Ask HN: Any advice for a disillusioned young developer?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11031580

by 265358 • 10 years ago

17 21 10 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I am currently working as a full-stack engineer at one of the "big" tech companies in the bay area. I also happen to be the youngest FTE (hired at 19). I always held a romanticized notion of what it would be like to relocate here and work at a large tech company.

However, since coming here, I have struggled to find purpose in my work, and have also failed to locate any professional or personal allies. I am not challenged by my current role, and I've also found it nearly impossible to gain any leverage or visibility within the company. Despite being given consistent positive feedback, I'm always being told that promotion / recognition is just around the corner, or I just need to complete a few more projects, while my peers are moved ahead. This pattern has negatively affected my self confidence and job engagement, as well as my attitude towards software development and "tech culture" in general.

I'm not necessarily trying to identify the cause of this issue as much as I am trying to decide whether it's worth staying in SV and potentially facing many more years of unhappiness, or whether I should relocate elsewhere and accept that Silicon Valley and I just aren't meant for each other.

Has anyone else faced a similar situation?

calcsam2• 10 years ago

Yes. Get a new job.

Go to Hired or Indeed Prime, list yourself, and watch the offers come in.

This is your first full-time job, right? Some jobs are good. Some jobs are good for a while. Some jobs are never good. It seems like this one was good for a while.

I suspect that as the youngest FTE, there's a lot of internal politics around promoting you. Possibly it involves you not having a college diploma (I assume you don't). So leave. Go somewhere else, where your talents will be recognized.

Incidentally, a friend of mine is 21yo, was hired at 19 as a full-stack dev at his fast-growing startup in SF, promoted, and is now leading a team. I'm sure you guys would enjoy meeting each other. Email me (email in profile) if you want to be connected.

2653585• 10 years ago

Thanks for your input. I probably should've mentioned that I've been working full time for around five years now, albeit at smaller companies. I will definitely be reaching out!

_RPM• 10 years ago

How do you work full time for 5 years if you're 19? 19-5 = 15 years old. Wouldn't you have had required schooling to do as required by federal law?

jcr• 10 years ago

Going from what you wrote, you have a sample size of only 1 company.

You're definitely smart enough to know a sweeping assessment of silicon valley based on a single, isolated sample is a mistake.

Since you are talented enough to get hired by a "big tech company" in silicon valley at the age of 19, then you're definitely talented enough to find tons of other work here. There is _TONS_ of fascinating and rewarding work being done here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whoishiring

https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11012044

Before you go hopping into a new job, realize that nearly every task, paid or personal, can occasionally feel like an unrewarding slog. Heck, even contributing to fun stuff, like open source or HN, can occasionally feel like a frustrating struggle, annoying hassle, pointless toil, or thankless grind. When those lackluster moments happen and you can take a short break, just divert your attention to something interesting for a while until they pass.

Also before you go hopping into a new job, have you been rewarding yourself with spending free time doing interesting side projects?

Is there any technical itch that you've always wanted to computationally scratch?

If you pick the right itch, you may end up creating your own startup. As John Belushi once said, "If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own." The same applies for jobs.

Of course, having a full time engineering job will keep the lights on so to speak, and it gives you the opportunity to spend your free time experimenting on side projects you love. Lastly, don't forget that the Bay Area has _TONS_ of different types of user groups, maker sites, and enthusiast clubs with regular meet-ups. There are also plenty of conferences and professional groups here. All of these groups, places, and events are a humongous asset to the curious and are thoroughly enjoyable.

Silicon Valley is what you make of it.

2653585• 10 years ago

I probably should've mentioned that I have been working full-time for around five years, albeit at smaller companies. I do have a side project that I am very passionate about, but I can never seem to find the time or get motivated enough to work on it, unfortunately. I very much appreciate your insight into having side projects, and will definitely put more effort into that.

CyberFonic2• 10 years ago

From what you write it appears that you are referring to a "big" yet new (aka Startup) company. It is not unusual for promises being made and endlessly deferred.

Look outside of your company to build up a network of allies. There is a variety of opportunities, so you need only make an effort to get out there and socialise.

The fact that your peers are promoted from around you suggests that you might be showing you negativity at work. You might want to consider that the same negativity could be making it harder to cultivate friendships.

Cypher• 10 years ago

Yea I resonate with similar experience, I've been working for a tech company for 8 years. I found myself worked into an agile silo and my confidence dwindled to an all-time low as the once creative problem-solving tasks turned to maintenance. I tried to solve the issues by tinker a lot in my spare time and exploring new technologies and ideas. However I'm finding it eats up all my spare time and I get burned out and mentally drained. My plan is to save up enough to support my family for 6 months and take a break to find a new path.

danjoc• 10 years ago

It sounds like your gut is telling you to bail, but your heart is wanting to hang on to that "big" tech company for prestige or whatever other reasons.

