LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015

by pmoriarty • 12 years ago

215 213 12 years ago

archive.wired.com

chippy• 12 years ago

From 2006. Interesting article, not really much about it being a "Geek Drug" apart from the first couple of paragraphs about one programmer's use of it, and a little bit about the late Steve Jobs experience but it has plenty of background information.

thegeek112• 12 years ago

to respond the question in the title: no.

mathetic2• 12 years ago

Care to elaborate?

hepek• 12 years ago

Whenever there's a question mark in the title, the answer is usually no, and the article is linkbait.

I don't know if this rule of thumb applies to this article.

hansjorg• 12 years ago

In the same vein, Freakonomics just did an interview with Wired and WELL co-founder Kevin Kelly, talking about the hippie origins of SV and the personal computer:

http://freakonomics.com/2015/01/22/someone-elses-acid-trip-a...

dynsrv• 12 years ago

LSD Effect : The deadly accident killed four people, including a policeman, and caused serious injuries to four others.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/01/22/police-confirm...

super_sloth• 12 years ago

Over 10,000 people died in drink driving incidents in the US along last year. Distraction from mobile phones also led to thousands of accidents, should they be illegal too?

Let's now throw the baby out with the bathwater.

eCa• 12 years ago

Distraction from mobile phones also led to thousands of accidents, should they be illegal too?

When using any type of vehicle in public areas: Absolutely. And they already are in many places [1] (at least under certain conditions).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_and_driving_safet...

k-mcgrady2• 12 years ago

From the same website:

"Sunday’s bizarre drunk-driving that claimed nine lives near the Gambir train station should serve as a terrible reminder for the authorities and public about the dangers of driving under influence."[0]

[0] http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/01/29/by-way-drunkar...

mathetic2• 12 years ago

Now, this is a statement of fact, which is always nice but I don't see what is the point being made here.

Is it that LSD is a concern for public safety? If so this incident puts it in the same category as drunk driving, texting while driving, and being so horny that you can't look at the road while looking at the woman in the red dress.

This article is two days old and I don't think ME would have published his report yet. So it is not even clear that the driver was conscious.

ada1981• 12 years ago

Yes, don't operate heavey machinery when using any mind altering substance is good default rule. Unless you are a fighter pilot and you've got your Uncle Sam issued speed.

sokoloff• 12 years ago

There are many military flight operations where the requirements of the mission preclude them being done in anything resembling a "normal workday".

I have no objection to those pilots being prescribed/issued go pills.

Igglyboo3• 12 years ago

I don't think single person advocates operating heavy machinery while under the influence of any mind altering drug, legal or not. LSD can be safe to use while at the same time unsafe to drive on, just like alcohol or cannabis.

kirsebaer3• 12 years ago

US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration: "Epidemiology studies suggest the incidence of LSD in driving under the influence cases is extremely rare." http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/lyse...

ObviousScience• 12 years ago

I've always wanted to experiment with taking small doses of LSD (~10-20ug) reguarly.

I thought it would be an interesting experience, since I tend to feel more personable on LSD, especially during the come up/come down from it.

Aaronneyer• 12 years ago

I've actually been doing that on and off since I think around last August. I've found it tremendously beneficial to overall feeling of well being, as well as my work ethic. Especially for programming, I feel much more involved and interested in my work so am usually able to work at a much faster pace. I also share the feeling of being more personable on LSD, as the days when I do microdose, I tend to have far better and deeper conversations with many of my friends.

meo1• 12 years ago

I'd be very interested in experimenting with low doses of certain psychedelics, but the unknown quality, unknown provenance, full dose approach just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I wonder where you could find good quality crystal (or somehow measurable) LSD unless you pal around with very cool chemists. That's the big problem with interesting sounding illegal dugs.

DominikPeters• 12 years ago

But see http://www.gwern.net/LSD%20microdosing

xefer• 12 years ago

Well, I'm still waiting for the fellowship of LSD-fueled Übermenschen to emerge. Until then I'll just try to eat well, exercise more and get enough sleep. That seems to be the key for most elite developers I've encountered.

b6• 12 years ago

Hmm. Maintaining your health in the standard ways is really good. Please keep it up. I'll try, too.

But it bothers me a little bit when you seem put it as if LSD fails at being some kind of neo-caffeine that makes people smarter, more productive, etc.

It really does fail to do that. But that's not how it helps. It's not necessarily that it gives you the answers to the questions you're asking -- it's more like it helps you get perspective and perhaps realize you could be asking better questions.

To me it's as if we typically get kind of tunnel vision of the mind. Imagine if, for a few hours, you could zoom out from your current vantage point, see it compressed, as if from a great height, or maybe at high speed, and suddenly it's much easier to see structures that were much too big/subtle/slow to appreciate before. Or you at least get an inkling that such things exist and that you might want to look for them.

It's very frustrating to evangelize LSD sometimes because it probably will not help you in the ways you care about right now. But it very well may help you in ways you literally cannot understand right now.

droopyEyelids2• 12 years ago

I'll take a step back even from your more modest assessment, and say that well-rounded people are better at programming (among other things) and an LSD experience can add a bit of roundedness to someone who already pushes their comfort zone-- and thats the real extent of LSD's benefit. Just another way to step outside yourself, with all the limited benefit and risk that entails.

Iv4• 12 years ago

You are unlikely to see them go public while it is forbidden to do so, but the list of people who used LSD includes some pretty interesting people.

Personally I run on sleep and quietness, but I think I would be able to put cannabis to good use when it becomes legal where I live. I have found that small quantities allow for a greater concentration on the condition that you refrain smoking to much and not drink any alcohol.

Ollinson4• 12 years ago

the list of people who used LSD includes some pretty interesting people.

This is the definition of survivorship bias.

Shamanmuni2• 12 years ago

If you read "What the Dormouse Said" by John Markoff you could reach the conclusion that a fellowship of LSD-fueled Übermenschen existed during the 60's and 70's and we had the personal computer revolution as a result. And no, I'm not talking just about Steve Jobs and Apple, there were many people involved with the nascent computer industry who turned on, tuned in and dropped out at that time.

Ollinson4• 12 years ago

Unless you can link other eras of technological advance to LSD use this seems like a poor argument.

pnathan• 12 years ago

It's an interesting book. I think the author is too uncritical and not very good at providing the nuances of the ground reality. I do agree with at least a presupposition of the book, which is that the experimental mindset of the time allowed the personal computer industry to come into being.

It is absolutely vital to remember that the corporate computer industry (E.g., IBM, DEC, even the LispMs) were (i) alive (ii) vital, and (iii) doing things that were not to be replicated in PCs until the late 90s & early 2000s. So it'd be a bit interesting to consider the counterfactual "what if no Jobs hasn't been the marketer he was? what if Gates hadn't hustled the way he did?"

arvinjoar• 11 years ago

"Turn on, tune in, drop out" is probably not very conducive to the mainstream conception of "success"... With that said, it's a trip, it can be both rough, frightening and utterly rewarding. I don't think anyone claims that you'll automatically become some demi-God by traveling, but it certainly broadens your horizons.

