Iceland to build first temple to Norse gods since Viking age

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/02/iceland-temple-norse-gods-1000-years

by bootload • 11 years ago

119 53 11 years ago

tellarin• 11 years ago

It's interesting to see how much Christianity changed Scandinavia by suppressing parts of the culture, while at the same time so many symbols remains. From the maypole to wishing my relatives God Jul. :)

Grazester• 11 years ago

Interesting that you mention the maypole. In the Caribbean the tinier islands(The Grenadines) that still follow some older European customs burst out the maypole for weddings and in other festival seasons.

Swizec• 11 years ago

Fun fact, in Slovenia we also use maypoles for weddings. Mostly in rural areas though.

arethuza2• 11 years ago

I had no idea the use of the maypole was quite so widespread - I thought it was a particularly English thing. I've never encountered any reference to them here in Scotland.

gurkendoktor• 11 years ago

It's a thing even in Northern Germany, which usually isn't very traditional.

maibaum• 11 years ago

Me neither, and its my last name!

frik• 11 years ago

A maypole is a tradition in several countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maypole#Germany_and_Austria

runarberg• 11 years ago

Actually, pagans (at least some) celebrate jól during the solstice (december 21). Christianity plus the Gregorian calendar moved it 4 days to late.

CmonDev2• 11 years ago

Must be that TV series - quite a boost for national pride.

gaius2• 11 years ago

Not to mention the Avengers movies.

jitix• 11 years ago

And Skyrim

bad_user• 11 years ago

What TV series?

CmonDev2• 11 years ago

Vikings

Jtsummers• 11 years ago

Vikings [1]. I haven't watched it, heard mixed reviews from friends. Critics seem to like it though, and it gets good viewership numbers.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings_(TV_series)

rotinomlled• 11 years ago

Vikings, the TV series, has nothing to do with Iceland.

So it has not boosted our national pride. The thing is that the 'Ásatrúarfélagið' has always been quite visible over here. I've always seen it as a "rebel"-religion over here.

EDIT: after writing this I realize your comment was probably sarcastic :)

B5geek• 11 years ago

I would go there just for that!

k-mcgrady2• 11 years ago

It would be interesting if religion was 'repurposed' eventually in this way. Without getting into a 'does God exist debate' it would be interesting if people who were, for example Christian, that decided there was no God took the good parts of the religion (peace, forgiveness, some of the rituals etc.) and created a branch of it. Maybe it's already been done?

CapitalistCartr• 11 years ago

That sounds like the Unitarians. At least all the ones I've met.

StevePerkins• 11 years ago

Indeed. Although my experience has been that without a common theological dogma holding a congregation together, UU's end up substituting political dogma for the same purpose. In other words, church services are basically MoveOn.org rallies with hymnals. If you're not a radical leftist then you will eventually find yourself lonely and burned out, because the worship of radical leftist political opinion IS their faith.

I'm not entirely sure that you CAN have something like a church congregation without some "glue" for social cohesion. I don't think that "Just be nice" is sufficient. Whether it's a shared dogma, or some shared activity, or (perhaps most effective of all) a shared enemy... groups seem to need a strong purpose in order to endure over the long-haul.

sosuke• 11 years ago

The thing is you don't have to decide there isn't a God, you don't have to change your religion at all, if you have any, to be a good person. We see a very vocal minority who are so loud, obnoxious and get so much air time we think there are a lot of them. I choose to believe there are far more good, moderate and reasonable religious people than there are idiots I see plastered on TV spouting nonsense. Being a good person is not connected in anyway with belief. Christianity already made a new branch to handle all the branches http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Nondenominational_Christianity

k-mcgrady2• 11 years ago

> "The thing is you don't have to decide there isn't a God, you don't have to change your religion at all, if you have any, to be a good person."

Of course. My comment was made as someone who 'doesn't know' but leans towards theism. And you certainly don't need religion to be a good person but as with any writings/teachings there can be value there. For example some people find the guidance of the writings by the Stoics useful. If we took the element of God out of the bible and distilled it down to useful teachings on life I wonder how useful non-religious people would find it. Would it be useful in a similar way to the writings of the Stoics for example?

treehau5• 11 years ago

Actually, Christianity never branched, and has remained virtually unaltered since the first day of Pentecost. http://orthodoxwiki.org/Main_Page

nitrogen• 11 years ago

Being a good person is not connected in anyway with belief.

