CHIP Vs. Pi Zero: Which Sub-$10 Computer Is Better?

http://makezine.com/2015/11/28/chip-vs-pi-zero/

by dcschelt • 11 years ago

107 70 11 years ago

agumonkey3• 11 years ago

Who else thinks the built-in wireless capabilities are really making a difference here ?

Scaevolus• 11 years ago

I'd much rather have a little wifi-connected board that I can SSH into than a little board that I can plug into a monitor.

krzyk• 11 years ago

Same here, I would like have IoT than a media center. I would even argue that more of Zeros will have a wifi or ethernet adapter than a HDMI connected.

2bluesc• 11 years ago

I think it makes a huge difference. I'm shocked that there isn't a cheap Broadcom chip on the Pi Zero with 802.11n 2.4/5Ghz and BLE.

analog312• 11 years ago

Lack of built-in networking is a deal breaker for me. At my house, we've been playing around with RPi for quite some time now. We haven't come up with any profound applications, but we're learning things like the Linux command line, Python, and some basic hardware hacking. Two things about networking:

1. We often go out to "sudo apt-get install" etc., to drink from the fountain of free modules that are out there. Just getting anything running seems to require network access.

2. For anything that might benefit from keyboard, mouse, and display, it turns out that the cheapest and easiest source of these things is just an old PC and PuTTY or Remote Desktop.

Excited as I am by the new boards, the original Pi does what I need right now. Most of my projects are conceptual: By the time I've convinced myself that it could run on tiny iron, I'm satisfied and ready to move on to the next project.

Who would ever have thought that we'd be debating about the relative merits of two $10 computers?

agumonkey3• 11 years ago

Good point. Even for free I'd nitpick ... maybe a wifi kit would be enough.

nine_k• 11 years ago

Have you tried Banana Pi? Their boards are cheaper than RPi and often have a differently balanced set of peripherals, e.g. a SATA port.

agumonkey3• 11 years ago

Someone bodge hacked wifi onto it http://www.hackerspace-ffm.de/wiki/index.php?title=Raspberry...

alexandros• 11 years ago

While the CHIP comes out looking good, it's important to note the horrendous AllWinner software stack. Last time I checked, Linux support meant using an out-of-tree sourcedump that was tied to a specific version of Linux (I think 3.0.x?). The sunxi project[1] was trying to mainline a bunch of stuff, but not sure how far that is now. In general, working with the AllWinner chip is much more of a pain if you want to do non-trivial things. Perhaps the CHIP will help improve that situation.

[1] https://github.com/linux-sunxi

geerlingguy• 11 years ago

I've run into this with all the AllWinner-derived boards. The software stack requires more work to set up, has more small bugs that are harder to fix (mostly because there aren't a thousand blog posts and forum topics on the exact fix, like there are with anything Pi/Broadcom-related), and has often incomprehensible documentation that's buried in forums or outdated and slow-to-load sites.

carussell• 11 years ago

FWIW, if anyone missed it, the author of the article here does say that the CHIP will soon be using mainline Linux, but he (unfortunately) doesn't go into detail and doesn't link to a source.

makomk3• 11 years ago

If you're just using it as a headless server, you can run standard Debian on this generation of Allwinner hardware. You download a Debian Jessie installer image from the Debian website, load it on an SD card, hook up a serial console and go through the install process as usual with the standard Debian-packaged kernel. Debian doesn't have the device tree specifying how hardware is hooked up on the C.H.I.P yet because it's new, so this won't yet work on it, but in theory I think that's all that's missing.

eeZi• 11 years ago

Actually, this has lead to an extensive mainlining effort [1] which has resulted in better mainline support than many other boards.

[1] https://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort

teekert• 11 years ago

Imo, a built-in wifi module on the Pi0 would have made it massively more attractive. That way it can be put anywhere with just some sensors added. The SD card is ok, it requires no extra stuff and can even be handy for experimenting, but just adding wifi (which you want in >90% cases if you ask me) means adding a powered hub. Armv7 would have been nice for Ubuntu (Snappy Core or not).

newman314• 11 years ago

Agreed on a cheap board with wifi capability. It would be nice to have a board stuck in the attic without having to run wires.

icebraining5• 11 years ago

You don't need a powered hub, just a split USB cable that runs the power pins to the charger and the data pins to the Pi.

Example: http://www.amazon.com/Insten-Micro-B-USB-Cable-Black/dp/B005...

jepler• 11 years ago

I would not bet on this without a schematic for the new Zero to check against, or a shipping device to test it on. I suspect that the D-/D+ lines of the PWR port are not even connected to the SOC.

The linked cable is probably not appropriate anyway since it is USB 3.0. The 3.0 "B" plug is not compatible with a 2.0 "B" receptacle.

