Soylent’s Next Chapter

http://blog.soylent.me/post/108074810737/soylents-next-chapter

by ph0rque • 12 years ago

64 133 12 years ago

blog.soylent.me

dankoss• 12 years ago

Maybe they can use some of their millions to ship orders faster than, I don't know, 3-6 months? Get it in the Amazon supply chain and have next day delivery. I'm still waiting on a reorder from a month ago and haven't heard anything since I emailed customer support.

marcbernstein• 12 years ago

The article mentions just that:

"First and foremost, we will be significantly expanding our manufacturing and shipping capabilities. This process has already begun with two new manufacturers that will ramp up our production to more than fifty times its previous rate allowing us to vigorously tackle our order backlog while working toward imminent real-time shipping fulfillment."

blairbeckwith• 12 years ago

First and foremost, we will be significantly expanding our manufacturing and shipping capabilities. This process has already begun with two new manufacturers that will ramp up our production to more than fifty times its previous rate allowing us to vigorously tackle our order backlog while working toward imminent real-time shipping fulfillment.

nateberkopec3• 12 years ago

Amazon just "picks and packs" your product. They don't manufacture it for you. I'm sure 90% of Soylent's supply chain issues aren't in the shipping process but in raw material procurement and manufacture.

ChikkaChiChi7• 12 years ago

I believe production was also halted due to an issue with gas? Too many people complained so they refactored the recipe.

nateberkopec3• 12 years ago

Soylent's website claims they've shipped "over 3 million meals" (1 million bags) since launch. From what I can tell, the first bag was shipped in May 2014.

That's roughly 111/k bags per month since launch. For the first nine months of a company, that's operationally extremely impressive.

The delays for new customers (3-6 months, yikes) seem ridiculous, but if you do the math, I'm surprised it isn't more.

mwill• 12 years ago

Hoping this includes eventual international shipping. I'm an Australian, been eager to give Soylent a whirl. I've ordered a batch from a 3rd party to see how I go with it, but would be nice to have access to the genuine article.

nateberkopec3• 12 years ago

I'm guessing they're so overwhelmed by domestic demand that they don't feel the need to open up the market even further.

schnable• 12 years ago

Lots of GMO soy and carbs, this does not seem healthy at all.

ARCarr• 12 years ago

You say "GMO" as if it's a bad thing.

wdewind5• 12 years ago

And "carbs" as if they are bad things.

jeffreyrogers2• 12 years ago

I think there is a valid argument against GMOs, but it revolves more around the dangers of creating a monoculture (i.e. one bad crop disease could then wipe out a large fraction of the food supply), rather than health risks, since as I'm sure many HN readers are aware, humans have been genetically modifying food since they've been cultivating it.

vtlynch2• 12 years ago

Certainly GMOs can be bad, such as crops that are "roundup ready". Others, like Innate Potatoes (that NPR recently did a story on), can be good. However there is not conclusive evidence on GMOs such as the Innate that prove they dont have negative effects as well. The laws on GMO labeling in American also fall very short of differentiating from "good" GMOs and "bad" GMOs.

Given that I rather not ingest crops modified to resist poison, I just pass on all GMOs.

rjaco31• 12 years ago

I guess it'll still be healthier than a ramen/McDonald diet

jasonisalive8• 12 years ago

Better go back to eating pre-husbandry wild plants then if you're so worried about genetic modification.

latch• 12 years ago

You don't like fruits and vegetables (incl legumes and grains)?

gulpahum• 12 years ago

There are healthy alternatives for Soylent. I've tried Ambronite. It's made of real food and is organic, but it's also more expensive. Its taste is quite strong when mixed with water. Mixing with juice or fruits makes it better. I just wish the price will come down.

http://ambronite.com

plus• 12 years ago

The only soy product in Soylent is soy lecithin.

berberous• 12 years ago

I still am optimistic about the idea and principles behind Soylent, but I got to say, I was not impressed with their initial product (v 1.0 and 1.1).

It gives users horrific smelling gas, and honestly, I generally felt worse on Soylent than after any other type of food I have ever eaten, including junk food. (I didn't mind the taste though.)

