Best Programming Language for Startups

http://kevindewalt.com/blog/2009/10/14/the-best-programming-language-for-a-lean-startup/

by marcofloriano • 17 years ago

25 31 17 years ago

swombat• 17 years ago

I wasn't so sure, until I reached the end:

Finally, if you still don’t know what language to pick, choose Ruby on Rails because it is the best. If you don’t agree, get ready for a public stoning.

Clearly, some very sound thinking! I like this guy already!

More seriously, the article is spot on. I have one caveat though: don't settle for what you know if you really want to know something else.

For example, if you've been doing PHP programming for years, and know it really well, but are really keen to learn Python and Django, give it a try! My advice would be to try the new language/framework for 2 weeks. It sounds long, but actually 2 weeks is almost nothing.

After those two weeks you might go back to your previous language, satisfied that you know it's the right choice since you've tried the grass on the other side and it didn't taste any better. Or perhaps you'll switch to the new language, safe in the knowledge that yes, it is a lot better and you can probably do a better job in this new language.

terrellm• 17 years ago

I definitely agree with the 2 week challenge.

I developed in ASP.Net on Windows for years but got tired of having to code in Windows and do everything else in OSX. I picked up a copy of Agile Web Development with Rails and gave myself a "2 week challenge". It's been a few months and I haven't looked back. I can't imagine going back to .NET.

jamesbritt2• 17 years ago

"Clearly, some very sound thinking! I like this guy already!"

Because Rails is a programming language?

compay• 17 years ago

Because of sarcasm.

natmaster2• 17 years ago

Although if you're looking to get something done, learning a new language isn't going to help in the short term, there is such thing as a better language. PHP sucks. As a language, it's hackish, and not really designed at all. So unless you need to integrate with existing tools, it would probably be best to stay away from a language that will attract meto developers.

For more evidence: http://www.google.com/search?q=php+sucks&ie=utf-8&oe...

idlewords• 17 years ago

The reason there are a ton of "php sucks" posts is that tons of people use PHP. The reason tons of people use PHP is that sometimes it's the best tool for the job. Engaging in 'language X sucks' debate is a waste of time better spent designing an innovative product.

aaronblohowiak2• 17 years ago

As Bjarne has said: "There are two types of languages, those people complain about, and those that nobody uses."

Daishiman2• 17 years ago

I disagree. PHP is objectively worse than Ruby, Python or Perl in practically every regard with the exception of ease of deployment. A language that loses source compatibility in point releases, has no consistent syntax or conventions, crappy toolset, half-assed object orientation and worthless functional aspects, is neither expressive nor terse... I could go on and on.

I have yet to see a fraemwork built on PHP that can match Django or ROR in terms of features or ease of use, starting from the fact that the language makes development of adequate template parsers or ORMs much more difficult given the lack of metaprogramming facilities. Oh, and while having fewer features it's also slower than the other language's reference implementations.

The only advantage PHP has is the preponderance of available developers and libraries (and those libraries allow to shoot yourself in the foot much more easily than the alternative languages by virtue of being just plain worse. Wake me up when there's something comparable to SQLAlquemy or Beautiful Soup on PHP). They're actually very significant advantages, but speak more about its legacy and inertia rather than any technical advantages.

natmaster2• 17 years ago

In the end, a programming language is a tool to get things done. And while many tools are designed to solve different problems. Some tools http://www.flickr.com/photos/kjmeow/3078861757/ ARE just better than others http://www.flickr.com/photos/salyangoz/3466877208/ for getting the job done.

toddmck• 17 years ago

I'm thoroughly amused that the first tool link is a picture of someone using a hammer to pound on a screw. The photographer even says in the flickr comments that he's thinking about titling the picture "What happen when you use a wrong tool...".

This in no way diminishes your point, which I think is quite valid. I just found myself laughing out loud so it seemed worth sharing.

clutchski2• 17 years ago

"Finally, if you still don’t know what language to pick, choose Ruby on Rails because it is the best"

um. ruby on rails != language.

tomjen2• 17 years ago

No, not really but given the amount of meta programming DDH made to make ROR possible, I am not so sure.

megaduck• 17 years ago

I'd argue that Rails' use of DSLs and metaprogramming makes it materially different from straight ruby. It gets even more confusing with lisp where your libraries are, by definition, language extensions. Often with completely custom syntax.

It's kind of an irrelevant distinction anyways. People don't really pick "languages", per se. They usually pick "language + libraries", and the line between third-party libraries and standard libraries is getting increasingly blurred.

aaronblohowiak2• 17 years ago

They do pick the initial "technology stack", a term which concisely encapsulates both the distinction and interconnection of the parts.

clutchski2• 17 years ago

sure. just wanted to note the author's belief that rails is a language undermines his credibility.

raganwald2• 17 years ago

ROR is absolutely a language. A language built on top of Ruby, of course, but a language.

bradfordw• 17 years ago

I like Ruby and Rails for that matter, or rather where Rails 3 is headed. But this has flame bait written all over it. It's a matter of choosing the right tool for the job, plain and simple.

mechanical_fish• 17 years ago

I'm beginning to fear that HTML5 really needs to have a spec for the SATIRE tag.

raganwald2• 17 years ago

It's a matter of choosing choosing the right tool for the job, plain and simple

I have a lot of trouble with this statement. It is a tautology, it is necessarily true. Now that we both agree, what is the best tool for the job and how do we choose it? The OP gives the author's perspective. If you don't agree, perhaps you could share yours.

sofal• 17 years ago

There seem to be a lot of people who think that arguments about what language to use are 100% fluff and that they can all be neatly settled by the cute "right tool for the job" platitude. The truth is that sometimes we're just not sure what the right tool for the job is and we might do ourselves a favor by being open to different arguments for different tools.

fjabre• 17 years ago

I'm not big on Rails.. but this list is somewhat impressive:

http://rails100.pbworks.com/Alexa+Rankings

edw519• 17 years ago

By definition you are trying to solve something where both the problem and the solution unknown so you don’t know what you need.

And what definition would that be? Could someone please enlighten me because I have no idea where this comes from.

If the problem is unknown, then what are you working on?

If the solution is unknown, then figure it out (at least conceptually) before you start coding.

Am I missing something? This makes no sense to me.

gwern2• 17 years ago

Then that's your problem, if you can't understand it. A man is unhappy: he knows not why he is unhappy, what problem he has, nor how to solve it. Is it nonsense to say he is unhappy? A species is wandering around configuration-space; it knows not what the current fitness function is, nor what mutations would solve it best. Is it nonsense to say that the species will do better or worse?

daniel-cussen• 17 years ago

What do you use?

jksmith• 17 years ago

Of course he forgot to mention what is currently the trendiest language to use, which is the one I'm writing. I haven't had this much fun with a computer since dos days.

hyperbovine• 17 years ago

You're a startup. You have neither the time nor money to do it all yourself, and if you're not first to market it's curtains. The best language for your startup is the one that has the most people kicking out free, modular code that you can pull off the shelf and use. This would seem to be Ruby for the time being, but the main point is you need to pick up the fad du jour and run with it.

Best Programming Language for Startups

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