Nokia sues Apple for infringement of multiple patents

http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1349562

by mustpax • 17 years ago

29 80 17 years ago

lispm2• 17 years ago

they are getting desperate

buro9• 17 years ago

Nah, they're probably out to implement something that Apple has patented and that Apple isn't willing to licence. I'm betting they'll settle on a patent sharing agreement.

launic• 17 years ago

Yes, it can be this, or it might be as well exactly what the press releases says. In other words, Apple is to arrogant to pay licensing fees for what other are already paying.

"Nokia has already successfully entered into license agreements including these patents with approximately 40 companies, including virtually all the leading mobile device vendors, allowing the industry to benefit from Nokia's innovation."

shiranaihito• 17 years ago

What the hell.. ? I thought us Finns didn't do lame greed-lawsuits.

jonknee• 17 years ago

Maybe it's not a lame greed lawsuit? Nokia has IP in every GSM phone... Perhaps Apple isn't licensing like they are supposed to? We'll have to see how it pans out.

pistoriusp• 17 years ago

If you can't beat them, sue them?

"The patents cover wireless data, speech coding, security and encryption and are infringed by all Apple iPhone models."

I would love to know exactly what they are suing for?

stdan27• 17 years ago

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Am I too pessimistic in thinking they're suing for a 'slice of the pie'?

zokier• 17 years ago

Well, atleast Nokia has done quite a lot of research on that field, so its not just patent trolling.

protomyth2• 17 years ago

Unfortunately, a lot of these patents are the overly broad variety. I wonder if this is just Nokia's attempt to get a cross licensing deal with Apple. The amount that was quoted ($200mil) is extremely low.

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

Ok, I just bought my last nokia phone.

Screw them and the horse they rode in on, this is just a bid of weakness. If you can't compete with your product line in fair ways then you should revamp your product line, not turn to your lawyers.

What a bunch of losers.

I've been using Nokia phones for the last decade, with a two week 'diversion' to Samsung (talk about bad firmware). Nokia has an 'ok' product but it could be a whole lot better, I'm as loyal as can be but software patents are a bad thing and using them like this is just plain dumb.

Bye Bye Nokia, you once were an outstanding company.

crc32• 17 years ago

Are they software patents? It's not clear from the press release.

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

"The ten patents in suit relate to technologies fundamental to making devices which are compatible with one or more of the GSM, UMTS (3G WCDMA) and wireless LAN standards. The patents cover wireless data, speech coding, security and encryption and are infringed by all Apple iPhone models shipped since the iPhone was introduced in 2007"

Pretty clear to me. Encoding, data, security and encryption are all software issues, not hardware issues.

axod4• 17 years ago

I loved early nokia phones, but they seriously can't compete with the iPhone. The nokia N800 etc sounded great but are pretty disappointing.

What a sad thing for them to resort to.

CaptSolo3• 17 years ago

N900 could be interesting in this regard.

zacharypinter2• 17 years ago

Eh. Apple has continually played the patent game to the detriment of others. I don't feel any particular animosity towards Nokia for playing the same game with Apple. With any luck, this will be another example of why our patent system is flawed and needs to be revamped.

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

That's may be true.

But that does not give nokia a free pass to do this either.

mikedouglas• 17 years ago

When has Apple sued another company for patent infringement (not including countersuits)?

GHFigs6• 17 years ago

Apple has continually played the patent game to the detriment of others.

Such as when?

CaptSolo3• 17 years ago

If Nokia has innovated in the mobile communication area, why would it be wrong for them to use their intellectual property rights.

A separate question is if intellectual property is a good idea at all. But that is beyond the question at hand.

Patent trolls are just a bad idea, but in this case Nokia may have created a foundation that the Apple is building upon. Companies pay for licensing technology all the time. USB, Firewire, Bluetooth, ...

rimantas• 17 years ago

Repeating the bit about spending "EUR 40 billion in R&D during the last two decades" adds more weight to it?

andreyf• 17 years ago

Yes, the idea is, they spent 40 billion creating IP, now they get the government to enforce a monopoly on that IP for them. That's the point of patents.

tumult3• 17 years ago

If I flush 50 million dollars down a toilet, can I too have the government enforce broad patents on software practices that are obvious and have existed for years?

