The Way I Work: Jason Fried of 37Signals

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20091101/the-way-i-work-jason-fried-of-37signals.html

by phatboyslim • 17 years ago

177 136 17 years ago

Inc magazine database fail

grinich• 17 years ago

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Ouch. Here's a printer-friendly version with the full text.

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20091101/the-way-i-work-jason-fr...

yan2• 17 years ago

How high-traffic web sites still not obfuscate these errors, or even allow them to happen in the first place, is far beyond me.

jrockway7• 17 years ago

What difference does it make? People are used to weird errors, so it doesn't scare away "normal people" anymore than a fail whale would. People trying to break the code are not aided much by one filename and line number, either.

It's annoying to look at, and I wouldn't do it... but it doesn't really matter.

tibbon2• 17 years ago

We know he certainly doesn't work in PHP, and makes sites that scale a bit better :)

laut• 17 years ago

Not working in PHP doesn't automatically makes sites scale better. Yahoo!, Facebook and more use PHP.

edw519• 17 years ago

I have no idea how many hours my employees work -- I just know they get the work done.

I wish someone would just tattoo this on the forehead of every PHB (backwards, of course).

jrockway7• 17 years ago

Most people's jobs aren't to do work, it's to keep their chair warm. That requires 8 hours a day of work.

staunch• 17 years ago

The basic idea behind office hours is that if you can't make people work, you can at least prevent them from having fun. If employees have to be in the building a certain number of hours a day, and are forbidden to do non-work things while there, then they must be working. In theory. In practice they spend a lot of their time in a no-man's land, where they're neither working nor having fun.

http://www.paulgraham.com/opensource.html "Workplaces"

dolinsky2• 17 years ago

The way I work: Always turn error notification off on live and have a process scanning the error logs so I'm notified of it. This might also be my biggest hangup with using PHP.

wvenable2• 17 years ago

I have PHP put up a nice error page for every error. With (very minor) trickery, you can even put up nice pages for fatal errors. Unless it's a database connection error, I have the site automatically email me a full stack trace and all other relevant details. You don't even have to turn off error notification in the PHP.INI file, you can control that from your script.

dolinsky2• 17 years ago

I believe your trickery involves capturing the output buffer and grep'ing for a fatal error, yes? We thought of doing that, but our site commands too much traffic for that to be a feasible option. If it's something less intrusive, I'm all ears.

nir2• 17 years ago

Why not use set_error_handler() instead of scanning the logs? ( http://php.net/set_error_handler )

dschobel4• 17 years ago

I don't read fiction. I find it a waste of time. There are so many amazing things that are real; I don't need to spend any time on a made-up story.

Pretty strange comment to come from a creative type, no?

jrockway7• 17 years ago

Odd that he watches fictional TV shows.

Anyway, I think many "geeks" forget that you can read fiction for more than just the stories. The writing is usually more expressive, and reading that helps you become a better writer. That's why I read fiction, anyway. (OK, I like a good story, too.)

tptacek11• 17 years ago

How is it "odd" that he watches House but doesn't read fiction? How many millions of people does that describe?

mikepurvis• 17 years ago

That surprises me too. When I've heard that remark in the past, it's always been from someone I could dismiss as being a silly snob.

What's the core of the argument? Is it that fiction is not intellectual enough? What about Milton, Shakespeare, and the profound insights they offer into the way people think? Is it not more interesting (and even persuasive) in that form than as a straight essay? What about science fiction, and the thought experiments it offers regarding our social and political systems?

What about films? Does Mr. Fried also ignore films that tell fictitious stories, or are they acceptable due to the reduced time requirement?

Yeah, I don't know. But it's surprising.

tptacek11• 17 years ago

I'm pretty much the same way: fiction is just not usually interesting to me. That doesn't mean I'm reading tech manuals; it means I'd usually rather read history, essays, or something discursive on science than a story. And Shakespeare? Milton? Seriously?

There's fiction I do read (I took on Infinite Jest this summer, and I'm slowly reading Blood Meridian), but it takes effort to engage with it; nonfiction never does.

Just another perspective.

nandemo• 17 years ago

When I've heard that remark in the past, it's always been from someone I could dismiss as being a silly snob.

Snob? My first reaction is to dismiss them as philistines.

(Of course, I'm often wrong, and philistines are often smart people too...)

jasonfried5• 17 years ago

I don't think it's strange that I don't read fiction. I've met plenty of other "creative" people who don't read fiction either. Nothing against other people reading fiction, I'm just not interested in it.

I watch movies and I'll watch TV shows, but if I'm going to spend dozens and dozens of hours reading, I'd rather read about something that's real. There's plenty of creativity in the real world. More than I'd ever be able to discover in 100 lifetimes.

axod2• 17 years ago

Do you not read fiction at all ever, or just not regularly?