I agree with the other posters. Look for a better offer. In my experience, big raises or promotions don't really happen. I've gotten my two biggest salary bumps by changing employer.

visualsearchsv2• 10 years ago

Have you considered going to a college/university, assuming you did not go since you were hired at 19. College is a fun experience. There is nothing wrong in taking a break and studying/partying. Since you are already good enough to get an FTE position, you shouldn't have trouble when you graduate/leave university.

2653585• 10 years ago

I don't really see much value in it at this point. Taking a break and pursuing other interests or starting a company, maybe. But academia has just never suited me. Which is a big part of why I dropped out. While I can't say I know I wouldn't enjoy it, I do know that conventional education is not something I'd consider a worthwhile investment.

invalidOrTaken• 10 years ago

I do not have any advice for the issue you're worried about.

I do have some advice that is still good, though.

It is: save up some money.

Being broke sucks. I don't advise it. If any of your plans involve "Be broke for a while," I would advise against that plan.

That's all. I wish you good luck with the rest of it. It's just that the problem you're complaining about is an ambiguous one that I can't help with very well from here. But the one I mentioned is not ambiguous, so I mentioned it.

2653585• 10 years ago

This strikes me as extremely valuable advice. Thank you so much.

nartz• 10 years ago

Im just reading into it, but you sound both depressed, and also like you are finally growing up =D.

Things aren't always beautiful and rosey. You will find eventually how to take a longer-term view of the world, to slow down, to start enjoying the day to day by living it. Or you wont.

SFjulie1• 10 years ago

The fact big companies in SV have been caught in a no poaching pact gives an indication of how workers are considered by the owners: just lemons to be pressed. They even strip you from your moral and patrimonial rights on any of your inventions in exchange for some ridiculous equities that give them fiscal advantages. And they call it "advantage". For whom? You do the valuable original part of the job.

In exchange, like a kid you have free lolipops and you have a nice kindergarten kind of ambiance, where immaturity and attitude prevails. You are distracted from thinking.

I faced your situation. I find modern IT mildly innovative nowadays and promises made at hiring often never held, IT culture often toxic. Especially the lack of critical thinking.

Take some vacations. Whatever you plan next. You may have good reasons to be disillusioned. (or none, the thinking is up to you)

Sometime just enjoying life is the right solution to a lot of problems. Because, fuck the IT. Your life and the search for your own happiness matters more than anything else.

By being honest, you are proving to be mature: trust yourself.

EDIT: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11009956

ljw1001• 10 years ago

For the average employee, the main benefits of working for a tech giant are what management theorists call 'hygiene' factors: Pay, benefits, prestige. What makes a job good or bad, though, is intrinsic to the work itself, and the people around you- especially your manager. It sounds like you need to find a job doing work you like, with people you like. You can do that.

Getting work you like generally means something that is challenging, but not overwhelming, in a place where it's safe to make mistakes. Make sure you go in knowing what you'll be working on. This is a lot easier in a small co.

Consider the utility of the product you're making: Is it a net plus for the world? But be realistic. It's the nature of capitalism that most are in it only for the money. If they claim to be about changing the world, you can ask for examples where they went above and beyond for their employees, community, or customers.

On finding a company with good people, do your homework, starting with glassdoor. Avoid any company where more than a few people criticize the CEO or work-life.

For the rest of it, the hygiene factor that matters most is probably commute time. Get a gig where you have some balance in your life, or at least aren't wasting three hours a day going back and forth.

Finally, ask yourself if your expectations are realistic. 19 is pretty young to be disillusioned.

Oh, And see PG's Startup School lecture. And really think about going back to school.

sebastianmck• 10 years ago

Hey, I'm 18 and currently work fulltime at Facebook in London. I can definently relate to some of the things you touched on, feel free to reach out if you'd like to have a chat. Email should be in my profile.

JSeymourATL• 10 years ago

I've also found it nearly impossible to gain any leverage or visibility within the company.

How have you asked?

Can you make a short list of 6–10 senior individuals in your company that you can get access to? These might be Director or VP types.

Ask them (in-person preferably) if they have any projects or assignments you might be able to assist them on. Tell them you're reaching out, looking for a new challenge and professional growth.

They will likely welcome your initiative and assertiveness. And you might be surprised what new opportunities this creates for you.

Ultimately, changing companies and moving away is easy. But the challenge of raising your visibility and getting career traction doesn't go away. You can get what you want, by helping others get what they want.

CyberFonic2• 10 years ago

+10 ! Your suggestion is great! A good strategy to follow for anybody who is seeking to accelerate their progress through the hierarchy.

woolybully• 10 years ago

"full-stack", you say... Do you respect your stack? I've found that not only do I have to respect the customers I'm building for, and believe in the product we're making, I also have to believe in the technology stack we're using. Part of that is a desire to keep my skills current, but a another, large, part is a desire to build something well, something that will last. And that's difficult to do with crappy tools and materials. Also, do you respect the people you're working with? Maybe form a cohort within your company to eventually break off and form another team/project/company.

Ask HN: Any advice for a disillusioned young developer?

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