ShannonSofield• 12 years ago

Reminds me of Richard Feyman taking LSD. He said he had an incredible breakthrough and a moment of pure clarity on a problem he had been working on mid-trip, only to come down and realize his breakthrough was really jibberish and not insightful at all.

Ollinson4• 12 years ago

Feynman was rumored to have used LSD in the late 1960s a handful of times. Feynman denied using hallucinogens, saying he was too scared to damage his brain, but there are credible reports that he did take LSD at least once around 1970.

jwdunne• 12 years ago

Reminds me of my first experience. The trip involved getting something huge, like a big sense of "oh, I finally get it" but now, 3 years later, I'm still trying to figure out what I actually got.

WiseWeasel• 12 years ago

What I got from LSD upon reflection was that my mental pre-processor (what assigns learned categorical and pattern information to incoming data) limits my perception, leading me to overlook important details about the new data, and causing me to lazily follow the same old thought patterns as if on rails. It's often necessary to ignore everything we think we know and look at our current situation with fresh eyes in order to progress.

pmoriarty5• 12 years ago

It's possible that certain insights, realizations, concepts, or thoughts are not easily transferable or translatable from one mind-state to another.

Also, selective amnesia is a common effect of various drugs, including high-dose LSD trips. Dreams are also easy to forget upon waking, leading some to recommend that you try to make what you do remember from dreams (and from trips) concrete in ordinary waking consciousness, through artifacts such as art, music, etc.

Some psychological theories posit that there is a mechanism of repression that occurs when the mind resists the brining of certain subconscious material to consciousness. This is one reason that some therapists recommend one does not venture too deeply in to the subconscious without a trained guide. You might not be ready to handle what you find on your own.

danenania• 12 years ago

LSD seems to disproportionately affect the mind's capacity to visualize complex systems and relationships, so even if you aren't being all that novel or insightful in your thinking, the ability to really see what you're pondering in a larger and more detailed way than you've ever experienced can feel like an incredible aha moment, even if you haven't actually figured anything out. The glamor of the vision can be seductive.

Another issue is that it can be very difficult to stay focused long enough to transcribe what you're experiencing mentally in any sort of comprehensible way. Just as you're a few words into your description of a vast and intricate concept, 5 completely new ones come rolling in.

Not that I'm any sort of expert, but the solution seems to be various forms of mental discipline. Meditation and trying to remain a dispassionate observer (versus an impassioned epiphany seeker) can help to slow things down and make the experience less chaotic.

sago• 12 years ago

We forget sometimes that the mind both thinks about stuff and thinks about thinking.

If you think about making a breakthrough, it is a two stage process. First you have to think the thing, then you have to assess that thing and come to the conclusion that it is a breakthrough. And that in turn makes you feel a certain way.

Often when we dream, or a hallucinate a 'breakthrough' - we're not actually dreaming or hallucinating the thing itself, we're dreamng or hallucinating either of the following stages, we're imagining the experience of assessing something as a breakthrough, or just directly feeling the emotion that would result from a breakthrough.

Because of the way our brains are wired to see causality, we assume that it must be because we actually had the thing that caused the breakthrough. But, tantalisingly, we can't remember exactly what it was. It was awesome, perfect, we remember that, but what exactly, that's gone now, damnit.

I think LSD can definitely expand the mind in the sense of letting you experience the mind in a different way. But I'm very skeptical that 'insights' can be brought back from a trip. The excitement and emotion of that insight, certainly, but the actual insight itself seems never to be quite explicit.

murbard2• 12 years ago

Yes, this is important.

Everyone probably has experienced dreams where they stumble upon a powerful, deep, great idea. Upon waking up, the idea generally turns out to be trivial.

Psychedelics and entheogenics often give you the feeling of profundity. They put you in the same mind state you have when you contemplate a truly deep thought, but that doesn't necessarily mean the thoughts are particularly deep.

That said, that doesn't make the experience entirely valueless. First of all, it's fun and interesting, just like riding a roller coaster, reading a book about optical illusions, or listening to music.

Second, many of the insights gained are actually valuable. Not as much as they initially appear under the influence of the drug, but still valuable afterwards. It's an occasion to explore thoughts under many angle, to make connections between unrelated topics. You'll end up throwing out more than half of the ideas the next day, but a few might stick.

olefoo3• 12 years ago

Is it the same six people that keep posting this every 6 to 12 weeks on here?

The usual caveats apply:

1. lsd is illegal, so no quality control and no certainty that that is what you are ingesting.

2. lsd was and is a mythological drug in every sense of the word. Nothing you know about it is true either to the good or to the bad.

3. Just because there are 5 decades of propaganda about the evils of lsd does not mean that there is nothing bad about it.

4. Be skeptical, read the literature; understand the risks you are taking.

tomphoolery2• 12 years ago

lsd was and is a mythological drug in every sense of the word. Nothing you know about it is true either to the good or to the bad.

This is false, LSD is the most researched psychedelic of them all and while we're not entirely sure of the mechanics of its actions (nor do we know of any of these kinds of brain mechanics, that's why the prescription of anti-depressants seems to be more of a guessing game than a science), we're definitely sure of a few things that occur.

LSD is not a unicorn.

olefoo3• 12 years ago

mythological in the sense that all sorts of people build up myths about it and it's supposed powers.

( blinding flashes of insight, make you throw yourself off buildings, make you a god, make you an ant, turn your world inside out, heal all traumas, traumatize the most mentally sound, etc. etc. )

Now while there has been some scientific study of LSD's biopharmacology there is an unfortunate tendency for researchers to sample the product and then become evangelists for the drug. Which tends to render their methodology suspect; Leary being only the most notorious example.

Taek• 12 years ago

LSD is a drug just the same as alcohol and painkillers. There are many irresponsible ways to use it. It is nonetheless something that can be used responsibly.

LSD has many whimsical properties. Many of the things that you see and believe while on the drug have no basis in reality. It can nonetheless change your outlook on the world for the better. It can change the things that you perceive to be valuable in the world, and typically you end up valuing both people and nature more after your experience.

A frequent theme among newbies is "I learned that people are really important, and that I should help them more." Surely this is a good lesson to learn.

"Please trip responsibly."

learnstats23• 12 years ago

1. lsd is illegal, so no quality control and no certainty that that is what you are ingesting.

Non sequitur. Its legality has no bearing on quality control or authenticity.

LSD is illegal so you are taking a legal risk.

spinchange2• 12 years ago

If someone purchases prescription medications from a non-regulated online pharmacy in a remote, third-world country is that simply a legal risk too?

