I'm an SRE at Google.)

It's not that "many" of the components aren't available, it's all the components anyone cared about. It seems like you won't be able to swap out the CPU, GPU, RAM, battery or screen.

The article addresses this directly:

"After lots of research and testing, they made a big decision: rather than turn every single piece of the phone into modules, from the processor to the RAM to the hard drive, they’d consolidate all that into the standard frame. They found that people don't care about, or want to think about, the processor in their phone. And they especially don't want to worry about it being compatible with all their apps. Users just want a good phone with good specs that does all the basics well, and then they want a place to play on top of that."

They did the research. It turned out that people didn't care about those components after all.

If you think your research is better, build the product.

DiabloD3• 10 years ago

That basically kills it for me. The only reason I was interested was to be able to transform a phone into a larger tablet just by swapping the screen module out.

Oh well.

onion2k2• 10 years ago

There's no reason why you couldn't add a "tablet screen" module. It doesn't have to replace an existing feature; a module could suppliment a feature.

digi_owl3• 10 years ago

Except that they had a more modular device booting on stage a year ago.

And shipping this as a dev device will limit the scope of ideas developers will implement.

Klathmon2• 10 years ago

Actually it looks like the reason their dev kit includes so much in the "base" is exactly the opposite reason:

“The key here,” Camargo says, “is to develop the functionality you don’t get on your smartphone today. I’ll give you the smartphone, so you don’t have to worry about it.”

They are including an entire phone as the "base" in order to get developers to create new and interesting modules for it.

Everyone and anyone can make a battery, or an SD card reader, they want to see what other things people can come up with.

Zak• 10 years ago

It seems to me that treating the frame containing these components as just another module is reasonable enough. That said, the battery is the number one item I want to be easily replaceable. Not only is it a big help to be able to carry spares, but Li-ion batteries degrade over time and put a limit on the useful life of a device even if its capabilities still suit the user.

listic2• 10 years ago

many of the initially removable components are no longer removable

'many' is CPU+GPU+RAM, which was going to be a single module, but now is part of the frame, right?

listic2• 10 years ago

I like that they showed a pill box application. That's the one I could use in my smartphone.

It doesn't have to be just a passive box; it could have a companion app and door open sensor. I'm using a separate device for that: http://www.amazon.com/Reizen-Vibrating-Five-Alarm-Pill/dp/B0...

LeoPanthera3• 10 years ago

Non-wired link: http://venturebeat.com/2016/05/20/google-working-on-consumer...

Not going to disable my adblocker just to read a story. I consider it to be an anti-malware tool at this point.

mediocrejoker• 10 years ago

What adblocker do you use? I use google-chrome on linux with uBlock Origin addon and the site renders perfectly for me.

The addon says it blocked 32 elements.

LeoPanthera3• 10 years ago

If you didn't scroll down you probably won't notice.

But I'm using Ka-Block on Safari OS X

daveloyall• 10 years ago

I'm using https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts and wired is non-functional for me.

gervase• 10 years ago

I believe that uBlock Origin includes an Anti-Anti-Adblock filter by default in the filter list.

yoodenvranx• 10 years ago

Is there a crowd-sourced list with anti-adblocker websites? One could combine this with a Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey userscript for HN to add some warning icons right next to the submission link.

sp332• 10 years ago

You can configure uBlock Origin or any blocker that uses lists to use Reek's anti-adblock killer list. https://github.com/reek/anti-adblock-killer#instruction

pier25• 10 years ago

The idea is great for many reasons (value, environment, etc) but god, that phone is ugly.

sxates• 10 years ago

I actually think it looks kinda of cool.

pessimizer3• 10 years ago

Nothing wrong with a little Mondrian.

grizzles• 10 years ago

It's not very nice looking. For aesthetics, they will need to ship it with a case or skin that's thin & strong.

I don't often wish for mandatory bundling, but I hope that's what this is about: http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/14/google-now-lets-you-design-...

pessimizer3• 10 years ago

Open hardware, or closed hardware? Can I run what I want on it, and will I be able to buy modules from unlicensed third party developers?

vonklaus2• 10 years ago

physical apps store will be a cool idea, especially with a macguiver-esque iot swiss army knife of add ons for health, security, communication & interacting with physical environment.

dflock• 10 years ago

I think this project would get a lot more love if it was presented as a modular "tricorder", rather than a modular phone.

