Comparing Node.js with Tcl

http://pietersz.co.uk/2015/06/beating-node-js

by blacksqr • 11 years ago

67 27 11 years ago

pietersz.co.uk

onion2k2• 11 years ago

So some Node written by a self-confessed Node novice, based on a 'hello world' example, and running on an old(ish) verson of Node is actually quite similar in performance terms compared to TCL written by someone who knows how to write a TCL server from scratch. That is not a reasonable comparison. Get someone with some Node experience to write the Node server, then compare them.

tobik• 11 years ago

He uses the Hello World code from http://howtonode.org/hello-node so he did not write the Node version.

onion2k2• 11 years ago

The point it that he's comparing his TCL code (which is as fast as he could be bothered to make it) to a 'hello world' tutorial that was written as an introduction to Node, not as anything that was designed to demonstrate Node is in any way fast.

mhd• 11 years ago

Yeah, even for a benchmark it isn't that good, but I still get sad when I'm reminded that Tcl had all this event-loopy stuff thats' the selling point of Node for years and years. So much wasted opportunity with that language...

graemep5• 11 years ago

How much could you optimize a "hello world"!

I was never all that great a TCL programmer - it was the first language I did any real work in, and I had quite limited experience at the time I wrote that.

amelius• 11 years ago

If it really matters that much how many connections per second you can handle, perhaps Node is not the right tool for the job. Try Go instead, which also runs on multiple cores more naturally.

phpnode• 11 years ago

This is a very silly comparison. There's a huge difference in terms of features and reliability between node's http module and this - http://pietersz.co.uk/software/dandelion-server

I'm sure an equally minimal http implementation using the net module would match or beat that, but since you'd never use either of them in production, the results are meaningless.

keithy• 11 years ago

I mean, I love Node for building my webapps, but if I had to write a fast HTTP server for pure speed I'd probably go with C. But I use Node for NPM just like anyone would use Ruby for Gem. It makes it easy to get a production ready rest app upp and running. I agree with what you said, I don't see the point of this comparison.

graemep5• 11 years ago

I state the point of the comparison in the post: to see how TCL's event loop + my code compres. Node's http module is fairly lightweight, and even if something more minimal would beat my TCL code by a bit it still show what I wanted to, that they are comparable and TCL is an option for event driven servers (at least as far as performance goes)

woah• 11 years ago

Sounds like your title is a distraction.

coldtea• 11 years ago

There's a huge difference in terms of features and reliability between node's http module and this

Yeah, but in which software's favor?

TCL has been battle-tested for decades, even in industrial automation...

Now, this particular server might be just some guy's quick project, but Node also started as a ho-hum experiment...

Tobani• 11 years ago

TCL has been battle-tested for decades, even in industrial automation...

Right but I believe the point was that this http implementation was less battle-tested than node's and that if you're willing to strip away features from the node version, it too could outperform node's version in a microbenchmark.

tempodox3• 11 years ago

Tcl may be tolerable if what you need is on the level of some shell script. Beyond that, it's the most god-awful language I've ever seen, barring only classic BASIC.

So this comparison is as skewed as can be. Writing server (or even client) software in Tcl is a pure travesty.

klibertp4• 11 years ago

I'm sorry, but you're really wrong. TCL is a beautiful language; consistent, easy to extend both semantically and syntactically, it offers a stable and mature ecosystem and is quite performant for an interpreter.

it's the most god-awful language I've ever seen

I wonder, how many and which exactly languages have you seen, used and learned? Are you sure you're versed in PLT enough to be able to really understand all the TCL features and their impact on the language?

I'd say TCL is fairly similar to Lisps and REBOL, which makes it both simple and hard to master. It also makes it very different from BASIC...

[EDIT: typo]

tempodox3• 11 years ago

My exact pain points with Tcl are: (1) No types at all, everything is a string. If strings are all you have to deal with that may be enough but it gets hairy fast for everything else. (2) Dynamic scoping rules and `uplevel` & Co. Do I really have to say anything about that?

nickpsecurity• 11 years ago

Interesting enough, Tcl was one of the past's most versatile tools. We used it in agent-oriented programming in 90's where code could move from place to place to cut data bill. Sandboxes were built for it. Tcl was also used in AOLserver and a related web framework before that became a fad. So, the author's point that Tcl is an option for high-performance event driven apps was proven when the highest traffic site in the world ran on it. I think we have something better today in about every area due to inherent properties of Tcl and labor invested in other solutions. Yet, Tcl delivered plenty in the past, apparently still can, and has potential for people using that sort of thing.

The main potential, though, is portability and future-proofing. Tcl is so ridiculously simple that it's been implemented on about every OS and architecture. That's batteries included due to all the existing code and ActiveState's development tools. People can extend live apps, run shell scripts, configure networks, and so on all using the same (or a similar) language. Any change in underlying platform just requires porting the (simple) lower layers. Makes Tcl a powerful future-proofing option if used judiciously.

Comparing Node.js with Tcl

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