They are already at v 1.3 though. Here's hoping that this capital influx allows them to rapidly improve the recipe.

collyw8• 12 years ago

I honestly can't understand the appeal or novelty in it. Ready meals have been available for years. Vitamin tables have been available for years. Where exactly does the difference lie?

Decade4• 12 years ago

Ready meals are designed for taste and palatability, not for complete daily nutrition. (Except for military MREs, apparently.) The idea of Soylent is that it's an inoffensive, cheap, and simple way to eat healthily.

dagw3• 12 years ago

The theory is that, unlike ready meals, Soylent is designed to give you all the vitamins and nutrients a healthy, active adult needs to stay health, in a single package. No need to think about anything or worry about if you're missing anything in your diet, just chug it and go.

Someone12347• 12 years ago

It is a completely self-contained eating system. If it works as advertised you just eat that and you're done, no spreadsheets, no calculating up to make sure you're consuming what you should be, and so on. You should be getting everything you need.

You're paying for the 100% system, not 98%, not 99%: 100% that is the USP. The price is only a little more expensive than eating out ($3.33/meal roughly).

Plus most off-the-shelf "Ready meals" are extremely unhealthy. Many contain transfats and other foot preservatives which are quite bad for you.

cweiss• 12 years ago

FWIW - I found the 'horrific smelling gas' went away with 1.3.

n725• 12 years ago

Serious question: Do they have any actual nutritionists working on the product yet or just a bunch of hybristic 20-somethings who think they can "hack" the nutrition space without any real education, cause, you know, "disrupt!".

TarpitCarnivore• 12 years ago

A better question is what really separates this from any of the other meal replacement drinks/bars out there? To me it just seems like another darling of the Valley built on hype.

I recall reading an interview, or perhaps someone's personal review, stating how it was difficult for them to eat meals and they'd often forget to eat. Soylent solved this problem for them because it gave them an instant meal any time of the day. Upon reading this I thought it was the most ridiculous thing I've read and stupid justification for buying Soylent.

Kiro• 12 years ago

20-somethings

It's funny that this term is used every time Soylent is discussed on HN. Why is that?

Dirlewanger• 12 years ago

Are you seriously asking this? What about their website/marketing video makes you think this is not aimed at millienials? Their founder is a 20-something.

n725• 12 years ago

It has to do with the hubris issue, for me. Typically with age comes the realization that, hey, maybe I don't have all the answers. If there are some hybristic 20-somethings "disrupting" and "hacking" the real estate market or the mobile games market for women from 35-55 years old, and they fail because they thought they knew it all, well, it doesn't really matter. In the case of Soylent, though, they're playing with people's health. This is a big deal and far more healthy skepticism regarding their product is morally warranted. There are millions of years of man-hours which have gone into the study of nutrition and everything I've seen from Soylent just seems to sweep it all under the table.

morley• 12 years ago

I can construct a straw man too:

Do they have any actual smart people working on this, or is it just a bunch of desk-riding "nutritionists" who went to med school 40 years ago when all the books were written by tobacco lobbyists in the 1920's?

Who needs to have a real conversation when you have snark!

n725• 12 years ago

So, next time you feel ill, I trust that, instead of going to a doctor, who went to med school 40 years ago and (in your world-view apparently) is only prescribing medications pushed on him by his pharmaceutical rep and only suggesting procedures that will make him money, you'll take care of your condition by reading up on it on webmd and leaving it at that.

kuida0r3• 12 years ago

Per https://faq.soylent.me/hc/en-us/articles/200789315-Nutrition - The Soylent recipe is based on the recommendations of the Institute of Medicine (IOM) and is approved as a food by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Soylent 1.2 was developed under the close guidance of our nutritional advisor, Dr. F. Xavier Pi-Sunyer, M.D., MPH. Pi-Sunyer is professor of medicine at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons in New York City. At St. Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital Center he serves as chief of endocrinology, diabetes, and nutrition, and is director of the New York Obesity Research Center. Dr. Pi-Sunyer is also a senior attending physician at St. Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital and New York-Presbyterian Hospital.

Someone12347• 12 years ago

Being created by a nutritional advisor and a professor of medicine is legitimately credible.