I imagine that there's a pretty interesting collection of niche markets for a capable, connected mobile device with interchangeable sensors.

yk• 10 years ago

I was thinking pretty much the same, a oscilloscope module or an android module could be pretty handy at times.

Pxtl• 10 years ago

Scientists aren't as frugal as consumers either, so you could add a zero onto the sticker.

qq663• 10 years ago

I think that if this project succeeds, it will be as a standard phone you plug into a lot of different devices. Ara could be generic compute/storage/networking, and cheap enough for you to click one into your sprinkler system, your refrigerator, your car, and perhaps commercial equipment like your alarm system, security camera system, etc... All talking to each other and sharing a common uplink.

genericone• 10 years ago

Now THIS here is the interesting idea, the ARA becomes the local compute component in a larger system, rather than having smaller components attaching to the ARA!

qq663• 10 years ago

Yes, I'm thinking in particular of my wife's digital piano, which has some horrific obsolete Yamaha software to transfer files, and my 2006 Acura, which has a completely crummy in-dash navigation system. Both would have been much better served by a plug-in compute module that had its own networking and could be upgraded independently.

hackaflocka• 10 years ago

This is the game-changer the last 3 billion need.

I really hope it works out. (I expect that if it does, then over time everything will be swappable.)

Brakenshire• 10 years ago

The phone's going to be priced at the mid to high range. Including all the important components pre-built means that it can't be sold at a low price. 'A single phone for everyone' was the original idea, but it seems they've given up on it.

qq663• 10 years ago

Very doubtful that this will lead to a lower-total-cost-of-ownership phone for anyone vs. buying the $30 Android phone and replacing it when it breaks.

More likely that this will become a standard compute/networking interface into a bunch of specialized modules (stereoscopic cameras, home automation, industrial control, etc.)

MichaelGG• 10 years ago

They’re also building “style” modules, which don’t do anything except look nice.

This is underrated, at least in the article. People love customizing. They'll spend money on that. Wood, gold, ceramic, organic-whatever, glass-with-bits-of-Holy-Land, and on and on. Even for basic parts, like the camera, people will pay just to have different colored rings around the lens.

Phone cases are one obvious example of all this, but being able to replace the materials of different parts of the phone seems like the next step.

I'm not convinced this project has much use otherwise, though. Would love to be wrong. But even their demo video shows nothing useful at all.

jsharf• 10 years ago

Small companies can now develop phone modules and release products with more advanced technology in a specific area (battery tech, camera, etc) without designing the rest of the phone. It would ideally be compatible with any unipro phone. This is important because a lot of technologies that would normally make it into phones doesn't because of how difficult designing and launching a phone is. You definitely don't need to do all that work if all you want to do is make a phone with a smaller/better camera.

Another benefit is being able to repair your phone by swapping out a broken module rather than replacing the whole thing. This should reduce waste. Also, you don't need to get new phones every two years, you can just replace modules as they get outdated.

If done well enough, this could shift phones out of excessive consumerism, where buying a new phone is often cheaper than replacing an old one (or where repairing a phone is impossible).

wlesieutre2• 10 years ago

Also, you don't need to get new phones every two years, you can just replace modules as they get outdated.

Alternately, you can replace each and every component immediately as soon as a minor upgrade is available! 0.5 more megapixels! Another 200 MHz on that Snapdragon! 5 GB RAM! The same battery pack, but this one has gold stripes and is clearly higher end!

jeromegv• 10 years ago

Since the CPU, RAM and screen can't be updated, your phone will definitely get outdated after 2 years.

Animats• 10 years ago

Apparently, Google controls the frame and the core components. The "base unit" is not, apparently, separate from the frame, so you can't build frames in different sizes. You can't build a tablet size frame, or use the form factor as a packaging standard for embedded control or lab instruments.