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

sent to communication.corp@nokia.com :

Dear Nokia,

For more than a decade I've been a loyal user of your products, pretty much every year or so I would upgrade my phone to your latest model.

Today that comes to an end.

My reason is that I think that companies should compete on quality and price, not to use software patents as a means of stifling competition.

Software Patents were a mistake when they were granted to begin with, to see the proud company that Nokia once was stoop to the use of the dirtiest weapons in business is really sad.

I realize that my voice hardly counts in issues like this, but I figured that by letting you know, you are aware that there is another price attached to this lawsuit.

best regards,

   Jacques Mattheij

pwmanagerdied2• 17 years ago

Doesn't Apple abuse patents too? In Job's original iPhone presentation, didn't he say something like "and we've patented the hell out of it"?

Unless you don't but Apple either, which makes sense.

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

No Iphones here.

axod4• 17 years ago

The system is broken. If a company had a successful product, and didn't "patent the hell out of it", others would get those patents, and sue it.

So personally, I don't blame companies for patenting. I do blame companies that sue.

But the system needs fixing.

rbanffy• 17 years ago

I think Cisco even had a product named iPhone...

GHFigs6• 17 years ago

What constitutes abuse? Is simply applying for and being granted a patent for something you've developed inherently abusive, or have they actually wielded their patents in an anti-competitive way? You'll note that they haven't sued Palm or Google over multi-touch gestures, in spite of a huge amount of press claiming they could and would.

Tuna-Fish2• 17 years ago

I think most of those patents actually concern hardware.

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

Proof please ?

asmosoinio• 17 years ago

"Software Patents were a mistake..."

Have you seen some facts that this would be about software patents? I would guess it is a mixture of hardware and software, from the press release:

chaosprophet6• 17 years ago

Well I'm all for seeing somebody beat Apple at their own patent game, but like somebody said in another comment, this is probably just going to result in a patent sharing agreement. As such I dont really see the need to get so worked up. Besides it would indeed be unfair to the other 40 or so companies which have signed with Nokia if Apple gets away with this.

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

If in a town 50 merchants pay the local mob to not have their windows broken do you think it is unfair for someone to not pay the mob ?

Software patents are just a tool to extort, not an incentive to innovate.

omouse3• 17 years ago

Would you still write that letter if they were instead targeting RIM or some other manufacturer of phones?

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

Yes. I think that software patents are a severe problem and I vote with my feet when it comes to this kind of issue.

I'm sure my one-man-boycott isn't going to impress anybody but that's the sweep your own street argument working for you.

It's a variation on the 'if one percent fallacy', 'if everybody does it then it will make a difference'. And I'm sure that not everybody - or even a small percentage - will do this, after all the only time when it will make Nokia recant is if the loss in sales outweighs their potential gain in this suit.

But that doesn't matter to me. Point of principle. You do software patents, I might buy your stuff. You sue using software patents (and there seems to be some confusion about that, the non-software issues are dead obvious, the software issues should never have been granted or should have become common property the second Nokia started pushing for those things to be accepted as standards).

Nokia was one of the parties pushing hardest to allow software patents in the EU:

http://wiki.openrightsgroup.org/wiki/Software_patents

noonespecial2• 17 years ago

While I strongly disagree with this at best destructive, at worst childish use of our legal system, lets not forget that apple has been only too quick to use similar tactics whenever it suits them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/apple-sues-woolwort...

What do the say about those who live by the sword?

tumult3• 17 years ago

That was a suit to defend their trademark. They just had to stop using the logo.

Nokia is suing Apple because they've been beaten at handsets and are losing money, and someone decided this was their best shot at getting back.

noonespecial2• 17 years ago

Yes but despite the downvotes, I'm sicking to this one. There was litte danger of confusion between brands, Apple basically just made a nuisance of itself.

