Hackerspace raided in Sweden

http://forskningsavd.se/2009/11/29/i-can-haz-moar-bout-teh-reid/

by sp332 • 17 years ago

123 53 17 years ago

It is common in Sweden that the police never return computers once they have been raided. If they give it back, it will usually at least take some years, the computers will be old by then.

Ugh. Stuff like this makes me so angry.

weaksauce• 17 years ago

This happens in a lot of countries. It's unfortunate at best, malicious at worst.

wallflower• 17 years ago

Example: 2009 April FBI raid on Core IP Dallas data center

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=546067

> [Core IP CEO] Simpson added that there were 50 businesses without access to email and data due to the raid. "If you run a datacenter, please be aware that in our great country, the FBI can come into your place of business at any time and take whatever they want, with no reason," he wrote.

Bruce Sterling foreshadows "Data Havens"

"A data haven is a computer or a network that holds data protected from government action by both technical means (encryption) and location in a country that has either no laws, or poorly-enforced laws restricting use of data and no extradition treaties."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_haven

est• 17 years ago

Today CCP raided a datacenter in Shanghai and over 10k sites were offline.

http://www.otaku.net.cn/viewthread.php?tid=7339

dbz• 17 years ago

I agree. What will the police even do with the computers? There should be laws against that kind of thing. Seriously disgusting.

ErrantX2• 17 years ago

Agreed though it might not be a completely fair view.

Siezed computers would need to be held on to till after any trial - which could be years away. Otherwise the defence can call any computer evidence into question.

bumblebird• 17 years ago

Couldn't they just keep HDDs and give the rest back? Or would that be too logical.

rick_2047• 17 years ago

It totally looks like the raids described in "Hacker Crackdown" the operation sundevil(citation needed). Even more like the raid of the illuminates game developers.They raid your office for no reason at all. Cant you sue them in anyway?

st3fan3• 17 years ago

I think there is more to this story than people realize.

My Swedish is a little rusty, but from what I read in the media and the police press announcement, the following happened:

The Malmo hackerspace is located in a building that has roots in the squatter/anarchist collective scene. That group was organizing a party there where they were apparently selling alcohol without a proper license.

During the raid of that party, the police simply went through the whole building. Including the hacker space.

If this is what happened then the raid had probably completely nothing to do with the hackerspace and everything with their hosts.

jordanb• 17 years ago

So then the Police entered the building ostensibly to break up an illegal party, and then decided to confiscate the computers while they were there?

That sounds like a fishing expedition to me.

I don't know what the law is in Sweden, but in the US there are 4th amendment protections against that sort of thing.

bigiain• 17 years ago

From over this side of the world it appears those protections aren't actually of any use:

http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=9462

"Police seize DJs' laptops New police chief apparently condones policy that critics call illegal and punitive"

mmelin2• 17 years ago

Sweden does not have any such protections.

All evidence is admissible in court no matter how it was obtained, legally or illegally.

Of course if you can prove that the evidence was obtained illegally you can file charges for that, but the evidence will still be used.

tsally3• 17 years ago

the raid had probably completely nothing to do with the hackerspace and everything with their hosts.

If that's true, than the warrant would have been limited in scope. Clearly it wasn't since the police seized everything. You can be sure there's a larger agenda than busting underage drinkers.

qzio• 17 years ago

well, actually, the hackerspace is located in a building that is rented. The rest of the rented space is used for various of things, i.e. reparation of bicycles, cheap/free restaurant (mondays), concerts etc. The space is not a squatt.

dagw4• 17 years ago

According to the hackerspace page, the police had IT-techs with them from the start. Why would they bring techs with them if they where just going to bust an illegal bar.

fnid2• 17 years ago

Why do they have cut away locks to practice lock picking and blank keys and stuff like that? Sounds kind of shady.

tsally3• 17 years ago

I think you might be misunderstanding what a cutaway lock is. A cutaway lock is a normal lock with portions of the casing made out of transparent material or removed entirely. Their specific function is to practice lock picking. And blank keys aren't tools with a single usage scenario. Good guys and criminals alike use them to copy or make keys. The important thing here is not to judge by the equipment, but by the intent of the owner. Most laws about owning lock picks reflect this pragmatic view.