As a mobile device, it should be heavier, bigger, and less rugged than an integrated unit, so that may not be a win.

dilemma• 10 years ago

I think the main thing this structure brings is the unbundling of camera module from the handset, so that larger sensor/lens modules can be offered. As it is, manufacturers are afraid that protrusions will hurt sales and are therefore hesitant to go with large sensors.

edit: On second thought, this may end up just being the foundation of Android-based camera backs. Should be a bit of help for camera makers, so that they can focus on the camera module.

usrusr• 10 years ago

Should be a bit of help for camera makers, so that they can focus on the camera module.

Why would camera makers want to give up on the pattern of tying a new firmware feature to a minor case facelift to celebrate it as a new camera generation? Cameras are a market where a few compulsive update-buyers seem to greatly outweigh the masses of thrice-in-a-lifetime buyers in terms of number of devices sold.

kenz0r• 10 years ago

As expected, the stuff that you really want to be able to replace (Screen, SoC, and RAM) are the ones you can't.

zakalwe20002• 10 years ago

Ugh, this has always been a terrible idea - apparently a vanity project by people who know nothing about how manufacturing works.

Every piece they make modular adds cost - cost of connectors, weight of the frame to support them, cost of support when the connectors fail.

You can go on about "waste" all you want, but the lowest cost, lowest material devices are rated for single-insertion connections along with components both stacked and heavily integrated.

The reason they could not do displays, RAM, etc is that these components are tightly integrated to the SOC selected, and change regularly. This was true when they announced, even more true now.

Truly Google is the new Microsoft if they devote such time to obvious executive vanity projects, untouched by the taint of reality.

cromwellian2• 10 years ago

Right, because we all know the most important feature of smart phones is their cost savings, which is why Apple phones sell close to their marginal cost and don't have 30% margins.

And this kind of device, while it may not be interesting for many consumers, will be very interested for industrial, enterprise, or medical users.

zakalwe20002• 10 years ago

There's a graveyard of phones that thought there was a market for a wider variety of form factors. This is a variation on that theme.

To put it another way, if you were running a medical devices company with limited resources, would you bet on this or bluetooth?

morcheeba• 10 years ago

zakalwe2000 mentioned a lot of kinds of costs; you only mention the monetary one. In fact, your example of the iphone supports his/her point - a non-removable battery improves reliability and makes phones slimmer & lighter while also more mechanically durable.

woodman• 10 years ago

All those costs in modularity apply to PCs, which are still around despite the hard drive to turn everything into a SOC. If I were able to get the same amount of use out of a modular phone as I have my daily driver PC (going on nearly 10 years) then I'd happily pay more for the robust design. I get that the popular justification for SOC is power savings, but the cost is so much higher than just incredibly rapid obsolescence. Consider all the software problems, the binary blobs, the lack of security updates, the vendor lock in... we really need to step off this crazy train.

pessimizer3• 10 years ago

I can't even realistically say how old my two computers are, because their parts are all different ages; I can tell you how old their cases are...

edit: It's not even accurate to describe them as separate computers, because parts have travelled between them more than once.

lagudragu• 10 years ago

You're forgetting another large cost-sink: R&D and prototyping.

Taken from their developer page (https://atap.google.com/ara/):

More Space. New Ideas. The Ara frame contains the CPU, GPU, antennas, sensors, battery and display, freeing up more room for hardware in each module. We are looking to module makers to create technology never before seen on smartphones.

With 3D printers, cheaper cheapsets, ..., tinkerers can go on and try to create their own module which they can integrate into their phone. If the module is popular amongst users, integrate it either as a standard module in the ARA store (a 3rd party could for example propose to manufacture that module, shifting those costs to them, Google would just deliver the core ARA product).

linuxkerneldev• 10 years ago

I'd settle for a phone that just lets me have source to everything that can be reflashed and allows me to practically modify and reflash as desired. I feel USB host would be good enough so that I can add peripherals as needed, I don't need fancy magnetic connectors.

snsr• 10 years ago

I love it. The fact that this idea isn't necessarily constrained to a phone form factor is also pretty inspirational.

ommunist• 10 years ago

'Ara' is racist for 'Armenian' in Russia. Its a pity 'Modo' is trademark of Swedish pulp and paper giant.

Project Ara Lives: Google's Modular Phone

Related Stories