I just want to add that this:

is approved as a food by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)

Is utterly meaningless. All that means is that everything that goes into the product is "food grade" and that it was prepared in basically sanitary conditions. Nothing more. I highly doubt the FDA has examined their health claims (namely that you could live exclusively off of it). And likely won't unless there is public or political pressure to do so.

As an aside, I wonder if they could get a military or relief effort contract? Seems like the type of product perfect for both, as you "just add water!"

logn2• 12 years ago

Their recipe relies heavily on added vitamins and minerals. As I commented on the other thread today, it's possible to get all daily nutrition from just 5 cups broccoli, 1.5 cups peanuts, and 3 cups milk.

Couldn't you just take any smoothie recipe, blend in a multi-vitamin, and claim it's a food replacement? Don't products such as Boost already do this? I don't understand Soylent's edge here, except marketing.

Soylent Recipe: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0421/5993/t/12/assets/files...

paulojreis5• 12 years ago

This is the team behind Soylent: http://www.rosalabs.com/team/

I share your worries. It's frightening - it sounds like an engineering degree is enough for... everything.

jasonisalive8• 12 years ago

Here's a fascinating concept... if you don't like the product/don't trust the company... don't buy it. Boom. Go back to buying whatever crap new vanilla melto-choc insta-coffee sachet Nestle thinks they can get a 4% ROI on. Or buy some unmilled wheat and chia pods from your local Spirit Journey Nutritionist and spend an hour making artisan flatcakes. Whatever you want really, it's a free world.

ph0rque2• 12 years ago

I've been reading HN's overwhelmingly negative treatment of Soylent (as the concept) with some amusement. I'm glad they're successful, and hope they become even more so.

That said, I was really underwhelmed with the taste of Soylent when I finally got mine. I understand that I can improve it by e.g. blending a banana into the shake, but if I need to take out my blender and prepare other food to add to Soylent, I might as well make a smoothie out of available fruits and veggies.

The next time I order Soylent will be when their price comes down to the point where it's cheaper than the food I buy.

jeffreyrogers2• 12 years ago

This was my experience as well. I'm curious what percentage of people reorder. Nonetheless, I'm happy to see soylent doing well over some of the other startups I've seen addressing really trivial problems that probably are better off without VC funding.

jasonisalive8• 12 years ago

I've been reading HN's overwhelmingly negative treatment of Soylent (as the concept) with some amusement.

It's interesting. HN is supposed to represent some of the world's most dynamic, forward-thinkers. However almost every truly disruptive development is greeted with small-minded negative thinking and parochialism. Bitcoin is scam money for paranoiacs who don't trust banks. Inflation is good for economies. The rich are too rich. We need more and higher taxes and more socialist redistribution of wealth. Soylent tastes bad and destroys traditional food cultures. Uber is too powerful and going to become a monopoly. Google is evil. Without the protection of friendly governments capitalism will exploit the poor. People are too stupid to protect themselves from predatory opportunists (and the government is somehow a perfect vessel to counteract them.) Everything is scary and the way things should be is how a small group of white men who are very good friends with the US government tell us how it should be, which happens to be very similar to today but with more friendly government intervention to fix everything white male programmers are scared of and don't understand.

I guess it'll be entertaining to watch people changing their tune over the coming decades.

TheCapn2• 12 years ago

You're using this as a platform to address other issues than what I think the OP is hinting at.

Soylent isn't "new". It isn't "disrupting" anything. Meal replacement alternatives have existed for decades and there are numerous brands out there that have a medical proven trackrecord that can be obtained for cheaper than the Soylent we're seeing pushed today.

What we have here is a case of "forward thinkers" believing that some crackpot idea from the startup culture is suddenly revolutionary because they marketed it best to this subculture of life. You're a sucker to believing Soylent offers anything revolutionary yet paying above market to have them feed you that lie.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tLIC_oIeeORWgna6kbpW1...

philwelch• 12 years ago

Soylent isn't "disruptive innovation", it's Ensure for hipsters.

diminoten2• 12 years ago

HN is supposed to represent some of the world's most dynamic, forward-thinkers.