Not strictly, no, but belief influences decisions, so false beliefs can lead to bad decisions.

dragonwriter5• 11 years ago

Without getting into a 'does God exist debate' it would be interesting if people who were, for example Christian, that decided there was no God took the good parts of the religion (peace, forgiveness, some of the rituals etc.) and created a branch of it.

Without getting into a "does God exist debate", I think there is considerable evidence that the inclusion of the belief in the existence of God and other similar aspects of religion that are distinct from (but part of the justification for) the behavioral elements you call "the good parts" are an important part of the memetic glue that holds the whole structure together.

But, sure, you see things a lot like that in, say, some Unitarian Universalist groups, and even some overtly atheist groups who have similar practical morality to what you call "the good parts" of Christianity, and consciously have adopted ritual structures mirroring those of Christian Churches -- without God -- as ways of maintaining community and venues for organizing charitable, etc., work.

rofl1234• 11 years ago

I think there is considerable evidence that the inclusion of the belief in the existence of God and other similar aspects of religion that are distinct from (but part of the justification for) the behavioral elements you call "the good parts" are an important part of the memetic glue that holds the whole structure together.

The whole structure of what? Europe is largely godless yet the society holds together just fine. There's really no need to confound "treat others as you want to be treated yourself" with anything supernatural.

xorcist• 11 years ago

You describe pretty much most Christians thoughout Scandinavia. Not that they believe God to be non-existent, but that the metaphysical question of existence is pretty much dead and without practical interest. Lutheran Christianity unifies not by blind faith but in your actions.

iskander• 11 years ago

if people who were, for example Christian, that decided there was no God took the good parts of the religion (peace, forgiveness, some of the rituals etc.) and created a branch of it. Maybe it's already been done?

This is a decent summary of Unitarian Universalism. Also, some groups of Quakers lean heavily in this direction. There's still some mysticism there around "being held in the light" and "moved by the spirit" but people seem to mostly mean that metaphorically and don't talk much about God or the Bible.

VLM4• 11 years ago

Freemasonry? I knows it doesn't exactly fit your proposed requirements, but its not totally a wrong answer?

If you're willing to twist the list of "good parts" possibly into an unrecognizable controversial form, there's always prosperity gospel. Most people might not think they're selecting the good parts, but the PG participants obviously disagree.

Another interesting area research along the lines you're discussing would be Buddhism in general and specifically the somewhat heretical writings of Stephan Batchelor.

maxerickson• 11 years ago

Masons carefully state that that they aren't a worship group but demand that you acknowledge a supreme being to become a member. So they sort of reject the rituals and do not avoid the god question.

(for example: http://www.wisc-freemasonry.org/basics-of-freemasonry/qualif... )

drzaiusapelord• 11 years ago

This is exactly what several flavors of secular humanism have tried, but it turns out, without the cultural and memetic stickyness, these things don't become popular. You can have a personal ethical system without a pretend religion. I don't see how this is in within anyone's interest or time. That said, I've seen things like a very liberal interpretation of buddhism take this kind of role. Mostly, it seems, for the benefits of meditation, but this is a small movement. I'm not sure where millenials will fit into all this, but they are even less religiously affiliated than gen-x, which is a good sign, imo.

Personally, if I had a choice, I'd love to see things go towards a more decentralized role (personal and private spirituality) than yet another centralized role like organized religion, even if some new "ethical" religion takes over. I do sometime fantasize about some new spiritualism that's outcome based, but once more than x amount of people are involved, then politics takes over and any ethical integrity is lost.

As a recent dad, I have found no real replacement for all the religious holidays part of my culture. How do you replace Christmas? How do you handle relatives asking when you will baptize your baby? My non-religious wife and I take a hybrid role where we'll celebrate certain things for the sake of family, but won't do others like baptism. I think shopping around for one of the more 'less religious' religions is just a waste of our time and a disservice to our kids. I'd rather teach my kids the history, criticism, and the folly of organized religion than shove them into one my liberal values will tolerate. Dragging them to a Universal Unitarian service just seems to be kicking the can down the road.

VLM4• 11 years ago

"As a recent dad, I have found no real replacement for all the religious holidays part of my culture."

