Hangout: Becoming a freelance developer

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9840328

by adamloving • 11 years ago

79 32 11 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

A few weeks back I sent a survey to my developer friends (results below). I was surprised at how many are interested in learning how to become a freelancer. So, I asked 4 friends who are already freelancing if they'd join a Google hangout and share the story of how they got started. The hangout will be this Wednesday at Noon PDT. Please join us to learn how each of us got started freelancing.

RSVP to the hangout here https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cdkkq1uei70k87ohiaq07sd4o7o?authkey=COmw4ImAtf-a2QE

Survey Results I had 17 respondents to my original survey (here is the survey if you’d like to take it: http://goo.gl/forms/LTAqtJcitT).

What do you DISLIKE about your current job as a developer? (multiple choice)

* 44% said "not enough actual coding." Other popular responses were "work is boring," or otherwise inefficient.

What do you want more of? (multiple choice)

* 75% said "freedom to work only part of the year" * 56% said they want more interesting problems. * 44% said they want more money

If you are NOT a freelancer now, why not? (multiple choice)

* 67% I like the security of a regular paycheck & 401K * 42% I need the health benefits for me or my family

The surprising one was...

If someone made it EASY for you, would you work as a freelance web developer?

* 73% probably, yes * 27% probably not

Admittedly this question was not well phrased since a handful of the respondents are already freelancers or contractors. But still, this is a surprising percentage!

t0mk• 11 years ago

I went freelance in the beginning of the year. I like it so far. I like to be in control of my commitment to projects. That was tough to keep when I had permanent jobs.

I found a customer via contacts in my last job. What also helped a lot is that I did talk on some meetups in my area. I will try to join the hangout though it's 10 PM here in EEST.

'tis me https://www.linkedin.com/in/t0mk88

I really dislike corporate culture and I'm glad to help anyone who wants to quit it. Feel free to ask me about stuff.

adamloving7• 11 years ago

Thanks @t0mk! I've noticed that devs who've had to be "in control of their commitments" do a much better job planning, estimating, and setting realistic expectations.

thirdtruck2• 11 years ago

Thanks. Just reached out to you on LinkedIn.

Radim2• 11 years ago

"44% said Not enough actual coding" and "75% said Freedom to work only part of the year"

...these guys would be disappointed with freelancing :-)

First one is obvious (so many ancillary tasks and worries when freelancing). Second one sounds good... in theory.

adamloving7• 11 years ago

Ha, you're right - I didn't notice the contradiction. I guess we'd all like to work on absolutely fascinating stuff for about 4 hours a day.

jessaustin• 11 years ago

That would probably be a better use of human abilities.

orthoganol• 11 years ago

Yes, can confirm the first. Over half the time I'm basically designing the UI & UX for my clients (I'm a back-end dev), messaging or calling them about how they want certain logic or behavior to work, making my own decisions about what said behavior should be, prioritizing tasks for them, and managing my own task lists & estimates for the sake of my own organization and their invoice requirements.

Jeremy1026• 11 years ago

Most freelancers only work part of the year, but only a small percentage of those freelancers do so because they choose to. For many its due to lack of work.

dejv2• 11 years ago

I became freelancer 8 years ago, while being product manager of successful antispyware software, leading quite a big team spread over three continents. It was nice job, but I find myself to wake up at 5am, code for few hours, then go to work, hate to deal with politics, get back home and code for few more hours.

Then one day I found ad on job board: "Looking for programmer", there was nothing else than this, no description, just header and phone number. So I just ring the phone and the rest is history.

This was my first client and I still working with them today. It is old rusty Delphi 5 codebase. There is nothing fancy about this gig, but it is ongoing thing, the client pay on time and don't demand much. You find to appreciate jobs like this once you become freelancers and will want to stick with this profession for decades.

adamloving7• 11 years ago

Thanks for sharing your story. While I dislike doing little bits of work (couple hours here and there), it's great when the work finds you, and you're on good working terms. A couple of times, I've had a M-W-F setup (on site with a client 3 days a week) - for me that is perfection.

dejv2• 11 years ago

Well, I went full-time shortly after that and been freelancer ever since.

andretti1977• 11 years ago

I went freelance 5 years ago and that was one of the best choices of my life! A lot of coding, a lot of client management, a lot of things, but i wouldn't go back! It gives me the freedom to usually work remotely and that is a great win!

A lot of people will share advices on how to get jobs and how to manage life as a freelance, so i will suggest a different thing: it may be hard to work remotely and alone, so try to know some other freelance so you can have at least a skype call with them daily!

One of my best friend is a freelance web designer and this helped a lot!

This is me: https://it.linkedin.com/in/albertoplebani

eibrahim• 11 years ago

I freelanced for several years then went back to a "regular" job for 3 years and couldn't take it so I am back freelancing for almost 2 years now. It's the best thing ever.

I got very lucky and found a great opportunity that lets me have the benefits of a full-time job and the freedom of freelancing. Basically, 40+ hours a week, steady work, 1099 setup, no benefits and the best part is that it is 100% remote. I don't have to worry about finding work since I always have work. The drawback is obviously I don't have any benefits so you have to pay for all that out of pocket - but if you do the math, it ends up being the same thing with the freedom of being 100% remote.