Unless you synthesized it yourself or have the ability to analyze it in a lab, you absolutely cannot be certain of quality or authenticity. This is what legally enforced regulatory standards are all about ensuring. The illegal nature of the drug trade not only lacks provision for that, it influences and informs the behavior of participants on the supply side for economic reasons too.

In a logical vacuum, yes, it is a legal risk. In practical application, the legal risk is often correlated with the quality risk too.

lotsofmangos• 12 years ago

Two and four seem to be in blatant contradiction.

anonbanker11• 12 years ago

This bit of fear, uncertainty, and doubt was brought to you by the Institute For Armchair Psychonauts Who Never Use Drugs.

pyre4• 12 years ago

So advice like this:

4. Be skeptical, read the literature; understand the risks you are taking.

is bad? Is the idea that we should turn off critical thought and blindly accept pro-LSD arguments, while blindly rejecting the anti-LSD arguments? That seems backwards.

jafaku3• 12 years ago

I'd say the first point is kind of important, considering it's a synthetic drug and not a plant. I have no anecdotes for LSD, but a few people died in my city after only a normal dose of ecstasy (no alcohol).

lappa5• 12 years ago

Are you proposing that one should do any drug without skepticism after reading a wired article about it?

lomnakkus2• 12 years ago

I'm sorry, I don't quite get what you're trying to say. Are you saying that using/taking drugs is a prerequisite for talking about drugs (and drug use in general)?

If so: That's total nonsense and an unbelievably unscientific attitude.

olefoo3• 12 years ago

You are not even wrong.

BashiBazouk• 12 years ago

From my experience, I would liken LSD to peanuts. The vast majority of people out there can have a handful of peanuts with no problems. They may like the flavor or not but it won't cause long term harm. A small percentage are allergic and will have a reaction to peanuts ranging from mild sickness to death. LSD is similar, a small percentage of people will have problems mentally with LSD. It might last just a little while, it might cause (or trigger) life long problems. If you are unsure, take a tiny dose, maybe a 1/4 hit and see what happens. Or better yet, take a tiny dose of psilocybin mushrooms as they are the easiest to come down quickly from. Just eat a meal and you will be mostly down in about 45 minutes.

The other thing I discovered was once the paranoia starts to invade every trip consistently, you have learned all there is to learn and it's time to move on. I was annoyed with the paranoia and tried to work through it, though I was somewhat successful, LSD was just not that much fun anymore...

orasis2• 12 years ago

Just eat a meal? I think thats an over-optimistic suggestion?

thinkofnothing• 12 years ago

1. When in doubt, get a testing kit from dancesafe.org and test a sample. This has saved me on a few separate occasions, as 2-C's get passed around as a cheap substitute.

2-4. The past and present purveyors of L treat the substance as sacred. Even though the laboratory synthesis of LSD is rather difficult, it's still rarely sold and usually gifted to fortunate or lost individuals.

mirimir• 12 years ago

Authentication and quality control are obviously problematic with "illegal" (statist BS) drugs. While customer feedback on anonymous marketplaces does provide some assurance, it is easily gameable.

Still, LSD is so potent that adulteration is not a serious risk. Few drugs are hazardous, let alone effective, at doses well under 1 mg. And those that are would not likely be sold as LSD, but rather explicitly as poisons.

Blotter and windowpane are the safest dosage forms, because there is less capacity for adulterants. Starting with a low dose is prudent for many reasons. There's a good discussion of progressive dosing strategy in PiHKAL.

anon012012• 11 years ago

As someone with 10 years drug experience, I'll agree with you. I often see people say LSD is provably safe, when we don't even understand the brain.

I'd say instead that it's empirically proven that some people have suffered from negative psychological side-effects for months after an experience. You just have to read boards. From what I've read, it can last up to 6 months.

A female friend of mine actually had panic attacks for a while after. It's rare but it happens. And from my own experience, I'd say it has changed me probably more than anything else I tried, in ways I can't describe. I'd rather see someone responsible take ecstasy once or once a year, even though it's addictive and potentially neurotoxic, especially without antioxidants, it tends to be a spectacularly positive experience, emotionally and psychologically, a lifetime event. Also there are studies about how it may help against neurosis, shyness and all. And doing it with close friends or a lover, will give memories to cherish. At least it did for me. It's dangerously addictive and very negatively connotated, it doesn't have the esoterically intellectual marketing appeal of LSD, but I'd dare say it's more intellectually interesting, in that its rewards are clear, human and real.

There are a lot of people who take LSD regularly, so it's not that risky, but it's not trivial, especially for intellectual people with anxiety, higher sensitivity, and often difficult lives and childhood. But it's certainly interesting and perspective-shifting.

middle334• 12 years ago

I did some LSD about 35 years ago. More than once.

For a few days afterward it utterly knackered my ability to write good code, or do anything that required concentrated, logical thinking. Also, I felt like crap (think "bad mental hangover" without the horrible side-effects caused by alcohol).

That said, it was a pretty interesting experience. I highly recommend it, just not habitually. Someone (Timothy Leary?) said that the best way to do LSD would be in a sunny English meadow with the Archbishop of Canterbury as your companion.

tomphoolery2• 12 years ago

I know some people who take LSD habitually and I can't imagine how they do it. Personally I'm like you, it feels amazing and is a great way to relax, but I need about a day or two afterward to really let the whole experience settle in.

Iv4• 12 years ago

"Do it in the right place, with the right people"

That said, it is pretty tiring...

ScottBurson• 12 years ago

The Archbishop of Canterbury??? No thanks, I'll take Maya Angelou. (Whoops -- she's dead. Oh well -- you get what I'm trying to say here :-)

woah• 12 years ago

In what form was it? If it was a pill or liquid, it could have been cut.

samstave3• 12 years ago

A pill? I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.

chestervonwinch• 12 years ago

Participants eager to describe their modern-day spiritual LSD experiences were encouraged to contribute to a library of drug experiences on the Erowid website

Reminded me of a paper I've been meaning to read where machine learning was applied to erowid reports of different substances:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1206.0312

shawnz• 12 years ago

For those who don't know: Albert Hofmann has passed away since this article was written. He lived to the ripe old age of 102. RIP.

droopyEyelids2• 12 years ago

Another brilliant mind tragically cut down in the prime of his life by the scourge of illegal drugs :(

Iv4• 12 years ago

I am just sad that this article would be illegal in my country, France.

ohhmaagawd• 12 years ago

Really? What is the law?

pierrec• 12 years ago

Article L.3421-4 of the "Code de la Santé Publique" (law concerning public health) forbids incitation/encouragement of the usage or traffic of classified narcotics, even if it does not lead to anyone actually using them. The sentence is heaviest if it's done near schools. Isn't there something vaguely equivalent in US law?

The interesting part is that the act of presenting classified narcotics under a favorable light (in press for example) is punishable under the same article.