As an older dad, raised by non-denominational parents, you have a categorical error if you think chopping down pine trees, standing in line on black friday, and getting drunk watching football on TV are biblical in nature. (edited to add, we do that stuff for "fun", not because jesus told us)

proveanegative• 11 years ago

As other comments in this thread have pointed out, Unitarianism is one such project. For a very different perspective read what some neoreactionary bloggers have written about repurposing Christianity as a founding myth to fuel a form of traditionalism compatible with a high-tech society. In this society you wouldn't necessarily have to believe in the myth to follow the rites and take part in the festivals, the benefit being the creation of a sort of a lowest common denominator of cultural unity (compare to Shinto in Japan). Unfortunately, I don't know of any master-post overview of their writing on the matter and I am not equipped to summarize it better than I already have.

For general design considerations for a "post-rationalist, post-nihilist" religion, however, I recommend http://www.moreright.net/postrat-religion/. I think you will find some insight in it regardless of what your politics are. I especially like the idea of a "Truth-Myth barrier".

NoMoreNicksLeft• 11 years ago

Without the mysticism, it holds little appeal. Even those people who enjoy ritual often need the thrill of mysticism to goad them into performing those, at least until it becomes habit/tradition.

jackbravo• 11 years ago

It's already happening. I for example, consider myself a kind of atheist-catholic, and I'm not the first one. I go to church (not every sunday, but now and then), go on missionary trips and participate in a local community. It is not easy, as almost everyone does believe in God. But my friends are supportive, and I do get to debate once in a while and is all fun. Plus, I really dig Jesus ethics.

yellowapple2• 11 years ago

Plus, I really dig Jesus ethics.

I know, right? Those fig trees are such scumbags; they totally deserve to wither and die.

;)

Razengan• 11 years ago

Isn't that what Buddhism, Confucianism, Zen and other East Asian philosophy-religions have always been about? A focus on ethics and the human condition without [too much] deity worship?

adamnemecek• 11 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

yellowapple2• 11 years ago

That's more or less my own belief system. I've hypothesized that concepts like God and angels and Heaven and such were likely meant to be metaphorical when they were first conceived, rather than literal - manifestations of certain Jungian archetypes or tropes or however one endeavors to categorize collectively-understood concepts.

I was raised Mormon. The Bible, Book of Mormon, etc. still live in my bookshelf alongside my most treasured books on science and computer programming - partly because of the significance they had on my upbringing and family identity, and partly because one does not have to believe the stories within them literally in order to benefit and learn from them.

In this regard, "holy" scripture is less of a strict historical record (though there are some elements of that as well, embedded within the fanciful depictions thereof) and more of an equivalent to Aesop's fables - stories which were meant to educate, and to convey abstract concepts difficult to succinctly and effectively communicate without such fanciful metaphors.

gaius2• 11 years ago

Consider the ancient Greeks and Romans... There was no Book of Zeus that the priest would read from every Sunday, the gods were useful metaphors for repeating patterns in history and human nature, and they didn't really care what you actually believed. Then along came the Christians and it wasn't enough for them, that you participated in the public rituals, you had to believe too. The Romans were perfectly happy to let people they conquered or otherwise incorporated into the Empire to do as they pleased, exchanging gods and legends willy-nilly. Judaism was fine with the Romans. That put the Christians and the Romans on a collision course. So I see this as a return to the old ways.

dragonwriter5• 11 years ago

Actually, what put the Christians and Romans on a collision course is not that Christians believed in a God that cared about belief as opposed to participation in public rituals, but that Christians believed rather strongly in a God that cared about participation in public rituals, and, particularly, that Christian belief conflicted with participation in the public rituals of the Roman state religion, which while it might not care about belief, did care very much about everyone subject to it participating in its public ritual.

tracker1• 11 years ago

I know a few people in Jewish culture that feel this way.

ExpiredLink• 11 years ago

We see the stories as poetic metaphors and a manifestation of the forces of nature and human psychology.

A perfect religion for atheists.

imjk• 11 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a ploy by Iceland's official tourism bureau. They're quite savvy and very in tune with popular culture. Check out one of their official videos: http://vimeo.com/12236680. BTW, I've been to Iceland and it really is a cool place.

Iceland to build first temple to Norse gods since Viking age

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