A few months ago, I decided to use my contacts to setup a consultancy and have 5 people billing now - if you are a developer and want 100% remote and steady work, you can reach me at eibrahim at gmail or you can fill out the online application at https://devcamp.wufoo.com/forms/fullstack-developer-netnode/ - there is no gurantee I can place you right away but I have a ton of work coming my way all the time. It's mostly full-stack dev work but lately I have been getting more and more mobile opportunities.

ps: right now this is for developers in the USA and Canada only but occasionally I get clients/opportunities that don't care about the geography.

theunixbeard• 11 years ago

What kind of markups are you getting on the people you are billing? I noticed in the wufoo form the rates are pretty low:

What hourly rates would you consider *

$30 to $40

$40 to $50

$50 to $60

$60 (this position is not for you)

meraku• 11 years ago

I was a freelancer for nearly 6 years, but eventually got tired of the inconsistent income and the type of work I was doing also got boring, as well as time and energy spent dealing with issues like invoices, taxes, accountants, etc.

One of the things I also missed was being part of a development team, where I could learn from others and work on projects that would be difficult for me to take on alone. Being a freelancer for so long, I also found my skills stagnating, and it was hard to try and pick up new skills when working on new projects that always had aggressive deadlines.

Fortunately, health insurance wasn't a problem at the time as it was available through my wife's job, but being older now and with a growing family, it's definitely something that is a much more important factor.

I've been in a regular job for just over 3 years now, and it's had both good sides and bad. Although being a freelance developer is not something that I particularly miss, I do want to be the master of my own destiny. For that reason, I can't see myself remaining an employee for the long term, though I'm not sure whether that will mean returning to freelancing or something else.

thirdtruck2• 11 years ago

The Home Work podcast is a very useful resource for people working from home, including freelancers: http://5by5.tv/homework. Been listening to it for over a year now.

adamloving7• 11 years ago

Thanks for the tip!

jlarocco• 11 years ago

I like the idea of doing freelance work, but I've always had the impression the jobs were all web development, not very interesting, or required extreme specialization.

Is there a big market for freelance C++ work?

dudul• 11 years ago

Agree. I also would like to start freelancing, but all the ads that I see are for web stuff involving Ruby/Rails or Javascript frameworks. Nothing involving back end work.

adamloving7• 11 years ago

I don't know for sure (I started out as a C++ developer, but I'm a web dev now) - but I'd suspect there is a lot of work out there. A better way to test might be to go to a local developer meet up specific to your skills and ask people where they work. I'd be surprised if there wasn't plenty of work to be had.

meat_fist• 11 years ago

I hope I'm not being nitpicky, but Rails is a back-end framework, and (most likely) some of the Javascript frameworks you're talking about are also back-end frameworks.

gizi• 11 years ago

There is language knowledge (horizontal) and then there's domain knowledge (vertical).

Language knowledge is not just knowledge concerning its grammar, but about its entire tooling environment. In other words, it is not enough to know how to read/write C++. For example, you also need to be very aware of the vast collection of libraries that exists. Otherwise, you will be reinventing the wheel, badly.

While it is possible nowadays to find gigs just with good language knowledge, you will truly become incontrovertible if you know a particular vertical domain. For example, image processing, or biomedical things, or algorithmical trading, or something else like that.

If you are capable of applying sound language environment knowledge onto such vertical domain with the cash to recruit experts for its needs, the recruitment situation will be such that you can name your price and also dictate the terms of employment: freelance, permanent, work-from-home, or whatever suits you better.

rietta• 11 years ago

I've been a freelancer and now an agency owner for years now; in fact my entire career. I will gladly check into the Hangout if I can while in route to the Atlanta Ruby Users' Group meetup.

adamloving7• 11 years ago

Thanks @rietta!

Radim2• 11 years ago

Yes, there is plenty of backend freelancing work too (such as data science/machine learning, as in my case).

Slides from my talk at this year's Berlin Buzzwords on this topic:

"So you want to be a data science consultant (or hire one)? 10 things you should know."

https://berlinbuzzwords.de/session/so-you-want-be-data-scien...

Will join the hangout if I can :-)

zo1• 11 years ago

Is there a video online for the talk you gave? Some basic searches didn't yield anything but your slides.

thumbtackthief• 11 years ago

Will there be a recording of this somewhere? Would love to watch it but not available at this time.

In other news, I'm desperately trying to find some part-time freelance work. I'm a Python/Django dev with 4 years experience that leans a little more heavily on front-end. Ideally would like a mentor-type relationship where I can work with someone more experienced. If anyone has any leads or would like to chat, I'd be much obliged! https://www.linkedin.com/in/pnichols104 https://github.com/pnichols104

adamloving7• 11 years ago

I'll come back and post a link to the video afterwards. If I forget, email me using freelance /at/ adamloving.com

jmgtan• 11 years ago

I just do both. I have my regular 9 to 5 with a big enterprise software company, and when I get home I just work on my freelance projects.

As long as there's no conflict of interest (there's usually none since the scope and scale are totally different), then it shouldn't be a problem.

The only issue is getting newer clients, currently I get projects/clients from word of mouth or from former colleagues. Of course I would want to do this full time since my regular job is mind numbingly boring, but it pays the bills.

dmak• 11 years ago

The biggest reason I am not freelancing right now is I need a visa sponsorship (Tokyo), and I enjoy the company of other skilled employees and the occasional banter.

geekam• 11 years ago

Is there any such thing as part-time freelancing? I have weekends and 2-3 hours a day that I can give. In total, I believe I can give about 20 hours for sure but I am not sure if that's something people like. What are your views on this?

Hangout: Becoming a freelance developer

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