In some regards this is pretty vague, and I've seen government-funded studies that end up presenting cannabis "in a favorable light", so I'm not sure how much this is enforced.

danmaz74• 12 years ago

All hail the internet :)

Pyret• 12 years ago

Human biology is an extreme hurdle on our way to achieve the unachievable: having to sleep, eat, excrete etc. Are there any tech and drugs being developed to deal with these things? For now I'd be contempt to at least control my sexuality :D

reitanqild• 12 years ago

Going a few days w/o much food is quite easy for some of us, -I would skip meals after 1800 in the evening and then skip breakfast and then I could go a few days w/o more than a couple of glasses of orange juice a day. I only did this for less than a week. My uncle said most of the good effects started kicking in after a 3-5 days.

As usual, be careful, I'd say have sugar around.

As for the last point you mentioned there are drugs for this, I just have a feeling you'd rather try without but I'm no expert.

acd• 12 years ago

So we have Lsd, amphetamine, mescaline, ritalin, provigil as mind drugs. Anyone tried Ritalin or provigil long term?

The army uses amphetamine & provigil during long term flying missing during critical operations. So what is illegal for ordinary citizens is legal for the state.

Side not Steve Jobs tried a lot of drugs in India probably a door opener for his mind as have a lot of brilliant rock artists danger being not over using or wasting your talent.

I do not use drugs personally but I find it an interesting subject.

Igglyboo3• 12 years ago

I've been taking adderall(similar to Ritalin) since I was about 12, I'm 22 now. I have actual ADHD and cannot function at work without it, I cannot focus on one thing for more than a few minutes tops. I'm a software developer so this is a huge problem. I had hoped I would grow out of this so I didn't have to take it but I don't see that happening anymore.

AFAIK it hasn't had any negative long term effects on me, short term it kills my appetite so I have to force myself to eat. It was a problem when I was younger, I was severely underweight during highschool but I've been able to manage my weight well for the past few years.

spiritplumber• 12 years ago

There was an attempt to put me on Ritalin in school. This was quickly aborted because my mother was told about it and almost defenestrated the vice principal over it (third story window, so that counts for something).

Giving continued-used psychotropics to developing brains is an excellent recipe for fostering lifelong addiction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zidiWe9yq88

beachstartup• 12 years ago

The army uses amphetamine & provigil during long term flying missing during critical operations. So what is illegal for ordinary citizens is legal for the state.

i have no military experience, but wouldn't the army administer these drugs through medical professionals in a narrow set of circumstances, like a civilian doctor would? i doubt soldiers are allowed to take these meds whenever they want.

amphetamines (adderall) and provigil are prescribed to civilian citizens as well.

WalterSear• 12 years ago

A doctor is usually involved, but, they are still handed out almost like candy.

yoklov• 12 years ago

I used to take Ritalin, and it had serious negative effects on me after a while. When it would wear off I would become depressed and unable to do anything until the next morning when I would take it again. Since then I've been diagnosed with depression in addition to my ADHD, so it's possible that the Ritalin simply exacerbated an existing condition.

I do sometimes wonder if the depression is caused by the fact that I've taken stimulants of one kind or another for most of my adult life, as I don't recall ever being depressed as a child or teenager, at least not in the same way that I recall having ADHD.

I could talk about recreational drugs too (I used psychedelics from time to time in college), but I don't have much profound to say, aside from that you get out of them what you put in, and setting has a large effect on whether it's a mind-opening experience or not.

spdustin2• 12 years ago

Provigil is legal, if prescribed, as it is for pilots. So is amphetamine - that's what Adderall is. I've taken Provigil and actively take Adderall (by prescription, diagnosed with ADD as an adult, best thing I ever did for my career).

Their effects are, ultimately, similar, though with a different time to onset and duration of effect.

meowface5• 12 years ago

As a developer whose (suspected) ADD has been growing worse over the years, I think your post just convinced me to see a doctor about it. It's making work more and more difficult for me.

MichaelGG3• 12 years ago

Stimulants can essentially directly increase your intelligence for a time. You think faster, answers can just pop into your head faster, you can code faster. Laser focus, a sense of unlimited capability, too. A more realistic version of the movie "Limitless".

They don't seem to help with creativity, and can do the opposite. It's easy to get concentrated on the wrong thing. I knew a PHP dev on pro vigil long term, and when he'd take an extra dose of stims, you could tell. A flurry of good idea emails in the morning, then disappeared into his office all day.

But... One time, he spent all day trying to optimize the platform for TLB misses. From PHP code, that made a MySQL call every ten lines. Without the hyper focus and drive of stims, no way anyone would waste a day chasing down such crazy thing. (What annoyed me even more was that this useless but "hard" work received a lot of respect from people that understood less...)

So simulants are best taken when one has a clear idea of what to work on and can get into that work right away. In many cases, I think they're a win, and for thought focused work, like students, mathematicians, programmers, simulants should be more widely available legally. Why should we not want most of the population to have performance enhancing medication? As you note, the state is well aware of the effectiveness.

Also note that stimulants can cause psychosis over time, so there is some risk in having everyone use them all the time. But a measured use, like an afterburner, seems like a good thing to have available.

bjourne3• 12 years ago

The only counter example I have is professional high-level chess players. In typical tournaments they play seven games each taking three hours each. While it's just as competitive a "sport" as football, they don't take any stimulants stronger than orange juice and green tea.

This is why I don't think any performance enhancing drugs work for the average human. Because if there was, thousands of chess players would already have used and abused the shit out of them.

scolfax• 12 years ago

The title of that article seems irresponsible IMO. If someone seeks out LSD on their own I don't see a problem with it, but I wouldn't want to be the one who encouraged them.

umanwizard2• 12 years ago

Why not?

pmoriarty5• 12 years ago

An example of LSD's effect on art: [1] More details here [2]

Then there's the visionary art[3] of Alex Gray.[4]

There's a great book that documents studies done on LSD's effect on creativity.[5]

On the subject of music, LSD famously influenced the Beatles,[6] and many other 60's bands... and which, in turn influenced many others. In fact, there's a very good chance that most if not all of the contemporary music you like to was directly or indirectly influenced by drugs of one sort or another.

[1] http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzp00sBETe1qa88x9.jpg

[2] http://www.openculture.com/2013/10/artist-draws-nine-portrai...

[3] https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=alex%20grey&t...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Grey

[5] http://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-Grou...

[6] http://beatles.wikia.com/wiki/LSD

bjourne3• 12 years ago

The Beatles heavily used alcohol and tobacco too. But really, they were three of the century's most talented and most hardworking musicians with incredible managers and producers and almost unlimited resources.

I can't prove it, but I don't believe there is a causative link between tripping on LSD and writing great music. I do believe there is a causative link between working hard and practicing a lot and writing great music.

For the record, Bob Dylan was baptised in the 70:ties. And if you believe LSD influenced the Beatles, then by the same logic, Jesus influenced Bob Dylan.