Also, if you're attempting to criticize the activity of lock picking in general, realize that it is a long standing tradition in the hacker community. Sergey Brin is a prominent example of a "non-evil" person who tinkered with it [1].

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/10/technology/10google.html

_cbsz2• 17 years ago

Local, state, federal, and whatever other applicable laws permitting, you should definitely learn to open easy locks with paper clips (optionally a pair of pliers and a screwdriver as well). We did it on the last day of the graduate-level security course I took, and I will definitely never take the security of locks for granted again.

aerique• 17 years ago

At least in the Netherlands it has been common for hackers to be interested in lockpicking. The irregular magazine Hacktic (which spawned the awesome ISP XS4ALL) used to have features and tutorials about lockpicking.

I assume it is the same for Sweden.

And if you've got a curious mind I cannot imagine why you would not be interested in it!

fnid2• 17 years ago

It's not about being interested in it or not, it's about the appearance. Cops don't know anything about the hacker mind or why they are using them.

Cops aren't hackers. If you're too curious, you can't even be a cop. If I was a cop and I was busting a place doing illegal stuff and I saw lock picking gear laying around everywhere, I would think they are up to no good.

Why everyone here is shocked by thought that cops would think people publicly collaborating to defeat security measures are up to no good is a bit perplexing.

I am not saying they were up to no good. I am saying it is easily believable that they were up to no good. In fact, I would say, cops who did not assume they were up to no good would be remiss in their duties to protect the public, because in most cases, people with that kind of stuff lying around aren't into it for benevolence.

lucifer• 17 years ago

A shady character: http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/tu/slides/feynman.gif

jgrahamc• 17 years ago

I don't think that's fishy, it sounds like normal hackerdom to me. I have a nice set of lock picks and have enjoyed messing around with opening locks for years and years. For me, it's a perfectly normal part of exploring the man-made world.

Joe_Bananas2• 17 years ago

It's nice how they don't mention that the police found 6 pipebombs.

st3fan3• 17 years ago

I seriously doubt that those were in the hackspace.

Sounds more like a serious case of having the hackspace in the wrong building with the wrong neighbours.

Joe_Bananas2• 17 years ago

Well, I don't know who had them, but Sydsvenskan (Swedish newspaper) published the list of impounded goods, and there were 6 pipeboms on there.

stse• 17 years ago

As you seem so concerned with the "facts", a more accurate description would be a "hose bomb" as it's made with a garden hose or similar tubing. The effect is more of a firecracker than an actual bomb.

Snoddas• 17 years ago

The police reports this was a raid on an illegal club, thy were primarily interested in illegal sales of alcohol.

In addition to the stuff taken mentioned in Hackerspaces post http://forskningsavd.se/2009/11/29/i-can-haz-moar-bout-teh-r...

Stuff confiscated. * 860 beers, 33 cl cans. * 39 bottles of booze. * 66 liters wine

Other illegal or "problematic" things found and seized * 6 improvised explosive devices. Of low explosive force, mainly used to make a big bang. * 3 high power green light laser pointers. May need a permit depending on power. * 4 Spring Billy Club or Collapsible Batons. Illegal in Sweden * 3 Cans of pepper spray. Illegal in Sweden. * 1 High Power Slingshot. Illegal in Sweden. * 2 Items of police uniform. This cannot be bought legally * 2 Devices for making keys and key raw-materials.

ranndom• 17 years ago

My advice to these guys:

"Better start including defenses against this stuff in your planned activities - I think since the Dutch boys showed Counterfeiting and Cuff keys on their site(s) in relation to the reprap they may as well have painted a giant red bullseye on all open hardware projects. Naivety is a fearsomely expensive trait. I too was raided 11 years ago lost 8 PC’s and a bunch of software (20,000 worth) all on a false accusation - I gave up even thinking I’d ever get it back years ago... Disperse your assets, wake up to the REAL situation, Police act, then justify those action as necessary. Analyze why you where targeted and THINK. Police time is a scarce commodity, it is not used accidentally. There are 10’s of thousands of us to each one of them. Good Luck.

Sure, I’m paranoid, but, am I paranoid ENOUGH?"

and the last line is a recursive joke... ;-)

Hackerspace raided in Sweden

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