Where in the hell did you get that idea?

chasing2• 12 years ago

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

vtlynch2• 12 years ago

Holy shit you sound despicable.

throwaway124093• 12 years ago

While HN can be negative, it's not primary reason I don't read HN much anymore. It's because (as demonstrated by your comment) people just state opinions without any arguments attached. When people say "X is bad" rather "X is bad for Y reason" it's leaves all the argumentation up to the reader. It's these kind of attacks that make HN emotionally draining.

Someone12347• 12 years ago

Can you describe the taste? Some others have claimed it tasted like "nothingness."

ph0rque2• 12 years ago

I'd describe it as liquified cardboard with a dash of sweetness.

ChikkaChiChi7• 12 years ago

There is something productive about some of the negativity, but ultimately I end up feeling like some sort of fanboy when I start correcting some of the inaccuracies.

We should hold companies to higher standards; they don't pay us to be their PR team. But in the case of some of the negativity regarding Soylent, it feels more like jealously than genuine concern.

ChuckMcM• 12 years ago

It certainly demonstrates that there are customer viewpoints that are not well represented by the commenters here.

The interesting thing for me is that 'eating' (and by commutation 'food') is plugged in so deeply into our psyche that it seems people have opinions on it that they developed very early in life. One of the things I noted at Google was the disproportionate backlash when they cut back on the free food available. It was like someone had instituted daily flogging or something, but it was just food. And yet through out our lives and our history food, sharing a meal, etc, is rooted deeply in our tribal culture. Not something you want to mess with lightly. Its not like Christians re-enact the Last Cocktail Party, rather it is the Last Supper.

Given those deep tendrils into our subconscious I wasn't surprised at the harsh response Soylent received. Nor the continuing resistance. And as someone who likes eating too much, I don't think it would be a good product for me but I certainly see how for some it would be ideal.

That the company has made it this far and their problems are "success" problems (can't ship enough, more demand than product) I expect they will grow into something quite a bit bigger than they are. And I too am glad that someone is thinking about this from the perspective of an 'everyday' kind of thing rather than a 'jaw wired shut so you have to' or 'get your kids some protein before school' sort of way.

jayess3• 12 years ago

I just wish they would do a low-carb version. I tried soylent for a couple of weeks. I then had my annual physical and my blood sugar level was much higher than it had been in the past. So much so that my doctor asked me what I had been doing and what I was eating. He said I was now suddenly "pre-diabetic." I stopped soylent immediately. I really wanted it to be a legitimate meal alternative. I'm disappointed.

As a side note, I now have four boxes of soylent for sale if anyone wants them... :)

lucb1e3• 12 years ago

I have never heard this before. Haven't people tried it for a month with health checks before and after? Couldn't it be anything else (did you run exclusively on Soylent)?

I've been thinking of ordering some for when I don't have time for lunch or don't feel like cooking or something, but this would obviously make it a no-go.

jayess3• 12 years ago

It was not exclusively soylent, I was having it for lunch every day. I was eating well otherwise for dinner. Of course everyone is different and some bodies react differently than others.

Shorel2• 12 years ago

Couldn't it be anything else

What, haven't you see the ingredient list of SoyLent? It's extremely carb loaded.

I've been saying this for months, we need a Ketoylent version.

B5geek• 12 years ago

Send me an email. I'm thinking about taking those off your hands.

o2kewl_at_gmail com

Decade4• 12 years ago

Then there's the community that Chris Dixon mentioned. Soylent may not currently be the best food for everyone (actually, I'm pretty certain it isn't), but it has inspired the DIY community. Personally, I find Aleh's 100%FOOD[1] to be more convenient to use than Soylent, and I've been meaning to try something from axcho's marketplace.[2]

[1] http://www.spacenutrientsstation.com/ [2] http://custombodyfuel.com/

ChikkaChiChi7• 12 years ago

100% food is so much more convenient, but I had to chug it to get it down.