TylerE• 12 years ago

On the other hand, there is substantial evidence that LSD changed the Beatles' music qualitatively. They first took the drug in summer 1965. Their next album, Rubber Soul, written and recorded in fall and winter 1965 was a major stylistic shift.

ZeroFries2• 12 years ago

I can think of three ways LSD might influence music production:

1) LSD can cause synesthesia, especially music related synesthesia, which can definitely influence the creation of music in my experience.

2) It can be incredibly inspirational and emotive.

3) It can allow you to explore subconscious worlds and use previously inaccessible information.

gdubs• 12 years ago

The Beatles most transformative drug experience (one that goes hand-in-hand with "working hard") was arguably speed. [1]

1: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2014/08/the_drug_that_he...

extempore• 12 years ago

krylon• 12 years ago

Very interesting, thanks for bringing this to my attention!

jarin2• 12 years ago

I actually tried LSD a couple of times because of this article, back when it was written. It was a pretty enjoyable experience, and I'd recommend it to anyone who is interested in trying it, with a few caveats.

First, you need to have an experienced sitter with you. You're in for the full 8-10 hours, and on the off chance you start having a bad trip (things getting really dark and scary), you need someone to ground you to reality (and change the music or location, which can often instantly snap you out of a mood).

Second, if you're generally comfortable with your own thoughts and have a positive outlook you're much less likely to have a bad trip. This is why I think it's better to do it when you're older and more mature, rather than in your late teens/early twenties. I think you have more of an ability to process what's going on. Many people have the thought at some point during the trip, "What if I get stuck like this?" which can probably lead to a slight panic if you're not good at thinking about your own thoughts and realizing the feeling for what it is.

Third, go out into nature if you can. Preferably with just your friends and not a lot of people around. It's pretty cool.

Finally, the day after you'll feel somewhat drained and probably just want to stay inside and read. The day after, you're totally fine. I think the real long-term effects are kind of just a "tweaking of the dials". I don't feel like it was some super transformative experience, but it was really interesting in a way that's hard to describe, and you learn a lot about your own mind and how it works. I also feel like it kind of cleaned the windows on the way I see the world, in that I feel more positive and open to ideas, and in some ways I feel like I might be more creative now. It might sound hard to believe, but I understand now why they're researching using hallucinogens to treat depression, PTSD, etc.

Anyway, I'm not encouraging anyone to do it, but I will say that emotionally mature people should not be afraid to do it. Also, I never got any kind of signs that it was addictive. I pretty much just did it once, did it a few months later, and that was it for me.

pmoriarty5• 12 years ago

If you didn't think it was a super transformative experience, you probably only took a low dose, and perhaps didn't have the proper set or setting.

Check out the Marsh Chapel Experiment,[1] "Varieties of Psychedelic Experience",[2] the "Psychedelics Encyclopedia",[3] and Erowid's trip reports[4] for examples of people who did have massively transformative experiences.

That said, from what I've read, it's relatively rare for LSD to radically transformative in the long run (for various, psychologically interesting reasons). However, short-term transformation is relatively common, given a high enough dose and the proper set and setting.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_Chapel_Experiment

[2] http://www.amazon.com/Varieties-Psychedelic-Experience-Class...

[3] http://www.amazon.com/Psychedelics-Encyclopedia-Peter-Staffo...

[4] https://www.erowid.org/

devin• 12 years ago

Forgive me for being so glib, but I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.

sillysaurus37• 12 years ago

Third, go out into nature if you can. Preferably with just your friends and not a lot of people around. It's pretty cool.

LSD impairs your ability to feel cold. People have died by taking drugs and then going out into snow. I sadly can't find the proof to back up my claim, but I read about a case of a girl taking ketamine and then going outside and succumbing to hypothermia.

Here's another case of someone dying from drugs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._M._Turner

Turner died after injecting an unknown quantity of ketamine while in a bathtub, presumably drowning while incapacitated by the effects of the drug.

Before jumping down my throat that ketamine isn't related to LSD in any way, I know. It's true. But when you get into a mindset where taking LSD seems like a good idea, taking other drugs starts to seem like maybe-okay. It's no coincidence that the psychonaut I linked to was taking a ton of different drugs including LSD.

I know people are going to be upset with me sweeping LSD under the classification of "drugs." People die from heroin and other hard drugs, but nobody has ever died from an LSD overdose. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the mindset that you're tempted to get once you delve into this scene.

Let's talk about psychedelics. Here's a video of someone jumping out a window after taking a hit of salvia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v26zC-1eCo

People have near-religious experiences after taking LSD, and they'll espouse the wonders of psychedelics while downplaying the risks. But there are risks.

Before taking LSD, ask yourself: Are you sure you want to be a different person afterwards? People everywhere talk about the transformative nature of LSD, so that's what you'll be doing: transforming into a different person. Exploring land is fun because you get to go places you've never seen before. Exploring how chemicals affect your brain is fun if becoming a different person is fun. So don't do it unless you're sure you dislike yourself.

People have often credited significant breakthroughs to taking LSD, but your chances of getting rich from bitcoin are significantly higher than making a huge impact on the world by consuming LSD. It'll certainly have a huge impact on your personal life, though, for better or worse.

pyre4• 12 years ago

LSD impairs your ability to feel cold. People have died by taking drugs and then going out into snow. I sadly can't find the proof to back up my claim, but I did read about a case of a girl taking ketamine and then going outside and succumbing to hypothermia.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the idea of a "sitter" is someone that is not under the influence, so this could negate such effects if one fully follows the advice of the parent post.

Before taking LSD, ask yourself: Are you sure you want to be a different person afterwards? People everywhere talk about the transformative nature of LSD, so that's what you'll be doing: transforming into a different person. Exploring land is fun because you get to go places you've never seen before. Exploring how chemicals affect your brain is fun for some because they become different. So don't do it unless you're sure you dislike yourself.

You could make the same philosophical arguments against "downloading your mind into a computer" or "using a Star Trek transporter." How do you know that the consciousness on the other end is still "you?"

naturalrecursin4• 12 years ago

If you are worried about people not realizing it is cold outside maybe start advocating against drinking.

2anon4this• 12 years ago

People have often credited significant breakthroughs to taking LSD, but your chances of getting rich from bitcoin are significantly higher than
making a huge impact on the world by consuming LSD. It'll certainly have a huge impact on your personal life, though, for better or worse.

You probably won't believe me, but I went from being a directionless loser to going to med school and becoming a successful doctor after an epiphany during an LSD trip. I also invested a 5 figure sum into bitcoin when it was $3 a coin and am now a multimillionaire.

I'm not even going to justify any of the other silly stuff you said with a response.

AgentME• 12 years ago

Before taking LSD, ask yourself: Are you sure you want to be a different person afterwards? People everywhere talk about the transformative nature of LSD, so that's what you'll be doing: transforming into a different person. Exploring land is fun because you get to go places you've never seen before. Exploring how chemicals affect your brain is fun if becoming a different person is fun. So don't do it unless you're sure you dislike yourself.