I don't regularly read fiction, but I have about 3 novels that I've read in my lifetime that were absolutely spell binding, like the best movie * 1000. Never been absolutely tied to a book that you literally can't put it down until you finish it?

caffeine3• 17 years ago

I watch movies and I'll watch TV shows ... There's plenty of creativity in the real world

You realize that movies and TV shows most certainly do not constitute the "real world"?

Nobody says you have to read fiction. But it's really a shame to take the weaker forms of escapism the world has to offer you rather than the deeper, ecstatic ones, just because the latter are in book form.

ivankirigin• 17 years ago

Check out this story: "How Nonsense Sharpens the Intellect" http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/health/06mind.html?_r=2...

abalashov• 17 years ago

I agree strongly with your stance on fiction, and am of a similar mind. I was surprised to see someone share it, especially a known "creative" personality, given the tight coupledness of fiction to the worldview and mass-cultural constellation of the technical profession.

Movies and TV shows are principally fiction, sure; I think the salient distinction that people who are prejudiced against "fiction" make is as to the realism and real-world viability of what is involved, i.e. the way that "historical fiction" might stand in contradistinction with Harry Potter-style "fantasy."

I, for instance, as an otherwise ardent nonfictionalist, enjoy Star Trek, but don't enjoy Harry Potter or Tolkien novels. Take that for what it's worth.

kingkawn2• 17 years ago

Some fiction is realer than reality.

antonovka5• 17 years ago

I will come out and say it: categorically dismissing fictional books as "not real" (and therefor uninteresting) is both strange and stupid.

Fiction can be as real as the author wishes to make it, as an endeavor to elucidate their ideas and insights regarding the 'real world' through the telling of a story. I'd never be so audacious as to state "I hate non-fiction, there's very little to learn from boorish, presumptuous, and poorly considered interpretations of the author's reality"

This sort of navel-gazing article is uninteresting and of questionable real-world value, reminiscent of breathless puff pieces on the (soon to be forgotten) luminaries of .com technology that were so popular in the mid to late 1990s.

alnayyir• 17 years ago

I love that on hackerne.ws the poster/creator of the content you're discussing is far more likely to respond to what you're saying.

I've been a programmer (professionally) for 3-4 years now, been coding far longer than that and was wondering what your feelings were regarding CompSci degrees and the necessity (or not) of them.

Also, have you considered separating the "less is less" product and then creating the more "enterprisey" product as a separate entity and allowing your customers to upgrade within your product range instead of having in and out customer numbers?

I mention this as I think of companies that exercise pretty vigorous product differentiation (Microsoft's OEM versus Corporate licensing, Apple-anything) and your comment regarding not wanting to make your flagship product intimidating to new customers.

Just wondering what your thoughts were on those two questions, thanks.

alexjmann2• 17 years ago

Agreed that it's a strange comment. It was about the only thing I disagreed with in that piece.

Surprising too. I often find more inspiration from fiction than non-fiction. Plenty of fiction work has factual elements of science and technology behind them; they are just stylized into a story. Often, it makes the reading more interesting.

tptacek11• 17 years ago

How do you "disagree" with how someone else chooses to live their life? He's not clubbing baby seals.

Sorry; I'm really not "sticking up for Jason Fried" guy, it's just funny how we all get into this rut where everything that's posted here is a subject for critique. I'm as bad as anyone else. But, seriously? How he chooses to spend his spare time?

sgoraya• 17 years ago

I do not find it strange at all - As I get older, I've been reading non-fiction almost exclusively. Not at all meaning to dismiss the value of fiction, but due to time constraints, I'd rather read practical non-fic. that I can apply towards my career (business/marketing, technical, psychology, bios, etc.).

On the flip side, one of my best buddies who has an extremely technical career path reads non-fic. almost exclusively, save for tech manuals.

To each, their very own. Especially when it comes to reading material, music and food.

bayareaguy• 17 years ago

I would urge those who think fiction a waste of time to read Thomas Jefferson's letter[1] to Robert Skipwith. In particular: everything is useful which contributes to fix in the principles and practices of virtue.

1- http://www.sheilaomalley.com/archives/007403.html

tptacek11• 17 years ago

I enjoy cooking, but I'm single, and I don't like to cook for myself. I go out often, but I don't like fancy dining experiences. I find people putting a napkin on my lap uncomfortable, and don't like worrying about using the wrong fork.

