MicroPython and the European Space Agency

http://forum.micropython.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=744

by neokya • 11 years ago

140 28 11 years ago

forum.micropython.org

metafex2• 11 years ago

Does someone know about what SPARC processors they are talking about? I thought (at least for long-range missions) RAD-hardened PowerPC processors where the way to go.

jack12• 11 years ago

Could be LEON, which is still closely associated with the ESA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEON

deutronium• 11 years ago

Theres a nice explanation here on why they chose them - http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/729/why-did-the-esa...

metafex2• 11 years ago

The linked material in the answer is also higly interesting, including details about the RAD-hardening. As the decision was made in 1991 to use the SPARC architecture, it makes sense that they continued the development of their architecture. It is also good to see that there seems to be VHDL code available to tinker with the core in FPGAs. Thank you for the link :)

kristoffer• 11 years ago

The ERC32 + LEON (SPARCv7/8) range of rad hard microprocessors developed under contract from ESA. Non fault tolerant versions of LEON are available as open source VHDL. See www.gaisler.com.

Radhard PowerPC are thing of the past I think. No development since the BAE RAD750?

S4M• 11 years ago

Naive question: wouldn't lua or scheme be more suitable than python to be embedded in microcontrollers?

tdicola• 11 years ago

There really isn't a best or better choice, everything has pros and cons. MicroPython is really nice in that you can write a C (or even inline assembly) extension to the language easily and get access to the low level hardware. It's very similar to writing a C extension with CPython.

frik• 11 years ago

I too wonder why ESA and NASA have chosen Python over JavaScript or Lua? The later has been especially design from the ground up for that task. It probably has to do with that their engineers already know Python and Python has a C API too.

rpcope13• 11 years ago

I feel like regardless of how ubiquitous Javascript is, it's honestly an awful choice for embedded applications (no, most embedded applications don't sport some racecar ARM A7/A8/A9/A15, and shouldn't if it's not absolutely necessary); there are excellent reasons C still dominates here, and would likely be replaced with something like Rust instead of JS. Manual memory management is usually a huge plus on lots of embedded platforms, static typing is really important here, and most of the code is rather low level. These concerns are really sort of exacerbated on stuff going up into space, as the chips tend to be lower density designs, and simpler. Forth is an excellent choice here, and Lua if whatever you're running on can spare some extra CPU cycles. I guess it will be interesting to see how things pan out with MicroPython.

I would imagine if you could do anything to improve on what exists today for embedded, it would be to push things like verifiable systems harder, kind of what like Margaret Hamilton was pushing with USL[1].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Systems_Language

sciurus• 11 years ago

It's not like ESA has commissioned them to start work on a python implementation for microcontrollers from scratch. Micropython already exists and works.

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7840566

mister_m• 11 years ago

Just because it works doesn't mean it is the right solution of course.

stefantalpalaru• 11 years ago

Yes, but the scientists who write the software are not necessarily accomplished programmers so they tend to favor nicer syntax over efficiency.

rebootthesystem• 11 years ago

Sometimes getting things done is far more important than trying to get them done with the most optimal tool, particularly if choice is somewhat subjective.

ised• 11 years ago

I'm not sure that is a naive question. The answer is yes.

cdnsteve• 11 years ago

NASA has been using Python for awhile apparently too: https://www.python.org/about/success/usa/ Great news for the Python community.

izacus• 11 years ago

Python is actually widely used in scientific community, guys working on data analysis from CERN LHC are heavily relying on Python + NumPy + SciPy for their work as well.

It's easy to learn and makes data analysis really easy with "batteries included" approach (and costs way less than often problematic and buggy MatLab on Linux).

jansenvt• 11 years ago

PANDAS really is a great thing

carbon12• 11 years ago

From that link it seems that Python is used at NASA exclusively in ground-based systems. In contrast, the MicroPython+ESA collaboration is supposedly also looking at using the language in "payloads", ie things that go into space.

DonHopkins• 11 years ago

If MicroPython is the opposite of Monty Python, then is the European Space Agency the opposite of the Holy Grail?

antod• 11 years ago

Is that the European Space Agency or the African Space Agency?

hondaz54• 11 years ago

Eh ... I don't know ... AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGghhhhh.

hitlin37• 11 years ago

One of the reason why python is easy to get going is extensive documentation, especially at python.org.

MicroPython and the European Space Agency

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