Couldn't you say that about any life experience?

zethraeus• 12 years ago

Exploring how chemicals affect your brain is fun if becoming a different person is fun. So don't do it unless you're sure you dislike yourself.

This sentence isn't really logically sound. There are lots of reasons to make a transition from a place of satisfaction to a place of uncertain satisfaction. Happy people often explore!

Aside, 'Becoming a different person' implies a large amount of permanence. I'd really enjoy seeing this assertion sourced. Especially with regards to one-time or infrequent use of psychedelics. Could you point me to anything you've found particularly convincing?

gwern2• 12 years ago

I read about a case of a girl taking ketamine and then going outside and succumbing to hypothermia.

Turner and this woman's case are covered in _Ketamine: Dreams and Realities_ http://www.maps.org/books/K-DreamsKJansenMAPS.pdf , by Jansen; he argues that there are extenuating circumstances in those cases and it's not as simple as 'ketamine killed them'.

glynjackson2• 12 years ago

My theory is that there is NO direct correlation between drugs like cannabis or LSD and creativity.

I know some talented people, experiences when I was young was watching friends "stoned"/"high" but talking utter crap! The next day after the trip (without fail) these already smart people "think" they have said or done something profound, but they never did!

Days later, their own creative genius is pushed on a search to find out what they said or did that was so profound/creative. Sometimes they do something amazing, but most of the time they don't!

When I was 20 at university (I'm in my 30s now) a friend of mine took cannabis and LSD for the first time. It was not something I did, not because of any moral high ground, but because it also kinda scared me. During the nightout he started to act really strange, bad trip everyone assumed. That weekend (the day after) his mum called asking us all what he had taken, he had been sectioned under the mental health act. It turned out his family had a history of mental health problems. He was sectioned for almost 2 years and never finished Uni.

pmoriarty5• 12 years ago

Not to discount your observations of a couple of your friends, but if you look at actual scientific studies of LSD's effect on creativity,[1] there is a very clear link.

That said, it's not a panacea or a magic pill. You are not guaranteed to become more creative when you take LSD. You most likely will not become Mozart or Picasso by taking it. It is even possible to misuse or abuse LSD, as you can misuse and abuse alcohol, food, water, and sex.

My own observations of people having unproductive experiences from psychedelics is that they take them in ignorance, without much if any education about what they're taking, without proper respect (ie. to just "party" or "have fun" or as attempted distractions or escapes from lives that are miserable in various ways), in an unsupportive or even actively hostile context, without planning, and without a goal.

They often believe in all sorts of urban myths about LSD and other psychedelics (like that taking LSD seven times makes you "clinically insane", or that LSD damages your chromosomes or makes you stare in to the sun until you go blind, etc), they often mix drugs (which can be very dangerous -- especially when one of those drugs is alcohol), and do really stupid things like driving under the influence.

Is it any wonder that such situations and attitudes lead to bad outcomes? Should drugs be blamed for what happens? Or could some responsiblity for what happens be laid on the shoulders of the people who choose to use them in stupid ways, or on the society that keeps them ignorant or tries to lie about the effects of these drugs or actively tries to harm drug users, or at least make constructive, safe use of these substances very difficult and dangerous?

About your friend who was "sectioned" (I presume this refers to involuntary confinement to a mental institution), it sounds like you know very little of what actually happened to him or his psychological state before or after the incident. I would not be surprised if his family (who you admit have had mental problems of their own) or the authorities overreacted, and that his confinement to the mental institution might have been a much worse experience than his LSD trip.

Finally, an LSD trip can be a very emotionally intense experience. Emotionally intense experiences of any kind could trigger psychotic episodes in succeptable individuals. Such people could have a psychotic episode without any being drugs involved. People with family history of mental illness would do well to be extra cautious before engaging in any activity that might result in an emotionally intense experience.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-Grou...

glynjackson2• 12 years ago

I agree, my few experiences don't prove anything. He mixed LSD, cannabis and alcohol on that night. I also agree, I knew very little about his mental health before that day. His section (involuntary confinement to a mental institution) was not taken lightly. What I do know is Doctors said the drugs (cannabis and LSD) had triggered an underlining mental illness. He developed severe paranoid personality disorder (PPD).

The other point you made is incredibly important, taking such drugs does not guaranteed you will become more creative. It is important you research, why you want to take it and your current/past health problems.

After a lot of research I have personally have taken nootropics on and off for many years. As a programmer I often work long hours, I need to function and problem solve. I found them to aid in learning and memory. Nasty ADHD drugs give me side effects and are just legalised amphetamines. Nootropics like Aniracetam seem to have the same effect with little to no side effects (for me).

baq• 12 years ago

why did I have to scroll all the way down to find somebody that sounds like he knows what he's talking about? a great majority of discussion in this thread is of abysmal quality. legendary HN moderators failed spectacularly this time.

sp332• 12 years ago

Sectioned?

cowsandmilk• 12 years ago

British for committed

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/section#Verb

codeshaman2• 12 years ago

Some people assume that taking LSD gives you some kind of super abilities which would make one more competitive in this world, but it's not what the experience is about. Yes, while tripping, your mind can handle infinity or galactic-sized data sets, visualise abstract concepts and zoom in and out of matter or numbers, but I don't think that's the true power of this substance.

The real power comes from the realisation of who you really are and always have been, it's like you finally 'remember' that this life is just one in an infinity of previous and future 'lives' and that everyone and everything is you. It's the realisation of the fact that you (and everyone else) are in fact God who came into this body to feel separated from himself, that the Universe is some kind of cosmic simulation which you've created since the beginning of time.

This realisation is what frees people from the mundane reality of existence and gives one courage to embark on the craziest of endeavours, which sometimes have the side effect of changing the entire world.

umanwizard2• 12 years ago

Wonderful description and (from what I've heard from people who definitely aren't me) completely spot-on what the experience feels like.

ZeroFries2• 12 years ago

This is exactly what I've felt on a couple separate occasions (both on mushrooms and ayahuasca). The trouble is the rational/ego-based mind kicks in as soon as I'm off them and I begin to question the validity of these assumptions. Whilst sober it seems ridiculous, but whilst on these substances, it's sober everyday life which seems truly ridiculous, like it was so obviously staged and unreal and how could I have not seen it? Ultimately I'm always led back to the same conclusion: we don't and won't ever really know anything beyond our own qualia.

stelonix• 12 years ago

A really beautiful explanation! Here I was going to suggest you to try ayahuasca (since you came up with that from LSD, aya makes it so much more obvious and intense) but then I looked at your username and realized "ah he gets it".