Edit: As far as I can tell from this information about the SOC http://elinux.org/RPi_BCM2835_Pinout there is only one pair of USB D-/D+ lines. I don't see another IC that could act as an onboard hub, so I think it's hardware limited to supporting a single USB port.

X-Istence• 11 years ago

Hey, at least the Pi Zero is secure. It takes the I out of IoT :P

slxh• 11 years ago

and you can always add networking whenever you need it

mwcampbell2• 11 years ago

Does anyone know if the CHIP has analog audio output through a 3.5mm jack? If not, can anyone recommend a cheap ($50 or below) single-board computer that has WiFi and analog audio output?

xena• 11 years ago

I have a board in front of me. It in fact does.

mwcampbell2• 11 years ago

Have you played audio on it? How's the quality and reliability? For example, does it have background noise or limited volume like the Pi model B/B+ (which actually uses pulse width modulation rather than 16-bit PCM)?

kevinpet• 11 years ago

This piece strikes me as downright dishonest. The table purports to be apples to apples, but while the HDMI adapter added in for the pi zero, the $13 HDMI add-on board is not included in the cost section of the CHIP.

An honest comparison would be $23 vs $24 with HDMI, or $10 vs. some lower cost for the pi zero subtracting out the HDMI cable. I'm also skeptical of including the OTG adapter. Maybe it's needed for some purposes, but it's not a generally needed component.

The CHIP appears to be better for IOT experimentation, but the PI is intended to be a general purpose computer, which also includes some hardware integration tinkering capability.

ctdonath• 11 years ago

For this class of gadget, ok to leave out parts that a large percentage of users have lying around or otherwise won't need.

makomk3• 11 years ago

You need the OTG adapter if you want to connect it to a network, or a keyboard and mouse, or anything really. The only USB port on the Pi Zero is the micro-B OTG one. There are lots of interesting applications for the Pi that don't use HDMI at all, but few that don't use networking or a keyboard

lambda2• 11 years ago

The thing they seem to be missing here is that the CHIP isn't a sub-$10 computer. They did a sub-$10 Kickstarter as a marketing effort, but their BOM on this chip is over $10, so it's apparent that they were doing the Kickstarter at a loss just for publicity.

https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/how-to-get-in-the-ne...

The C.H.I.P. manufacturers disagree, and say that it really will be $9 when shipping, but given that it's still vaporware at the moment, it doesn't really make sense to compare to something that has already shipped tens (hundreds?) of thousands of units.

Gys5• 11 years ago

Vaporware !?!?

I have two of them sitting next to me on my desk...

gruez• 11 years ago

He meant $9 CHIP at scale, after the kickstarter orders have been shipped is vaporware

rasz_pl3• 11 years ago

how much did two $9 computers cost you total? postage and tax included?

owenversteeg• 11 years ago

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the elephant in the room: CHIP's real cost. Sure, CHIP "sells" at $9, but "shipping" costs $20. This "shipping" cost remains the same per unit even for multiple items, even when they ship together. Given that shipping from China is subsidized such that actual CHIP shipping costs should be under $1, the "shipping" is clearly paying for the CHIP.

Sure, CHIP is a solid device at $29, and the fact that the CHIP manufacturers pulled off a successful hardware Kickstarter is a feat of its own. But claiming that CHIP is a $9 computer is ridiculous. Additionally, as another commenter mentioned, the CHIP's cost total didn't include a display cable, $13. Re-run the comparison... and the costs come to $46 CHIP, $24 Raspi Zero.

yeukhon4• 11 years ago

Here from US. Element 14 charged shipping + tax = $6.55 + $3.69, total almost $46 for model B. I ordered B+ from MCM (which I believe is also under the same parent company as Element 14) and came at $9.99 shipping without tax.

Does CHIP order charge tax?

I don't think the elephant in the room is just the shipping cost, the overall cost of getting this tiny computer up and running is beyond just some tax and shipping cost. You have to get an SD card, power adapter and an HDMI. Tons of people still run DVI or VGA. If you have a monitor without HDMI you are fucked so you have to buy a converter. I didn't have these so I got them off Amazon and the final cost probably came at about $100? I didn't even get the case, because I made one out of cardboard.

If you have more than one Pi, you need another SD card, another charger, another HDMI cable, so again you are back to full price. There should really be just a way to connect all PIs to a single USB-powered portable drive. SD card is such as poor choice and a poor design decision choice. Sorry.

PI is great for small project, but if there weren't fund for schools to buy all the accessories, I don't know if Pi would take off at $35 price range. It is never $35. Let alone in Zero's case, agree, definitely not at $5.

Fair enough, marketing stun and it may be true that the computer itself is $5, but the fineprint "you have to get the rest yourself at another $30+" is assumed to be common sense.

Oh not to mention the cost of waiting to get one of these tiny computers.

icebraining5• 11 years ago

$100 for an USB power adapter, an SD card and an HDMI cable? You got ripped off. You can get the three for less than $20.