That's too bad, because very few fine dining places are about that stuffy service, use-the-right-fork nonsense anymore, and Chicago is an epicenter for creative new food. He should check out Moto, Schwa, or even Alinea; nobody is going to touch his lap.

jasonfried5• 17 years ago

Yup, I've enjoyed some of the great new-wave fine dining places in Chicago and other cities, but I almost always prefer a hole in the wall with great food. I'd rather eat at Club Lago or Club Lucky than a fancy Italian place. I love food so I'll check out any restaurant, but I just feel more comfortable in places like Lago.

tptacek11• 17 years ago

You want to go to the LTH list of "Great Neighboorhood Restaurants":

http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=215187#p215187

Start at the top, work your way down the list.

Two notes:

* This is a PHPBB --- that's it, just a PHPBB --- that gives awards that are so authoritative in Chicago that very trendy restaurants (Kuma's, for instance) hang them in the window.

* As far as I can tell, no other city has anything like LTH, even NYC. The "LTH of San Francisco", for instance, is the CHOW message boards. No trendy restaurant has ever hung a printed-out CHOW message board comment in their window.

dschobel4• 17 years ago

+1 for Schwa. If you're a food geek, it's heaven. Good luck getting a reservation though.

tptacek11• 17 years ago

Concern about getting a reservation has stopped me from going to a lot of places, but in reality all you do is call them up and ask them when the earliest you can get a reservation is, and they'll just tell you. It's usually nowhere near as bad as you think it will be.

dabeeeenster6• 17 years ago

I live about two miles from my office. I drive there most of the time. I should bike more, but I saw someone on a bike get hit two years ago, and it really freaked me out. I figure I'm better off driving.

So not only is he needlessly adding to global CO2, but also to the number of cars on the road. A shame. 2 miles from the office is less than 10 minutes by bike...

dabeeeenster6• 17 years ago

Why am I getting modded down for this? DRIVING TWO MILES TO WORK! That's insane...

xal• 17 years ago

because many people drive their car for less then a quarter of that.

axod2• 17 years ago

Because you're not adding to the conversation, and taking a radical political viewpoint that is really offtopic anyway.

zackattack• 17 years ago

You're a hypocrite, and you're playing a part. "Look at me, look at me. I'm an environmentalist! I'm a good and unselfish person!" But really, you're just looking for an excuse to lash out at someone. I know this because I do it all the time.

Did you know that the #1 reason people buy Priuses is because they like to distinguish themselves as "environmentalists"? If you Really cared about the environment, you would work hard to actually accomplish some change, instead of wasting your time ridiculing someone over the internet.

I don't care about helping the environment right now. And I enjoy ridiculing people on the internet. At least I'm honest.

dabeeeenster6• 17 years ago

I don't quite see where I 'lashed out'. I merely said it was a shame. I never professed to being an environmentalist, I just thought it was a shame that someone with a 2 mile journey to work is unable to feel like they can use an appropriate form of transport. If anything, I am making a comment about the city he is living in and the facilities, or lack of facilities, that it provides.

I do work relatively hard to accomplish change. I cycle over an hour a day to and from work.

But then I'm talking to someone who 'doesn't care about helping the environment right now' which makes me very, very sad to think someone can feel like that. I feel sorry for you.

run4yourlives4• 17 years ago

You do realize that if he only lives 2 miles from work, he's still driving a hell of a lot less than the average American?

So, how long is your commute?

dabeeeenster6• 17 years ago

I cycle to and from work, in London, 14 miles a day round trip. If it's driving rain I take the train.

Keeps me fit, costs me nothing and I get to the office feeling great. It's quicker than any other mode of transport save for maybe a motorbike. Almost carbon neutral, other than the production cost for the bike I suppose.

goodkarma2• 17 years ago

All I'm seeing is:

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goodkarma2• 17 years ago

Okay they fixed the problem. I'd delete my comment if I could but I can't. No need to take away any more of my karma!

Thanks.

fjabre• 17 years ago

Sounds like someone I could chill with. Gyokuro tea is good but it's a bitch to make. Try Silver Needle tea instead. =)

Wonderfully honest and as always I love the stab at the ridiculous hype surrounding gigantic user bases that lose money on 'every meal' served.

An excellent read.

jasonfried5• 17 years ago

Big fan of Silver Needle too. And thanks for the kind words.

ojbyrne2• 17 years ago

"I don't read fiction. I find it a waste of time. There are so many amazing things that are real; I don't need to spend any time on a made-up story"

a little later:

"I just wind down by reading or watching TV. I relate to Larry David on Curb Your Enthusiasm. I also watch House, M.D"

I find that a little weird. I personally think reading fiction is an indication that you have an imagination.

dannyr3• 17 years ago

I think this just proves it's hard to stereotype or generalize anybody - even the creative ones.

ojbyrne2• 17 years ago

I think it's even hard to generalize about yourself. 5 or 10 years from now Jason may have given up on TV, and be cultivating a love of fiction.

tokenadult• 17 years ago

"If a restaurant served more food than everybody else but lost money on every diner, would it be successful? No. But on the Internet, for some reason, if you have more users than everyone else, you're successful. No, you're not."