Always nice to find other people with the same views regarding these substances and how they act on us! Specially since I never thought I'd find such interests on HN.

avodonosov7• 11 years ago

Hm, it is too well articulated (people on LSD have trouble to explain even approximately their state of mind), and too precise match to Vedanta philosophy, that I have suspicion that you inherit this formulation either directly from Vedanta / Yoga / Sankhya or from people interested in eastern culture (as hippies and enthusiasts of "mind-expansion" in 60-ies), and then decided their drug experience was exactly this.

codeshaman2• 11 years ago

I've never practiced eastern philosophy, but it's not surprising that people arrive at the same conclusions on psychedelics. See, psychedelic plants/fungi have been around since before humans and people who took them, say, 3000 years ago had the same trips and the same realisations that we have today. Then they came back and wrote about their conclusions, which has sometimes led to the creations of new philosophies or religions.

This is one other realisation that you have while tripping - "I have been in this state before, many times before, but not in this body, I was a yogi in India or a shaman in South America or a philosopher in ancient Greece and I've always remembered: I am. It's always been me."

avodonosov7• 12 years ago

My friend and university classmate - a kind of wounderkind.

He was accepted to university without exams, because he had great results on programming olympics.

Turned out he was also good at chemistry. When he was around 8 his mother arranged him to take chemistry classes with elder schoolchildren. But he dropped the classes because he was borred - he already knew everything taught there.

In university he tried drugs (marijuana, mushrooms). He also bought Hofmann's book with all the formulas and started cooking himslef.

One day he jumped off the roof of their apartment building. His mother found him. She said at first sight she thought it was some garbadge on the street, and then recognized her son.

On his computer he left open Richard Bach's book, with selection active on the phrase "you can fly, Jonathan". He left a note between pages of the Exupéry's book (I don't know exactly on what place, his relatives hadn't pay to that at the moment). The note said to dispel the ashes over the ocean.

The guy doesn't care - he is dead and feels nothing. But it was horrible to see his mother, and father too. He was the only child.

This case makes me doubt LSD and drugs in general are harmless.

I also have evidence the "inspiration" when you're on drugs is false, and actually it's more like a delirium.

Please, don't promote drugs.

UPDATE:

Surprisingly, some people even down-vote this comment, and convince me in telling false story. If so, what are my motives?

If you care, you can find plenty of documented evidence of drugs danger.

BTW, he jumped not because he "convinced himself he can fly", as many commenters suggested. His note said to dispel the ashes over the ocean.

If you heard something similar before - it doesn't make the story false, other way around, looks like such things happened more than once. In my case I am describing a real person I knew for years, and was present on his funeral.

This thread, and many comments here suggest a conspiracy theory -like idea, that anti drug laws and information is a malicious and false propaganda, imposed by state and society. Sorry, but it's just stupid.

It is irresponsible and inappropriate to promote drugs (LSD or whatever). And off-topic for Hacker News. There are people who unstable, who have internal emotional conflicts, etc. For them drug use may be a catastrophe.

stuaxo• 12 years ago

Wow this is awful. Doing any drug by oneself is a bad idea. Something like LSD is a terrible idea. While it might be OK, you need people around you and the right conditions - since it makes you think a bit differently. I doubt any one that was with other people who knew what they were doing would end up like this.

Lambdanaut2• 12 years ago

You are fear-mongering and your argument is pure pathos. If the guy was cooking, he probably wasn't doing LSD at the time of death. LSD is notoriously difficult to homebrew and it was more likely he was doing something that we actually have reason to believe is bad for you.

All drugs aren't the same and blanketing them all as negative because somebody died on a specific drug is ridiculous.

quonn• 12 years ago

I know this is not the main point of your post, but the part that I feel I can comment on:

I also have evidence the "inspiration" whe[n] you [are] on drugs is false, and actually it's more like a delirium.

What does that mean, "false"? The way some of us usually perceive reality might not be true either. Just ask someone suffering from serious depression. It's often a problem of perspective, but they can't simply change that. Being stuck in a particular view also applies to most ordinary people, although this does not necessarily cause suffering. The people who claim LSD is mind-expanding refer to just this: That it might allow you to make such a change of perspective that you otherwise can't.

(I don't mean to say drugs are the way to go if your depressed, by the way. Maybe try meditation.)

avodonosov7• 12 years ago

Well, changing perspective, it's all good.

What I mean, changes in reasoning on drugs are largely glitches, reasoning mistakes due to wrong logical connections and associations between things, which are not really associate. It's like a delirium.

But because drugs also induce euphoria, people think their conclusions and insights are great breakthroughs, new vision, etc.

Actually, when they try to record these new ideas, and try to develop it further later, they find that the ideas are just shallow and based on some mistakes.

adityasankar• 12 years ago

If true, this story is heartbreaking, sorry for your loss. It may be insensitive to suggest this, but there may have been several other factors that contributed to this tragedy, not only LSD. Vilifying the chemical substance isn't the answer here, the same way cars aren't to blame for crashes. Sure, you may not want to take LSD based on your friends experience, but there are several other people in the world who have had positive experiences who will need better convincing.

eof2• 12 years ago

Although that is a sad story, the story itself shows he was cognizant of what he was doing. I think very few people would argue LSD or any drug at all (caffeine included) are harmless in the strictest sense of the word.

But perhaps the potential benefits vs the realistic risks are a good enough investment for some people to make.

Hallucinogens are deeply intertwined with human culture; "promoting drugs" is such a silly idea. It's like "promoting eating".. people are going to do it, period.

Being cognizant of the risks, and honest about the benefits is the only way to truly reduce the harm of drugs in general.

Fear mongering, blanket statements, anti-drug cultural, none of that will ever quench what appears to be an innate human thirst for mind-altering substances.

To accept this as true (which any cursory look at history will show to be the case), is the only way to ever move forward with drug use/abuse.

pmoriarty5• 12 years ago

How many millions of people who never tried any drugs commited suicide?

How many people commited suicide after drinking a glass of milk, smoking a cigarette, or drinking a beer?

No doubt equally tragic stories could be told of many of them, but does it follow that milk, cigarettes, beer, or lack of drug use made them kill themselves?

olssy• 12 years ago

I first heard a variant of this story about 30 years ago, either a lot of kids killed themselves jumping out of windows on acid or it's an urban legend.

Lambdanaut2• 12 years ago

Wikipedia and snopes seem to both think it's an urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misconceptions_about_drugs#Thou...

moe• 12 years ago

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp

avodonosov7• 12 years ago

Urban legend is that drugs are mind expanding.

naturalrecursin4• 12 years ago

Total bull. This story reads like pure drug war propaganda. Go promote your fear and hate somewhere else. if this is even a real story, which it most likely isn't, then I'm sure your "friend" had a mental illness. You're harming everyone by blaming LSD and drugs on this guys death. While your at it you should put the blame on the apartment building for being too high.

scythe• 12 years ago

He also bought Hofmann's book with all the formulas and started cooking himself.