16GB Kingston card: $5.26

AmazonBasics USB charger (2 Amp): $5.99

AmazonBasics high-speed HDMI cable: $4.82

icebraining5• 11 years ago

I completely disagree. SD cards are dirt cheap nowadays - you can get a pack of five 8GB Sandisk cards for ~$16 on Amazon - and they allow the users to carry their own computer home instead of being stuck in the classroom.

derekp7• 11 years ago

Isn't an HDMI to DVI cable a passive cable? That is, are there any DVI monitors that don't also support HDMI over the same connector? Or is that only a standard on newer monitors?

Artemis2• 11 years ago

They actually lowered their shipping costs at the end of the campaign. I had the option to add $3 to my initial order for an additional C.H.I.P. Still expensive, but better.

Gys5• 11 years ago

According to Ars Technica shipping starts at $6 to the US:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/11/remember-that-9-comp...

baxter001• 11 years ago

I'm not really wowed by any element of the Pi0, the drastic component count and associated feature reduction make both the small size and cost unimpressive.

I hate to play this old tune: bit I can't imagine an application that doesn't push the cost up past the £15.50 of the A+ just to reach feature parity.

sixothree• 11 years ago

I look forward to using it in hobby projects.

rasz_pl3• 11 years ago

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kenburns/tiny-arcade-a-...

perfect for micro cabinet running quake

mkoryak• 11 years ago

I bought a "banana pi" which had specs that made it look like a rpi2 killer, but cheaper.

You get what you pay for. 2/3 usb ports never worked. The support was pretty much non-existent.

If the CHIP is anything like that, I don't care if it has 16 gigs of ram. The hardware doesn't matter if you cant figure out how to use any of it.

lsllc• 11 years ago

Picked up an RPi0 yesterday at MicroCenter in Cambridge MA for $5+tax. The power supply was $7.99+tax, $6.99+tax for an 8GB µSD card and I'll have to buy a 40-pin header for it and solder that on, not to mention time to find a ARMv6 distro and burn it ... and still no connectivity (Linux Wifi? Yuck!) ... so yeah, TCO rules!

Not sure the C.H.I.P. will be much better (I am a Kickstarter backer) so I will probably stick with the BBB @ $55/ea or RPi2 @ $40/ea (both not including PSU); at least they both run Ubuntu Snappy and have ethernet built in.

tracker13• 11 years ago

I've tried several similar systems, as well as a couple of Cubox's and I'll include the Ouya here. All of which had some promise, but really failed to deliver.

In the end, today, my htpc is an i3-5010U brix that I've been pretty happy with. It does cost a lot more. I'm hoping the x86 compute sticks will become more available at the sub-100.

I do hope that things improve, but in my own experience, I have not enjoyed these little arm boards which have left me feeling far more locked in than the more proprietary and expensive x86 stuff has.

Though gpio seems cool, I haven't had as much need for it so much as a desire for a cheap general platform to run stuff with video out from.

ddingus• 11 years ago

For those of you expressing thoughts on the actual, "got it working now" cost being significantly higher than $5, you are right, but that's not the point.

Hobby people will pick up 5 of these things and burn though them like components, building this and that with stuff they largely have laying around. I'm in this camp, and I really could plug the $5 unit in and do something meaningful with it.

Besides, $5 isn't much. Anyone exerting any effort at all to package it, kit it, etc... is going to need some margin for that to all make sense. $50 kits are perfectly reasonable. It's plug 'n play that way. If you want to do your own plugging and playing, that's $5, straight up.

Nothing of concern.

Which one is better?

To me, it's all about the ecosystem. That puts the Pi on top by a mile. Tons of support, software, etc... plus there is a high chance of friends being into it, or finding the same, if learning is the goal. No brainer.

Personally, I think this is awesome!

Long ago, I got into a discussion about hand calculators and school. I was young, but I was mouthy and said, "these things will be in the Freddy's Five Dollar Bin right as you walk in the door soon." A few years later, there they were. $4.99, in that bin, right by the door.

These things will end up somewhere like that too. Not quite the same as the calculator, but they are basically disposable compute units for cheap. Get a 10 pack, and use 'em. Get another 10 pack, and use those.

For people in developing places, that low cost matters. For people in poverty overall, it matters.

It's all great to see.

robbles• 11 years ago

I've tried a lot of different development boards, and my experience has been that the OS, drivers, and available software resources make more of a difference for the kind of projects most people use these for. RPi and their community did a great job of making it straightforward to setup and connect things, even when some extra hardware was necessary. I had the opposite experience with multiple versions of the Beagle board, where there were numerous software driver issues and endless half baked guides on using the hardware. I hope that the CHIP boards follow their example, otherwise I'd be very wary of touted benefits like pre-soldered headers and a newer ARM chip instead of "our mission requires it to be easy to use".

CHIP Vs. Pi Zero: Which Sub-$10 Computer Is Better?

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