ChikkaChiChi7• 12 years ago

Be sure to let them know. The only way they can address situations like yours is if they are informed.

thatthatis• 12 years ago

http://www.ketosoy.com is an ultra low carb version.

nazgulnarsil• 12 years ago

It's worth noting that the first ingredient, maltodextrin, is only "not a sugar" in the technical sense. Sure, it is a weakly bonded polysaccharide and not a mono or disaccharide (the FDA's definition of what to call sugar on your label), but it is absorbed by the body at the same rate as pure glucose. I think this is pretty deceptive for the non-nutrition geek crowd.

kyleblarson• 12 years ago

People in their 80's have been "hacking eating" for quite some time now. It's called Ensure. I think I know what's next. Depends (adult diapers) for the young tech set so you can just go to the bathroom and not disrupt that epic coding session. Because disrupt.

jasonisalive8• 12 years ago

What if Ensure had a cool name and didn't carry connotations of age and disease? What if it was sexily marketed? What if it was easy to flavour and make delicious? What if you signed up for a subscription and never thought about it again? What if you got it from vending machines that were everywhere you went and recognised you as you approached, having a glass perfectly formulated to your tastes and needs at that precise moment ready? What if it came out of a tap? What if your home 3D printer could form it into a multitude of shapes and textures (bar, cookie, cereal) and it would still be nutritionally balanced? What if it was surrounded by a devoted and inventive community of DIY hackers? What if the creator of Ensure was rapidly iterating it and discussing engineering microbes to produce pure versions of it?

Oh, or is it easier, instead of using your imagination and a bit of enthusiasm, to point to how it's similar to a crappy product that nobody bothered to market, and imply that it won't be sucessful - because we all know the success and impact of a product has nothing to do with the creativity, perserverance and vision of the creators, right?

DanBC5• 12 years ago

Ensure is heavily marketed. It is not irresponsibly marketed. Ensure does not claim to put you in good health. It doesn't claim o be suitable for everyone.

By the way: Ensure is available in unflavoured versions to allow users to add it to other food or add other food to it.

chasing2• 12 years ago

You should check out my new startup, as well:

SoyDent.

We take out all of your teeth and fit you with a removable and easy-to-clean replacement. No more complex brushing and flossing. No more time-consuming trips to the dentist.

FreakyT• 12 years ago

IIRC, the primary issue with Ensure was only that it cost too much per serving to make it viable for eating every day.

ChikkaChiChi7• 12 years ago

I'm not big on the time and commitment it takes to prepare some meals, so I instead opt for the "easy" option of grabbing whatever is in a bag that I can shove in my face hole.

This generally results in me pooping out a product that was subsidized heavily by Big Corn that is not digested, a bunch of preservatives and additives that benefit the storage of, not the digestion of food, and other crap that I'd rather not think about.

Some people just don't think eating is...interesting?

ryanseys• 12 years ago

I hope that, as an international customer, they will expand not only their manufacturing and shipping capabilities in the time-domain but additionally in the location-domain. There are a number of competing products that have come to market since Soylent became huge, and their one advantage over Soylent is they are offering a similar product but will ship nearly world-wide, effectively beating Soylent "by default" which is kind of sad considering these products originate in Europe. This also means potentially setting up manufacturing facilities in other parts of the world so that shipping and customs costs remain low for everyone, regardless of location. I love the idea of Soylent but haven't had the chance to try it out because I live a 1 hour's drive outside the US border in Canada. Congrats to the team on their funding!

thebiglebrewski• 12 years ago

Great time for me to say that I'm selling all of my Soylent! 6 soylent bags, 6 fish oil canister guys and the original pitcher. zachfeldman (at) gmail dot com. Make me an offer!

ChikkaChiChi7• 12 years ago

Soylent is approaching the 'meal replacement' as an outsider to an industry that is rife with subsidization, existing partnerships, preconceived notions, and vast mires of bureaucracy. They are dogfooding their product, iterating based on feedback, publishing their findings and recipes, and still this isn't good enough for the "disruptive" community of HackerNews.

The two biggest competitors in this realm according to these discussions seem to be Ensure, a product from a 127 year old publicly traded company (Abbott) with 90k employees and 40 billion in revenue, and Carnation Instant Breakfast, a product from a Swiss candy company with a laundry list of other products that don't give me a lot of faith that they have my health as their primary interest.

Soylent isn't perfect yet, but neither is our understanding of the human body. I'm glad to see them get infused with more cash that will allow them to add more expertise to their roster and shore up better distribution. I'm more at ease with Soylent and it's backing than I am with the current DIY movement, at least until things settle down.

I'm glad its an option. I'm even more glad that it's fostering the discussion.

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