Making drugs is extremely hard, even for people who know lots of chemistry. It also exposes you to a lot of nasty volatile chemicals that, believe me, are waaaaay worse for your brain than any psychedelic. For example, chloroform is a standard solvent used in the synthesis of LSD. In a proper research laboratory, the risks are minimized; in your garage, they aren't: bromomethane doesn't care if you're a genius.

I have the unusual luck to have known several drug chemists. They're not an ordinary bunch of people, not by a long shot. Whether working with things like chlorine on improvised equipment is partially responsible for this pattern I'm not sure, but I think it suffices to say that your friend's case is at the zenith of psycho-chemical recklessness. (Also, the book[s] -- PiHKAL/TiHKAL -- are by Alexander Shulgin)

That isn't a pattern that carries over to typical LSD users -- consider e.g.:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal....

It's also worth noting that people with schizophrenia may be drawn toward euphoric/stimulating drugs:

http://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Abstract/1987/11000/A_Review_o...

Of course, one possibility is that all of these drugs cause schizophrenia; the other, that schizophrenia causes people to enjoy certain kinds of stimulation.

brickmort• 12 years ago

You mentioned that this person was a classmate of yours. Did you know him personally? Is there an article or some kind or obituary that you can link to?

I hate to play devil's advocate, but this story has been told time and time again in different settings. sometimes it's a girl, sometimes its a college student, etc. but it always ends up with the person jumping out of a window/rooftop because they've convinced themselves that they can fly. I'm not saying that this particular story isn't true, but it's become the classic anti-LSD urban myth.

avodonosov7• 12 years ago

He didn't convince himself he could fly - his note said to dispel the ashes over the ocean. I knew him personally, it was more than 10 years ago.

If you heard some similar stories before - it's not strange, probably such things happened many times.

icpmacdo• 12 years ago

Bill Hicks point of view on this classic story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D0BeLz5blM

intopieces• 12 years ago

This sounds suspiciously like a certain episode of the HBO show Six Feet Under:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701990/

kirsebaer3• 12 years ago

Very sad to hear about your friend.

Suicide is one of the most common causes of deaths for young men. Overall, 1-2 people per 100 will die by suicide.

Here is a new large epidemiology study which found that people who used psychedelics had lower rate of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempt: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/22/psychedelic-researc...

It's important to take a statistical perspective when talking about risk.

avodonosov7• 12 years ago

Good comment. But I think in this case the drugs had destabilizing effect on his mind and contributed significantly to the result. At that time he become strange and difficult to communicate.

I am a big believer in scientific approach and statistics. Note though, that studies are often performed incorrectly. For example in your link they describe "reduced likelihood of past-year suicidal thinking" and "reduced likelihood of past-year suicidal planning". But the indicator to observe before making such conclusion is real "successful" suicide cases. We need to compare a drug-using group and non-using group, and compare the number of completed suicides in groups.

For me, it would take more studies, rigid, reviewed and confirmed by other scientists, before shading doubts on psychedelics danger.

bunkydoo• 12 years ago

That was 2006, DMT is the Geek's drug in 2015. The businessman's trip is a lot shorter and cleaner than this shit. You take 1 tab of LSD and you will be going for 10+ hours solid. DMT however - you just throw up some fractals on the external monitors, sprinkle it on some ganja, and then get transported to another universe for 15 minutes that may feel like hours actually. It's great for creative design as it is more a "symmetrical" experience than LSD. It occurs naturally in the brain and is hypothesized to be released by the pineal gland during birth, death, mental illness, falling in love, having children etc.

Some people have reported "aliens" or "mechanical elves" in their experiences with DMT. (I never had anything like this though oddly) This could explain a lot of those area 51 alien reports though - the CIA could have very well have tested this substance alongside LSD in the MKULTRA experiments of the 50's and 60's and had a few test subjects genuinely think they saw aliens due to the fact they unknowingly ingested a psychedelic chemical. Wow, that theory is worthy of a conspiracy Keanu meme....

g0v2• 12 years ago

I've been interested in trying LSD since my friend offered but am hesitant because I don't know how it will interact with my medication (SSRIs).

On a side note, I do like to smoke weed while I'm studying/coding. Things that were not so easily apparent to me before being high often become a given and understanding concepts comes more naturally. It's easier for me to picture in my head how data is being manipulated and where it's going in memory. My skills are only at an intermediate level so this is really helpful when I'm trying to learn more advanced stuff.

eof2• 12 years ago

SSRIs are known to reduce the effects of hallucinogens.

LSD, and hallucinogens in general are extremely useful in personal growth. The novelty of 'reality' literally breaking down can be quite a thrill; and for many people it will be the first time it has ever happened to them; though it can be incredibly frightening as well.

I have been around several people on various SSRIs while they have taken mushrooms or lsd (and one on DMT); it seemed to always be a non-issue.

This is probably a great place to start if you are truly interested and want to understand the risks: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health3.shtml

g0v2• 12 years ago

Thank you for the link, I think this will help a good deal.

UserRights• 12 years ago

A few important things are missing:

Before trying it, get yourself some diazepam, like e.g. xanax or valium, this is a very good treatment if the trip is getting too wild and it will take you down in less than 30-45 minutes, at least to a level where you can relax. This is your "life jacket" and will strongly reduce the danger of your experience becoming a bad trip, just because you will know that you can easily get out if you want to.

Do not buy from strangers, ask an experienced person you can trust. There is a lot of much more dangerous stuff on the black market sold as LSD that can seriously harm your liver or other organs. Having a good trusted source is extremely important. If you can allow, try to get clean, professionally produced substance from switzerland (ask psychologists or other doctors who are open to this).

Do not take it if you are in trouble, emotional stress, despair or feel overwhelmed by your personal situation. This substance will not solve any problems for you. Clean your life up as much as possible before doing it. Yes, LSD is still used to overcome heavy depressions and other serious problems, like e.g. alcoholism, but such a treatment will most likely only succeed with professional psychological care and is a long term process.

Have a nice trip!

pushrax• 12 years ago

Good advice. Just wanted to make a small correction: Valium is diazepam and Xanax is alprazolam, both are benzodiazepines. Most benzodiazepines (and "nonbenzodiazepines"[1]) are effective for the use mentioned.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonbenzodiazepine

atomical• 11 years ago

Dihexa probably has more potential for this generation as a "geek wonder drug." There are people at Longecity who had the compound synthesized and are taking mega doses.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121011090653.ht...

swatow• 11 years ago

I don't see any connection between LSD and geek culture, except for the one programmer who happened to be at that conference.

I'd go further and say that I don't see a strong connection between geek culture and the countercultural movement in general. I see it as a carrot and stick approach by the left. On the one hand, the stick is attacking geek culture as a bunch of sexist racist losers. The carrot is allowing geek culture to be co-opted (recuperated, to use a long out of fashion term) by the countercultural movement. We are allowed to celebrate "hacking" as long as it is considered as part of the grand tradition of countercultural rebellion.

LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

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