That seems like an important business principle that is often forgotten in reporting on Internet-based companies. Keeping revenue in mind can have some powerful effects on a company's future. Especially, the example is good because it focuses on making revenue by pleasing customers who could take their business elsewhere.

9oliYQjP• 17 years ago

An interesting thing is that Jeff Bezos is the only investor in 37 Signals according to that article. Amazon.com was the poster boy for "Don't worry about spending money now, we'll be profitable one day" mentality. That said, most other dot com companies slightly misinterpreted this strategy. One thing that Amazon.com did differently than its counterparts which were also losing money was it pursued moderate and steady growth rather than exponential curve growth. I think we see a similar situation these days in startups. It's all about scaling up as fast as possible to millions of users. But here we have a company liked 37 Signals saying "don't worry about scalability, we'll get their one day, just throw more hardware at the problem". Scale eventually, has sort of been a 37 Signals tenet hasn't it? For all the companies pursuing functional this, and threaded-that, jumping onboard the latest greatest languages and platforms for scalability, 37 Signals and Rails is chugging along quite nicely. In fact, I bet they'd reply "What scalability problem?" if anyone were to ask, as they likely don't have one right now.

tedunangst• 17 years ago

The other thing amazon did differently is actually have a revenue stream.

rudin• 17 years ago

Going with the restaurant metaphor, it is a lot easier to get into profit if you have paying customers but they are losing you money, (Amazon) than if the customers are getting a free lunch. The scalability of the internet can really help with the first case while in the second it still isn't sure if you have a viable business model.

JMiao• 17 years ago

+1 for relating with Larry David. I often joke with my cofounder, Sam, that PG/tlb/Paul Buchheit are the Larry Davids of the software world.

ptn• 17 years ago

Plus, they chop your day into small bits, so you have only 20 minutes of free time here or 45 minutes there. Creative people need unstructured time to get in the zone. You can't do that in 20 minutes.

That bit reminded me of pg, because it's something he said too and because of the writing style.

agbell• 17 years ago

This was great. Jason Fried, ordinary dude.

I am considering subscribing to Inc. They have some great stuff (like the street smarts column http://www.inc.com/magazine/columns/streetsmarts/)

hop• 17 years ago

Jason, With all of 37signals beautifully clean and minimalist design and function, I always wondered why your homepage http://37signals.com is so busy - a bunch of text with little whitespace, icons with cartoon word balloons, contrasting colored boxes on a white bg...

Seems like way more noise than signal. Did some A/B testing prove it superior?

kapitti• 17 years ago

Any chance that those remote hobby farms actually have high speed internet available in those rural areas?

HeyLaughingBoy• 17 years ago

Mine does.

mhartl• 17 years ago

Given the history (http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1088-how-not-to-apply-for-a-j..., and the ensuing discussion at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=219085), it's lamentable yet somehow sadly appropriate that this article misspells "37signals" both in the title and throughout the rest of the article. (N.B. I'm with Jason on this one.)

dtran2• 17 years ago

Really interesting question - how much do you need to interact with your coworkers to be effective? Can a company operate with all of its employees working remotely? For those of you that went to Startup School or have heard Tony Hsieh's talk from it, what do you think about the way 37signals employees work vs. Zappos where Hsieh encouraged managers to spend a lot of time outside of work with their team?

jorleif• 17 years ago

I thought about exactly the same thing. What is also worth considering, is if there is a lot of individual variation in the need to interact. In my experience many people are not the "self-driven" kind that are often considered ideal. What should one do with them? Even self-driven people are usually driven only to do some particular things, and these might not be the things that the whole company benefits most from.

dtran2• 17 years ago

I definitely agree that it probably varies for different people - that seems like the biggest challenge of being a manager. Which people do you have to micromanage vs. which people will create amazing things if you just completely leave them alone. What about with co-founders for a startup - do you believe that they should always work together since it's so important that they mold the vision/initial product together, or is there any room to work separately if both people are driven enough?

pistoriusp• 17 years ago

I've read 18 books this year, 14 of those were fictional.

I'm pretty sure that I gained/ learned more from the fictional books. But I guess that's a matter of perception.

P.S. Also a bit annoyed and shocked that people "don't read fiction."

Nekojoe• 17 years ago

I did enjoy reading that interview. It's always interesting to get insight into other people's way of working.

What struck me most about that interview was how it was written. How simple the wording is. It's clear to read, the language he uses is straight to the point and it's concise. I assume the interview as over e-mail. The sentences he uses are short and unambiguous. Plus they're easy to parse. I wonder how long it took to write that interview? If it just comes naturally or if he had to edit and tweak it a lot.

The Way I Work: Jason Fried of 37Signals

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