Apple has a long history of heavy handed legal tactics against much weaker entities, including bloggers and critics. Apple innovates. They have a real product, so they often find themselves on this end of the stick when it comes to patents. In other matters however, they seem quite comfortable swing it. Especially at small heads.

I suppose there's no small element of schadenfreude here to see the tables turned and Apple unfairly harassed by a perversion of the law.

GHFigs6• 17 years ago

Factually inaccurate. Apple did not sue Woolworths. Apple registered an objection against the granting of Woolworth's trademark during the period that the granting agency (IP Australia) specifically asks for objections to be filed.

From Wikipedia's entry on Australian trademark law: If an application is accepted it will be published for opposition purposes for three months, during which time third parties may oppose registration on certain grounds. If there are no oppositions, or any oppositions are overcome, a certificate of registration will issue. The term of registration in Australia is 10 years

bshep• 17 years ago

The release is not clear where the infringement is, but AFAIK the GSM compatibility is in the GSM modem.

I dont know if Apple is liable if the infringement is by the modem in the iPhone since Apple doesnt make the modem, they buy it from another company.

mtarnovan• 17 years ago

Launching this lawsuit at a point where Apple stock is at an all-time high might not be a coincidence.

chaosprophet6• 17 years ago

Yeah and apparently Apple stock fell after the announcement.

Shooter• 17 years ago

Nokia has always been fairly quick on the IP lawsuit trigger, I think. They sued one of my earlier companies (biofeedback and health monitoring in phones/PDAs, etc.) after we demonstrated the devices at a very small (<50 people, including startup teams) conference. They have ridiculously broad patents in the mobile area. And they have very ambitious plans.

Of course, they still have no device on the market that does what our devices could do, and probably never will. I hope Bilski changes some of the patent BS for the better.

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

That's really beyond the pale, and probably even worse than the subject of this article.

kenshi• 17 years ago

It's going to be interesting to watch how Nokia squares up their Pro-Open Source message (see: maemo) with their IP enforcement strategies.

Nokia have of course every right to enforce their IP, but PR wise they look very lame for this move. The timing (just as Apple announces a record quarter) and the fact they clearly have failed to make a competitive product to the iPhone, just makes them look desperate.

Ras_• 17 years ago

Too bad that journalists in Finland can't write about these ...if they want to keep their job.

Nokia is too big a player in a small pond.

cromulent• 17 years ago

"We like competition because it makes us better, but we will not stand for companies infringing on our IP and we will use whatever weapons we have at our disposal."

Tim Cook, Apple COO, Jan 21 2009.

srn• 17 years ago

Isn't apple just as bad with itunes and the palm pre?

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/67615.html?wlc=1256230659

Google isn't immune either

http://phandroid.com/2009/09/25/cyanogen-gets-cd-from-google...

None of these companies are golden. Buy what works for you.

protomyth2• 17 years ago

Well, Apple hasn't sued Palm for a patent violation and Palm is the one violating the USB IF's rules on device identification.

omouse3• 17 years ago

Fucking A. This is going to be awesome :D

stevenbedrick• 17 years ago

What I don't get: the iPhone came out in, what, 2007? Why is Nokia only just now getting around to suing Apple over these patents?

omouse3• 17 years ago

Maybe they were busy making products and trying to sell them? Maybe Apple's lawyers were stalling them and Nokia let it slide?

jacquesm16• 17 years ago

Because they just realized they can't make something that will compete with the Iphone without violating apples patents ?

So they figure rather than to wait they should sue first, hope to get apples attention in a way they can't ignore and 'settle' for cross licensing. And so the madness continues.

Nokia should give up their software patents and simply make a stand instead of going out of their way to look like losers here.

They were one of the most r&d driven companies in the world after Xerox, the stuff they did was pretty groundbreaking, unfortunately in the field of software that allows you to take out patents. That should have never happened. Nokia was one of the parties lobbying the EU very hard to allow software patents:

http://wiki.openrightsgroup.org/wiki/Software_patents

Now you can see why.

johng• 17 years ago

http://www.talkiphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/nokia-s...

Nokia sues Apple for infringement of multiple patents

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